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Home > Archive > Alternative Power sources > October 2005 > Dual use auto: cogen generator + transportation
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| Author |
Dual use auto: cogen generator + transportation
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| I've seen many posts from people using auto engines to generate
electricity, but I haven't been able to find out if it's possible to
find out the feasability (pros/cons) of generating electricity
(grid-tied) with a diesel automobile while keeping it driveable.
I'm thinking of doing an SVO/WVO conversion on either an Jetta or old
Pickup and would like to have it be dual use. Transportation by day,
generator by night.
What would this look like? In my simple mind (hehe) I just envision
replacing the alternator with a higher capacity one, installing an
isolator, getting a battery or two for a battery bank, and getting a
grid tied inverter to feed the system. But I don't have a clue as to
how the components would interact or if such low RPMs (auto basically
at idle all night) would cause problems, or if there load would be load
issues.
Thanks
Aaron
additional keywords:
biodiesel austin texas
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| JoeSixPack 2005-10-11, 11:21 am |
|
"Aaron" <Aaron.A.Anderson@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1129029182.003496.302670@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I've seen many posts from people using auto engines to generate
> electricity, but I haven't been able to find out if it's possible to
> find out the feasability (pros/cons) of generating electricity
> (grid-tied) with a diesel automobile while keeping it driveable.
>
> I'm thinking of doing an SVO/WVO conversion on either an Jetta or old
> Pickup and would like to have it be dual use. Transportation by day,
> generator by night.
>
> What would this look like? In my simple mind (hehe) I just envision
> replacing the alternator with a higher capacity one, installing an
> isolator, getting a battery or two for a battery bank, and getting a
> grid tied inverter to feed the system. But I don't have a clue as to
> how the components would interact or if such low RPMs (auto basically
> at idle all night) would cause problems, or if there load would be load
> issues.
>
> Thanks
>
> Aaron
>
Hard to understand how this thing could be feasible. Do you expect the cost
of fuel to be recouped from selling to the grid? Have you worked that out?
Also, do you want to increase maintenance by 10 times? I don't get this at
all.
| |
| Steve Spence 2005-10-11, 11:21 am |
| JoeSixPack wrote:
> "Aaron" <Aaron.A.Anderson@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1129029182.003496.302670@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> Hard to understand how this thing could be feasible. Do you expect the cost
> of fuel to be recouped from selling to the grid? Have you worked that out?
> Also, do you want to increase maintenance by 10 times? I don't get this at
> all.
>
>
We did this at our off-grid home with a vw rabbit before we got our
diesel generator. Used our rabbit to top off the house batteries. Rabbit
runs on WVO. I'm not aware of any utilities that will let you backfeed
gen power to the grid.
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| Dave Hinz 2005-10-11, 12:21 pm |
| On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:11:01 -0400, Steve Spence <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote:
> We did this at our off-grid home with a vw rabbit before we got our
> diesel generator. Used our rabbit to top off the house batteries. Rabbit
> runs on WVO.
Sounds like a good idea - then just divert the radiator into a loop so
you can harvest that heat too?
> I'm not aware of any utilities that will let you backfeed
> gen power to the grid.
I wasn't aware that there were any who wouldn't. Isn't that what a grid
tie invertor is for, for instance?
| |
| Steve Spence 2005-10-11, 12:21 pm |
| Dave Hinz wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:11:01 -0400, Steve Spence <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> Sounds like a good idea - then just divert the radiator into a loop so
> you can harvest that heat too?
you can, but that reduces the ease of driving away ...
>
>
>
>
> I wasn't aware that there were any who wouldn't. Isn't that what a grid
> tie invertor is for, for instance?
Grid tie inverters yes, but the netmetering contracts vary from pv or
wind only to pv and wind, and rarely microhydro or engine generators.
It's political, not electro-mechanical.
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| Dave Hinz 2005-10-11, 12:21 pm |
| On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:23:47 -0400, Steve Spence <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote:
> Dave Hinz wrote:
[color=darkred]
> you can, but that reduces the ease of driving away ...
Meh...quick-connect couplings have been around for, what, a century now?
[color=darkred]
[color=darkred]
> Grid tie inverters yes, but the netmetering contracts vary from pv or
> wind only to pv and wind, and rarely microhydro or engine generators.
> It's political, not electro-mechanical.
Hm, I thought in Wisconsin they just plain had to buy it back. Me, I
wouldn't use this sort of thing for that, I'd use it during on-peak
rates instead of their power, to keep my batteries toped up should they
need it. They can get fuel at least as cheaply as I can, after all.
