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Is a generator feasible for my needs?
|
|
|
| I live in East Texas, and I lost the contents of my refrigerator and freezer
for the second time in 2 years (this time from Hurricane Rita -- which also
caused a power outage for 1 week, so air conditioning was off in all this
heat). Can anyone give me some advice about home generators -- cost,
safety, ease of use, etc.? I would need to set it up myself if I ever lost
power, and I have some arthritis in my fingers. Therefore, I think I would
need to get one with an electric (battery-powered) switch instead of one
that has to be "cranked up." I read about several deaths from carbon
monoxide poisoning caused by an generator, so I know it would need to be
wheeled outside, and I understand that appliances would have to be connected
to it by long extension cords.
How heavy are they and how difficult to wheel around? (There are *none*
available in this community right now, so I haven't had a chance to actually
look at one, but I would like to be prepared "next time.") I know they come
in different sizes. I was thinking of one that would handle an upright
freezer, a large double-door refrigerator, a lamp, and a fan. The house has
central air, so that is out of the question, but I would like to get a fan
that is powerful enough to make life more livable if I lose power for an
extended period again.
Thanks for any help!
MaryL
| |
|
| MaryL wrote:
> I live in East Texas, and I lost the contents of my refrigerator and freezer
> for the second time in 2 years (this time from Hurricane Rita -- which also
> caused a power outage for 1 week, so air conditioning was off in all this
> heat). Can anyone give me some advice about home generators -- cost,
> safety, ease of use, etc.? I would need to set it up myself if I ever lost
> power, and I have some arthritis in my fingers. Therefore, I think I would
> need to get one with an electric (battery-powered) switch instead of one
> that has to be "cranked up." I read about several deaths from carbon
> monoxide poisoning caused by an generator, so I know it would need to be
> wheeled outside, and I understand that appliances would have to be connected
> to it by long extension cords.
>
> How heavy are they and how difficult to wheel around? (There are *none*
> available in this community right now, so I haven't had a chance to actually
> look at one, but I would like to be prepared "next time.") I know they come
> in different sizes. I was thinking of one that would handle an upright
> freezer, a large double-door refrigerator, a lamp, and a fan. The house has
> central air, so that is out of the question, but I would like to get a fan
> that is powerful enough to make life more livable if I lose power for an
> extended period again.
>
> Thanks for any help!
> MaryL
>
>
there are now avalible solar/gridtie/backup with very good efficency
figures and you can allso cut your electric bill as well . most of the
grid tie inverter co's produce thease systems .
| |
| Eric Sears 2005-10-04, 8:21 am |
| Greetings MaryL
Just a few general comments:
1. You really needs to consult someone who can look at your fridge amd
freezer and see how much current they draw (which includes the
"start-up" current - much higher than the running current).
In addition, if you tried to start them both at the same time, you
would need a fairly big generator.
2. If you are thinking of a petrol (gas) generator, you need to be
aware that stored fuel can cause problems if stored too long - though
personally I've never had much trouble even with fuel stored for 6
months.
3. I imagine that an electric start generator of 3 to 4 kw might be
sufficient - maybe smaller if you manage the loads and ensure that no
two loads (ie fridge and freezer) start at the same time.
4. The light and fan only draw very little current.
5. For what its worth - what I would do is the following :
a) I would get a petrol (=gas) generator of about 2.5 to 3 kw, maybe
with dual electric/pull start if possible (if the battery goes flat it
might be no use unless you have jump leads that you can use from your
car). I prefer gennys with Honda motors.
b) In your case I would put it on a little wheeled trolley and
position it in a garage so that it can be wheeled outside (have a good
chain and padlock available - it will be worth stealing!).
c) Have a long extension cord and a minimum 4-5 outlet multibox that
you keep with it.
d) In an emergency only run the generator 3 times a day - say for
about 2 hours each time - that should be enough to keep the fridge and
freezer cold enough. You can wheel it back inside overnight for 8
hours while it is not being used.
e) In addition, get a spare larger 12 volt car battery (its probably
not worth investing in a deep cycle battery for such low use), a heavy
duty battery charger (8 amps if possible, or use two cheaper 4 amp
ones), and a small (say 200 - 500 watt) cheap 12v inverter (a mod
square one should be ok for fan and lights). Normally you would charge
the battery from utility power, but during the emergency it would be
plugged into the generator so that it was charged every time the
generator is running.
At say 4 - 5 litres of fuel per day, you might want to store 20 litres
- I don't know what your regulations are there.
Probably the generator should have a test run at least every 6 months.
The fan and light(s) could run on the generator while it was
operating, then plug it into the inverter when the generator is off.
You could do without the inverter if you used 12 volt lights and fan!
Just my tuppence worth
Eric Sears
On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 00:40:13 -0500, "MaryL"
<carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>I live in East Texas, and I lost the contents of my refrigerator and freezer
>for the second time in 2 years (this time from Hurricane Rita -- which also
>caused a power outage for 1 week, so air conditioning was off in all this
>heat). Can anyone give me some advice about home generators -- cost,
>safety, ease of use, etc.? I would need to set it up myself if I ever lost
>power, and I have some arthritis in my fingers. Therefore, I think I would
>need to get one with an electric (battery-powered) switch instead of one
>that has to be "cranked up." I read about several deaths from carbon
>monoxide poisoning caused by an generator, so I know it would need to be
>wheeled outside, and I understand that appliances would have to be connected
>to it by long extension cords.
