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Home > Archive > Alternative Power sources > November 2005 > Emergency Heating
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| I just wondered if anyone living in areas that can get quite cold in
winter, have anything in the way of emergency heating?
I live in the UK, and apparently the forecast is that we will have one
of the coldest winters in quite a few decades. Hopefully the weather
people have got this one wrong, but if they haven't we could be in for
the deep freeze.
I am just thinking, if there was ever some sort of situation were we
lost power and couldn't heat our homes in the middle of winter, what
do you do? It is probably a good idea to have some sort of back up
emergency heating. Better to be prepared.
If anyone in here has plans in case of emergency and power failure so
they can still have hearing, what do you use? I am thinking of having
those small gas stove type heaters you can get for camping as a backup
in case of emergency. At least then you can maybe have it in one room
in the house to keep warm. I'm not too sure how long they last for
though? I know they only have small gas cylinders, so they can't last
for that many hours.
Anyone have any other ideas for heating in an emergency? What is good
value, efficient and can last quite a number of hours?
Thanks for your advice.
John
| |
|
|
"John" <duc@ula.com> wrote in message
news:6110k1hm0kblhajkn4p6g7930qiap01q4j@4ax.com...
> I just wondered if anyone living in areas that can get quite cold in
> winter, have anything in the way of emergency heating?
>
> I live in the UK, and apparently the forecast is that we will have one
> of the coldest winters in quite a few decades. Hopefully the weather
> people have got this one wrong, but if they haven't we could be in for
> the deep freeze.
>
> I am just thinking, if there was ever some sort of situation were we
> lost power and couldn't heat our homes in the middle of winter, what
> do you do? It is probably a good idea to have some sort of back up
> emergency heating. Better to be prepared.
>
> If anyone in here has plans in case of emergency and power failure so
> they can still have hearing, what do you use? I am thinking of having
> those small gas stove type heaters you can get for camping as a backup
> in case of emergency. At least then you can maybe have it in one room
> in the house to keep warm. I'm not too sure how long they last for
> though? I know they only have small gas cylinders, so they can't last
> for that many hours.
>
> Anyone have any other ideas for heating in an emergency? What is good
> value, efficient and can last quite a number of hours?
>
> Thanks for your advice.
>
> John
What ever you buy make damn sure that it is rated for use indoors. Most of
the appliances I can think about that are used for camping are not for use
indoors. Remember the Carbon Monoxide warnings.
| |
| pjm@see_my_sig_for_addre.s.s.com 2005-10-02, 2:21 pm |
| Fer chrisake, don't x-post this shit all over the freaking Internet
!!!!
On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 17:04:29 +0100, John <duc@ula.com> wrote:
>I just wondered if anyone living in areas that can get quite cold in
>winter, have anything in the way of emergency heating?
>
>I live in the UK, and apparently the forecast is that we will have one
>of the coldest winters in quite a few decades. Hopefully the weather
>people have got this one wrong, but if they haven't we could be in for
>the deep freeze.
>
>I am just thinking, if there was ever some sort of situation were we
>lost power and couldn't heat our homes in the middle of winter, what
>do you do? It is probably a good idea to have some sort of back up
>emergency heating. Better to be prepared.
>
>If anyone in here has plans in case of emergency and power failure so
>they can still have hearing, what do you use? I am thinking of having
>those small gas stove type heaters you can get for camping as a backup
>in case of emergency. At least then you can maybe have it in one room
>in the house to keep warm. I'm not too sure how long they last for
>though? I know they only have small gas cylinders, so they can't last
>for that many hours.
>
>Anyone have any other ideas for heating in an emergency? What is good
>value, efficient and can last quite a number of hours?
>
>Thanks for your advice.
>
>John
>
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
| |
|
|
"John" <duc@ula.com> wrote in message
news:6110k1hm0kblhajkn4p6g7930qiap01q4j@4ax.com...
>I just wondered if anyone living in areas that can get quite cold in
> winter, have anything in the way of emergency heating?
>
> I live in the UK, and apparently the forecast is that we will have one
> of the coldest winters in quite a few decades. Hopefully the weather
> people have got this one wrong, but if they haven't we could be in for
> the deep freeze.
>
> I am just thinking, if there was ever some sort of situation were we
> lost power and couldn't heat our homes in the middle of winter, what
> do you do? It is probably a good idea to have some sort of back up
> emergency heating. Better to be prepared.
>
> If anyone in here has plans in case of emergency and power failure so
> they can still have hearing, what do you use? I am thinking of having
> those small gas stove type heaters you can get for camping as a backup
> in case of emergency. At least then you can maybe have it in one room
> in the house to keep warm. I'm not too sure how long they last for
> though? I know they only have small gas cylinders, so they can't last
> for that many hours.
>
> Anyone have any other ideas for heating in an emergency? What is good
> value, efficient and can last quite a number of hours?
>
> Thanks for your advice.
>
> John
>
>
I live near Chicago and we get to sub zero here. I don't know what that is
in Celsius, what I have is a natural gas heater that I mounted on the return
of my forced air furnace. I mounted it there for convience since the gas
line was near. I can light this with a push button to keep my pipes from
freezing if the power goes out for any length of time. It has an oxygen
monitor to make sure that it is safe to operate and will shut down if its
unsafe. What is your fuel source in the UK? What do the majority of people
us for heat in the UK?
Hope this helps,
| |
| Dave Fawthrop 2005-10-02, 3:21 pm |
| Its a Troll folks
ng line
<alt.energy.homepower,rec.outdoors.camping,uk.rec.camping,sci.engr.heat-vent-ac,alt.solar.photovoltaic,alt.survival>
--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
The London suicide bombers killed innocent commuters.
Animal rights terrorists and activists kill innocent patients.
| |
| Solar Flare 2005-10-02, 4:21 pm |
| Run home to mom and dad's?
LOL
"John" <duc@ula.com> wrote in message
news:6110k1hm0kblhajkn4p6g7930qiap01q4j@4ax.com...
I just wondered if anyone living in areas that can get quite cold in
winter, have anything in the way of emergency heating?
I live in the UK, and apparently the forecast is that we will have one
of the coldest winters in quite a few decades. Hopefully the weather
people have got this one wrong, but if they haven't we could be in for
the deep freeze.
I am just thinking, if there was ever some sort of situation were we
lost power and couldn't heat our homes in the middle of winter, what
do you do? It is probably a good idea to have some sort of back up
emergency heating. Better to be prepared.
If anyone in here has plans in case of emergency and power failure so
they can still have hearing, what do you use? I am thinking of having
those small gas stove type heaters you can get for camping as a backup
in case of emergency. At least then you can maybe have it in one room
in the house to keep warm. I'm not too sure how long they last for
though? I know they only have small gas cylinders, so they can't last
for that many hours.
