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Home > Archive > Home Repair forum > August 2007 > Is Acetone Save For Vinyl Windows?
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Is Acetone Save For Vinyl Windows?
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| DerbyDad03 2007-08-26, 8:25 pm |
| I'm going to be replacing my windows soon. I plan to use minimal
expanding foam to fill the gaps.
The Great Stuff for windows (blue can, "Will not bow frames") says
uncured foam can be removed with acetone. Can I assume that the
acetone will not harm the vinyl?
I've been practicing trying to neatly fill a 1/8" gap with the
supplied straw and it's pretty tough, even after pinching the straw so
it will fit into the gap.
Do I need to put foam in a 1/8" (or smaller) gap?
(This is the side gap I expect since I'm told my windows will be 1/4"
narrower than the rough opening.)
Thanks!
| |
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| On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 17:46:06 -0700, DerbyDad03 <teamarrows@eznet.net>
wrote:
>I'm going to be replacing my windows soon. I plan to use minimal
>expanding foam to fill the gaps.
>
>The Great Stuff for windows (blue can, "Will not bow frames") says
>uncured foam can be removed with acetone. Can I assume that the
>acetone will not harm the vinyl?
No! It (Acetone) can harm it. IMO! A wet finger tip on a cotton rag
piece may get by, but don't press your luck on vinyl. Lightly use
acetone in this case.
>
>I've been practicing trying to neatly fill a 1/8" gap with the
>supplied straw and it's pretty tough, even after pinching the straw so
>it will fit into the gap.
>
>Do I need to put foam in a 1/8" (or smaller) gap?
>
>(This is the side gap I expect since I'm told my windows will be 1/4"
>narrower than the rough opening.)
>
>Thanks!
--
Oren
"I didn’t say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you."
| |
| willshak 2007-08-26, 8:25 pm |
| on 8/26/2007 8:46 PM DerbyDad03 said the following:
> I'm going to be replacing my windows soon. I plan to use minimal
> expanding foam to fill the gaps.
>
> The Great Stuff for windows (blue can, "Will not bow frames") says
> uncured foam can be removed with acetone. Can I assume that the
> acetone will not harm the vinyl?
>
> I've been practicing trying to neatly fill a 1/8" gap with the
> supplied straw and it's pretty tough, even after pinching the straw so
> it will fit into the gap.
>
> Do I need to put foam in a 1/8" (or smaller) gap?
>
> (This is the side gap I expect since I'm told my windows will be 1/4"
> narrower than the rough opening.)
>
> Thanks!
>
>
In my short career as a house builder, all the gaps between rough
opening framing and the window or door framing was done with pieces of
glass wool insulation stuffed in with a putty knife. It is not the
material that provides insulation, but the air trapped within it.
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @
| |
| DerbyDad03 2007-08-26, 9:25 pm |
| On Aug 26, 9:17 pm, willshak <wills...@00hvc.rr.com> wrote:
> on 8/26/2007 8:46 PM DerbyDad03 said the following:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In my short career as a house builder, all the gaps between rough
> opening framing and the window or door framing was done with pieces of
> glass wool insulation stuffed in with a putty knife. It is not the
> material that provides insulation, but the air trapped within it.
>
> --
>
> Bill
> In Hamptonburgh, NY
> To email, remove the double zeroes after @- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Bill:
According to this thread, foam is much better than fiberglass when
replacing windows. (It's kind of a double-topic thread, but the foam
discussion is in there.)
http://www.vinyl-replacement-window...&highlight=foam
That's why I was experimenting with the Great Stuff. I can do a 1/4"
gap pretty well, but the 1/8" gaps are pretty tough.
(BTW - I asked my question at that site also, but getting a response
is hit or miss. Some questions get answered within minutes, some go
days without being touched.)
| |
|
|
> I'm going to be replacing my windows soon. I plan to use minimal
> expanding foam to fill the gaps.
>
> The Great Stuff for windows (blue can, "Will not bow frames") says
> uncured foam can be removed with acetone. Can I assume that the
> acetone will not harm the vinyl?
Acetone CAN dissolve many plastics. I wouldnt use it. I have "lacquer
thinner" in my garage and generally use that for such jobs..it also will
affect some plastics.
>
> I've been practicing trying to neatly fill a 1/8" gap with the
> supplied straw and it's pretty tough, even after pinching the straw so
> it will fit into the gap.
Instead of the "Great Stuff" YELLO expanding (horribly sticky/messy) foam,
for this 1/8" narrow application, I used a WHITE latex foam (Brand is DAP I
think) in a can and it wiped off easily with a rag.
>
> Do I need to put foam in a 1/8" (or smaller) gap?