>
>How heavy are they and how difficult to wheel around? (There are *none*
>available in this community right now, so I haven't had a chance to actually
>look at one, but I would like to be prepared "next time.") I know they come
>in different sizes. I was thinking of one that would handle an upright
>freezer, a large double-door refrigerator, a lamp, and a fan. The house has
>central air, so that is out of the question, but I would like to get a fan
>that is powerful enough to make life more livable if I lose power for an
>extended period again.
>
>Thanks for any help!
>MaryL
>
>
| |
| Ulysses 2005-10-04, 1:21 pm |
|
"MaryL" <carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
news:_Ao0f.37$xE1.12@okepread07...
> I live in East Texas, and I lost the contents of my refrigerator and
freezer
> for the second time in 2 years (this time from Hurricane Rita -- which
also
> caused a power outage for 1 week, so air conditioning was off in all this
> heat). Can anyone give me some advice about home generators -- cost,
> safety, ease of use, etc.? I would need to set it up myself if I ever
lost
> power, and I have some arthritis in my fingers. Therefore, I think I
would
> need to get one with an electric (battery-powered) switch instead of one
> that has to be "cranked up." I read about several deaths from carbon
> monoxide poisoning caused by an generator, so I know it would need to be
> wheeled outside, and I understand that appliances would have to be
connected
> to it by long extension cords.
>
> How heavy are they and how difficult to wheel around? (There are *none*
> available in this community right now, so I haven't had a chance to
actually
> look at one, but I would like to be prepared "next time.") I know they
come
> in different sizes. I was thinking of one that would handle an upright
> freezer, a large double-door refrigerator, a lamp, and a fan. The house
has
> central air, so that is out of the question, but I would like to get a fan
> that is powerful enough to make life more livable if I lose power for an
> extended period again.
>
> Thanks for any help!
> MaryL
>
>
I think the toughest part of your problem is the freezer. You would only
need a small generator to run your refrigerator (2000 watts) and light and
fan but once you add the freezer you will need twice as much power available
(well, almost twice as much). I have a little Honda eu2000 and it will run
a 24 cu/ft refrigerator easily and have enough power left over for a couple
of small loads but will only run about 5 hours on it's tank of gas. It is a
pull start so it might be difficult for you to start. A Honda eu3000 would
probably be big enough to suit your emergency needs (eu2000 is really rated
at 1500 watts and the eu3000 is about 2800 I think) and comes with an
electric start. It could also easily run a window air conditioner around
8000 btu but once again you would not be able to run the refrigerator,
freezer, and AC all at once.
Some kind of 12 volt source would be very convenient too. You could charge
batteries while the generator is running and have enough power to watch TV
or run a computer for several hours before needing to recharge. You would
need a lot of batteries, however, to run a refrigerator or freezer and a
fairly big inverter--probably at least 1500 watts. If you just wanted to
watch TV etc a 700 or 800 watt inverter would do nicely along with 220 amp
hours of batteries (such as two 6 volt golf cart batteries in series). And
you would need a battery charger too of course.
Some kind of standby generator that runs from natural gas or propane would
probably be your best bet assuming your gas supply is still available during
a storm. It will probably be hot so you will need to run your refrigerator
and freezer quite a bit to keep the food cold and this could be easily done
on natural gas or propane. I would think running it most or all of the day
and turning it off when you go to bed might be necessary. You can store
gasoline for a year or more if you add a stabilizer such as Sta-Bil (auto
parts store) but it's not a good idea to store much gasoline due to the
obvious dangers involved and you won't be wanting to run it all day because
you will have a limited supply of fuel and will have to be filling the gas
tank. Since hurricanes only happen a few months out of the year you can
probably just go get your gas cans filled when you know it's coming.
Extension cords will work for a brief period but the best way to do it is to
have an electrician install a transfer switch that would allow you to
connect the generator directly to your panel and isolate it from the grid.
All this stuff costs money so part of the decision is how much you want to
spend. Personally I would not buy a cheap generator because it may not work
when you need it. Stick with Honda (or at least one with a Honda engine) or
perhaps Yamaha. I choose Honda because there is no warranty repair center
near me for Yamaha.
As for the carbon monoxide I assume it will be raining a lot while you are
using your generator so perhaps you could put it in your garage or
someplace and provide some ventilation to prevent CO buildup. Or under a
patio cover might be better.
Bottom line: I think I would start out, in your situtaion, with a Honda
eu3000 with electric start or similar sized Yamaha and find out about
converting it to propane or natural gas. And be careful with the extension
cords.
| |
| Harry Chickpea 2005-10-04, 1:21 pm |
| "MaryL" <carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>I live in East Texas, and I lost the contents of my refrigerator and freezer
>for the second time in 2 years (this time from Hurricane Rita -- which also
>caused a power outage for 1 week, so air conditioning was off in all this
>heat). Can anyone give me some advice about home generators -- cost,
>safety, ease of use, etc.? I would need to set it up myself if I ever lost
>power, and I have some arthritis in my fingers. Therefore, I think I would
>need to get one with an electric (battery-powered) switch instead of one
>that has to be "cranked up." I read about several deaths from carbon
>monoxide poisoning caused by an generator, so I know it would need to be
>wheeled outside, and I understand that appliances would have to be connected
>to it by long extension cords.
