Home Repair forum - Light cove

Author

Light cove

MiamiCuse

2008-01-27, 3:25 am

I am toying with the idea of building a light cove around the entire living
room (about 28'x22') then use recessed lights and other lights towards the
middle.

My idea is to attach a 2x6 horizontally to the concrete block wall, which
will make a "shelf" about 6" wide. I will route the top side on the outside
to put a small notch in which I will insert a thin strip of frosted glass or
fiber glass about 3 to 4" tall so this will form the "lip" of the shelf.

Inside the shelf I will put 48" long florescent light fixture and chain them
up all around.

This seems simple to do I just need some suggestion on how I would secure
the 2x6 sideways to the concrete block wall. I don't want to use any
visible braces. Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance,

MC

nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

2008-01-27, 9:25 am

MiamiCuse <nmbexcuse@hotmail.com> wrote:

>My idea is to attach a 2x6 horizontally to the concrete block wall, which
>will make a "shelf" about 6" wide. I will route the top side on the outside
>to put a small notch in which I will insert a thin strip of frosted glass or
>fiber glass about 3 to 4" tall so this will form the "lip" of the shelf.
>
>Inside the shelf I will put 48" long florescent light fixture and chain them
>up all around.

You might not need the glass if you attach the fixtures to the wall or put
them on the shelf near the wall so you can't see the tubes from the other
side of the room. If the top of the tube is 3" above the shelf and 2" from
the wall, how wide must the shelf be to make the tube invisible to someone
6' tall and 28' away?

>This seems simple to do I just need some suggestion on how I would secure
>the 2x6 sideways to the concrete block wall. I don't want to use any
>visible braces. Any thoughts?

Corner brackets above the shelves or blue screws in deep countersinks?

Nick

ransley

2008-01-27, 1:25 pm

On Jan 26, 9:34=A0pm, "MiamiCuse" <nmbexc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I am toying with the idea of building a light cove around the entire livin=
g
> room (about 28'x22') then use recessed lights and other lights towards the=

> middle.
>
> My idea is to attach a 2x6 horizontally to the concrete block wall, which
> will make a "shelf" about 6" wide. =A0I will route the top side on the out=
side
> to put a small notch in which I will insert a thin strip of frosted glass =
or
> fiber glass about 3 to 4" tall so this will form the "lip" of the shelf.
>
> Inside the shelf I will put 48" long florescent light fixture and chain th=
em
> up all around.
>
> This seems simple to do I just need some suggestion on how I would secure
> the 2x6 sideways to the concrete block wall. =A0I don't want to use any
> visible braces. =A0Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> MC

Use 1x6 attach 1x2 to the 1x6 with L brackets , screw the 1x2 into the
wall, or just screw L braclets to the wall. Look at T-8 dimmable
flourescent lights.

MiamiCuse

2008-01-28, 3:25 am

<nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu> wrote in message
news:fnhtil$fl1@acadia.ece.villanova.edu...
> MiamiCuse <nmbexcuse@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> You might not need the glass if you attach the fixtures to the wall or put
> them on the shelf near the wall so you can't see the tubes from the other
> side of the room. If the top of the tube is 3" above the shelf and 2" from
> the wall, how wide must the shelf be to make the tube invisible to someone
> 6' tall and 28' away?
>
>
> Corner brackets above the shelves or blue screws in deep countersinks?
>
> Nick
>

I was thinking about that, but I think it is visible from some angle, also
without the glass I think the light will be too "direct" instead of all
bounced off the ceiling.

As far as attachments, with your suggestions I have three options:

1 - use concrete anchor bolts, deep into the concrete, and drill holes on
the 2x lumber on the side facing the walls to insert the other end of the
concrete anchor. This probably is the strongest but may be tricky to align
all the holes with all the anchors.

2 - tapcon with deep countersinks.

3- L brackets tapcon to concrete wall, wood screw on 2x.

I wonder which one will be stronger 2 or 3?