Anyone have any other ideas for heating in an emergency? What is good
value, efficient and can last quite a number of hours?
Thanks for your advice.
John
| |
|
| >I live near Chicago and we get to sub zero here. I don't know what that is
>in Celsius, what I have is a natural gas heater that I mounted on the return
>of my forced air furnace. I mounted it there for convience since the gas
>line was near. I can light this with a push button to keep my pipes from
>freezing if the power goes out for any length of time. It has an oxygen
>monitor to make sure that it is safe to operate and will shut down if its
>unsafe. What is your fuel source in the UK? What do the majority of people
>us for heat in the UK?
>
>Hope this helps,
Hi. Sorry to anyone upset by the x-post. I have just posted to mainly
groups I thought the people would have more experience of this and be
able to offer better advice. I am not a troll, I am just generally
interested in what people would do in an emergency being without
heating and if you are already prepared if that happened. I have
posted in the solar, homepower and heat-vent-ac groups previously. And
have only cross posted to the other groups too because I though there
would be people in here with more experience in these sort of things.
I am in the UK, in Yorkshire. We have both electricity and gas for
heating. It is probably unlikely that we would lose both gas and
electricity, but you never know. What happens if there is severe bad
weather and freezing temperatures, and you lose both electricity and
gas which the utility companies are not able to restore for a few
days? Without heating our house can go right down in temperature. It
is an old victorian house. If anything like that ever did happen I
would want to know that I have some sort of backup for that type of
emergency, and can provide heating for the family.
If you can suggest anything portable that is safe for use indoors I'd
be very grateful. I guess camping stoves etc are a definite no-no and
you could get carbon monoxide poisoning from these? Are there any
portable gas heating options rated for indoor use to consider? What
else could be considered? Are there any burners that run on other
fuels?
Thanks
John
| |
| John Mann 2005-10-02, 6:21 pm |
| In message <b0d0k1l4hqn2fmhern90jfjejbni7pukgs@4ax.com>, John
<duc@ula.com> writes
>I am in the UK, in Yorkshire. We have both electricity and gas for
>heating. It is probably unlikely that we would lose both gas and
>electricity, but you never know. What happens if there is severe bad
>weather and freezing temperatures, and you lose both electricity and
>gas which the utility companies are not able to restore for a few
>days? Without heating our house can go right down in temperature. It
>is an old victorian house. If anything like that ever did happen I
>would want to know that I have some sort of backup for that type of
>emergency, and can provide heating for the family.
>
>If you can suggest anything portable that is safe for use indoors I'd
>be very grateful. I guess camping stoves etc are a definite no-no and
>you could get carbon monoxide poisoning from these? Are there any
>portable gas heating options rated for indoor use to consider? What
>else could be considered? Are there any burners that run on other
>fuels?
>
If it's a Victorian house it must have fireplaces in most if not all
rooms!
You can buy Calor Gas heaters which are portable and contain the
cylinder ibside them. Specifically designed for indoor use..
--
John Mann
| |
| King Queen 2005-10-02, 6:21 pm |
| On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 20:37:02 +0100, John <duc@ula.com> wrote:
>It is probably unlikely that we would lose both gas and
>electricity, but you never know.
Except that if your electricity goes, generally the controller for the
gas central heating goes too and you can't run the central heating (or
hot water)
>Are there any
>portable gas heating options rated for indoor use to consider?
Yes, you can get them that run off big calor gas cannisters, 3 bar
fires.
--
To email remove .lartsspammers
http://www.kingqueen.org.uk
| |
| Telstra 2005-10-02, 7:21 pm |
| Good on you Mate
"King Queen" <kq.lartsspammers@kingqueen.org.uk> wrote in message
news:2aj0k1lmounrlokr7vjbrn9du4m7m7s54v@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 20:37:02 +0100, John <duc@ula.com> wrote:
>
>
> Except that if your electricity goes, generally the controller for the
> gas central heating goes too and you can't run the central heating (or
> hot water)
>
>
> Yes, you can get them that run off big calor gas cannisters, 3 bar
> fires.
>
> --
> To email remove .lartsspammers
> http://www.kingqueen.org.uk
| |
| John Beardmore 2005-10-02, 7:21 pm |
| In message <b0d0k1l4hqn2fmhern90jfjejbni7pukgs@4ax.com>, John
<duc@ula.com> writes
>I am in the UK, in Yorkshire.
Pullovers and duvets ?
J/. (In Derbyshire UK.)
--
John Beardmore
| |
| Chappy 2005-10-02, 7:21 pm |
| John wrote:
> I just wondered if anyone living in areas that can get quite cold in
> winter, have anything in the way of emergency heating?
>
> I live in the UK, and apparently the forecast is that we will have one
> of the coldest winters in quite a few decades. Hopefully the weather
> people have got this one wrong, but if they haven't we could be in for
> the deep freeze.
>
> I am just thinking, if there was ever some sort of situation were we
> lost power and couldn't heat our homes in the middle of winter, what
> do you do? It is probably a good idea to have some sort of back up
> emergency heating. Better to be prepared.
>
> If anyone in here has plans in case of emergency and power failure so
> they can still have hearing, what do you use? I am thinking of having
> those small gas stove type heaters you can get for camping as a backup
> in case of emergency. At least then you can maybe have it in one room
> in the house to keep warm. I'm not too sure how long they last for
> though? I know they only have small gas cylinders, so they can't last
> for that many hours.
>
> Anyone have any other ideas for heating in an emergency? What is good
> value, efficient and can last quite a number of hours?
>
> Thanks for your advice.
>
> John
>
>
Coldest winter in decades? Hows that? With all the global warming I
didnt think it was possible 
I'm going to pick up a Mr Heater http://www.mrheater.com/ Heard lots of
good things about them.
| |
|
|
One thing to remember in emergency is it is easier to heat a small
space then a big one...for temporary comfort make or set up a tent
in one of your rooms...can be made with blankets over a bed...etc...
Can be heated with a candle...but be careful of co2 buildup....
thank you for listening to my thoughts.....sno
John wrote:
>
>
> Hi. Sorry to anyone upset by the x-post. I have just posted to mainly
> groups I thought the people would have more experience of this and be
> able to offer better advice. I am not a troll, I am just generally
> interested in what people would do in an emergency being without
> heating and if you are already prepared if that happened. I have
> posted in the solar, homepower and heat-vent-ac groups previously. And
> have only cross posted to the other groups too because I though there
> would be people in here with more experience in these sort of things.
>
> I am in the UK, in Yorkshire. We have both electricity and gas for
> heating. It is probably unlikely that we would lose both gas and
> electricity, but you never know. What happens if there is severe bad
> weather and freezing temperatures, and you lose both electricity and
> gas which the utility companies are not able to restore for a few
> days? Without heating our house can go right down in temperature. It
> is an old victorian house. If anything like that ever did happen I
> would want to know that I have some sort of backup for that type of
> emergency, and can provide heating for the family.
