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Home > Archive > Alternative Power sources > October 2005 > Briggs engine help
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Briggs engine help
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| Steve Kraus 2005-10-22, 10:21 pm |
| I have a generator powered by an 8 HP Briggs (190400 series), about 13
years old. As it's only for power outages it has very low hours. I used
to test run it every so often but probably not in a year or so now. When
I do test it I use the fuel shutoff and let it run out of gas to minimize
deposit buildup. Some years back the carb was leaky and I got a carb kit
for it and also Permatex'ed (or similar) the fuel bowl. (I'm not an
expert but I do have some level of familiarity there, having
disassembled, cleaned, and replaced carbs on small engines since I was a
kid.)
The other day the power went out so I gassed up the generator and fired
it up. After not running for about a year or more the engine was
basically a basket case with what I presume was a carb related problem.
The engine would start, I'd kick off the choke and after a few seconds it
would sputter and start to die. I'd throw the choke back in and "save"
it and then I'd back off and again it would start to die. Too little
gas, right? So I'd play with the mixture screw, even running it in and
out in case of dirt. I also tried forcing the throttle to the idle stop
(against the governor) and used the idle screw to get decent low speed
operation. (The engine never idles but it would have to pass through the
idle speed range on start up.) Nothing was really behaving like it
should in terms of adjusting mixture to zero in on the best setting with
choke off (not that it should not have been already correct.) I did
eventually get it running steady at a governed 3600 RPM but clearly
something wasn't right. Gas was fresh, not stale.
I suppose this was just a matter of dirt and disassembling and cleaning
the carb will take care of it but just wondering if there's anything else
that comes to mind that I should be checking on. Is there anything this
carb or engine as a whole is notorious for?
I've already torn the carb apart and don't see anything but that's not
unusual; I've taken many apart for cleaning that were acting up and put
them back together and never do see the actual dirt. Float checks out;
it didnt' spring a leak. Guess I will get another carb kit.
In my experience the diaphragm-type carbs with primer start seemed a bit
more reliable and made for easier starting engines. Wish this was one of
those.
| |
| Charles Foot 2005-10-22, 11:21 pm |
| Steve Kraus wrote:
> I have a generator powered by an 8 HP Briggs (190400 series), about 13
> years old. As it's only for power outages it has very low hours. I used
> to test run it every so often but probably not in a year or so now. When
> I do test it I use the fuel shutoff and let it run out of gas to minimize
> deposit buildup. Some years back the carb was leaky and I got a carb kit
> for it and also Permatex'ed (or similar) the fuel bowl. (I'm not an
> expert but I do have some level of familiarity there, having
> disassembled, cleaned, and replaced carbs on small engines since I was a
> kid.)
>
> The other day the power went out so I gassed up the generator and fired
> it up. After not running for about a year or more the engine was
> basically a basket case with what I presume was a carb related problem.
> The engine would start, I'd kick off the choke and after a few seconds it
> would sputter and start to die. I'd throw the choke back in and "save"
> it and then I'd back off and again it would start to die. Too little
> gas, right? So I'd play with the mixture screw, even running it in and
> out in case of dirt. I also tried forcing the throttle to the idle stop
> (against the governor) and used the idle screw to get decent low speed
> operation. (The engine never idles but it would have to pass through the
> idle speed range on start up.) Nothing was really behaving like it
> should in terms of adjusting mixture to zero in on the best setting with
> choke off (not that it should not have been already correct.) I did
> eventually get it running steady at a governed 3600 RPM but clearly
> something wasn't right. Gas was fresh, not stale.
>
> I suppose this was just a matter of dirt and disassembling and cleaning
> the carb will take care of it but just wondering if there's anything else
> that comes to mind that I should be checking on. Is there anything this
> carb or engine as a whole is notorious for?
>
> I've already torn the carb apart and don't see anything but that's not
> unusual; I've taken many apart for cleaning that were acting up and put
> them back together and never do see the actual dirt. Float checks out;
> it didnt' spring a leak. Guess I will get another carb kit.
>
> In my experience the diaphragm-type carbs with primer start seemed a bit
> more reliable and made for easier starting engines. Wish this was one of
> those.
Dirty air filter?
| |
|
| Steve,
Pull out the main jet in the carb and I think you'll find it's clogged.
