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Home > Archive > Alternative Power sources > October 2005 > netmetering problems
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netmetering problems
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| JTurner 2005-10-12, 6:21 pm |
| Several of us in this area (N. Florida) have talked to the power company
about a netmetering hookup. The power company seems clueless and they are
just wasting our time with excuses.
Anyone know if Florida has a netmetering law? Where could I find the
details?
John
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| Dave Pyles 2005-10-12, 7:21 pm |
| On 10/12/2005 1:03 PM, JTurner wrote:
> Steve Spence wrote:
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> File not found: /dsire/library/includes/seeallincentivetype.cfm
>
Try Database of State Incentives for Renewable Energy (DSIRE)
http://www.dsireusa.org/
Dave Pyles
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"JTurner" <JimT@internetconnect.org> wrote in message
news:11kqv6qgfa1db28@news.supernews.com...
> Several of us in this area (N. Florida) have talked to the power company
> about a netmetering hookup. The power company seems clueless and they are
> just wasting our time with excuses.
>
> Anyone know if Florida has a netmetering law? Where could I find the
> details?
>
>
> John
A google got this page.
http://www.eere.energy.gov/greenpow...ering_map.shtml
Arizona has had ups and downs over this subject for a long time. Arizona
also has some of the most progressive laws concerning this on the books.
One utility discourages anything under 10kw for obvious reasons. The
controls and regulation issues are expensive. And for what? just a trickle.
The other utility has gone out and actively sought customers with generation
capacity that can and will parallel to the grid. One of my customers had a
1000 kw generator and they were extremely excited,,,, in the beginning. I
did some research and the genset that they owned was permitted for
"emergency only". The manufacture stated that this engine and generator
combination was not for "prime power". The local EPA told me that your
classed as a utility once you produce 75 tons of emissions a year. This
engine would do that every month.
Both utilities are open to the idea but this does give the linemen pause for
concern. During an outage what stops the small provider from back feeding
the grid? It is a pretty big safety concern for the men working on the
lines.
Worse if they ground something and your system kicks in they could short out
the controls you have purchased. So who pays for that?
Not an easy situation. Ask for the utility to provide a spokesman to your
group. Go slowly and you will come to an agreement. I have been working
with my local utilities for 20 years. Still when it is a subject out of the
ordinary it takes a few calls to get the information.
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| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2005-10-13, 4:21 pm |
| SQLit <sqlit@qwest.net> wrote:
>During an outage what stops the small provider from back feeding the grid?
Controls. There's an IEEE standard. Grid excited induction generators
are doubly safe. No grid, no output.
Nick
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| JTurner 2005-10-13, 11:21 pm |
| SQLit wrote:
>
> Ask for the utility to provide a spokesman to your group. Go slowly and
> you will come to an agreement. I have been working with my local utilities
> for 20 years. Still when it is a subject out of the ordinary it takes a
> few calls to get the information.
It'll take the patience of someone who is more tolerant of BS than I am to
work with these corporate hypocrits. As far as I can see, they are only
interested in maintaining and increasing their authority at the expense of
the nation and the common man.
A long time ago in a place far away - I had the patience to work with these
fools. No longer.........
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| Duane C. Johnson 2005-10-13, 11:21 pm |
| Hi SQLit;
SQLit <sqlit@qwest.net> wrote:
> During an outage what stops the small provider from
> back feeding the grid? It is a pretty big safety
> concern for the men working on the lines.
We're all concerned with safety!
Without going into the nitty gritty details, there are
several basic requirements.
1. The inverter must be synchronized to the grid.
Furthermore, the inverter must attempt to operate
at a frequency that is higher than the grid.
When the synchronizing influence of the grid goes
away the frequency will deviate and be a signal
to the controller to disconnect.
2. Disconnect when the inverter sense either over
or under voltage for an extended period of time.
3. Disconnect when the inverter sense over current
for an extended period of time.
That's basically the requirements.
The equipment that does the sensing must also be
citified to do so.
Duane
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| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2005-10-14, 7:21 am |
| Duane C. Johnson <redrok@redrok.com> wrote:
>The equipment that does the sensing must also be
>citified to do so.
A lot of us live in the boonies.
Nick
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| Solar Flare 2005-10-14, 10:21 am |
| I think he meant the boonies physically.
LOL
<nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu> wrote in message
news:dinund$ka0@acadia.ece.villanova.edu...
> A lot of us live in the boonies.
>
> Nick
>
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| William P. N. Smith 2005-10-14, 2:21 pm |
| JTurner <JimT@internetconnect.org> wrote:
>Several of us in this area (N. Florida) have talked to the power company
>about a netmetering hookup. The power company seems clueless and they are
>just wasting our time with excuses.