>
> If you can suggest anything portable that is safe for use indoors I'd
> be very grateful. I guess camping stoves etc are a definite no-no and
> you could get carbon monoxide poisoning from these? Are there any
> portable gas heating options rated for indoor use to consider? What
> else could be considered? Are there any burners that run on other
> fuels?
>
> Thanks
>
> John
--
Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it
This tag line is generated by:
SLTG (Silly Little Tag Generator)
| |
| Robert Morein 2005-10-02, 8:21 pm |
|
"John" <duc@ula.com> wrote in message
news:b0d0k1l4hqn2fmhern90jfjejbni7pukgs@4ax.com...
[snip]
>
> I am in the UK, in Yorkshire. We have both electricity and gas for
> heating. It is probably unlikely that we would lose both gas and
> electricity, but you never know. What happens if there is severe bad
> weather and freezing temperatures, and you lose both electricity and
> gas which the utility companies are not able to restore for a few
> days? Without heating our house can go right down in temperature. It
> is an old victorian house. If anything like that ever did happen I
> would want to know that I have some sort of backup for that type of
> emergency, and can provide heating for the family.
>
Gas pipes do not usually come apart in the cold the way water mains do. Gas
interruptions are extremely infrequent.
You need a backup generator and a hookup to power the heater controls and
blower.
| |
| Steve Scott 2005-10-02, 8:21 pm |
| Generator backup. Natural gas or gasoline.
On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 17:04:29 +0100, John <duc@ula.com> wrote:
>I just wondered if anyone living in areas that can get quite cold in
>winter, have anything in the way of emergency heating?
>
>I live in the UK, and apparently the forecast is that we will have one
>of the coldest winters in quite a few decades. Hopefully the weather
>people have got this one wrong, but if they haven't we could be in for
>the deep freeze.
>
>I am just thinking, if there was ever some sort of situation were we
>lost power and couldn't heat our homes in the middle of winter, what
>do you do? It is probably a good idea to have some sort of back up
>emergency heating. Better to be prepared.
>
>If anyone in here has plans in case of emergency and power failure so
>they can still have hearing, what do you use? I am thinking of having
>those small gas stove type heaters you can get for camping as a backup
>in case of emergency. At least then you can maybe have it in one room
>in the house to keep warm. I'm not too sure how long they last for
>though? I know they only have small gas cylinders, so they can't last
>for that many hours.
>
>Anyone have any other ideas for heating in an emergency? What is good
>value, efficient and can last quite a number of hours?
>
>Thanks for your advice.
>
>John
>
--
Knowing Murphy's Law won't help either.
| |
| hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com 2005-10-02, 10:21 pm |
| John wrote:
> I just wondered if anyone living in areas that can get quite cold in
> winter, have anything in the way of emergency heating?
>
> I live in the UK, and apparently the forecast is that we will have one
> of the coldest winters in quite a few decades. Hopefully the weather
> people have got this one wrong, but if they haven't we could be in for
> the deep freeze.
>
> I am just thinking, if there was ever some sort of situation were we
> lost power and couldn't heat our homes in the middle of winter, what
> do you do? It is probably a good idea to have some sort of back up
> emergency heating. Better to be prepared.
>
> If anyone in here has plans in case of emergency and power failure so
> they can still have hearing, what do you use? I am thinking of having
> those small gas stove type heaters you can get for camping as a backup
> in case of emergency. At least then you can maybe have it in one room
> in the house to keep warm. I'm not too sure how long they last for
> though? I know they only have small gas cylinders, so they can't last
> for that many hours.
>
> Anyone have any other ideas for heating in an emergency? What is good
> value, efficient and can last quite a number of hours?
>
> Thanks for your advice.
>
> John
The UKMO medium-range forecast model is the best thing going. If the
UKMO office made the prediction, you'd better plan on it.
You can survive indoors quite well with thermal clothes, sleeping bags,
etc. Your biggest problem will be frozen water pipes as the indoor
temps pass through the freezing point.
If you use fuel indoors, you'll need to ventilate.
| |
| PackMule 2005-10-02, 11:21 pm |
|
"John" <duc@ula.com> wrote in message
news:6110k1hm0kblhajkn4p6g7930qiap01q4j@4ax.com...
>I just wondered if anyone living in areas that can get quite cold in
> winter, have anything in the way of emergency heating?
>
> I live in the UK, and apparently the forecast is that we will have one
> of the coldest winters in quite a few decades. Hopefully the weather
> people have got this one wrong, but if they haven't we could be in for
> the deep freeze.
>
> I am just thinking, if there was ever some sort of situation were we
> lost power and couldn't heat our homes in the middle of winter, what
> do you do? It is probably a good idea to have some sort of back up
> emergency heating. Better to be prepared.
>
> If anyone in here has plans in case of emergency and power failure so
> they can still have hearing, what do you use? I am thinking of having
> those small gas stove type heaters you can get for camping as a backup
> in case of emergency. At least then you can maybe have it in one room
> in the house to keep warm. I'm not too sure how long they last for
> though? I know they only have small gas cylinders, so they can't last
> for that many hours.
>
> Anyone have any other ideas for heating in an emergency? What is good
> value, efficient and can last quite a number of hours?
>
> Thanks for your advice.
>
> John
>
>Do you have kerosene in the UK? a good kerosene heater will heat a good
>sized room to cozy using about a gallon of kerosene perday. This would be
>easy to use and a couple of weeks worth of oil fairly safe to store.
--
Until the next GREAT backpack
Happy Trails & Happy Trials
PackMule
Load em up, move em out
Trials make us stronger.
| |
| Solar Flare 2005-10-02, 11:21 pm |
| Global warming only happens when it is warm....LOL
"Chappy" <schapman@selfsufficientliving.com> wrote in message
news:BfWdnZt15vUOyd3enZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@bresnan.com...
John wrote:
> I just wondered if anyone living in areas that can get quite cold in
> winter, have anything in the way of emergency heating?
>
> I live in the UK, and apparently the forecast is that we will have one
> of the coldest winters in quite a few decades. Hopefully the weather
> people have got this one wrong, but if they haven't we could be in for
> the deep freeze.
>
> I am just thinking, if there was ever some sort of situation were we
> lost power and couldn't heat our homes in the middle of winter, what
> do you do? It is probably a good idea to have some sort of back up
> emergency heating. Better to be prepared.
>
> If anyone in here has plans in case of emergency and power failure so
> they can still have hearing, what do you use? I am thinking of having
> those small gas stove type heaters you can get for camping as a backup
> in case of emergency. At least then you can maybe have it in one room
> in the house to keep warm. I'm not too sure how long they last for
> though? I know they only have small gas cylinders, so they can't last
> for that many hours.