Q
Steve Kraus wrote:
> I have a generator powered by an 8 HP Briggs (190400 series), about 13
> years old. As it's only for power outages it has very low hours. I used
> to test run it every so often but probably not in a year or so now. When
> I do test it I use the fuel shutoff and let it run out of gas to minimize
> deposit buildup. Some years back the carb was leaky and I got a carb kit
> for it and also Permatex'ed (or similar) the fuel bowl. (I'm not an
> expert but I do have some level of familiarity there, having
> disassembled, cleaned, and replaced carbs on small engines since I was a
> kid.)
>
> The other day the power went out so I gassed up the generator and fired
> it up. After not running for about a year or more the engine was
> basically a basket case with what I presume was a carb related problem.
> The engine would start, I'd kick off the choke and after a few seconds it
> would sputter and start to die. I'd throw the choke back in and "save"
> it and then I'd back off and again it would start to die. Too little
> gas, right? So I'd play with the mixture screw, even running it in and
> out in case of dirt. I also tried forcing the throttle to the idle stop
> (against the governor) and used the idle screw to get decent low speed
> operation. (The engine never idles but it would have to pass through the
> idle speed range on start up.) Nothing was really behaving like it
> should in terms of adjusting mixture to zero in on the best setting with
> choke off (not that it should not have been already correct.) I did
> eventually get it running steady at a governed 3600 RPM but clearly
> something wasn't right. Gas was fresh, not stale.
>
> I suppose this was just a matter of dirt and disassembling and cleaning
> the carb will take care of it but just wondering if there's anything else
> that comes to mind that I should be checking on. Is there anything this
> carb or engine as a whole is notorious for?
>
> I've already torn the carb apart and don't see anything but that's not
> unusual; I've taken many apart for cleaning that were acting up and put
> them back together and never do see the actual dirt. Float checks out;
> it didnt' spring a leak. Guess I will get another carb kit.
>
> In my experience the diaphragm-type carbs with primer start seemed a bit
> more reliable and made for easier starting engines. Wish this was one of
> those.
| |
| nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca 2005-10-23, 12:21 am |
| On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:44:15 +1300, Charles Foot <chaz@equinet.co.nz>
wrote:
>Steve Kraus wrote:
>Dirty air filter?
Definitely not - a dirty air filter acts like a choke, and the OP
needed choke to keep it running.,
| |
| Gordon Richmond 2005-10-23, 12:21 am |
| Sounds to me like you got some foreign matter in the jet, above the
point where the mixture screw seats. Disassembly and thorough cleaning
of the carb should fix it.
Avoid using ANY kind of sealer on carburetor gaskets. All it takes is
for one small dribble of that stuff to work loose, and then a jet gets
plugged.
IMHO, you wouldn't be happy with a diaphragm-type carb in a Briggs;
not for that type of service. The diaphragms tend to dry out and
become stiff, when the units sits for a long spell.
Gordon Richmond
| |
| Bob S. 2005-10-23, 1:21 am |
|
Steve Kraus wrote:
> When I do test it I use the fuel shutoff and let it run out of
> gas to minimize deposit buildup.
Experts now say this is not a good thing to do. It leaves a gas film in
the carb which turns to varnish pretty quickly. Best thing to do is use
gas with a fuel stabilizer added and leave fuel in the carb.
Bob S.
| |
|
|
"Steve Kraus" <screen@SPAMBLOCKfilmteknik.com> wrote in message
news:jVA6f.348$Rl1.221@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> I suppose this was just a matter of dirt and disassembling and cleaning
> the carb will take care of it but just wondering if there's anything else
> that comes to mind that I should be checking on. Is there anything this
> carb or engine as a whole is notorious for?
Remove the fuel line, check for obstructions.
Check the tank outlet for obstructions.
Remove the carb, inspect check the fuel inlet for obstruction.
Inspect main jet for obstruction.
Check the float needle seat, check float height.
You get the idea. Check the entire fuel flow path for obstruction.
| |
| rdglide03-dbasedos@yahoo.com 2005-10-23, 11:21 am |
| My 1.5 yr old Toro mower had same problem. Warranteed to start in two
pulls, "right". Fine print gives them the out they needed.
Anyway, I was told by a dealer that it is almost always dirty gas in
carb, tank and can. Well he was dead on. I poured the fuel back into
the gas can. Then ran the gas through a old white t-shirt and funnel
into a empty clear plastic bottle. I couldn't believe what showed up
in the t-shirt. I removed the gas tank and shook it with a little gas
in it and back to the t-shirt. Man, it was loaded with flakes of
something. The tank has a filter so I blew air through the fuel line
outlet and cleaned again. Cleaned the jet and bowl. Squirted er with
carb cleaner and she's running fine. The primer doesn't seem to do
anything so I may pull the carb this winter and do a complete cleaning.
| |
| Jeff Wisnia 2005-10-23, 4:21 pm |
| Bob S. wrote:
> Steve Kraus wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Experts now say this is not a good thing to do. It leaves a gas film in
> the carb which turns to varnish pretty quickly. Best thing to do is use
> gas with a fuel stabilizer added and leave fuel in the carb.