>
>How heavy are they and how difficult to wheel around? (There are *none*
>available in this community right now, so I haven't had a chance to actually
>look at one, but I would like to be prepared "next time.") I know they come
>in different sizes. I was thinking of one that would handle an upright
>freezer, a large double-door refrigerator, a lamp, and a fan. The house has
>central air, so that is out of the question, but I would like to get a fan
>that is powerful enough to make life more livable if I lose power for an
>extended period again.
>
>Thanks for any help!
>MaryL
Off the top of my head-
The cheapest generators are "construction" generators, used to build
where power isn't available. They are remarkably noisy, and they
don't have a terribly long lifespan. They will, however, work for
emergency power. Cost without a powered start is $400+.
Forget about wheeling them around. The regular ones take two men to
lift, have no wheels, and are difficult to drag.
These generators have a pull start. If you can pull a cord a couple
of times, you can use a spray can of starting fluid or choke cleaner
to ensure a start by the second pull on the cord. Just spray a very
small amount on the air filter.
As designed, these units are supposed to be powered off and allowed to
cool a little before refilling. I'm not saying that some people don't
refill them with the engine running, but it is VERY dangerous and
foolish to do this using the average poorly designed gas can, with the
possibility of vapors igniting, hot parts, spilled gas, etc.
Estimate between a half-gallon and gallon of gasoline for each hour of
use. Running 24/7 for five days, that is at least 60 gallons of gas,
close to $180 at today's prices. Forget about trying to buy gas
within 24 hours of a hurricane landfall or for the week after. This
puts you in a bind, since most municipalities won't allow you to store
that much gas, and for good reason. Just two or three DROPS of
gasoline in the bottom of a tube can lob a potato a couple of blocks.
An accident with a single can of gas might destroy your house, sixty
gallons has the potential of destroying the neighborhood.
Can you run the generator for just a couple of hours at a time to keep
your food cool? Sort-of. Many refrigerators now have very small
compressors that are designed to run a substantial portion of the day,
and the insulation is designed with constant power in mind. Unless
you keep the generator on all the time, there will be a warm/cool
cycle that will slowly warm the food. This may be OK for a day or two,
but by the third day, there can be frozen food starting to thaw, and
"freezer burn" affecting that food even if it is salvagable. Keeping
an ice cube on a saucer in the freezer can give you a quick gauge of
the situation.
Refrigerated foods won't last as long as normal, but as long as you
don't have a refrigerator crammed full of food that rarely gets eaten,
and use food promptly, it should be OK. Just don't expect normal
refrigeration and freezing with only a partial powering of these
appliances.
Most of the generators will power a small (5,000 btu) room air
conditioner. These are available for less than $100. Fans are good,
but AC is sometimes a necessity, especially since once a hurricane
pulls all the moisture out of the air, the next few days are usually
hotter than hell from the unrelenting sun.
If you use extension cords, you need to be aware that the power drops
quickly over distance, and that only short cords with heavy (12 or 14
gauge) wire are suitable. Running a smaller cord or long cord can
reduce the power to the compressors in your refrigerator and freezer
and damage them.
Figure that you've now spent about $750 now to be marginally
comfortable for five days. If you are protecting property (including
the generator), you also need a gun and the ability and willingness to
shoot it. That brings the cost up above $1,000.
To do the job right, with a permanently installed generator on a slab,
connection to a natural gas line or liquified gas tank, automatic
start, etc. you can easily triple that figure, and ten times that
amount is not unreasonable. You then have to hope that a burst gas
main from storm damage won't cut off the gas to your generator.
Still, if you have arthritis, this is the only way to go.
Next you have to figure the chances of your actually using the setup.
The storm has to be big enough to take out power, yet small enough to
not damage your home so as to be unlivable. If you have a concrete
block home, roof straps, and no overhanging trees, there is a real
possibility that you'll be fine. If you have a stick-built house, big
trees, no storm shutters, or other flaws of defense, you might never
get to use the system.
If your system does work as planned, how will you handle less prepared
neighbors and friends that expect you to help them out? Will you turn
them away and realize that they will forever remember? Or will you
share your food and cool space and turn your home into a motel and
restaurant?
These are all questions you need to address before spending a dime.
For the amount you will spend, you can buy a new freezer full of food
and stay at a swanky resort until the power returns. Your insurance
may even end up paying for your lodging and the lost food. It won't
pay for your installing a generator.
| |
| Vaughn Simon 2005-10-04, 3:21 pm |
|
"samc" <remprefix.samuel.7scrubthis9@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:43424eff$1_3@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> there are now avalible solar/gridtie/backup with very good efficency
> figures and you can allso cut your electric bill as well . most of the
> grid tie inverter co's produce thease systems .
Solar, especially grid-tie batteryless systems, is not normally a
logical choice when the goal is just emergency power.
