| Author |
Spray water on compressor to raise efficiency?
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| BoyntonStu 2007-09-26, 8:25 pm |
| Large buildings use water to remove the heat from theur ac condensers.
What about a recirculating fountain to spay the coils in my ac
condenser for 90+ temp days.
How much 'gain' in efficiency would result?
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| Caesar Romano 2007-09-26, 8:25 pm |
| On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:13:24 -0700, BoyntonStu <stu@aaronj.com> wrote
Re Spray water on compressor to raise efficiency?:
>Large buildings use water to remove the heat from theur ac condensers.
>
>What about a recirculating fountain to spay the coils in my ac
>condenser for 90+ temp days.
>
>How much 'gain' in efficiency would result?
Well, assuming the water is about 70F, you would gain a considerable
increase in efficiency. But then, you would probably ruin you
condensers with corrosion and fouling.
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| BoyntonStu wrote:
> Large buildings use water to remove the heat from theur ac condensers.
>
> What about a recirculating fountain to spay the coils in my ac
> condenser for 90+ temp days.
>
> How much 'gain' in efficiency would result?
Negitive gain as your unit isn't setup to take the water and the fins would
corrode and then you need a new unit costing more than you saved.
Rich
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| In article <46fb008a$0$6071$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com>,
madeyoulook@dot.com says...
> BoyntonStu wrote:
>
> Negitive gain as your unit isn't setup to take the water and the fins would
> corrode and then you need a new unit costing more than you saved.
If they're designed to sit out in the rain all winter, would occasional
water in the summer really be that damaging? (Suppose it depends on how
corrosive the city water supply is....)
--
josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html>
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| Telstra 2007-09-26, 9:25 pm |
| The temperature difference between the condenser coil
and the air is the point of balance where all of the heat in
the gas is rejected and the gas condenses into a liquid
At this point of balance the pressure becomes constant
at the condensing pressure.
The difference in Evaporating and condensing pressure is
then used to force the liquid refrigerant through the
refrigerant control. If this pressure is reduced then flow is
reduced and the evaporator can starve.
"BoyntonStu" <stu@aaronj.com> wrote in message
news:1190852004.268607.264790@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> Large buildings use water to remove the heat from theur ac condensers.
>
> What about a recirculating fountain to spay the coils in my ac
> condenser for 90+ temp days.
>
> How much 'gain' in efficiency would result?
>
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| Edwin Pawlowski 2007-09-26, 9:25 pm |
|
<josh@phred.org> wrote in message
>
> If they're designed to sit out in the rain all winter, would occasional
> water in the summer really be that damaging? (Suppose it depends on how
> corrosive the city water supply is....)
Rain water, although not pure, does not contain the minerals that tap water
usually does. You can get quite a buildup of crud on the coils if you
spray.
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| Telstra 2007-09-27, 3:25 am |
| The reason for the compromises which cause
manufacturers to choose air cooled condensers
are easily understood.
For example spraying a 100 ml mist of water
per second equals 360 Liters per hour or app
3.6 tons of water per 10 hr day.
Which in one year of 300 days equals 1000 tons
if this is multiplied by 100 million consumers then
then the loss is one hundred billion tons of clean
water.per year.
That would make the price of bread even more
fucking outrageous than it is. So the next time you
enjoy a couple of slices of toast you should think
about that.
<ds549@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:15572-46FB0A0C-86@storefull-3257.bay.webtv.net...
> in grocery store we put in misters on our condensers,cut elec bill
> in half.had to clean coils twice a tear with lime remover.lucas
>
> http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm
>
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| BoyntonStu 2007-09-27, 3:25 am |
| On Sep 26, 10:46 pm, "Telstra" <tfwil...@paradise.net.nz> wrote:[color=darkred]
> The reason for the compromises which cause
> manufacturers to choose air cooled condensers
> are easily understood.
> For example spraying a 100 ml mist of water
> per second equals 360 Liters per hour or app
> 3.6 tons of water per 10 hr day.
> Which in one year of 300 days equals 1000 tons
> if this is multiplied by 100 million consumers then
> then the loss is one hundred billion tons of clean
> water.per year.
> That would make the price of bread even more
> fucking outrageous than it is. So the next time you
> enjoy a couple of slices of toast you should think
> about that.
>
> <ds...@webtv.net> wrote in message
>
> news:15572-46FB0A0C-86@storefull-3257.bay.webtv.net...
>
>
How about a recirculating system that uses the same water (+ makeup
for evaporation) over and over again.