Yes, you should...seal ALL gaps
| |
| Warren Block 2007-08-26, 9:25 pm |
| DerbyDad03 <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote:
> I'm going to be replacing my windows soon. I plan to use minimal
> expanding foam to fill the gaps.
>
> The Great Stuff for windows (blue can, "Will not bow frames") says
> uncured foam can be removed with acetone. Can I assume that the
> acetone will not harm the vinyl?
I wouldn't. Instead, I'd suggest the DAP latex-based expanding foam.
It cleans up with water.
If you insist on using the sticky Great Stuff (wear gloves), remove the
extra after it's dry. The limited-expansion stuff sets soft and you can
just tear it off with your fingers or cut it with a utility knife.
> Do I need to put foam in a 1/8" (or smaller) gap?
Absolutely. It might work to tape a smaller tube to the main tube,
something small enough to fit in the gap.
--
Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota * USA
| |
| DerbyDad03 2007-08-27, 3:25 am |
| On Aug 26, 10:22 pm, Warren Block <wbl...@wonkity.com> wrote:
> DerbyDad03 <teamarr...@eznet.net> wrote:
>
>
> I wouldn't. Instead, I'd suggest the DAP latex-based expanding foam.
> It cleans up with water.
>
> If you insist on using the sticky Great Stuff (wear gloves), remove the
> extra after it's dry. The limited-expansion stuff sets soft and you can
> just tear it off with your fingers or cut it with a utility knife.
>
>
> Absolutely. It might work to tape a smaller tube to the main tube,
> something small enough to fit in the gap.
>
> --
> Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota * USA
- If you insist on using the sticky Great Stuff (wear gloves), remove
the
- extra after it's dry. The limited-expansion stuff sets soft and you
can
- just tear it off with your fingers or cut it with a utility knife.
OK, I'm a little confused, and I hope a call to DOW will clear it up.
I'll let you know what they say. For now, here's my confusion...
The can of Great Stuff Window and Door (the one that claims it bonds
to vinyl, wood and metal surfaces) says:
"Clean Up - Solid Surfaces: Uncured foam dissolves with acetone. For
skin and solid surfaces, cured foam must be mechanically removed or
allowed to wear off in time."
Now, I assume that while trying to fill a 1/8" gap, I'm going to get
some on the face of the vinyl window. The can says I can clean it up
with acetone, but you folks say that the acetone will damage the
vinyl. Would DOW really offer clean-up instructions that might damage
the very surfaces they say to use it on?
On the other hand, how would I ''mechanically" remove the cured foam
from the vinyl with out damaging the surface? Will it just roll up
like rubber cement and peel off? It certainly doesn't just peel off
the wood on the practice jigs I made. Yes, I can cut the big lumps off
with a knife, but I doubt I want to use any tools to scrape it off the
vinyl.
It's interesting that none of the videos at dowgreatstuff.com show it
being used on vinyl windows or in gaps as small as I expect to have.
It's time for a call to 1-800-800-FOAM.
Stay tuned!
| |
| Al Bundy 2007-08-27, 3:25 am |
| willshak <willshak@00hvc.rr.com> wrote in
news:13d49gvs3vjav4e@news.supernews.com:
> on 8/26/2007 8:46 PM DerbyDad03 said the following:
> In my short career as a house builder, all the gaps between rough
> opening framing and the window or door framing was done with pieces of
> glass wool insulation stuffed in with a putty knife. It is not the
> material that provides insulation, but the air trapped within it.
>
> ...stuffed in with a putty knife.
> ...but the air trapped within it.
I would never disagree the trapped air is the insulator. But I really
have often wondered when the gap is so small and they are forced to
"stuff" it in what good is it?!
I just installed two Anderson windows in the very-northeast. See what
happens this winter.
On the sides and head I filled the gaps with low expanding foam.
Anderson's installation instructions gave this as an option. In the sill
I sealed with a bead of foam way in where the sill meets the RO then used
fiberglass to fill the large void. I figured the bead would eliminate any
air infiltration from minute openings and the glass would give it some R
value since it could easily be packed loosely. All the fins on the
outside were siliconed to the sheathing and covered with flashing tape.
If they are drafty or leak, I dunno what else I could have done.
Al Bundy,
Professional (wanna-be)
| |
| Al Bundy 2007-08-27, 3:25 am |
| DerbyDad03 <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote in news:1188175566.756225.183080
@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:
> I'm going to be replacing my windows soon. I plan to use minimal
> expanding foam to fill the gaps.
>
> The Great Stuff for windows (blue can, "Will not bow frames") says
> uncured foam can be removed with acetone. Can I assume that the
> acetone will not harm the vinyl?