Vaughn
| |
|
| Vaughn Simon wrote:
> "samc" <remprefix.samuel.7scrubthis9@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:43424eff$1_3@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>
>
>
> Solar, especially grid-tie batteryless systems, is not normally a
> logical choice when the goal is just emergency power.
>
> Vaughn
>
>
if you read my post corectly you would have noticed that I mentioned
grid tie with batt backup .
| |
| Robert Morein 2005-10-04, 6:21 pm |
|
"samc" <remprefix.samuel.7scrubthis9@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4342df8e_3@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> Vaughn Simon wrote:
>
> if you read my post corectly you would have noticed that I mentioned
> grid tie with batt backup .
Of course. Why spend a grand when you can spend $30K ?
| |
| Sugarite 2005-10-04, 7:21 pm |
| In article <iYGdnfpxxP-6dt_eRVn-jg@giganews.com>,
"Robert Morein" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote:
> "samc" <remprefix.samuel.7scrubthis9@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:4342df8e_3@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>
> Of course. Why spend a grand when you can spend $30K ?
How much have you spent so far Robert?
| |
| Antipodean Bucket Farmer 2005-10-04, 7:21 pm |
| In article <43439597.679319@localhost>,
hchickpeaREMOVEME@hotmail.com says...
> Figure that you've now spent about $750 now to be marginally
> comfortable for five days. If you are protecting property (including
> the generator), you also need a gun and the ability and willingness to
> shoot it. That brings the cost up above $1,000.
....
> If your system does work as planned, how will you handle less prepared
> neighbors and friends that expect you to help them out? Will you turn
> them away and realize that they will forever remember? Or will you
> share your food and cool space and turn your home into a motel and
> restaurant?
It won't be, "a motel and restaurant," because those
places charge money. It would be more like a "free"
homeless shelter and soup kitchen. With exactly ZERO
gratitude or reciprocity from the leeches. Ever. They
will drag you down, and then become enraged when you
set any limits, even limits on your *ability* to give.
This applies to non-crisis times, as well. And can
involve anything from money to emotional baby-sitting.
A fundamental part of being prepared includes setting
boundaries NOW, to avoid irresponsible, non-prepared
induhviduals thinking that you will be their personal
sugar-mommy anytime they feel deprived.
--
Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
http://www.cardreport.com/
Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum
| |
| Vaughn 2005-10-04, 7:21 pm |
|
"samc" <remprefix.samuel.7scrubthis9@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4342df8e_3@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> Vaughn Simon wrote:
>
> if you read my post corectly you would have noticed that I mentioned grid tie
> with batt backup .
Actually, I saw nothing about a battery. But regardless, there are many
reasons why PV makes little sense for backup power. I like PV and have a modest
system myself, but PV makes damn expensive, complicated, nonportable,
storm-vulnerable backup power. Also, where I live, storms are the biggest
factor that cause power failures, yet clouds often accompany storms...giving the
least power just when you need it the most. I find that generators are a far
more practical solution for 99.9% of normal domestic backup power situations.
There is a good reason why you find generators in Home Depot and no PV.
Vaughn
| |
| Arnold Walker 2005-10-04, 8:21 pm |
|
"samc" <remprefix.samuel.7scrubthis9@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:43424eff$1_3@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> MaryL wrote:
freezer[color=darkred]
also[color=darkred]
this[color=darkred]
lost[color=darkred]
would[color=darkred]
connected[color=darkred]
actually[color=darkred]
come[color=darkred]
has[color=darkred]
fan[color=darkred]
Living in East Texas as a steam and diesel fanatic....that is a hard
question in a sense.
For the short term outage ,your neighbors went down to Lowe's and got a gas
generator.
good for 24/7 of about 3wks to a month for $600.00.
As to me....I went steam(wood fired chips like the Temple,
International,and Champion plants
near your house...no matter what part of East Texas you are in.) off gird
and thinking about a
diesel backup generator.Mother nature has sort generated a supply of fuel
everywhere for me.
And folks will even, pay me to haul it off at the moment.Don't know where I
am going put the surplus .....
On vehicles did you notice that there was diesel all thru Rita when the gas
pumps were dry.
And when hearing folks waiting upwards of 12hrs in the initial rush from
Houston/Beaumont.
Figured it might be nice to know as well.[color=darkred]
> there are now avalible solar/gridtie/backup with very good efficency
> figures and you can allso cut your electric bill as well . most of the
> grid tie inverter co's produce thease systems .
>
----== Posted via droptable.com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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| |
| Arnold Walker 2005-10-04, 8:21 pm |
|
"samc" <remprefix.samuel.7scrubthis9@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:43424eff$1_3@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> MaryL wrote:
freezer[color=darkred]
also[color=darkred]
this[color=darkred]
lost[color=darkred]
would[color=darkred]
connected[color=darkred]
actually[color=darkred]
come[color=darkred]
has[color=darkred]
fan[color=darkred]
Hopefully you are not commerical ......more than a few resturant owners
found that
the inventory coverage did not include the refrigerater.
So,like Greg Randolf of Dominoe Pizza in Lufkin,Nacogdoches, and Palestine.
He lost $3000 to $4000 worth of food at each of two locations,that could
have been covered
by a cheap generator plugged in into the "reefer".