MC

MiamiCuse

2008-01-28, 3:25 am

"ransley" <Mark_Ransley@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3da71f68-674d-46ae-9c2f-6872c8e9da58@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 26, 9:34 pm, "MiamiCuse" <nmbexc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I am toying with the idea of building a light cove around the entire
> living
> room (about 28'x22') then use recessed lights and other lights towards the
> middle.
>
> My idea is to attach a 2x6 horizontally to the concrete block wall, which
> will make a "shelf" about 6" wide. I will route the top side on the
> outside
> to put a small notch in which I will insert a thin strip of frosted glass
> or
> fiber glass about 3 to 4" tall so this will form the "lip" of the shelf.
>
> Inside the shelf I will put 48" long florescent light fixture and chain
> them
> up all around.
>
> This seems simple to do I just need some suggestion on how I would secure
> the 2x6 sideways to the concrete block wall. I don't want to use any
> visible braces. Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> MC

Use 1x6 attach 1x2 to the 1x6 with L brackets , screw the 1x2 into the
wall, or just screw L braclets to the wall. Look at T-8 dimmable
flourescent lights.

Thanks. Will you use L brackets spaced every few inches (say 8 or 12) or
will you get a continuous long L bracket?

MC

MiamiCuse

2008-01-28, 3:25 am

"MiamiCuse" <nmbexcuse@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:UamdnXmudbskZgbanZ2dnUVZ_jednZ2d@dsli.com...
>I am toying with the idea of building a light cove around the entire living
>room (about 28'x22') then use recessed lights and other lights towards the
>middle.
>
> My idea is to attach a 2x6 horizontally to the concrete block wall, which
> will make a "shelf" about 6" wide. I will route the top side on the
> outside to put a small notch in which I will insert a thin strip of
> frosted glass or fiber glass about 3 to 4" tall so this will form the
> "lip" of the shelf.
>
> Inside the shelf I will put 48" long florescent light fixture and chain
> them up all around.
>
> This seems simple to do I just need some suggestion on how I would secure
> the 2x6 sideways to the concrete block wall. I don't want to use any
> visible braces. Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> MC
>

Just talked to someone that makes me think I may need to change my design.

He said that since a florescent light fixture box is say 48" long, and I
need to chain them one after another to create this continuous light effect,
the fixtures need to overlap about 4 inches. His reasoning is that the
actual tube is not 48" long, may be 42" long with the sockets on both ends,
so if I chain them together, the socket from the last one to the socket of
the next one will create a six inch gap without lighting, therefore when I
turn on these lights, I will see light for 42", then a six inch gap, then
light for 42" again...and so on.

That seems to make sense, so to solve this I need to overlap the fixtures,
which means my "shelve" needs to be even wider?

Or will the light "wash" into each other and still have the continuously
lite effect?

MC

nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

2008-01-28, 9:26 am

MiamiCuse <nmbexcuse@hotmail.com> wrote:

><nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu> wrote in message

About 16". Or less, if the shelf tilts upwards.
[color=darkred]
>... without the glass I think the light will be too "direct" instead of all
>bounced off the ceiling.

Clear glass won't change the angles much. A linear parabolic reflector might
focus the light onto the center of the ceiling...

I'd vote for this:

>3- L brackets tapcon to concrete wall, wood screw on 2x.

Nick

nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

2008-01-28, 9:26 am

MiamiCuse <nmbexcuse@hotmail.com> wrote:

>... His reasoning is that the actual tube is not 48" long, may be 42" long
>with the sockets on both ends,

The tube itself is about 47.75", including the pins.

>... will the light "wash" into each other and still have the continuously
>lite effect?

I think so.

Nick

ransley

2008-01-28, 1:26 pm

On Jan 28, 1:55=A0am, "MiamiCuse" <nmbexc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "MiamiCuse" <nmbexc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:UamdnXmudbskZgbanZ2dnUVZ_jednZ2d@dsli.com...
>
>
>
>
>
ng[color=darkred]
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>
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>
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>
>
>
> Just talked to someone that makes me think I may need to change my design.=

>
> He said that since a florescent light fixture box is say 48" long, and I
> need to chain them one after another to create this continuous light effec=
t,
> the fixtures need to overlap about 4 inches. =A0His reasoning is that the
> actual tube is not 48" long, may be 42" long with the sockets on both ends=
,
> so if I chain them together, the socket from the last one to the socket of=