>
> I've been practicing trying to neatly fill a 1/8" gap with the
> supplied straw and it's pretty tough, even after pinching the straw so
> it will fit into the gap.
>
> Do I need to put foam in a 1/8" (or smaller) gap?
>
> (This is the side gap I expect since I'm told my windows will be 1/4"
> narrower than the rough opening.)
>
> Thanks!
>
>
Call it amateur but I just ran tape on the sides (drywall and jamb) of
the gap knowing how messy that crap can be. Next day just pull the tape
and whack off whatever protruded with a razor.
Maybe pros can't afford to spend the time to do that (or because they are
pros they don't have to do it) but the bottom line is I got a clean flush
surface from the jamb to the drywall.
| |
| Richard J Kinch 2007-08-27, 9:25 am |
| DerbyDad03 writes:
> Can I assume that the acetone will not harm the vinyl?
Use naphtha. Disguised as Coleman fuel. Won't hurt plastics, and decent
performance on polyurethane foams, glues, and caulks.
| |
| DerbyDad03 2007-08-27, 9:25 am |
| On 27 Aug, 00:13, Al Bundy <postmas...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> DerbyDad03 <teamarr...@eznet.net> wrote in news:1188175566.756225.183080
> @r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Call it amateur but I just ran tape on the sides (drywall and jamb) of
> the gap knowing how messy that crap can be. Next day just pull the tape
> and whack off whatever protruded with a razor.
>
> Maybe pros can't afford to spend the time to do that (or because they are
> pros they don't have to do it) but the bottom line is I got a clean flush
> surface from the jamb to the drywall.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
- I just ran tape on the sides (drywall and jamb) of the gap
I actually tried that on one of my practice jigs and it worked just
like you said. Depending on what DOW tells me about the acetone when I
call, I may go with the tape method. Like you said, I've got a lot
more time to do this job than the pros would.
| |
| DerbyDad03 2007-08-27, 9:25 am |
| On 27 Aug, 08:30, DerbyDad03 <teamarr...@eznet.net> wrote:
> On 27 Aug, 00:13, Al Bundy <postmas...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - I just ran tape on the sides (drywall and jamb) of the gap
>
> I actually tried that on one of my practice jigs and it worked just
> like you said. Depending on what DOW tells me about the acetone when I
> call, I may go with the tape method. Like you said, I've got a lot
> more time to do this job than the pros would.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I called DOW this morning and asked them if the acetone they recommend
for cleaning uncured Great Stuff foam will damage a vinyl window.
DOW's answer: "It's highly unlikely that the acetone will damage the
vinyl, but you should check with your window manufacturer since they
are responsible for the warranty on your wndows."
I called Simonton and asked them the same question. The first level
CSR went off to check with someone else and came back with "The
acetone will not damage the vinyl."
I'm going to email them with the same question to see if they will put
that in writing.
| |
| tnom@mucks.net 2007-08-27, 9:25 am |
|
>The Great Stuff for windows (blue can, "Will not bow frames") says
>uncured foam can be removed with acetone. Can I assume that the
>acetone will not harm the vinyl?
No! Acetone should not be used on vinyl.
| |
| tnom@mucks.net 2007-08-27, 9:25 am |
|
>I called DOW this morning and asked them if the acetone they recommend
>for cleaning uncured Great Stuff foam will damage a vinyl window.
>
>DOW's answer: "It's highly unlikely that the acetone will damage the
>vinyl, but you should check with your window manufacturer since they
>are responsible for the warranty on your wndows."
>
>I called Simonton and asked them the same question. The first level
>CSR went off to check with someone else and came back with "The
>acetone will not damage the vinyl."
>
>I'm going to email them with the same question to see if they will put
>that in writing.
They are wrong. Acetone may initially not show harm but over time will
soften and warp the vinyl.
| |
|
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| DerbyDad03 2007-08-27, 1:25 pm |
| On 27 Aug, 10:21, t...@mucks.net wrote:
> Vinyl is PVC
>
> Check the compatibility here:
>
- http://www.coleparmer.com/techinfo/chemcomp.asp
Man, it doesn't get more confusing than this, does it?
Faced with the info from that site, how the heck could both DOW and
Simonton tell me it's safe to use acetone on vinyl windows?
arrrrggghhhh!
| |
|
| On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 07:52:41 -0700, DerbyDad03 <teamarrows@eznet.net>
wrote:
>On 27 Aug, 10:21, t...@mucks.net wrote:
>- http://www.coleparmer.com/techinfo/chemcomp.asp
>
>Man, it doesn't get more confusing than this, does it?