I wonder why transfer switches are a hot ticket item at East Texas
restuarants?[color=darkred]
> there are now avalible solar/gridtie/backup with very good efficency
> figures and you can allso cut your electric bill as well . most of the
> grid tie inverter co's produce thease systems .
>
----== Posted via droptable.com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.droptable.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
| |
| MaryL 2005-10-05, 12:21 am |
|
"MaryL" <carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
news:_Ao0f.37$xE1.12@okepread07...
>
Thanks for the help, everyone. You have provided *very* useful information,
even though the end result is that I have now decided that a generator
really would not be very practical for me. I had not considered
maintenance, the necessity to keep fuel available, etc., and I am also
concerned about safety and whether I could physically handle the process
since I would not have anyone to help me. The cost is a big factor in
practicality. I have lost the contents of my refrigerator and freezer twice
in two years. Before that, I had not had a power outage long enough to
cause loss of food for about 12 years. So, I really could afford to lose
the amount of food I store (for one person) several times over before paying
for a generator. The extreme discomfort from lack of air conditioning is
another factor, but a generator that I would have bought would not be large
enough to take care of that, anyway (although I would have been able to run
a fan). Two years ago, I simply packed up and moved to a motel for a couple
of days! This time, I was without power for a week, but there were no
motel/hotel rooms available for many miles because of hurricane evacuees.
However, a friend learned that I still didn't have power and invited me to
stay with them. Their power was back on, and they had air conditining. So,
I spent the last two days in relative comfort ("relative" only because it is
never quite the same when staying at someone else's home -- but they were
wonderful to think of me).
Thanks, again. All of you have been extremely helpful.
MaryL
| |
| Tony Wesley 2005-10-05, 2:21 am |
| MaryL wrote:
> Thanks for the help, everyone. You have provided *very* useful information,
> even though the end result is that I have now decided that a generator
> really would not be very practical for me. [...]
I agree with your conclusion.
I have another suggestion.
If you only want to keep the contents of your refridgerator and your
freezer, there is a lower-cost solution with much less effort than a
generator. Get a second freezer and fill it with ice in small enough
containers as to make easy to move. I'd freeze bottled water. To
avoid bursting the plastic bottle, open the bottle, pour some out and
freeze the contents. Then add more water and freeze that. Repeat
until you have completely filled bottles of ice.
When power fails, you have a large supply of ice on hand to put in the
refridgerator and other freezer.
You can buy a seven cubic foot freezer at home depot for under $200. A
WAG for energy cost to operate it is $5 a month.
Seven cubic feet = 52.3 gallons. Assuming 20% space lost due to
packing, still over 40 gallons. A gallon of water weights 8.33 pounds,
the 40 gallons in our freezer has about 330 pounds of water. It takes
144 BTUs to melt 1 pound of ice. Total coolth storage = 144 * 330 =
47520 BTUs.
That gives you over 300 pounds of ice to get you through a power
failure.
| |
| Harry Chickpea 2005-10-05, 2:21 am |
| "Tony Wesley" <tonywesley@gmail.com> wrote:
>MaryL wrote:
>
>I agree with your conclusion.
Moi, aussi. The "fit" just isn't there for a lot of people, and the
cost/return ratio can be way off.
| |
| me@privacy.net 2005-10-05, 5:21 pm |
| "MaryL" <carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER>
wrote:
>Two years ago, I simply packed up and moved to a motel for a couple
>of days! This time, I was without power for a week,
So have you concluded that its best for you to just bug
out vs trying to stay somewhere?
I'm in same dilemma as you.... no resources or money
to buy equip to stay..... so have decided bugging out
is best for me.
Agree?
| |
| Solar Flare 2005-10-05, 7:21 pm |
| When your freezer thaws you will also have 300 pounds of thawed ice in a
second freezer
"Tony Wesley" <tonywesley@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128486028.667986.230780@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
MaryL wrote:
> Thanks for the help, everyone. You have provided *very* useful
information,
> even though the end result is that I have now decided that a generator
> really would not be very practical for me. [...]
I agree with your conclusion.
I have another suggestion.
If you only want to keep the contents of your refridgerator and your
freezer, there is a lower-cost solution with much less effort than a
generator. Get a second freezer and fill it with ice in small enough
containers as to make easy to move. I'd freeze bottled water. To
avoid bursting the plastic bottle, open the bottle, pour some out and
freeze the contents. Then add more water and freeze that. Repeat
until you have completely filled bottles of ice.
When power fails, you have a large supply of ice on hand to put in the
refridgerator and other freezer.
You can buy a seven cubic foot freezer at home depot for under $200. A
WAG for energy cost to operate it is $5 a month.
Seven cubic feet = 52.3 gallons. Assuming 20% space lost due to
packing, still over 40 gallons. A gallon of water weights 8.33 pounds,
the 40 gallons in our freezer has about 330 pounds of water. It takes
144 BTUs to melt 1 pound of ice. Total coolth storage = 144 * 330 =
47520 BTUs.
That gives you over 300 pounds of ice to get you through a power
failure.
| |
|
|
<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:nv98k1tl931f2qn70bra2hmd262s6vvg9l@4ax.com...