> the next one will create a six inch gap without lighting, therefore when I=

> turn on these lights, I will see light for 42", then a six inch gap, then
> light for 42" again...and so on.
>
> That seems to make sense, so to solve this I need to overlap the fixtures,=

> which means my "shelve" needs to be even wider?
>
> Or will the light "wash" into each other and still have the continuously
> lite effect?
>
> MC- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You need to calculate Lumens, Using single T8 around a room will be
plenty bright for a home, How big is the room. One double fixture T8
might be equal to 320 watts, for a 16x 16 room that is near equal to
5000 watts incandesant, or Daylight, and when you dimm them the color
goes kinda red.

nmbexcuse@hotmail.com

2008-01-28, 1:26 pm

On Jan 28, 11:07 am, ransley <Mark_Rans...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jan 28, 1:55 am, "MiamiCuse" <nmbexc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> You need to calculate Lumens, Using single T8 around a room will be
> plenty bright for a home, How big is the room. One double fixture T8
> might be equal to 320 watts, for a 16x 16 room that is near equal to
> 5000 watts incandesant, or Daylight, and when you dimm them the color
> goes kinda red.

Ransley thanks again for your reply.

The room is about 16'x32'. I plan to do this all around except at the
fireplace which is about 6' wide. So the total perimeter that would
be lit would be about 90 linear feet, or 22 fixtures of 48" in
length. I was thinking either single T8 or T12...I thought the T8 is
32W so if I have 22 of that would equate to 704W? I am not sure I am
doing this right. What is a decent total wattage, I don't think I
need it to be bright daylight.

I never seen florescent tubes dimmed, is this even possible?

Thanks again,

MC

nmbexcuse@hotmail.com

2008-01-28, 5:25 pm

ransley

2008-01-28, 5:25 pm

On Jan 28, 1:15=A0pm, nmbexc...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Jan 28, 11:07 am, ransley <Mark_Rans...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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hen[color=darkred]
>
res,[color=darkred]
>
ly[color=darkred]
>
>
>
>
> Ransley thanks again for your reply.
>
> The room is about 16'x32'. =A0I plan to do this all around except at the
> fireplace which is about 6' wide. =A0So the total perimeter that would
> be lit would be about 90 linear feet, or 22 fixtures of 48" in
> length. =A0I was thinking either single T8 or T12...I thought the T8 is
> 32W so if I have 22 of that would equate to 704W? =A0I am not sure I am
> doing this right. =A0What is a decent total wattage, I don't think I
> need it to be bright daylight.
>
> I never seen florescent tubes dimmed, is this even possible?
>
> Thanks again,
>
> MC- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

704 watt of T8 will be extremely bright, it might be uncomfortable. A
100 watt incandesant is 1400 lumen. A 32w soft white Philllips T8 is
2950 Lumens. 22 of them is 64900 Lumens! Or equal to 46, 100 watt
incandesants or 4600 watts of incandesants. Dimmer ballasts are
expensive maybe adding 600$, and they dont dim to Zero but maybe 20-
30% and there is the slight color change to red as you dim. A dimmer
for that might be 40-50$ before spending 1000 on lights put every
light you own in that room to see what 64900 lumen is like. But I have
46000 lumen in a kitchen, my T8 are in hollow beams shining up 12 of
them and the halogens dim to zero. The kitchen is like daylight if I
want it but the dimmed T8 gets a little red and im not that happy with
that. It could work, get one with a dimmer and test the idea. research
ballasts, new ones might get you to dim to 15%