The water would be sprayed on the coils, collected, pumped a few feet
into the 70* ground to cool, and sprayed again.
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| Tony Hwang 2007-09-27, 3:25 am |
| ds549@webtv.net wrote:
> in grocery store we put in misters on our condensers,cut elec bill
> in half.had to clean coils twice a tear with lime remover.lucas
>
> http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm
>
Hmmm,
It'd be OK if distilled water is used?
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| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2007-09-27, 9:25 am |
| "BoyntonStu" <stu@aaronj.com> wrote
> What about a recirculating fountain to spay the coils in my ac
> condenser for 90+ temp days.
I pumped rainwater water up from a plastic 55 gallon drum through
a horizontal tube with some holes over the coil of a window AC.
> How much 'gain' in efficiency would result?
.... 20% in my experiments and 22% in Y. Goswami's U. Florida central air
experiments. He built a swamp cooler around the AC coil, so the water
never touched it. I avoided mineral buildup by using rainwater, with
a $10 10 W fountain pump in a plastic 55 gallon drum below the AC.
Limestone in the drum helps avoid acid rain problems.
Nick
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| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2007-09-27, 9:25 am |
| Telstra <tfwilson@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>... spraying a 100 ml mist of water per second
>equals 360 Liters per hour
Evaporating that water takes 360x2.2x1000 = 792K Btu/h, like 158 5K Btu/h
window ACs :-) Or more, if the water does not provide all the cooling :-)
Nick
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| BoyntonStu 2007-09-27, 9:25 am |
| On Sep 27, 4:55 am, nicksans...@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
> "BoyntonStu" <s...@aaronj.com> wrote
>
>
> I pumped rainwater water up from a plastic 55 gallon drum through
> a horizontal tube with some holes over the coil of a window AC.
>
>
> ... 20% in my experiments and 22% in Y. Goswami's U. Florida central air
> experiments. He built a swamp cooler around the AC coil, so the water
> never touched it. I avoided mineral buildup by using rainwater, with
> a $10 10 W fountain pump in a plastic 55 gallon drum below the AC.
> Limestone in the drum helps avoid acid rain problems.
>
> Nick
Some thoughts.
The average house unit in Florida is several tins ad it produces about
1 gallon of cool condensed water per day HMMM?
Some details please on the swamp cooler design.
Would this idea work?
Sink a 55 gallon drum into the 70* ground to cool the water and to
hide it.
Pipe all condensate into the drum.
Swamp cooler surrounding the condenser.
BoyntonStu
I have a duplex on an island.
The utilities last month were almost $700.
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| On Sep 27, 7:41 am, BoyntonStu <s...@aaronj.com> wrote:
> On Sep 27, 4:55 am, nicksans...@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Some thoughts.
>
> The average house unit in Florida is several tins ad it produces about
> 1 gallon of cool condensed water per day HMMM?
>
> Some details please on the swamp cooler design.
>
> Would this idea work?
>
> Sink a 55 gallon drum into the 70* ground to cool the water and to
> hide it.
>
> Pipe all condensate into the drum.
>
> Swamp cooler surrounding the condenser.
>
> BoyntonStu
>
> I have a duplex on an island.
>
> The utilities last month were almost $700.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
The savings won,t equal the added bother.
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| Uncle Monster 2007-09-27, 1:26 pm |
| On Sep 26, 7:13 pm, BoyntonStu <s...@aaronj.com> wrote:
> Large buildings use water to remove the heat from theur ac condensers.
>
> What about a recirculating fountain to spay the coils in my ac
> condenser for 90+ temp days.
>
> How much 'gain' in efficiency would result?
The problem is corrosion and scale buildup.
What I would do if I had a big yard would be
to use a trenching machine and bury some
3/4" polyethylene line and use the ground as
a supplementary heat sink. A flat plate heat
exchanger and glycol solution incorperated
into the AC/heat pump system would add a
lot of efficiency. Here are a few links to give
you an idea of what I'm referring to:
http://www.geokiss.com/res-design/GSHPDesignRec2.pdf
http://www.flatplate.com/?gclid=CKa...CFRVKUAodpzG4WQ
[8~{} Uncle Monster
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| Edwin Pawlowski 2007-09-27, 1:26 pm |
|
"Tony Hwang" <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:XRFKi.1444$x%6.1103@pd7urf2no...
> ds549@webtv.net wrote:
> Hmmm,
> It'd be OK if distilled water is used?