> "MaryL" <carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER>
> wrote:
>
>
> So have you concluded that its best for you to just bug
> out vs trying to stay somewhere?
>
> I'm in same dilemma as you.... no resources or money
> to buy equip to stay..... so have decided bugging out
> is best for me.
>
> Agree?
Basically, yes, although I would go to a motel *if* rooms were available.
In the most recent instance, we already had lots of evacuees from Katrina
and Rita, so there were literally *no* available motel or hotel rooms in
town.
MaryL
| |
| Arnold Walker 2005-10-05, 7:21 pm |
|
"MaryL" <carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
news:4JX0f.2534$xE1.1420@okepread07...
>
> <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:nv98k1tl931f2qn70bra2hmd262s6vvg9l@4ax.com...
>
> Basically, yes, although I would go to a motel *if* rooms were available.
> In the most recent instance, we already had lots of evacuees from Katrina
> and Rita, so there were literally *no* available motel or hotel rooms in
> town.
>
> MaryL
Angelina county.......doubled in size from the storm.
Still got folks at the UP Campgrounds and half the churchs in town.
Hearing the same from other areas as well.
>
>
>
----== Posted via droptable.com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.droptable.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
| |
| me@privacy.net 2005-10-05, 8:21 pm |
| "MaryL" <carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER>
wrote:
>Basically, yes, although I would go to a motel *if* rooms were available.
>In the most recent instance, we already had lots of evacuees from Katrina
>and Rita, so there were literally *no* available motel or hotel rooms in
>town.
I see
If you had to do it all over again what would you do
different?
Since there was no motels would you have just got on a
plane and left?
| |
| Tony Wesley 2005-10-05, 11:21 pm |
| > "Tony Wesley" <tonywesley@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1128486028.667986.230780@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> If you only want to keep the contents of your refridgerator and your
> freezer, there is a lower-cost solution with much less effort than a
> generator. Get a second freezer and fill it with ice in small enough
> containers as to make easy to move. [...]
> That gives you over 300 pounds of ice to get you through a power
> failure.
Solar Flare wrote:
> When your freezer thaws you will also have 300 pounds of thawed ice in a
> second freezer
Not at all. The ice is "in small enough containers as to make easy to
move", so it's not in the second freezer. It's in the first freezer
and refrigerator. As it melts, it absorbs those precious BTUs.
It will work great in the fridge. The freezer is problematic, since
you want to keep things below freezing. Salt water would do the trick.
| |
| Solar Flare 2005-10-05, 11:21 pm |
| Do you return it to the ice freezer again to keep it cold too?
"Tony Wesley" <tonywesley@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128561686.921821.148470@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> "Tony Wesley" <tonywesley@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1128486028.667986.230780@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> If you only want to keep the contents of your refridgerator and your
> freezer, there is a lower-cost solution with much less effort than a
> generator. Get a second freezer and fill it with ice in small enough
> containers as to make easy to move. [...]
> That gives you over 300 pounds of ice to get you through a power
> failure.
Solar Flare wrote:
> When your freezer thaws you will also have 300 pounds of thawed ice in a
> second freezer
Not at all. The ice is "in small enough containers as to make easy to
move", so it's not in the second freezer. It's in the first freezer
and refrigerator. As it melts, it absorbs those precious BTUs.
It will work great in the fridge. The freezer is problematic, since
you want to keep things below freezing. Salt water would do the trick.
| |
| MaryL 2005-10-05, 11:21 pm |
|
<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:jqm8k1l9imd0d4v0sfi3l285pa4eepel8l@4ax.com...
> "MaryL" <carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER>
> wrote:
>
>
> I see
>
> If you had to do it all over again what would you do
> different?
>
> Since there was no motels would you have just got on a
> plane and left?
No, I would have done just what I did this time -- suffer through a week of
intense heat with no electricity, which means no air conditioning and no
lights (except for the last 2 days, when I stayed overnight with friends).
I got pretty good at dressing by flashlight, but I don't recommend it.
MaryL
| |
| Too_Many_Tools 2005-10-06, 1:21 am |
| Good discussion....especially considering the neighbors with no power.
One never has so many friends until you have something that they want.
Rarely is your act of kindness remembered...or returned.
Sometimes the best preparation is a standing reservation hundreds of
miles away.
TMT
| |
| Harry Chickpea 2005-10-06, 1:21 am |
| "MaryL" <carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>
><me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>news:jqm8k1l9imd0d4v0sfi3l285pa4eepel8l@4ax.com...
>
>No, I would have done just what I did this time -- suffer through a week of
>intense heat with no electricity, which means no air conditioning and no
>lights (except for the last 2 days, when I stayed overnight with friends).
>I got pretty good at dressing by flashlight, but I don't recommend it.
>
>MaryL
>
The intense heat can be mitigated a few ways.
Very small fans can be powered by batteries or solar. Froogle google
personal fan or battery fan with a price range of $2 to $25 to get an
idea of what is available. The trick is to have a mess of the proper
size battery on hand.
Going a little larger, Petsmart has a cooling fan for cages and crates
for less than $15. That self-contained 12 volt fan runs for up to 100
hours on 2 "D" batteries.