>
> Anyone have any other ideas for heating in an emergency? What is good
> value, efficient and can last quite a number of hours?
>
> Thanks for your advice.
>
> John
>
>
Coldest winter in decades? Hows that? With all the global warming I
didnt think it was possible
I'm going to pick up a Mr Heater http://www.mrheater.com/ Heard lots of
good things about them.
| |
| Gunner Asch 2005-10-03, 5:21 am |
| On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 20:37:02 +0100, John <duc@ula.com> wrote:
>
>Hi. Sorry to anyone upset by the x-post. I have just posted to mainly
>groups I thought the people would have more experience of this and be
>able to offer better advice. I am not a troll, I am just generally
>interested in what people would do in an emergency being without
>heating and if you are already prepared if that happened. I have
>posted in the solar, homepower and heat-vent-ac groups previously. And
>have only cross posted to the other groups too because I though there
>would be people in here with more experience in these sort of things.
>
>I am in the UK, in Yorkshire. We have both electricity and gas for
>heating. It is probably unlikely that we would lose both gas and
>electricity, but you never know. What happens if there is severe bad
>weather and freezing temperatures, and you lose both electricity and
>gas which the utility companies are not able to restore for a few
>days? Without heating our house can go right down in temperature. It
>is an old victorian house. If anything like that ever did happen I
>would want to know that I have some sort of backup for that type of
>emergency, and can provide heating for the family.
>
>If you can suggest anything portable that is safe for use indoors I'd
>be very grateful. I guess camping stoves etc are a definite no-no and
>you could get carbon monoxide poisoning from these? Are there any
>portable gas heating options rated for indoor use to consider? What
>else could be considered? Are there any burners that run on other
>fuels?
>
>Thanks
>
>John
>
John..first thing you do is take a long hard look at any gas
appliances that may need power to operate. Many furnaces for example
have a blower motor that not only blows the hot air around the house,
but keeps the fire box cool enough for long runs
If you loose power under such circumstances..you loose the furnace.
On the other hand..a simple generator can power the furnace, and
perhaps a fridge.
Ill leave others to give you suggestions on low or no CO heating
devices. I live in the California desert..so my needs are easily met
Gunner
Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry
| |
| King Queen 2005-10-03, 6:21 am |
| On 2 Oct 2005 17:24:28 -0700, hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote:
>The UKMO medium-range forecast model is the best thing going. If the
>UKMO office made the prediction, you'd better plan on it.
http://www.metoffice.com/research/s...s/headline.html
"Our latest predictions indicate a colder than average winter for much
of Europe. If this holds true, parts of the UK — especially southern
regions — are expected to have temperatures below normal.
The last eight winters have been relatively mild and perhaps have
given the impression that these are 'normal'. The balance of
probability is for a winter colder than those experienced since
1995/6....
....Typically the broad features of the forecast for the European
region are correct two out of every three occasions. Using a traffic
light analogy we consider that people should be on amber alert for the
prospect of a colder-than-average winter.
There is also an indication for a drier-than-average winter over much
of the UK."
--
To email remove .lartsspammers
http://www.kingqueen.org.uk
| |
| RustY© 2005-10-03, 6:21 am |
|
"John" <duc@ula.com> wrote in message
news:6110k1hm0kblhajkn4p6g7930qiap01q4j@4ax.com...
> I just wondered.....
I'm sure you did John boy but you have posted this without thinking haven't
you. Outdoor heating systems are one thing but you will need to sort out
your insulation first. Tell us more..............
| |
| hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com 2005-10-03, 7:21 am |
|
King Queen wrote:
> On 2 Oct 2005 17:24:28 -0700, hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
> http://www.metoffice.com/research/s...s/headline.html
>
> "Our latest predictions indicate a colder than average winter for much
> of Europe. If this holds true, parts of the UK - especially southern
> regions - are expected to have temperatures below normal.
>
> The last eight winters have been relatively mild and perhaps have
> given the impression that these are 'normal'. The balance of
> probability is for a winter colder than those experienced since
> 1995/6....
Then it is important to know which 30 year period they have drawn their
"normal" from. Do they update it every decade, or every year?
> ...Typically the broad features of the forecast for the European
> region are correct two out of every three occasions. Using a traffic
> light analogy we consider that people should be on amber alert for the
> prospect of a colder-than-average winter.
People don't want probabilities. They want the forecaster to make
decisions for them.
> There is also an indication for a drier-than-average winter over much
> of the UK."
That would be nice.
| |
| Gary S. 2005-10-03, 10:21 am |
| >On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 17:04:29 +0100, John <duc@ula.com> wrote:[color=darkred]
>
John:
Make sure that you fully understand how carbon monoxide is produced.
Short version is that ANY combustion process which does not receive
enough oxygen is very likely to produce carbon monoxide. CO is a
deadly poison gas which is impossible to detect without a specialized
detector, as it is colorless, odorless, tasteless, and cannot be
filtered, etc.
Only use a combustion heater inside an enclosed space which is clearly
designed for indoor use, and follow the instructions completely as
regards ventilation and unattended use (unattended meaning that there
is not an awake adult in the area to check on things).
People die every year from carbon monoxide produced by improvised
heating.
Camping stoves are designed for OUTDOOR use only. That said, there are
heaters designed for such. The specialty heaters will cost a good bit
more, and require more thought in setup and use.
Two issues with emergency heating:
1) Keeping people warm. extra clothing layers, sleeping bags, etc are
important. Pretty much what would be used for camping in similar
temperatures. Past a certain point, for time or temperature, you may
have to evacuate to a shelter which is heated.
Creating a smaller zone within the house which can be heated
adequately for people, rather than trying to keep the whole structure
warm, is likely your best choice.
2) Keeping pipes, etc from freezing. Electric heat tapes, draining the
system, etc may be needed. A house can sustain many tens of thousands
of dollars of damage if the plumbing or heating pipes freeze and
burst. Aim to maintain a minimum of 40F in all areas with plumbing.
Losing power tends to kill most types of heating, as oil, most gas,
and some wood pellet or coal furnaces are electrically driven or
controlled.
Having a long-term backup generator setup to power essentials such as
the furnace might be a good option. Some nice options out there
running off propane or natural gas. A skilled electrician to help
design the power switchover is essential.
A quality wood stove with proper flue is probably your most reliable
option, but local zoning or space requirements may not allow. One that
can burn a variety of things including coal, wood pellets, as well as
wood would be best.
This is far better handled by advance prep, rather than throwing
something together after the problem starts. True for many things.
Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
--
At the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence
Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom
| |
| wmbjk 2005-10-03, 11:21 am |
| On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 07:32:42 GMT, Gunner Asch
<gunner@nospam.lightspeed.net> wrote:
>If you loose power
Don't be setting power loose! The first thing it will do is make you
untie other stuff.
>under such circumstances..you loose the furnace.
See, I told ya'.
Wayne
| |
| King Queen 2005-10-03, 1:21 pm |
| On 3 Oct 2005 03:07:59 -0700, hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote:
>Then it is important to know which 30 year period they have drawn their
>"normal" from. Do they update it every decade, or every year?
I understand typical pracise is to update the 30 year average each
year.
>People don't want probabilities. They want the forecaster to make
>decisions for them.
Yes well, such people don't understand the mechanics...
>That would be nice.
I don't think so; things could get desperate water shortage-wise next
year if this occurs.
--
To email remove .lartsspammers
http://www.kingqueen.org.uk
| |
| Sgt. Sausage 2005-10-03, 4:21 pm |
|
<hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128299068.391701.34340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> John wrote:
[color=darkred]
> You can survive indoors quite well with thermal clothes, sleeping bags,
> etc.
To a point. We had 8 days without power last
year due to an ice storm. It was comfortable
for about 4 of those days, and survivable for
all 8. We had zero degree temps. The house
temp dropped by about 8-10 degrees a day --
the first few days weren't bad, but the last
2 days were absolutely miserable. Temps
inside were sometimes *colder* than outside.
The house would cool off at night to about
zero, then the sun would come up and warm
up the outside to about 20, but due to the
insulation, the house would lag a good half
day behind the outside temperatures. I tried
opening up windows to bring in the warmer
air, but that just resulted in the "wind
chill" effect. No good there.
Survivable, yes. Comfortable -- most definitely
not.
| |
|
| Have a natural gas wall heater fitted on an outside wall. These are manual,
and don't need an electricity supply to ignite them etc. Running costs in uk
on full are approx 8p/per hr. They are also quite safe to leave on 24hrs in
any enviroment, as they take combustion air from the outer flue, and the
nasty products of combustion leave via the inner flue. Bedroom and bathroom
safe etc etc
Andy
"RustY©" <No.Mail@All.Thanks> wrote in message
news:oj60f.4986$Nv6.2778@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
>
> "John" <duc@ula.com> wrote in message
> news:6110k1hm0kblhajkn4p6g7930qiap01q4j@4ax.com...
>
> I'm sure you did John boy but you have posted this without thinking
> haven't
> you. Outdoor heating systems are one thing but you will need to sort out
> your insulation first. Tell us more..............
>
>
| |
| Mickey 2005-10-03, 10:21 pm |
| I have a biofuel stove that burns corn or wood pellets that can run off of a
12 volt battery.
"John" <duc@ula.com> wrote in message
news:6110k1hm0kblhajkn4p6g7930qiap01q4j@4ax.com...
>I just wondered if anyone living in areas that can get quite cold in
> winter, have anything in the way of emergency heating?
>
> I live in the UK, and apparently the forecast is that we will have one
> of the coldest winters in quite a few decades. Hopefully the weather
> people have got this one wrong, but if they haven't we could be in for
> the deep freeze.
>
> I am just thinking, if there was ever some sort of situation were we
> lost power and couldn't heat our homes in the middle of winter, what
> do you do? It is probably a good idea to have some sort of back up
> emergency heating. Better to be prepared.
>
> If anyone in here has plans in case of emergency and power failure so
> they can still have hearing, what do you use? I am thinking of having
> those small gas stove type heaters you can get for camping as a backup
> in case of emergency. At least then you can maybe have it in one room
> in the house to keep warm. I'm not too sure how long they last for
> though? I know they only have small gas cylinders, so they can't last
> for that many hours.
>
> Anyone have any other ideas for heating in an emergency? What is good
> value, efficient and can last quite a number of hours?
>
> Thanks for your advice.
>
> John
>
>
| |
| hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com 2005-10-03, 11:21 pm |
|
Sgt. Sausage wrote:
> <hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1128299068.391701.34340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> To a point. We had 8 days without power last
> year due to an ice storm.
Lucky me. I lost power for only 14 hours. But it sure was beautiful -
like a Walt Disney Ice Palace.
It was comfortable
> for about 4 of those days, and survivable for
> all 8. We had zero degree temps. The house
> temp dropped by about 8-10 degrees a day --
> the first few days weren't bad, but the last
> 2 days were absolutely miserable. Temps
> inside were sometimes *colder* than outside.
> The house would cool off at night to about
> zero, then the sun would come up and warm
> up the outside to about 20, but due to the
> insulation, the house would lag a good half
> day behind the outside temperatures. I tried
> opening up windows to bring in the warmer
> air, but that just resulted in the "wind
> chill" effect. No good there.
>
> Survivable, yes. Comfortable -- most definitely
> not.
Where's your Kerosun?
| |
| Antipodean Bucket Farmer 2005-10-04, 4:21 am |
| In article <11k3lqv6sop358c@corp.supernews.com>,
mickey@looney.com says...
> I have a biofuel stove that burns corn or wood pellets that can run off of a
> 12 volt battery.
Can you safely (not necessarily efficiently) burn
anything else in the unit? Did you build this, or buy
it? Any references to design or supplier?
Thanks...
--
Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
http://www.cardreport.com/
Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum
| |
| SurvivalCache 2005-10-04, 4:21 am |
| http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=217629
awesome emergency heaters.
Sandman
http://SurvivalCache.com
John wrote:
> I just wondered if anyone living in areas that can get quite cold in
> winter, have anything in the way of emergency heating?
>
> I live in the UK, and apparently the forecast is that we will have one
> of the coldest winters in quite a few decades. Hopefully the weather
> people have got this one wrong, but if they haven't we could be in for
> the deep freeze.
>
> I am just thinking, if there was ever some sort of situation were we
> lost power and couldn't heat our homes in the middle of winter, what
> do you do? It is probably a good idea to have some sort of back up
> emergency heating. Better to be prepared.
>
> If anyone in here has plans in case of emergency and power failure so
> they can still have hearing, what do you use? I am thinking of having
> those small gas stove type heaters you can get for camping as a backup
> in case of emergency. At least then you can maybe have it in one room
> in the house to keep warm. I'm not too sure how long they last for
> though? I know they only have small gas cylinders, so they can't last
> for that many hours.
>
> Anyone have any other ideas for heating in an emergency? What is good
> value, efficient and can last quite a number of hours?
>
> Thanks for your advice.