>
> Bob S.
>
Thanks for that tip. I've been doing the "run the bowl dry" thing for
many years now, but I'll try it the "new way" when I put my lawn
equipment into hibernation in a week or so. I always put stabilizer in
the gas left in the tank anyway.
But I'll still close the shutoff for safety.
Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."
| |
| Stormin Mormon 2005-10-23, 10:21 pm |
| When you have to part choke an engine to keep it running, it's running lean.
Might be a missing air filter, or some problem with the fuel supply.
The only thing that comes to mind is to install a new gasket between the
carb and the engine. Give it a light coat of Permatex II Non Hardening
(black stuff). Sometimes a missing carb to engine gasket will cause this
type of problem.
--
Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
..
..
"Steve Kraus" <screen@SPAMBLOCKfilmteknik.com> wrote in message
news:jVA6f.348$Rl1.221@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
I have a generator powered by an 8 HP Briggs (190400 series), about 13
years old. As it's only for power outages it has very low hours. I used
to test run it every so often but probably not in a year or so now. When
I do test it I use the fuel shutoff and let it run out of gas to minimize
deposit buildup. Some years back the carb was leaky and I got a carb kit
for it and also Permatex'ed (or similar) the fuel bowl. (I'm not an
expert but I do have some level of familiarity there, having
disassembled, cleaned, and replaced carbs on small engines since I was a
kid.)
The other day the power went out so I gassed up the generator and fired
it up. After not running for about a year or more the engine was
basically a basket case with what I presume was a carb related problem.
The engine would start, I'd kick off the choke and after a few seconds it
would sputter and start to die. I'd throw the choke back in and "save"
it and then I'd back off and again it would start to die. Too little
gas, right? So I'd play with the mixture screw, even running it in and
out in case of dirt. I also tried forcing the throttle to the idle stop
(against the governor) and used the idle screw to get decent low speed
operation. (The engine never idles but it would have to pass through the
idle speed range on start up.) Nothing was really behaving like it
should in terms of adjusting mixture to zero in on the best setting with
choke off (not that it should not have been already correct.) I did
eventually get it running steady at a governed 3600 RPM but clearly
something wasn't right. Gas was fresh, not stale.
I suppose this was just a matter of dirt and disassembling and cleaning
the carb will take care of it but just wondering if there's anything else
that comes to mind that I should be checking on. Is there anything this
carb or engine as a whole is notorious for?
I've already torn the carb apart and don't see anything but that's not
unusual; I've taken many apart for cleaning that were acting up and put
them back together and never do see the actual dirt. Float checks out;
it didnt' spring a leak. Guess I will get another carb kit.
In my experience the diaphragm-type carbs with primer start seemed a bit
more reliable and made for easier starting engines. Wish this was one of
those.
| |
| Stormin Mormon 2005-10-23, 11:21 pm |
| Dissemble carb, and spray clean it with carb cleaner with toluene? Works on
a lot of things.
Oh, oven cleaner spray with sodium hydroxide works nicely for cleaning carb
parts. Rinse well, and then dry.
--
Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
..
..
"Bob S." <bohica610@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1130038053.829560.199100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Steve Kraus wrote:
> When I do test it I use the fuel shutoff and let it run out of
> gas to minimize deposit buildup.
Experts now say this is not a good thing to do. It leaves a gas film in
the carb which turns to varnish pretty quickly. Best thing to do is use
gas with a fuel stabilizer added and leave fuel in the carb.
Bob S.
| |
|
|
"Bob S." <bohica610@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1130038053.829560.199100@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Steve Kraus wrote:
>
>
> Experts now say this is not a good thing to do. It leaves a gas film in
> the carb which turns to varnish pretty quickly. Best thing to do is use
> gas with a fuel stabilizer added and leave fuel in the carb.
>
> Bob S.
