Alternative Power sources - CF Bulbs In Enclosures

Author

CF Bulbs In Enclosures

Antipodean Bucket Farmer

2005-10-04, 6:21 pm

Hi, Everybody,

My understanding is that compact florescent bulbs
shouldn't be placed in recessed ceiling fixtures(?) I
guess because the heat build-up will degrade them, or
because of a possible fire hazard(?)

Anyway, I have an outdoor light socket that is pointing
straight down from an overhead surface. There is a
screw-on glass globe cover, maybe 8 or 10 inches
diameter (of the globe, with the screw-on diameter
maybe half that.)

Would it be a bad idea to put a CF bulb in this? OTOH,
I could simply leave the glass globe cover off
(sacrificing appearance for efficiency.) It is a
somewhat sheltered area, where the bulb won't get
direct rain, but would have some moisture and wind
funneling through the alley.

Thanks...

--
Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
http://www.cardreport.com/
Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum

Vaughn

2005-10-04, 7:21 pm

"Antipodean Bucket Farmer" <usenet2005@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG> wrote in message
news:MPG.1dac8893fbcd4ca698996d@news.xtra.co.nz...
> Hi, Everybody,
>
> My understanding is that compact florescent bulbs
> shouldn't be placed in recessed ceiling fixtures(?) I
> guess because the heat build-up will degrade them, or
> because of a possible fire hazard(?)

The best advice that anyone could possible give you is to read the package
before you buy the lamp. It should tell you about any limitations in its use.

That said, it is difficult to understand how a CF (which produces only a
tiny amount of heat compared to an incandescent bulb) could be a problem in any
normal light fixture. I have been using two CF bulbs for several years now in
sealed porch light fixtures with no failures. Also, right over my head is a
"100 watt equiv" CF lamp inverted under a ceiling fan and sealed in a class
globe. I have had no problems. Further, I five recessed ceiling fixtures that
I use reflector-type CF lamps in, also with no issues.

Vaughn

Eric Sears

2005-10-04, 7:21 pm

Greetings

I had the same sort of light fixtures at a house from which I have
just moved - about 8 inch diam screw-on glass spheres.
I figured that with a 12 watt bulb (all that would fit in it 6 years
ago - they didn't have the spiral ones here then), there would not be
more than about 4 or 5 watts of heat. The bulb was fine over that time
and is still there. Since the light fitting was on cement board (the
soffit), I figured there was no great fire risk.
At the front door, where I wanted more light I used a 20 watt and just
left the glass cover off. Brilliant light and never had to replace it.
Its probably true that the 20 watt ones would get pretty hot in an
enclosure - and it would shorten the life of the electronics at least!

Eric Sears

On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 13:40:43 -0700, Antipodean Bucket Farmer
<usenet2005@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG> wrote:

>Hi, Everybody,
>
>My understanding is that compact florescent bulbs
>shouldn't be placed in recessed ceiling fixtures(?) I
>guess because the heat build-up will degrade them, or
>because of a possible fire hazard(?)
>
>Anyway, I have an outdoor light socket that is pointing
>straight down from an overhead surface. There is a
>screw-on glass globe cover, maybe 8 or 10 inches
>diameter (of the globe, with the screw-on diameter
>maybe half that.)
>
>Would it be a bad idea to put a CF bulb in this? OTOH,
>I could simply leave the glass globe cover off
>(sacrificing appearance for efficiency.) It is a
>somewhat sheltered area, where the bulb won't get
>direct rain, but would have some moisture and wind
>funneling through the alley.
>
>Thanks...
>
>
>--
>Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
>http://www.cardreport.com/
>Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum

JoeSixPack

2005-10-04, 8:21 pm

"Antipodean Bucket Farmer" <usenet2005@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG> wrote in message
news:MPG.1dac8893fbcd4ca698996d@news.xtra.co.nz...
> Hi, Everybody,
>
> My understanding is that compact florescent bulbs
> shouldn't be placed in recessed ceiling fixtures(?) I
> guess because the heat build-up will degrade them, or
> because of a possible fire hazard(?)
>
> Anyway, I have an outdoor light socket that is pointing
> straight down from an overhead surface. There is a
> screw-on glass globe cover, maybe 8 or 10 inches
> diameter (of the globe, with the screw-on diameter
> maybe half that.)
>
> Would it be a bad idea to put a CF bulb in this? OTOH,
> I could simply leave the glass globe cover off
> (sacrificing appearance for efficiency.) It is a
> somewhat sheltered area, where the bulb won't get
> direct rain, but would have some moisture and wind
> funneling through the alley.
>
> Thanks...

What heat? These things run much cooler than incandescents. The warmer the
CF bulb, the brighter the output, up to 38C (100F). They usually run cooler
than that.
http://irc.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/practice/lig3_E.html
I doubt your enclosure will do anythng but bring the bulbs up to near the
optimum operating temperature.