The benefit is when my fuel is less than the same energy from them,
which for me is during on-peak rate hours.
| |
| Steve Spence 2005-10-11, 12:21 pm |
| Dave Hinz wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:23:47 -0400, Steve Spence <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Meh...quick-connect couplings have been around for, what, a century now?
yes, that's possible.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hm, I thought in Wisconsin they just plain had to buy it back. Me, I
> wouldn't use this sort of thing for that, I'd use it during on-peak
> rates instead of their power, to keep my batteries toped up should they
> need it. They can get fuel at least as cheaply as I can, after all.
> The benefit is when my fuel is less than the same energy from them,
> which for me is during on-peak rate hours.
>
>
Our fuel is virtually free, it's just waste veggie oil. Comes out to
about $0.04 / kWh or so with maintenance.
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| SQLit 2005-10-11, 12:21 pm |
|
"Aaron" <Aaron.A.Anderson@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1129029182.003496.302670@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I've seen many posts from people using auto engines to generate
> electricity, but I haven't been able to find out if it's possible to
> find out the feasability (pros/cons) of generating electricity
> (grid-tied) with a diesel automobile while keeping it driveable.
>
> I'm thinking of doing an SVO/WVO conversion on either an Jetta or old
> Pickup and would like to have it be dual use. Transportation by day,
> generator by night.
>
> What would this look like? In my simple mind (hehe) I just envision
> replacing the alternator with a higher capacity one, installing an
> isolator, getting a battery or two for a battery bank, and getting a
> grid tied inverter to feed the system. But I don't have a clue as to
> how the components would interact or if such low RPMs (auto basically
> at idle all night) would cause problems, or if there load would be load
> issues.
>
> Thanks
>
> Aaron
This would be impractical. Having my car on a set of bearings that would
allow it to generate power is silly at best. Your putting miles on the car,
adding maintenance, break downs and god for bid the contraption your
building failed and your car decided to visit your bedroom some night.
Buy a generator.
| |
| Aaron 2005-10-11, 12:21 pm |
| Feasable due to the large amount of WVO I can get from some local
country resaurants...they love their fried foods.
Speaking of maintenance...if the car is still under warranty and under
mileage, will the dealership know actual engine time?
JoeSixPack wrote:
>
> Hard to understand how this thing could be feasible. Do you expect the cost
> of fuel to be recouped from selling to the grid? Have you worked that out?
> Also, do you want to increase maintenance by 10 times? I don't get this at
> all.
| |
| Dave Hinz 2005-10-11, 12:21 pm |
| On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 07:32:20 -0700, SQLit <sqlit@qwest.net> wrote:
>
> "Aaron" <Aaron.A.Anderson@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1129029182.003496.302670@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
[color=darkred]
> This would be impractical. Having my car on a set of bearings that would
> allow it to generate power is silly at best.
Yes, it would be. It's also nothing to do with his suggestion of using
a different alternator in the car, while parked, to get the power.
> Your putting miles on the car,
No, he'd be putting hours on the engine. And diesels are happy to run
at low load for long periods of time.
> adding maintenance, break downs and god for bid the contraption your
> building failed and your car decided to visit your bedroom some night.
Hard to do if it's in park.
> Buy a generator.
He already has one; it's shaped like a car.
Dave Hinz
| |
| Steve Spence 2005-10-11, 12:21 pm |
| SQLit wrote:
> "Aaron" <Aaron.A.Anderson@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1129029182.003496.302670@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> This would be impractical. Having my car on a set of bearings that would
> allow it to generate power is silly at best. Your putting miles on the car,
> adding maintenance, break downs and god for bid the contraption your
> building failed and your car decided to visit your bedroom some night.
> Buy a generator.
>
>
bearings? why would the car visit your bedroom? it's just a portable
generator.
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| Dave Hinz 2005-10-11, 12:21 pm |
| On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:39:56 -0400, Steve Spence <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote:
> SQLit wrote:
[color=darkred]
> bearings? why would the car visit your bedroom? it's just a portable
> generator.
He was thinking some sort of a roller-setup to get the power after it's
gone through the extra losses of the transmission and the rest of the
drivetrain, I think.
| |
|
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| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2005-10-11, 2:21 pm |
| A lot of old cars fail the PA state inspection for rust, so they are only
worth $50-100 for junk, even if they are in running condition. I've often
thought about buying one and removing the hood and parking it behind the
house with a belt-driven generator on a adjstable tripod above the engine.