I've been running the fuel outta my various engine carbs for over thirty
years before putting the engine to bed. 'Experts' are wrong, I suspect,
cause I've NEVER had a carb fouled up from old fuel yet... I have seen
quite a few that DID foul when fuel was left in them (even with stabilizer)
Andy
| |
| Bughunter 2005-10-24, 7:21 am |
| Flakes in the gas used to be a common problem in the days when metal gas
tanks were used. It's surprising to hear about flakes, because most tanks
and cans are plastic these days. Have you ever filled it from a metal
container. If so, time to discard that container (along with the t-shirt
8> ) )
The flakes are easier to get rid of than gum because a mechanical wipe with
a cloth
can remove them, whereas gum requires a solvent.
<rdglide03-dbasedos@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1130074346.719324.130730@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> My 1.5 yr old Toro mower had same problem. Warranteed to start in two
> pulls, "right". Fine print gives them the out they needed.
> Anyway, I was told by a dealer that it is almost always dirty gas in
> carb, tank and can. Well he was dead on. I poured the fuel back into
> the gas can. Then ran the gas through a old white t-shirt and funnel
> into a empty clear plastic bottle. I couldn't believe what showed up
> in the t-shirt. I removed the gas tank and shook it with a little gas
> in it and back to the t-shirt. Man, it was loaded with flakes of
> something. The tank has a filter so I blew air through the fuel line
> outlet and cleaned again. Cleaned the jet and bowl. Squirted er with
> carb cleaner and she's running fine. The primer doesn't seem to do
> anything so I may pull the carb this winter and do a complete cleaning.
>
| |
| Loren Amelang 2005-10-24, 3:21 pm |
| On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:06:41 -0400, Jeff Wisnia
<jwisnia@conversent.net> wrote:
>Bob S. wrote:
>
>
>Thanks for that tip. I've been doing the "run the bowl dry" thing for
>many years now, but I'll try it the "new way" when I put my lawn
>equipment into hibernation in a week or so. I always put stabilizer in
>the gas left in the tank anyway.
>
>But I'll still close the shutoff for safety.
If you close the shutoff anyway, won't all the gas in the carb
evaporate over the winter, and not be continuously diluted by fresher,
stabilized fuel from the tank, providing the worst of both methods?
Seems to me like it's one or the other - close the valve and run out
the fuel in the float bowl, hoping the little that is left won't make
too much gum, or leave the valve open and hope the stabilizer works.
Or is stabilizer bigger magic than I think it is?
Loren
| |
|
| My experience with leaving the carb dry of gas will cause the rubber
diaphgram to crack or get too stiff, that's why I leave the gas in the
tank. Besides, you're supposed to test the generator monthly. And I
would use gas stabiziler also, it works fine in boat engines for the
winter, but to leave them dry---not me. Usually means a new carb kit
the next year or two.
J
Steve Kraus wrote:
> I have a generator powered by an 8 HP Briggs (190400 series), about 13
> years old. As it's only for power outages it has very low hours. I used
> to test run it every so often but probably not in a year or so now. When
> I do test it I use the fuel shutoff and let it run out of gas to minimize
> deposit buildup. Some years back the carb was leaky and I got a carb kit
> for it and also Permatex'ed (or similar) the fuel bowl. (I'm not an
> expert but I do have some level of familiarity there, having
> disassembled, cleaned, and replaced carbs on small engines since I was a
> kid.)
>
> The other day the power went out so I gassed up the generator and fired
> it up. After not running for about a year or more the engine was
> basically a basket case with what I presume was a carb related problem.
> The engine would start, I'd kick off the choke and after a few seconds it
> would sputter and start to die. I'd throw the choke back in and "save"
> it and then I'd back off and again it would start to die. Too little
> gas, right? So I'd play with the mixture screw, even running it in and
> out in case of dirt. I also tried forcing the throttle to the idle stop
> (against the governor) and used the idle screw to get decent low speed
> operation. (The engine never idles but it would have to pass through the
> idle speed range on start up.) Nothing was really behaving like it
> should in terms of adjusting mixture to zero in on the best setting with
> choke off (not that it should not have been already correct.) I did
> eventually get it running steady at a governed 3600 RPM but clearly
> something wasn't right. Gas was fresh, not stale.
>
> I suppose this was just a matter of dirt and disassembling and cleaning
> the carb will take care of it but just wondering if there's anything else
> that comes to mind that I should be checking on. Is there anything this
> carb or engine as a whole is notorious for?
>
> I've already torn the carb apart and don't see anything but that's not
> unusual; I've taken many apart for cleaning that were acting up and put
> them back together and never do see the actual dirt. Float checks out;
> it didnt' spring a leak. Guess I will get another carb kit.
>
> In my experience the diaphragm-type carbs with primer start seemed a bit
> more reliable and made for easier starting engines. Wish this was one of
> those.
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