Since it looks like FL has net-metering (I can't parse the details of
your specific situation as compared to the exact laws, but if it turns
out you do), then just install a UL-1741(?) compliant grid-tie system
and you are all set. There's no "hookup", or permission required from
the power company, nor do they have to understand what you are doing.
_IFF_ they give you a hard time, or your production exceeds your
consumption in a given {month,year}, then you might have to deal with
them in some fashion, but it's always better to get forgiveness than
to get permission.
There's no percentage in helping you do it, so they aren't going to
bother, but they can't stop you either. Unless they've specifically
installed a one-way meter, yours will run backwards just fine.
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| tkgoogle@ktcnslt.com 2005-10-14, 3:21 pm |
| JTurner wrote:
> Several of us in this area (N. Florida) have talked to the power company
> about a netmetering hookup. The power company seems clueless and they are
> just wasting our time with excuses.
>
> Anyone know if Florida has a netmetering law? Where could I find the
> details?
There is no net metering law in the State of Florida.
However.. some utilities may have an optional net metering
provision.
ref:
http://www.eere.energy.gov/greenpow...etering_map.gif
You can start by identifying your electric utiltity.
Florida Public Service Commission
All Currently Regulated Electric Companies
Records found: 57 (100 per page)
Company Code Company Name
EC918 Alabama Electric Cooperative, Inc.
EM863 Beaches Energy Services
EC901 Central Florida Electric Cooperative, Inc.
EC902 Choctawhatchee Electric Coop., Inc.
EM850 City of Alachua
EM851 City of Bartow
EM852 City of Blountstown
EM853 City of Bushnell
EM854 City of Chattahoochee
EM855 City of Clewiston
EM856 City of Fort Meade
EM859 City of Green Cove Springs
EM861 City of Homestead
EM867 City of Lake Worth Utilities
EM866 City of Lakeland
EM868 City of Leesburg
EM870 City of Mount Dora
EM871 City of Newberry Utility Department
EM873 City of Ocala d/b/a Ocala Electric Utility
EM875 City of Quincy
EM876 City of St. Cloud
EM878 City of Starke
EM879 City of Tallahassee
EM880 City of Vero Beach
EM881 City of Wauchula
EM883 City of Williston
EM885 City of Winter Park Electric Utility
EC903 Clay Electric Cooperative, Inc.
EC904 Escambia River Electric Coop., Inc.
EC905 Florida Keys Electric Cooperative Association, Inc.
EI802 Florida Power & Light Company
EI803 Florida Public Utilities Company
EM857 Ft. Pierce Utilities Authority
EM858 Gainesville Regional Utilities/City of Gainesville
EC906 Glades Electric Cooperative, Inc.
EC907 Gulf Coast Electric Cooperative, Inc.
EI804 Gulf Power Company
EM862 JEA
EM864 Keys Energy Services
EM865 Kissimmee Utility Authority
EC908 Lee County Electric Cooperative, Inc.
EM869 Moore Haven Municipal Light Department
EC909 Okefenoke Rural Electric Membership Corporation
EM874 Orlando Utilities Commission
EC910 Peace River Electric Cooperative, Inc.
EI801 Progress Energy Florida, Inc.
EM884 Reedy Creek Improvement District - Utilities Division
EC917 Seminole Electric Cooperative, Inc.
EC911 Sumter Electric Cooperative, Inc.
EC912 Suwannee Valley Electric Cooperative, Inc.
EC913 Talquin Electric Cooperative, Inc.
EI806 Tampa Electric Company
EM860 Town of Havana
EC914 Tri-County Electric Cooperative, Inc.
EM872 Utilities Commission, City of New Smyrna Beach, Florida
EC915 West Florida Electric Cooperative Association, Inc.
EC916 Withlacoochee River Electric Cooperative, Inc.
And then look up regulatory filings.
1st.. in your electric utility's website.
2nd.. in the PSC website.. http://www.psc.state.fl.us/
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| TerryD 2005-10-14, 7:21 pm |
| William P. N. Smith <> wrote:
>
> Since it looks like FL has net-metering (I can't parse the details of
> your specific situation as compared to the exact laws, but if it turns
> out you do), then just install a UL-1741(?) compliant grid-tie system
> and you are all set. There's no "hookup", or permission required from
> the power company, nor do they have to understand what you are doing.
>
Who makes the best UL-1741 grid tie systems? Recommendations really
appreciated....
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| William P. N. Smith 2005-10-14, 10:21 pm |
| TerryD <TerryD@speedstreet.net> wrote:
>Who makes the best UL-1741 grid tie systems? Recommendations really
>appreciated....
AFAICT anyone selling grid-tie systems in the US _has_ to be selling
UL*, so that part is easy.
"Best" will depend on your definition of best, but OutBack and Sunny
Boy are at the top of my short list.
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