Car engines wear out soon quickly in cogeneration, but an adjustable tripod
would allow replacing the junk car easily with another when that happened.
Nick
| |
| Steve Spence 2005-10-11, 2:21 pm |
| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
> A lot of old cars fail the PA state inspection for rust, so they are only
> worth $50-100 for junk, even if they are in running condition. I've often
> thought about buying one and removing the hood and parking it behind the
> house with a belt-driven generator on a adjstable tripod above the engine.
> Car engines wear out soon quickly in cogeneration, but an adjustable tripod
> would allow replacing the junk car easily with another when that happened.
>
> Nick
>
I bolted a 2kw belt drive pinco on top of my vw engine, but a governor
was a problem.
dc is a whole lot easier.
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| Bruce in Alaska 2005-10-11, 3:21 pm |
| In article <1129029182.003496.302670@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"Aaron" <Aaron.A.Anderson@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've seen many posts from people using auto engines to generate
> electricity, but I haven't been able to find out if it's possible to
> find out the feasability (pros/cons) of generating electricity
> (grid-tied) with a diesel automobile while keeping it driveable.
>
> I'm thinking of doing an SVO/WVO conversion on either an Jetta or old
> Pickup and would like to have it be dual use. Transportation by day,
> generator by night.
>
> What would this look like? In my simple mind (hehe) I just envision
> replacing the alternator with a higher capacity one, installing an
> isolator, getting a battery or two for a battery bank, and getting a
> grid tied inverter to feed the system. But I don't have a clue as to
> how the components would interact or if such low RPMs (auto basically
> at idle all night) would cause problems, or if there load would be load
> issues.
>
> Thanks
>
> Aaron
>
>
> additional keywords:
> biodiesel austin texas
>
One thought that comes to mind on this subject. Years ago I had a
1956 Dodge Powerwagon with a PTO winch and drive system. When we
drove it up to the mine on weekends, we attached the PTO Driveline to
an external Low Rpm (650 or so) geared 20Kw generator, and set the
governer on the Flathead six cyl engine for 1800 Rpm. This system
generated all the remote power for our mining operations. When
we were ready to leave and all packed up, we just uncoupled the PTO
Driveline, backed the truck out of the shed, and shifted the PTO out of
gear and drove home.
Bruce in alaska
--
add a <2> before @
| |
| JoeSixPack 2005-10-11, 11:21 pm |
|
"Bruce in Alaska" <bruceg@btpost.net> wrote in message
news:bruceg-D7353C.09414611102005@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
>
> One thought that comes to mind on this subject. Years ago I had a
> 1956 Dodge Powerwagon with a PTO winch and drive system. When we
> drove it up to the mine on weekends, we attached the PTO Driveline to
> an external Low Rpm (650 or so) geared 20Kw generator, and set the
> governer on the Flathead six cyl engine for 1800 Rpm. This system
> generated all the remote power for our mining operations. When
> we were ready to leave and all packed up, we just uncoupled the PTO
> Driveline, backed the truck out of the shed, and shifted the PTO out of
> gear and drove home.
>
>
> Bruce in alaska
One word comes to mind after reading this: "treadmill"
| |
| andre_54005@yahoo.com 2005-10-12, 11:21 am |
|
JoeSixPack wrote:
> "Bruce in Alaska" <bruceg@btpost.net> wrote in message
> news:bruceg-D7353C.09414611102005@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
>
>
> One word comes to mind after reading this: "treadmill"
After thinking about it for several minutes, I can not come up with any
way that a PTO driven generator would remind me of a treadmill. Maybe
another six pack would help clear things up.
___________
Andre' B.
| |
| Dave Hinz 2005-10-12, 12:21 pm |
| On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 02:08:39 GMT, JoeSixPack <olegp@telus.net> wrote:
>
> "Bruce in Alaska" <bruceg@btpost.net> wrote in message
> news:bruceg-D7353C.09414611102005@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
[color=darkred]
> One word comes to mind after reading this: "treadmill"
Naah, a PTO lets you avoid most or all of the drivetrain losses.
| |
| JoeSixPack 2005-10-12, 4:21 pm |
|
<andre_54005@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1129125349.545639.203190@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> JoeSixPack wrote:
>
> After thinking about it for several minutes, I can not come up with any
> way that a PTO driven generator would remind me of a treadmill. Maybe
> another six pack would help clear things up.
> ___________
> Andre' B.
>
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