>
> John
| |
| Gunner Asch 2005-10-04, 4:21 am |
| On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 01:44:38 +0100, "Andy" <blueflame1965@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>Have a natural gas wall heater fitted on an outside wall. These are manual,
>and don't need an electricity supply to ignite them etc. Running costs in uk
>on full are approx 8p/per hr. They are also quite safe to leave on 24hrs in
>any enviroment, as they take combustion air from the outer flue, and the
>nasty products of combustion leave via the inner flue. Bedroom and bathroom
>safe etc etc
>
>Andy
The big problem with these..is poor circulation to other rooms in the
house. Ive lived in many rentals over the years with such a heater
and fans are pretty much a requirement to move the hot air into other
rooms.
Now if you simply close off most of the house and only leave doors
open to the bathroom, living room etc..they sorta work ok. They heat
one room pretty well, from the top down. A good fan or ceiling fan
will circulate the hot air off the ceiling. But it will require
running one off a battery/inverter.
I always thought this would be a good job for a sterling engine
Gunner
>
>"RustY©" <No.Mail@All.Thanks> wrote in message
>news:oj60f.4986$Nv6.2778@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
>
Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry
| |
| Vaughn 2005-10-04, 7:21 am |
|
<hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128390103.426337.123560@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Where's your Kerosun?
Exactly! I live in Florida where we don't need such things, but even I
know about KeroSun heaters. Aladan is another old brand of kerosene heater. If
I lived in the frozen north, I can't imagine being without at least backup heat
for one room.
Vaughn
>
| |
| Harry Keane 2005-10-04, 8:21 am |
| "SurvivalCache" <SurvivalCache@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1128407789.530902.112920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=217629
> awesome emergency heaters.
>
> Sandman
> http://SurvivalCache.com
>
Any UK suppliers? I note that the firm in your link don't ship outside
USA/Canada............
--
Harry Keane
| |
| RustY© 2005-10-04, 9:21 am |
|
"Gunner Asch" <gunner@nospam.lightspeed.net> wrote in message
news:2g94k1d4isl69vimvnqc3csl2p9o6atrl3@4ax.com...[color=darkred]
> On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 01:44:38 +0100, "Andy" <blueflame1965@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
But what has this to do with camping ??
Surely the OP was talking about heating a tent !
| |
| Derek Broughton 2005-10-04, 10:21 am |
| Vaughn wrote:
> <hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com> wrote in message>
news:1128390103.426337.123560@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> Exactly! I live in Florida where we don't need such things, but even
> I
> know about KeroSun heaters. Aladan is another old brand of kerosene
> heater.
Do they exhaust outdoors? Where do they get their combustion air? Every
time we have an extended winter power outage, we have deaths due to CO
poisoning. I don't know either of these brands, but most of the time these
deaths are due to using kerosene heaters indoors. The remainder is things
like idiots who run a generator in their basement, so that nobody will
steal it...
--
derek
| |
| nijhowne@juno.com 2005-10-04, 11:21 am |
| There are more expensive kero heaters that exhaust outdoors. They are
called vented kero heaters. Although not exactly used for camping,
they are used successfully in yurts.
Ashoke - heating.products.bz/kerotype.html
| |
| FZXDF5 2005-10-04, 11:21 am |
| As with any preperation there is the cost involved...I live in a
climate where 300 inches of snow is not uncommon and having constant
power is a luxury at best.
So as I see it you have three options and I will list them in terms of
cost:
1. Tough it out. I you wear heavy clothes, keep your doors and
windows closed as much as possible, and seal windows, doors and crawl
spaces from drafts (don't forget behind the window and door casings,
most are not insulated and a can of spray foam works best, remember it
expands and will warp your casings causing the windows and doors to
stick, rule of thumb if it looks like you have too little, you have
just the right amount). If you have a well insulated attic you have
very little thermal loss through a vertical surface and will loose most
of your stored heat in the structure through cross ventilation.
2. Get a coal/wood/oil stove. The coal/wood/oil stove's quality level
in the EU are much better than here in the states. They are kind of
pricey, but the hot surface management is much better, they are
designed to heat enclosed spaces and set up self circulating thermals
within the room and they are quite fuel efficent. To give you a few
web sites (my favorites are the ones with the tile on them, looks a lot
like furnature):
http://www.euroheat.co.uk/
http://www.woodstoveshop.co.uk/
http://www.ashvaleranges.co.uk/dovre700wood.htm
A caution is that you have to consider fuel availability, storage,
chimley design, make up air and stove location to provide the best use
of your limited resources, remember heat rises...oh yah and there is
the increase in fire protection insurance that goes along with this
(I've been dropped here in the states because my home insurer found out
I have a wood stove).
If you live in the country, look into an outdoor stove. They are easy
to install into your existing system (except steam heat) and they will
burn almost anything you can imagine. If they are far enough away from
your structures not fire riders on your insurance. Another bonus is
that the mess and smoke are all outside...I've run one of these for 20
years and there is always free wood to be had, storms are good for
this, and even if you purchase the wood the cost is still cheaper than
fossil fuels.
3. Electric Generation Plant: Weather you purchase a generator that
runs LP/NG/Petrol, you will need to do the following:
Change your electricty distribution system. There are a number of
quick connects available on the open market for attaching your
generator to your home. But you must be carefull not to back feed
power to your supplier. This will make them mad when they get a little
tickle from a wire they think is dead because you are energizing it by
mistake. You will also want to size your plant to your needs (money
saver). You only want to power what you need, furnace, microwave,
refigeration, lights...you don't need to power the whole flat. (the
kids will live without their Play Station)
Fuel storage: certain types of petrol have a storage life and can be
quite hazardous to handle, be prepared.
Fuel Accessiblilty: when we loose power here on a large scale, the gas
stations cannot pump gas or the hording masses will pump it dry and
they don't usually keep more than 2 or 3 normal days of supply on hand
so for long outages you may need to keep more on hand for longer
periods if that happens in your area.
Noise and exhaust: CO will kill you so don't run it in an enclosed
space and the noise of the engine running will attract your neighbors
(depends upon if you like them or not) and you may be
| |
| Ulysses 2005-10-04, 1:21 pm |
| Firewood, electric heater, or maybe a kerosene heater. I'm not certain of
the dangers of kerosene heaters but I think they are intended for indoor use
in large rooms and not for small, confined spaces. The CO from a propane
heater can kill you. I think kerosene has a different name there (Benzene
maybe?).
"John" <duc@ula.com> wrote in message
news:b0d0k1l4hqn2fmhern90jfjejbni7pukgs@4ax.com...
is[color=darkred]
return[color=darkred]
people[color=darkred]
>
>
> I am in the UK, in Yorkshire. We have both electricity and gas for
> heating. It is probably unlikely that we would lose both gas and
> electricity, but you never know. What happens if there is severe bad
> weather and freezing temperatures, and you lose both electricity and
> gas which the utility companies are not able to restore for a few
> days? Without heating our house can go right down in temperature. It
> is an old victorian house. If anything like that ever did happen I
> would want to know that I have some sort of backup for that type of
> emergency, and can provide heating for the family.