nmbexcuse@hotmail.com

2008-01-28, 5:25 pm

On Jan 28, 2:56=A0pm, ransley <Mark_Rans...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jan 28, 1:15=A0pm, nmbexc...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
e living[color=darkred]
rds the[color=darkred]
>
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>
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>
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>
> 704 watt of T8 will be extremely bright, it might be uncomfortable. A
> 100 watt incandesant is 1400 lumen. A 32w soft white Philllips T8 is
> 2950 Lumens. 22 of them is 64900 Lumens! Or equal to 46, 100 watt
> incandesants or 4600 watts of incandesants. Dimmer ballasts are
> expensive maybe adding 600$, and they dont dim to Zero but maybe 20-
> 30% and there is the slight color change to red as you dim. A dimmer
> for that might be 40-50$ before spending 1000 on lights put every
> light you own in that room to see what 64900 lumen is like. But I have
> 46000 lumen in a kitchen, my T8 are in hollow beams shining up 12 of
> them and the halogens dim to zero. The kitchen is like daylight if I
> want it but the dimmed T8 gets a little red and im not that happy with
> that. It could work, get one with a dimmer and test the idea. research
> ballasts, new ones might get you to dim to 15%- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks for the advise. Yes I need to do more homework to make sure
the effect is what I want, thanks for the heads up again.

RicodJour

2008-01-29, 3:25 am

On Jan 26, 10:34 pm, "MiamiCuse" <nmbexc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I am toying with the idea of building a light cove around the entire living
> room (about 28'x22') then use recessed lights and other lights towards the
> middle.
>
> My idea is to attach a 2x6 horizontally to the concrete block wall, which
> will make a "shelf" about 6" wide. I will route the top side on the outside
> to put a small notch in which I will insert a thin strip of frosted glass or
> fiber glass about 3 to 4" tall so this will form the "lip" of the shelf.
>
> Inside the shelf I will put 48" long florescent light fixture and chain them
> up all around.
>
> This seems simple to do I just need some suggestion on how I would secure
> the 2x6 sideways to the concrete block wall. I don't want to use any
> visible braces. Any thoughts?

You're talking a lot of fluorescents, a lot of hum, a lot of bulbs to
change, and a lot of installation time. You're also talking about a
fair bit of wood and

Is the lighting effect solely what is driving this urge to build and
the lighting trough is necessary to conceal the 'guts'? Or is it more
that you like the architecturalishness of the band running around the
perimeter of the ceiling and while it's there you might as well throw
in some lighting? Critical difference.

If you're primarily interested in the lighting effect, and you want to
save a bucket of cash, I'd definitely look into using some rope
lighting, preferably LED. They kick out a nice amount of lighting
efficiently, couldn't be easier to install, are easy to replace, have
lifetimes measured in the many tens of thousands of hours and require
very little space to install. Did I mention they're cheap?

One solution would be to use two or three separate complete circuits
of rope light around the perimeter and have each on it's own switch -
that way you could vary the lighting level as desired. I'm not sure
if the rope lights are dimmable, but if they are, then you'd be set.

You really want the smallest open area acting as a shelf as possible -
the less projection the less dust it will catch. Fluorescents will
require a big box. Your friend is right about the need to address the
dark spots if you butt the fluorescent fixtures end to end. You could
use aluminum reflectors set inside the trough to bounce more of the
light towards the dark areas between bulb ends.

Since the rope light tubing is about 1/2" in diameter, two or three
runs could easily be hidden in a very small space and would require
only minimally projecting moldings. A single run of some deeper crown
molding would hide it well. Another alternative would be to build up
the cove out of 1x and trim to make it look like a frieze running
around the room. The frieze and molding detail would complement
whatever style of house you have.

Compare the costs for fluorescent versus the rope lighting and the
energy use both ways. And you should also take into account that
cleaning cove lighting is a XXXXX - even with a glass cover (is the
glass solely for cleaning purposes?).