For something a leven larger, go to a good auto supply store and look
for a 12 volt fan that plugs into a cigarette lighter. With a fan
like this and a car battery, you can have a bigger breeze or a couple
of fans.
Personal misters work in dry climates, as do pump-up insecticide
sprayers with the spray turned to the fine setting. Arranging a
cheesecloth in front of a fan and dripping water onto it can cool the
air.
The ice that is given out in disasters can be placed in a ziplock bag,
and the bag laid on a washcloth or cloth that rests on the skin. The
trick is to not let the skin temp go below about 60 degrees F to
continue the cooling effect without constricting the blood vessels or
causing frostbite. When I'm mowing in the hot sun, I stick a sandwich
size ziplock bag full of ice in a hat. I've enough hair that I have
the proper amount of insulation, and my head is measurably cooler.
Witch hazel and rubbing alcohol can also be used to help cool a pad or
washcloth, even in humid climates.
| |
| Vaughn 2005-10-06, 8:21 am |
|
"MaryL" <carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
news:0h%0f.2550$xE1.215@okepread07...
>
> I got pretty good at dressing by flashlight, but I don't recommend it.
Treat yourself to one of those fluorescent lanterns. A set of batteries
can last up to 20 hours and you have almost a normal amount of light. Coleman
makes several varieties.
Vaughn
| |
|
| Vaughn wrote:
> "samc" <remprefix.samuel.7scrubthis9@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:4342df8e_3@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>
>
>
> Actually, I saw nothing about a battery. But regardless, there are many
> reasons why PV makes little sense for backup power. I like PV and have a modest
> system myself, but PV makes damn expensive, complicated, nonportable,
> storm-vulnerable backup power. Also, where I live, storms are the biggest
> factor that cause power failures, yet clouds often accompany storms...giving the
> least power just when you need it the most. I find that generators are a far
> more practical solution for 99.9% of normal domestic backup power situations.
> There is a good reason why you find generators in Home Depot and no PV.
>
> Vaughn
>
>
yes you are right , arfter I posted I realised panels will take most
weather but huracanes as long as nothing hits it or thay get ripped off
mountings so I had an idear : would it be posable (not cheap) to use
rollor shutter doors to protect the install ?
| |
|
|
"Vaughn" <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.fake.net> wrote in message
news:T_61f.113840$qY1.90176@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "MaryL" <carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
> news:0h%0f.2550$xE1.215@okepread07...
>
> Treat yourself to one of those fluorescent lanterns. A set of
> batteries can last up to 20 hours and you have almost a normal amount of
> light. Coleman makes several varieties.
>
> Vaughn
>
>
>
>
I do have one of those, made by Ray-O-Vac. I liked it a lot because I
could use it more like a table lamp (although much more limited in light
output). However, it eventually stopped lighting. Now, I need to determine
if I need to replace the batteries or the fluourescent tube. I suspect it's
the batteries, but the base that opens seems to need some type of tool
(again, something I need to check out). I have already to decided to get a
couple more of this type because they really are much more functional in
extended power outages than flashlights.
MaryL
| |
| Ron Rosenfeld 2005-10-06, 10:21 am |
| On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 00:40:13 -0500, "MaryL"
<carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>I live in East Texas, and I lost the contents of my refrigerator and freezer
>for the second time in 2 years (this time from Hurricane Rita -- which also
>caused a power outage for 1 week, so air conditioning was off in all this
>heat). Can anyone give me some advice about home generators -- cost,
>safety, ease of use, etc.? I would need to set it up myself if I ever lost
>power, and I have some arthritis in my fingers. Therefore, I think I would
>need to get one with an electric (battery-powered) switch instead of one
>that has to be "cranked up." I read about several deaths from carbon
>monoxide poisoning caused by an generator, so I know it would need to be
>wheeled outside, and I understand that appliances would have to be connected
>to it by long extension cords.
>
>How heavy are they and how difficult to wheel around? (There are *none*
>available in this community right now, so I haven't had a chance to actually
>look at one, but I would like to be prepared "next time.") I know they come
>in different sizes. I was thinking of one that would handle an upright
>freezer, a large double-door refrigerator, a lamp, and a fan. The house has
>central air, so that is out of the question, but I would like to get a fan
>that is powerful enough to make life more livable if I lose power for an
>extended period again.
>
>Thanks for any help!
>MaryL
>
Mary,
How much do you want to spend for this?
Depending on how much power you require, for about $3,000 - $10,000 plus
electrician installation, you can get a good quality, liquid cooled
automatic system that uses either natural gas or propane for fuel. If you
don't have natural gas, you can have a propane tank full of enough fuel to
handle your projected longest outage. This price would include an
automatic transfer switch, which can regularly "exercise" the generator, as
well as start it up automatically when there is a power failure. You will
have to change (or have a small engine tech come in to do it) the oil from
time to time. The system sits outside in a sound dampening box that looks
like an air conditioner.
See www.norwall.com for some ideas.
-- ron (off the grid in Downeast Maine)
| |
| Ulysses 2005-10-06, 12:21 pm |
|
"MaryL" <carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
news:ha81f.2579$xE1.15@okepread07...