Should be. That is similar to how the window units work with a slinger ring
to get rid of condensate.
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| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2007-09-27, 1:26 pm |
| BoyntonStu <s...@aaronj.com> wrote:
>The average house unit in Florida is several tins ad it produces about
>1 gallon of cool condensed water per day HMMM?
Tins? :-)
>Some details please on the swamp cooler design.
Goswami used an Acme Kool Cell greenhouse evaporative cooler kit. Swamp
Thing is another brand. Stuppy Greenhouse Manufacturing sells a 10' length
of Swamp Thing pads and gutters and overhead sprinklers for $181.
Goswami cut one down to make something like a 2.5' cube surrounding
an outdoor condensing unit. You also need something like Stuppy's $268
"Plumbing completion package" which has a float valve and an adjustable
bleedoff valve (nominally 1%) to avoid mineral buildup. The idea is
to surround the condensing coil with a swamp cooler box.
>Would this idea work?
>
>Sink a 55 gallon drum into the 70* ground to cool the water and to hide it.
The ground won't help much in cooling it.
>Pipe all condensate into the drum.
Sounds good.
>Swamp cooler surrounding the condenser.
You might just trickle the mineral-free condensate and rainwater
over the coil, with no swamp cooler.
>The utilities last month were almost $700.
jim <woodenhead@shaw.ca>
>The savings won,t equal the added bother.
.... 0.2x700 = $140 per month? :-)
Nick
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| willshak 2007-09-27, 1:26 pm |
| on 9/26/2007 10:57 PM BoyntonStu said the following:
> On Sep 26, 10:46 pm, "Telstra" <tfwil...@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>
>
> How about a recirculating system that uses the same water (+ makeup
> for evaporation) over and over again.
>
>
> The water would be sprayed on the coils, collected, pumped a few feet
> into the 70* ground to cool, and sprayed again.
>
Go down 5' and get 55º.
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @
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| Joseph Meehan 2007-09-27, 1:26 pm |
|
"BoyntonStu" <stu@aaronj.com> wrote in message
news:1190852004.268607.264790@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> Large buildings use water to remove the heat from theur ac condensers.
>
> What about a recirculating fountain to spay the coils in my ac
> condenser for 90+ temp days.
>
> How much 'gain' in efficiency would result?
>
There have been a number of commercial kits to do this. The problem is,
even with soft water, they scale up the evaporators fast and that reduces
the efficiency. Don't bother.
--
Joseph Meehan
Dia 's Muire duit
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| BoyntonStu 2007-09-27, 1:26 pm |
| On Sep 27, 12:49 pm, "Joseph Meehan" <sligoNoSPAM...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> "BoyntonStu" <s...@aaronj.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1190852004.268607.264790@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
> There have been a number of commercial kits to do this. The problem is,
> even with soft water, they scale up the evaporators fast and that reduces
> the efficiency. Don't bother.
>
> --
> Joseph Meehan
>
> Dia 's Muire duit
A real hack would be to cut the condenser apart, and place the coils
in a 'bathtub' in the ground, etc
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| willshak 2007-09-27, 1:26 pm |
| on 9/27/2007 1:35 PM BoyntonStu said the following:
> On Sep 27, 12:49 pm, "Joseph Meehan" <sligoNoSPAM...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> A real hack would be to cut the condenser apart, and place the coils
> in a 'bathtub' in the ground, etc
>
>
How about running an AC duct from the AC to the condenser? :-)
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @
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"BoyntonStu" <stu@aaronj.com> wrote in message
news:1190861858.491710.78160@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 26, 10:46 pm, "Telstra" <tfwil...@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>
> How about a recirculating system that uses the same water (+ makeup
> for evaporation) over and over again.
>
>
> The water would be sprayed on the coils, collected, pumped a few feet
> into the 70* ground to cool, and sprayed again.
>
Or, put underground coils carrying fluid into a heat exchanger and have a
"geothermal heat pump/AC".
Bob
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| BoyntonStu 2007-09-29, 9:25 am |
| On Sep 29, 1:08 am, "Bob F" <bobnos...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "BoyntonStu" <s...@aaronj.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1190861858.491710.78160@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Or, put underground coils carrying fluid into a heat exchanger and have a
> "geothermal heat pump/AC".
>
> Bob
First, I re-learned today (I forgot) that window AC units spray the
condensate on the coils.
Condensate spray on the coils is old-hat.
Another way is to pipe the freon underground and do away with the
water to water heat exchanger.
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