R

MiamiCuse

2008-02-20, 8:25 pm

"RicodJour" <ricodjour@worldemail.com> wrote in message
news:258e87b8-ba27-4f58-8df5-0fddadd77dfb@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 26, 10:34 pm, "MiamiCuse" <nmbexc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> You're talking a lot of fluorescents, a lot of hum, a lot of bulbs to
> change, and a lot of installation time. You're also talking about a
> fair bit of wood and
>
> Is the lighting effect solely what is driving this urge to build and
> the lighting trough is necessary to conceal the 'guts'? Or is it more
> that you like the architecturalishness of the band running around the
> perimeter of the ceiling and while it's there you might as well throw
> in some lighting? Critical difference.
>
> If you're primarily interested in the lighting effect, and you want to
> save a bucket of cash, I'd definitely look into using some rope
> lighting, preferably LED. They kick out a nice amount of lighting
> efficiently, couldn't be easier to install, are easy to replace, have
> lifetimes measured in the many tens of thousands of hours and require
> very little space to install. Did I mention they're cheap?
>
> One solution would be to use two or three separate complete circuits
> of rope light around the perimeter and have each on it's own switch -
> that way you could vary the lighting level as desired. I'm not sure
> if the rope lights are dimmable, but if they are, then you'd be set.
>
> You really want the smallest open area acting as a shelf as possible -
> the less projection the less dust it will catch. Fluorescents will
> require a big box. Your friend is right about the need to address the
> dark spots if you butt the fluorescent fixtures end to end. You could
> use aluminum reflectors set inside the trough to bounce more of the
> light towards the dark areas between bulb ends.
>
> Since the rope light tubing is about 1/2" in diameter, two or three
> runs could easily be hidden in a very small space and would require
> only minimally projecting moldings. A single run of some deeper crown
> molding would hide it well. Another alternative would be to build up
> the cove out of 1x and trim to make it look like a frieze running
> around the room. The frieze and molding detail would complement
> whatever style of house you have.
>
> Compare the costs for fluorescent versus the rope lighting and the
> energy use both ways. And you should also take into account that
> cleaning cove lighting is a XXXXX - even with a glass cover (is the
> glass solely for cleaning purposes?).
>
> R

For some reason I missed this reply. RicodJour, the purpose of the light
cove is to lit this large room without hanging any lights in the middle or
floor lamps. I would like the room to be as "open" as possible. I can't
use recessed lights because the ceiling is too high and the space above it
is practically inaccessible (cedar deck lined ceiling with insulation inside
no space to run wire...). I could put a wall sconce spaced at a certain
distance would be another option. Finally, before I tore things down, that
room has a full perimeter light cove with fluorescent lights, only that 80%
of the ballast were out and I was never able to see what it looks like fully
lit before I demolished everything. Afterwards the more I think about it
the more I realized why they did it the way they did it so I thought I would
do the same.

LED rope lighting? I never heard of it, I will check into it, I thought
this is some disco light effect no? I am not looking for night club
lighting lol.

Thanks RicodJour, thanks for the advise, much appreciated. I will report
back my findings.

MC

RicodJour

2008-02-21, 3:27 am

On Feb 20, 9:23 pm, "MiamiCuse" <nmbexc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "RicodJour" <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:258e87b8-ba27-4f58-8df5-0fddadd77dfb@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For some reason I missed this reply. RicodJour, the purpose of the light
> cove is to lit this large room without hanging any lights in the middle or
> floor lamps. I would like the room to be as "open" as possible. I can't
> use recessed lights because the ceiling is too high and the space above it
> is practically inaccessible (cedar deck lined ceiling with insulation inside
> no space to run wire...). I could put a wall sconce spaced at a certain
> distance would be another option. Finally, before I tore things down, that
> room has a full perimeter light cove with fluorescent lights, only that 80%
> of the ballast were out and I was never able to see what it looks like fully
> lit before I demolished everything. Afterwards the more I think about it
> the more I realized why they did it the way they did it so I thought I would
> do the same.

Don't. Things have advanced a lot since your house was built.
Fluorescents and their ballasts kick out a fair amount of heat, and
considering where you live, that's probably not a feature you need.

> LED rope lighting? I never heard of it, I will check into it, I thought
> this is some disco light effect no? I am not looking for night club
> lighting lol.

They're recessed, you wouldn't ever see the light string, if you
staggered the two or three runs there'd be no telltale localized
brightness and the things use almost no energy and kick off almost no
heat. It's truly a no-brainer for your situation. The initial cost
is a bit higher than for cheap shop-light equivalent fluorescents, but
the operating costs would be far lower and you'd never have to change
a bulb.

> Thanks RicodJour, thanks for the advise, much appreciated. I will report
> back my findings.

Damn well better! I know where you live... ;)

R

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