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Home > Archive > Home Repair forum > February 2008 > Electrical again-Ceiling fixtures
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Electrical again-Ceiling fixtures
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| Charles Bishop 2008-02-06, 8:25 pm |
| I have a recessed fixture I'd like to convert to a surface mount fixture.
1. I'd remove the bulb and screw in a plug adaptor into the socket. Then
(power's off of course) plug in the male end of a extension cord, cut to
about 6 inches with the two ends stripped. Attach these two ends to the
leads for the fixture, keeping polarity. Then attach the fixture to the
ceiling and Bob's my uncle.
Anything wrong with this? I'd like to avoid removing the recessed fixture
and doing the work that entails.
If that's no good, how about
2. Power off. I remove the adjustable part of the can, with the socket
and disconnect the power wires from the socket. I use these wires to
connect with the leads from the surface mount fixture and then proceed as
in 1. Can the recessed fixture act as a jct box with no other
modification?
--
charles
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| Nate Nagel 2008-02-06, 8:25 pm |
| Charles Bishop wrote:
> I have a recessed fixture I'd like to convert to a surface mount fixture.
>
> 1. I'd remove the bulb and screw in a plug adaptor into the socket. Then
> (power's off of course) plug in the male end of a extension cord, cut to
> about 6 inches with the two ends stripped. Attach these two ends to the
> leads for the fixture, keeping polarity. Then attach the fixture to the
> ceiling and Bob's my uncle.
>
> Anything wrong with this? I'd like to avoid removing the recessed fixture
> and doing the work that entails.
>
> If that's no good, how about
>
> 2. Power off. I remove the adjustable part of the can, with the socket
> and disconnect the power wires from the socket. I use these wires to
> connect with the leads from the surface mount fixture and then proceed as
> in 1. Can the recessed fixture act as a jct box with no other
> modification?
>
why not remove the can light and then replace it with a ceiling box and
fan support? Those can be installed through a hole in the ceiling
little bigger than the box itself, and will provide a 100% proper
installation.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
| |
| Charles Bishop 2008-02-06, 8:25 pm |
| In article <fodo8n1orn@news2.newsguy.com>, Nate Nagel
<njnagel@roosters.net> wrote:
>Charles Bishop wrote:
>
>why not remove the can light and then replace it with a ceiling box and
>fan support? Those can be installed through a hole in the ceiling
>little bigger than the box itself, and will provide a 100% proper
>installation.
Because it's in a ceiling that is expanded metal lath on steel supports,
not the usual joists. I'd like to avoid the additional work and expense of
removing the entire unit.
--
charles
| |
| Pete C. 2008-02-06, 9:25 pm |
| Charles Bishop wrote:
>
> In article <fodo8n1orn@news2.newsguy.com>, Nate Nagel
> <njnagel@roosters.net> wrote:
>
>
> Because it's in a ceiling that is expanded metal lath on steel supports,
> not the usual joists. I'd like to avoid the additional work and expense of
> removing the entire unit.
>
> --
> charles
The turnbuckle style expanding ceiling fan support boxes should work
equally well with steel joists unless the spacing is a lot more than the
usual 16".
| |
| John Grabowski 2008-02-07, 3:25 am |
|
[color=darkred]
>
> Because it's in a ceiling that is expanded metal lath on steel supports,
> not the usual joists. I'd like to avoid the additional work and expense of
> removing the entire unit.
So a potential fire hazard is more desirable?!! The recessed light should
already have a built-in junction box on it. Remove the can and the cable to
the can. Open up the recessed light junction box and disconnect the wires
that fed the can and remove them. There should be additional knockouts in
the junction box. Install a Romex connector in one of them and put a short
piece of 14/2 Romex into the junction box. Connect the ground wire and the
white and black and then close the box up.
Get a piece of 2" x 4" and slide it up into the opening and let it rest on
the metal lathe. Get a 4" round metal electrical box and install a Romex
connector in a side knockout. Bring the other end of the 14/2 Romex into
the round box and ground the box. Then mount it to the 2" x 4" in the
ceiling using wood or sheet metal screws. Now you can mount a light fixture
to the box using a ceiling medallion to cover the large opening from the
recessed light.
This advice may not suit your situation exactly so feel free to improvise.
The main thing is that the junction box from the existing recessed light
must remain accessible without having to tear open the ceiling.
| |
| Eric9822 2008-02-07, 3:25 am |
| On Feb 6, 5:27=A0pm, ctbis...@earthlink.net (Charles Bishop) wrote:
> I have a recessed fixture I'd like to convert to a surface mount fixture.