>
>Faced with the info from that site, how the heck could both DOW and
>Simonton tell me it's safe to use acetone on vinyl windows?
>
>arrrrggghhhh!
It might have something too do with selling a product!
Based on the above comparability link, beer will not harm the vinyl 
--
Oren
"I didn’t say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you."
| |
|
|
> Faced with the info from that site, how the heck could both DOW and
> Simonton tell me it's safe to use acetone on vinyl windows?
STOP the insanity !!! USE the DAP white stuff and wipe it off with a damp
rag
| |
|
| By the way if you go to Lowes or a Pella window store they sell great tape
for flashing during installation. Sticky as heck on one side and foil on
the other.
"DerbyDad03" <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote in message
news:1188175566.756225.183080@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> I'm going to be replacing my windows soon. I plan to use minimal
> expanding foam to fill the gaps.
>
> The Great Stuff for windows (blue can, "Will not bow frames") says
> uncured foam can be removed with acetone. Can I assume that the
> acetone will not harm the vinyl?
>
> I've been practicing trying to neatly fill a 1/8" gap with the
> supplied straw and it's pretty tough, even after pinching the straw so
> it will fit into the gap.
>
> Do I need to put foam in a 1/8" (or smaller) gap?
>
> (This is the side gap I expect since I'm told my windows will be 1/4"
> narrower than the rough opening.)
>
> Thanks!
>
| |
| DerbyDad03 2007-08-28, 5:25 pm |
| On Aug 27, 10:21 am, t...@mucks.net wrote:
> Vinyl is PVC
>
> Check the compatibility here:
>
> http://www.coleparmer.com/techinfo/chemcomp.asp
Here's the response from Simonton customer service regarding using
foam and acetone on their windows.
"We do not suggest using a foam insulation with our windows. Acetone
will not damage the vinyl of the windows."
Of course, if I'm not using foam, I won't be using acetone!
| |
| DerbyDad03 2007-08-28, 8:25 pm |
| On Aug 27, 6:40 pm, Oren <O...@home.yes.us> wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 07:52:41 -0700, DerbyDad03 <teamarr...@eznet.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It might have something too do with selling a product!
>
> Based on the above comparability link, beer will not harm the vinyl
>
> --
> Oren
>
> "I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you."
- It might have something too do with selling a product!
Simonton sells windows. I doubt they would say acetone is safe just to
sell a window.
DOW, on the other hand, *is* selling a product that might require the
use of acetone and might stretch the truth.
BTW - Even though Simonton doesn't suggest using foam with their
windows, they did say - in writing via email - that acetone will not
damage the vinyl.
| |
| Mike Dobony 2007-08-31, 3:25 am |
|
"DerbyDad03" <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote in message
news:1188185637.237741.137930@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 26, 10:22 pm, Warren Block <wbl...@wonkity.com> wrote:
>
> - If you insist on using the sticky Great Stuff (wear gloves), remove
> the
> - extra after it's dry. The limited-expansion stuff sets soft and you
> can
> - just tear it off with your fingers or cut it with a utility knife.
>
> OK, I'm a little confused, and I hope a call to DOW will clear it up.
> I'll let you know what they say. For now, here's my confusion...
>
> The can of Great Stuff Window and Door (the one that claims it bonds
> to vinyl, wood and metal surfaces) says:
>
> "Clean Up - Solid Surfaces: Uncured foam dissolves with acetone. For
> skin and solid surfaces, cured foam must be mechanically removed or
> allowed to wear off in time."
>
> Now, I assume that while trying to fill a 1/8" gap, I'm going to get
> some on the face of the vinyl window. The can says I can clean it up
> with acetone, but you folks say that the acetone will damage the
> vinyl. Would DOW really offer clean-up instructions that might damage
> the very surfaces they say to use it on?
>
> On the other hand, how would I ''mechanically" remove the cured foam
> from the vinyl with out damaging the surface?
Xacto knife.
>Will it just roll up
> like rubber cement and peel off? It certainly doesn't just peel off
> the wood on the practice jigs I made. Yes, I can cut the big lumps off
> with a knife, but I doubt I want to use any tools to scrape it off the
> vinyl.
>
If they are talking about the stuff I have seen, it will not take too much
to cut it off and pull the stuff off the window. It is MUCH better than the
Great Stuff as it is MUCH more flexible. Remember, it expands, so use it
sparingly. It will go a long way.
> It's interesting that none of the videos at dowgreatstuff.com show it
> being used on vinyl windows or in gaps as small as I expect to have.
> It's time for a call to 1-800-800-FOAM.
>
> Stay tuned!
>
>
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