>
> "Vaughn" <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.fake.net> wrote in message
> news:T_61f.113840$qY1.90176@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> I do have one of those, made by Ray-O-Vac. I liked it a lot because I
> could use it more like a table lamp (although much more limited in light
> output). However, it eventually stopped lighting. Now, I need to
determine
> if I need to replace the batteries or the fluourescent tube. I suspect
it's
> the batteries, but the base that opens seems to need some type of tool
> (again, something I need to check out). I have already to decided to get
a
> couple more of this type because they really are much more functional in
> extended power outages than flashlights.
>
> MaryL
>
>
I had (well, still have) 3 battery-powered fluorescent lanterns. I do not
use them because the batteries wore out and they are expensive to replace.
What I now use is flashlights that have a Xenon bulb AND a CCFL fluorescent
tube similar to this one on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/3-in-1-Combo-Ar...ight_W0QQitemZ5
244083744QQcategoryZ106987QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
They use AA batteries (4). You can use alkalines or rechargeables. I use
NiMh with mine. The tubes have a life expectency of over 10,000 hours.
These flashlights can be stood up and used like a lantern or used as a
spotlight (just not for very long). They put out almost as much light as a
much larger fluorescent lantern and weigh very little. They also fit nicely
into car cupholders to bring along for emergencies. When the batteries get
low they still continue to put out usable light for at least an hour. The
ones I have do not have the LEDs too but I only paid about $8 each for them.
Shop around. These things are great and I don't know why I can't find very
many for sale now. They used to be available from many sources.
| |
| zenboom 2005-10-07, 8:21 am |
|
"Ron Rosenfeld" <ronrosenfeld@nospam.org> wrote in message
news:n76ak194bshmk8uhvfrsafl2g953d0qotg@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 00:40:13 -0500, "MaryL"
> <carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
>
freezer[color=darkred]
also[color=darkred]
lost[color=darkred]
would[color=darkred]
connected[color=darkred]
actually[color=darkred]
come[color=darkred]
has[color=darkred]
fan[color=darkred]
>
> Mary,
>
> How much do you want to spend for this?
>
> Depending on how much power you require, for about $3,000 - $10,000 plus
> electrician installation, you can get a good quality, liquid cooled
> automatic system that uses either natural gas or propane for fuel. If you
> don't have natural gas, you can have a propane tank full of enough fuel to
> handle your projected longest outage. This price would include an
> automatic transfer switch, which can regularly "exercise" the generator,
as
> well as start it up automatically when there is a power failure. You will
> have to change (or have a small engine tech come in to do it) the oil from
> time to time. The system sits outside in a sound dampening box that looks
> like an air conditioner.
>
> See www.norwall.com for some ideas.
>
>
> -- ron (off the grid in Downeast Maine)
hey! what about a gas fridge & freezer?
| |
| Ron Rosenfeld 2005-10-07, 10:21 am |
| On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 17:03:50 +0200, "zenboom" <?signal.ds?@?bluebottle.com?>
wrote:
>
>"Ron Rosenfeld" <ronrosenfeld@nospam.org> wrote in message
>news:n76ak194bshmk8uhvfrsafl2g953d0qotg@4ax.com...
>freezer
>also
>lost
>would
>connected
>actually
>come
>has
>fan
>as
>
>hey! what about a gas fridge & freezer?
>
What about it?
How does that answer the OP's question about the feasibility of a
generator?
I think they are useful for off-grid homes that are minimizing (or
eliminating) their use of electricity. But when I was looking, they were
quite limited in size and features. The cost of a setup equivalent to what
our electric refrigerator will store would have been well over $3,000. And
their use would be limited to just food storage.
With an on-grid home in a hot climate, especially since the OP noted that
her air conditioning was also not functioning, it would seem to me that, if
affordable, a backup whole-house generator would be more useful.
-- ron (off the grid in Downeast Maine)
| |
| Crazy Banana 2005-10-10, 1:21 am |
| On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 17:34:47 -0500, "Arnold Walker"
<arnoldwalker@consolidated.net> wrote:
>
>"samc" <remprefix.samuel.7scrubthis9@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:43424eff$1_3@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>freezer
>also
>this
>lost
>would
>connected
>actually
>come
>has
>fan
>Living in East Texas as a steam and diesel fanatic....that is a hard
>question in a sense.
>For the short term outage ,your neighbors went down to Lowe's and got a gas
>generator.
>good for 24/7 of about 3wks to a month for $600.00.
>As to me....I went steam(wood fired chips like the Temple,
>International,and Champion plants
>near your house...no matter what part of East Texas you are in.) off gird
>and thinking about a
>diesel backup generator.Mother nature has sort generated a supply of fuel
>everywhere for me.
>And folks will even, pay me to haul it off at the moment.Don't know where I
>am going put the surplus .....
>
>On vehicles did you notice that there was diesel all thru Rita when the gas
>pumps were dry.
>And when hearing folks waiting upwards of 12hrs in the initial rush from
>Houston/Beaumont.
>Figured it might be nice to know as well.
>
>
>
>----== Posted via droptable.com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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Why not look into a low speed Diesel Engine Generator.
diesel engine will run multi fuel and low speed engine means
years of operation. some guy on ebay is selling it
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-10-KW-HEAD-...1QQcmdZViewItem
|
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