>
> 1. =A0I'd remove the bulb and screw in a plug adaptor into the socket. The=
n
> (power's off of course) plug in the male end of a extension cord, cut to
> about 6 inches with the two ends stripped. Attach these two ends to the
> leads for the fixture, keeping polarity. Then attach the fixture to the
> ceiling and Bob's my uncle.
>
> Anything wrong with this? I'd like to avoid removing the recessed fixture
> and doing the work that entails.
>
> If that's no good, how about
>
> 2. =A0Power off. I remove the adjustable part of the can, with the socket
> and disconnect the power wires from the socket. I use these wires to
> connect with the leads from the surface mount fixture and then proceed as
> in 1. Can the recessed fixture act as a jct box with no other
> modification?
>
> --
> charles
Option # 1 - Not NEC compliant. Check section 400.7 approved uses for
flexible cords, your use is not listed. Also check 400.8, flexible
cord uses not permitted. Scetion 400.8(1) prohibits flexible cords as
a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure.
Option #2 - In my opinion this violates section 110.3(B) which states
Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance
with any instructions included in the listing or labeling. I
seriously doubt the existing fixture is listed as a modified junction
box for another fixture. It also sounds like this would be a
violation of section 314.29 that covers accesibilty of junction boxes.
All references are NEC 2005. If removing the existing fixture is
troublesome you can always disconect it, abandon it in place, and
cover it with a properly wired surface mount fixture.
| |
| jJim McLaughlin 2008-02-07, 1:25 pm |
| Charles Bishop wrote:
> I have a recessed fixture I'd like to convert to a surface mount fixture.
>
> 1. I'd remove the bulb and screw in a plug adaptor into the socket. Then
> (power's off of course) plug in the male end of a extension cord, cut to
> about 6 inches with the two ends stripped. Attach these two ends to the
> leads for the fixture, keeping polarity. Then attach the fixture to the
> ceiling and Bob's my uncle.
>
> Anything wrong with this?
Well, besides the code violations there is voiding your fire insurance
coverage
if you have a poblem. That may not be "wrong" from your perspectiv, but
from
my point of view it is industrial strength stoooopid.
You can't use lamp cord / zip / extension cord in a wall or ceiling.
You have no
ground to the new fixture.
I hope your Uncle Bob hasmore sense than you.
I'd like to avoid removing the recessed fixture
> and doing the work that entails.
>
Yeah, I can see that you'd hate to do it right.
> If that's no good, how about
>
> 2. Power off. I remove the adjustable part of the can, with the socket
> and disconnect the power wires from the socket. I use these wires to
> connect with the leads from the surface mount fixture and then proceed as
> in 1. Can the recessed fixture act as a jct box with no other
> modification?
>
No.
| |
| Charles Bishop 2008-02-10, 3:25 am |
| In article <47AA76F1.E1CB8C1@snet.net>, "Pete C." <aux3.DOH.4@snet.net> wrote:
>Charles Bishop wrote:
>
>The turnbuckle style expanding ceiling fan support boxes should work
>equally well with steel joists unless the spacing is a lot more than the
>usual 16".
These aren't steel joists. It's steel U-channel that has expanded metal
lath attached, then plaster (or stucco). Please believe me when I say I'm
looking for a solution that doesn't involve taking out the existing cans
and replacing them with a j-box. Doing this work would cost more than is
in the budget.
--
charles
| |
| Charles Bishop 2008-02-10, 3:25 am |
| In article
<d1d3a0e4-d00f-4451-9e05-15e75f9e34c5@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
Eric9822 <tisabooks@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Feb 6, 5:27=A0pm, ctbis...@earthlink.net (Charles Bishop) wrote:
>n
>
>Option # 1 - Not NEC compliant. Check section 400.7 approved uses for
>flexible cords, your use is not listed. Also check 400.8, flexible
>cord uses not permitted. Scetion 400.8(1) prohibits flexible cords as
>a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure.
>
>Option #2 - In my opinion this violates section 110.3(B) which states
>Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance
>with any instructions included in the listing or labeling. I
>seriously doubt the existing fixture is listed as a modified junction
>box for another fixture. It also sounds like this would be a
>violation of section 314.29 that covers accesibilty of junction boxes.
>
>All references are NEC 2005. If removing the existing fixture is
>troublesome you can always disconect it, abandon it in place, and
>cover it with a properly wired surface mount fixture.
Eric, thanks. This is the information I was looking for. Not that it
solves the problem, but it tells me why the proposed solution wouldn't
work.
However, just as a side note, if the recessed can is used as a j-box, it
would still be accessible. All that would be needed is to take off the
surface fixture and all the connections would be accessible. Still, it
sounds as if it wouldn't pass code.
Thanks again for your help.
--
charles
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