>
> If you can suggest anything portable that is safe for use indoors I'd
> be very grateful. I guess camping stoves etc are a definite no-no and
> you could get carbon monoxide poisoning from these? Are there any
> portable gas heating options rated for indoor use to consider? What
> else could be considered? Are there any burners that run on other
> fuels?
>
> Thanks
>
> John
>
>
| |
| Ulysses 2005-10-04, 2:21 pm |
|
"Gunner Asch" <gunner@nospam.lightspeed.net> wrote in message
news:icn1k1h5uhlvvar416i8s9tltlje4enr29@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 20:37:02 +0100, John <duc@ula.com> wrote:
>
is[color=darkred]
return[color=darkred]
its[color=darkred]
people[color=darkred]
> John..first thing you do is take a long hard look at any gas
> appliances that may need power to operate. Many furnaces for example
> have a blower motor that not only blows the hot air around the house,
> but keeps the fire box cool enough for long runs
>
> If you loose power under such circumstances..you loose the furnace.
> On the other hand..a simple generator can power the furnace, and
> perhaps a fridge.
>
> Ill leave others to give you suggestions on low or no CO heating
> devices. I live in the California desert..so my needs are easily met
It never gets cold in the desert? You must live in a different one than me.
Just kidding.
>
> Gunner
>
> Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
> clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals
are
> so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry
Liberals don't believe facts they believe propaganda and that's why they are
liberals. If they knew the facts they would be conservatives.
| |
| Arnold Walker 2005-10-04, 3:21 pm |
|
"FZXDF5" <david.oliver@eds.com> wrote in message
news:1128434100.107020.153380@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> As with any preperation there is the cost involved...I live in a
> climate where 300 inches of snow is not uncommon and having constant
> power is a luxury at best.
>
> So as I see it you have three options and I will list them in terms of
> cost:
>
> 1. Tough it out. I you wear heavy clothes, keep your doors and
> windows closed as much as possible, and seal windows, doors and crawl
> spaces from drafts (don't forget behind the window and door casings,
> most are not insulated and a can of spray foam works best, remember it
> expands and will warp your casings causing the windows and doors to
> stick, rule of thumb if it looks like you have too little, you have
> just the right amount). If you have a well insulated attic you have
> very little thermal loss through a vertical surface and will loose most
> of your stored heat in the structure through cross ventilation.
>
> 2. Get a coal/wood/oil stove. The coal/wood/oil stove's quality level
> in the EU are much better than here in the states. They are kind of
> pricey, but the hot surface management is much better, they are
> designed to heat enclosed spaces and set up self circulating thermals
> within the room and they are quite fuel efficent. To give you a few
> web sites (my favorites are the ones with the tile on them, looks a lot
> like furnature):
>
> http://www.euroheat.co.uk/
> http://www.woodstoveshop.co.uk/
> http://www.ashvaleranges.co.uk/dovre700wood.htm
>
> A caution is that you have to consider fuel availability, storage,
> chimley design, make up air and stove location to provide the best use
> of your limited resources, remember heat rises...oh yah and there is
> the increase in fire protection insurance that goes along with this
> (I've been dropped here in the states because my home insurer found out
> I have a wood stove).
>
> If you live in the country, look into an outdoor stove. They are easy
> to install into your existing system (except steam heat) and they will
> burn almost anything you can imagine. If they are far enough away from
> your structures not fire riders on your insurance. Another bonus is
> that the mess and smoke are all outside...I've run one of these for 20
> years and there is always free wood to be had, storms are good for
> this, and even if you purchase the wood the cost is still cheaper than
> fossil fuels.
>
> 3. Electric Generation Plant: Weather you purchase a generator that
> runs LP/NG/Petrol, you will need to do the following:
>
> Change your electricty distribution system. There are a number of
> quick connects available on the open market for attaching your
> generator to your home. But you must be carefull not to back feed
> power to your supplier. This will make them mad when they get a little
> tickle from a wire they think is dead because you are energizing it by
> mistake. You will also want to size your plant to your needs (money
> saver). You only want to power what you need, furnace, microwave,
> refigeration, lights...you don't need to power the whole flat. (the
> kids will live without their Play Station)
>
> Fuel storage: certain types of petrol have a storage life and can be
> quite hazardous to handle, be prepared.
>
> Fuel Accessiblilty: when we loose power here on a large scale, the gas
> stations cannot pump gas or the hording masses will pump it dry and
> they don't usually keep more than 2 or 3 normal days of supply on hand
> so for long outages you may need to keep more on hand for longer
> periods if that happens in your area.
>
> Noise and exhaust: CO will kill you so don't run it in an enclosed
> space and the noise of the engine running will attract your neighbors
> (depends upon if you like them or not) and you may be
I wouldn't rule out steam generation for electricity as long as you have a
stoker.
I prefer wood chips .....here in Texas after Rita [probably going have 3 to
5yrs.
excess supply from neighbors with wind damaged trees.My chipper is electric
from the electric plant.
So there is a fuel cost on the chipping but not near that of fossil fuels in
the chippers.
Got that idea from the big companies....they haul logs into the mill,then
hog the log down for the wafer board,boiler fuel, or ???.
>
>
----== Posted via droptable.com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.droptable.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
| |
| Gunner 2005-10-04, 3:21 pm |
| On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 09:18:18 -0700, "Ulysses"
<therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>"Gunner Asch" <gunner@nospam.lightspeed.net> wrote in message
>news:icn1k1h5uhlvvar416i8s9tltlje4enr29@4ax.com...
>is
>return
>its
>people
>
>It never gets cold in the desert? You must live in a different one than me.
>
>Just kidding.
>
When its really really, record breaking cold in my part of the
desert..its around 32F Cold enough to snow once every 15 yrs or so,
and maybe freeze a couple pipes if they are exposed to the wind.
I live in California's Central Valley, at the 800' foot elevation
mark, the low end of the "high desert". I do have heating problems
when working out in my semi enclosed workshop during the winter, so I
put on an insulated coverall, insulated boots etc..but then..I grew up
in Northern Michigan and have lost most of my cold tolerence over the
last 30 yrs. Ive worked in -80F temps before..and doing that now
would likely cripple me up for days afterwards. Shrug
Gunner
>
>are
>
>Liberals don't believe facts they believe propaganda and that's why they are
>liberals. If they knew the facts they would be conservatives.
>
Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry
| |
|
|
| Offbreed 2005-10-04, 4:21 pm |
| Derek Broughton wrote:
> Do they exhaust outdoors? Where do they get their combustion air? Every
> time we have an extended winter power outage, we have deaths due to CO
> poisoning.