Robert Morein

2005-10-04, 10:21 pm

"Vaughn" <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.fake.net> wrote in message
news:htC0f.108944$qY1.50687@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "Antipodean Bucket Farmer" <usenet2005@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1dac8893fbcd4ca698996d@news.xtra.co.nz...
>
> The best advice that anyone could possible give you is to read the
package
> before you buy the lamp. It should tell you about any limitations in its
use.
>
> That said, it is difficult to understand how a CF (which produces
only a
> tiny amount of heat compared to an incandescent bulb) could be a problem
in any
> normal light fixture.

I had a "150 equivalent" fail in three weeks, no enclosure, mounted
inverted.
Chinese components can be quite frail.

Robert Morein

2005-10-05, 1:21 am

"JoeSixPack" <olegp@telus.net> wrote in message
news:cyD0f.1189$y_1.1003@edtnps89...
>
> "Antipodean Bucket Farmer" <usenet2005@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1dac8893fbcd4ca698996d@news.xtra.co.nz...
>
> What heat? These things run much cooler than incandescents. The warmer
the
> CF bulb, the brighter the output, up to 38C (100F). They usually run
cooler
> than that.
> http://irc.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/practice/lig3_E.html
> I doubt your enclosure will do anythng but bring the bulbs up to near the
> optimum operating temperature.
>
The electronics in the bases of these things are very marginally cooled.

Anthony Matonak

2005-10-05, 2:21 am

Antipodean Bucket Farmer wrote:
....
> Anyway, I have an outdoor light socket that is pointing
> straight down from an overhead surface. There is a
> screw-on glass globe cover, maybe 8 or 10 inches
> diameter (of the globe, with the screw-on diameter
> maybe half that.)
>
> Would it be a bad idea to put a CF bulb in this?
....

It depends on the CF Bulb, they are not all equal.
If they are not built to withstand the temperatures
in enclosed fixtures then they will (most likely)
display on the package something like "Do not use
in enclosed fixtures".

Home Depot (a common home improvement store in these
parts) sells a 6 pack of 14W (roughly 60W equivalent)
CF bulbs for around $9 under the brand name "Commercial
Electric". These work in enclosed fixtures and say so
on the package. They also start nearly instantly.

I've been using these in my own enclosed fixtures for
a couple of years now and have not had any problems.

Anthony

Richard P.

2005-10-05, 3:21 am

Yes, officially that's true, there is a "possible" fire hazard when used in
sealed fixtures. Read the package as each brand and model is different and
some can be used in sealed fixtures. Their concern is heat build-up. In 5
years of electrical hardware retail, I have only seen 4 CF's (Sylvania
"Pricemark" label) actually melt down so-to-speak. They were used in
hallways of an apartment building and on 24 hrs a day. Interestingly the
other 180 CF's he purchased didn't suffer the same problem.

My own personal experience is that there is no problem using CF's in sealed
outdoor fixtures. The only concern is in cold environments where it could
take a few moments to come to full brightness. The coldest I have taken
mine down to is -9C and they were at full brightness after about a minute or
so (Sylvania brand). I have them in an enclosed 6 inch globe fixture.

By the way, I used a Sylvania 15 watt CF in an enclosed 6 inch globe ceiling
fixture in my dorm room last year. If I left it on for 5 or 6 hours or more
it got pretty darn hot... hot enough to be concerned. But I found that if I
used it for less than that time.. then I had no problem. And the bulb
didn't show any side effects, in fact I am still using it in a swing-arm
desk lamp right now. I've had the bulb just over 3 years.

Hope this helped..

"Antipodean Bucket Farmer" wrote
> My understanding is that compact florescent bulbs
> shouldn't be placed in recessed ceiling fixtures(?) I
> guess because the heat build-up will degrade them, or
> because of a possible fire hazard(?)

Nottingham

2005-10-05, 10:21 am

I have 2@15W/ea outdoor CF in similar enclosures (glass "jar" over bulb).

Have been working for 2+ years without a problem. Temp between +-30 C.
Operates on a timer.

"Antipodean Bucket Farmer" <usenet2005@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG> wrote in message
news:MPG.1dac8893fbcd4ca698996d@news.xtra.co.nz...
> Hi, Everybody,
>
> My understanding is that compact florescent bulbs
> shouldn't be placed in recessed ceiling fixtures(?) I
> guess because the heat build-up will degrade them, or
> because of a possible fire hazard(?)
>
> Anyway, I have an outdoor light socket that is pointing
> straight down from an overhead surface. There is a
> screw-on glass globe cover, maybe 8 or 10 inches
> diameter (of the globe, with the screw-on diameter
> maybe half that.)
>
> Would it be a bad idea to put a CF bulb in this? OTOH,
> I could simply leave the glass globe cover off
> (sacrificing appearance for efficiency.) It is a
> somewhat sheltered area, where the bulb won't get
> direct rain, but would have some moisture and wind
> funneling through the alley.
>
> Thanks...
>
>
> --
> Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
> http://www.cardreport.com/
> Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum

Nottingham

2005-10-05, 10:21 am

Forgot to mention - I used these to replace 2x100W halogen floods - these
guys failed every 1-3 months. Best replacement ever. Email me if you want
the brand name on the CF (I think phillips? gottem from the Borg) as I'll
have to get the ladder out to see for sure.

"Nottingham" <mikeNOSPAMster.d2@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:teudnY1b6MASW97eRVn-rQ@golden.net...
> I have 2@15W/ea outdoor CF in similar enclosures (glass "jar" over bulb).
>
> Have been working for 2+ years without a problem. Temp between +-30 C.
> Operates on a timer.
>
>
> "Antipodean Bucket Farmer" <usenet2005@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1dac8893fbcd4ca698996d@news.xtra.co.nz...
>
>

Kent Hoult

2005-10-05, 1:21 pm

I've had ones like this on my porch for the last 5 years with no problems.
The directions listed them as OK for sealed fixtures and any mounting
direction.

I only "problem" is that in the winter, they start out dim, and take awhile
to
brighten all the way. If it's in single digits, they look like night lights
when they
come on, and take 5-10 minutes to reach full brighness.

-Kent-

"Antipodean Bucket Farmer" <usenet2005@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG> wrote in message
news:MPG.1dac8893fbcd4ca698996d@news.xtra.co.nz...
> Hi, Everybody,
>
> My understanding is that compact florescent bulbs
> shouldn't be placed in recessed ceiling fixtures(?) I
> guess because the heat build-up will degrade them, or
> because of a possible fire hazard(?)
>
> Anyway, I have an outdoor light socket that is pointing
> straight down from an overhead surface. There is a
> screw-on glass globe cover, maybe 8 or 10 inches
> diameter (of the globe, with the screw-on diameter
> maybe half that.)
>
> Would it be a bad idea to put a CF bulb in this? OTOH,
> I could simply leave the glass globe cover off
> (sacrificing appearance for efficiency.) It is a
> somewhat sheltered area, where the bulb won't get
> direct rain, but would have some moisture and wind
> funneling through the alley.
>
> Thanks...
>
>
> --
> Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
> http://www.cardreport.com/
> Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum

Jim Baber

2005-10-26, 10:21 pm

Jim Baber responded:
I know I am joining in late, but, I have to say I have been
running 2 of the 100 W equivalent 24 W CFL bulbs that are designed to
allow dimming in the two ceiling fans I have in my family room (where my
computers reside). These bulbs are both hanging down (base up) in
enclosing 10" glass globes, and are generally on 12 to 18 hours a day.
The ambient temperature varies from a maximum 82 F. down to a minimum
of 57 F. (I actually log this @ 5 min. internals) and these lights were
installed on 18 Aug. 2004 when I upgraded the fan controllers.

I have been very pleased with CFL in general. These seem to stand up to
the fan vibration very well as well as the heat. a 60 W incandescent
"FAN" bulb would typically last 40 to 50 days before breaking the
filament at best. (Appliance bulbs maybe a little longer, but they were
too dim).

By the way the CFL bulbs I have (about 30 including other Dimmable and
some 3 way socket styles) don't seem to bother my X10 stuff but I do
have large capacitors to correct my power factor on the entire house's
240 VAC input and I also am producing as much as 10 kW of 240 VAC from
my solar PV system.

One rather unusual use of one of the 3 way CFLs is in a lamp by my chair
in the family room. It is plugged into the same 1500 VA UPS from APC as
my INOGEN ONE oxygen concentrator. I use this as a backup for grid
power so I can still breathe when some idiot hits a power pole with out
sitting in the dark. It will supply my oxygen and the light for almost
12 hours without any help from Pacific Gas & Electric.

Antipodean Bucket Farmer wrote:

>Hi, Everybody,
>
>My understanding is that compact florescent bulbs
>shouldn't be placed in recessed ceiling fixtures(?) I
>guess because the heat build-up will degrade them, or
>because of a possible fire hazard(?)
>
>Anyway, I have an outdoor light socket that is pointing
>straight down from an overhead surface. There is a
>screw-on glass globe cover, maybe 8 or 10 inches
>diameter (of the globe, with the screw-on diameter
>maybe half that.)
>
>Would it be a bad idea to put a CF bulb in this? OTOH,
>I could simply leave the glass globe cover off
>(sacrificing appearance for efficiency.) It is a
>somewhat sheltered area, where the bulb won't get
>direct rain, but would have some moisture and wind
>funneling through the alley.
>
>Thanks...
>
>
>
>

LinkBot