The cheap ones are not vented, so you have to turn up the heat and leave
a couple windows open a little. They are not adequate, IMO, for someone
with circulatory problems or a fever.
| |
|
|
"Ulysses" <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11k5aqh2c31eaba@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
> Liberals don't believe facts they believe propaganda and that's why they
> are
> liberals. If they knew the facts they would be conservatives.
>
>
Funny, I thought it was the other way round.
--
Malc
"Your mother can't climb stairs"
Dalek playground taunt
| |
| hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com 2005-10-04, 10:21 pm |
|
Derek Broughton wrote:
> Vaughn wrote:
>
> news:1128390103.426337.123560@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> Do they exhaust outdoors? Where do they get their combustion air? Every
> time we have an extended winter power outage, we have deaths due to CO
> poisoning.
Everytime we have an extended winter power outage, we have deaths due
to cold.
> I don't know either of these brands,
Aladdin is a very old name and Kerosun began advertising in the 70's.
Aladdin is no longer making heaters, but has spun off a company that
now just makes their kerosene mantle lamps. The Aladdin heaters are a
bit colletable, but their lamps are beautiful and functional.
Toyostove is a modern kerosene stove and the company makes both the
Kerosun and Toyostove models. You might want to get familiar with all
of the brands if emergency heating or lighting is something that you
might need.
www.toyostove.com
www.kerosun.com
www.aladdinlamps.com
> but most of the time these
> deaths are due to using kerosene heaters indoors.
Because they don't crack a window and/or purchase an O2 detector.
> The remainder is things
> like idiots who run a generator in their basement, so that nobody will
> steal it...
> --
> derek
That'll do it every time.
| |
| Derek Broughton 2005-10-05, 12:21 pm |
| hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote:
> Derek Broughton wrote:
>
> Everytime we have an extended winter power outage, we have deaths due
> to cold.
You'd have those anyway.
>
>
> Because they don't crack a window and/or purchase an O2 detector.
hmm. To paraphrase a safe-drinking ad: "You are your own O2 detector" :-)
CO detectors are actually mandatory in all homes here. Strangely, it hasn't
eliminated the deaths due to CO poisoning.
--
derek
| |
| Ulysses 2005-10-05, 2:21 pm |
|
"Gunner" <gunner@Nospam.lightspeed.net> wrote in message
news:rcg5k117ait7cri7okoqvkutctjt5o08ok@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 09:18:18 -0700, "Ulysses"
> <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
that[color=darkred]
gas[color=darkred]
from[color=darkred]
oxygen[color=darkred]
me.[color=darkred]
> When its really really, record breaking cold in my part of the
> desert..its around 32F Cold enough to snow once every 15 yrs or so,
> and maybe freeze a couple pipes if they are exposed to the wind.
>
> I live in California's Central Valley, at the 800' foot elevation
> mark, the low end of the "high desert". I do have heating problems
> when working out in my semi enclosed workshop during the winter, so I
> put on an insulated coverall, insulated boots etc..but then..I grew up
> in Northern Michigan and have lost most of my cold tolerence over the
> last 30 yrs. Ive worked in -80F temps before..and doing that now
> would likely cripple me up for days afterwards. Shrug
>
> Gunner
>
Where I am in the high desert of South Calif (middle Riverside County) it'll
get down to about 15 some winters and snow a few inches every few years. I
got used to being outside working on stuff for hours when it's in the 20s
but my blood ain't thick enough for -80!!!
When I lived closer to the coast (Orange, Anaheim, El Cajon etc) I thought
cold was when it got below 70.
are[color=darkred]
>
> Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
> clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals
are
> so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry
| |
| mike wilcox 2005-10-05, 3:21 pm |
| Ulysses wrote:
> "Gunner" <gunner@Nospam.lightspeed.net> wrote in message
> news:rcg5k117ait7cri7okoqvkutctjt5o08ok@4ax.com...
>
>
> that
>
>
> gas
>
>
> from
>
>
> oxygen
>
>
> me.
>
>
>
> Where I am in the high desert of South Calif (middle Riverside County) it'll
> get down to about 15 some winters and snow a few inches every few years. I
> got used to being outside working on stuff for hours when it's in the 20s
> but my blood ain't thick enough for -80!!!
>
> When I lived closer to the coast (Orange, Anaheim, El Cajon etc) I thought
> cold was when it got below 70.
>
>
>
> are
>
>
> are
>
>
>
>
Where in hell did you ( Gunner) ever work where it was -80 ? That's only
happened once in the USA that I'm aware of.
| |
|
| In article <11k8223fqr9tc80@corp.supernews.com>, "Ulysses" <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote:[color=darkred]
>
>"Gunner" <gunner@Nospam.lightspeed.net> wrote in message
>news:rcg5k117ait7cri7okoqvkutctjt5o08ok@4ax.com...
>that
>gas
>from
>oxygen
>me.
>
>Where I am in the high desert of South Calif (middle Riverside County) it'll
>get down to about 15 some winters and snow a few inches every few years. I
>got used to being outside working on stuff for hours when it's in the 20s
>but my blood ain't thick enough for -80!!!
>
>When I lived closer to the coast (Orange, Anaheim, El Cajon etc) I thought
>cold was when it got below 70.
>
>are
>are
I use Kerosene heaters for backup. Used them many times indoors. Even used them
in a canvas tent a couple times. Unfortunately my new house has just fuel oil heating,
and I look at it as costly compared to a efficient gas heater. Also used
ventless gas logs in the old house. Don't need any electric for those.
Where the hell is Barstow anybody? Lived there 5 years. In Ca. they don't let you do a bunch of
things with fire and smoke and fumes, today.
greg
| |
| daestrom 2005-10-05, 8:21 pm |
|
<hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128473413.610669.132050@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Derek Broughton wrote:
>
> Everytime we have an extended winter power outage, we have deaths due
> to cold.
>
Same here in upstate NY. But we *also* have deaths due to CO poisoning.
Folks that don't take the time to read instructions and safety bulletins
just set up their heaters and fall asleep.
daestrom
| |
| hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com 2005-10-05, 10:21 pm |
|
Derek Broughton wrote:
> hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
> You'd have those anyway.
Hmmm? If they're going to die anyway...
>
> hmm. To paraphrase a safe-drinking ad: "You are your own O2 detector" :-)
I'm unfamiliar with that ad.
> CO detectors are actually mandatory in all homes here. Strangely, it hasn't
> eliminated the deaths due to CO poisoning.
Then what is its purpose?
| |
| Bill McKee 2005-10-06, 1:21 am |
|
"mike wilcox" <appraisers@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:EGU0f.6930$2F2.679925@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Ulysses wrote:
>
>
>
> Where in hell did you ( Gunner) ever work where it was -80 ? That's only
> happened once in the USA that I'm aware of.
If he was military, they had lots of bases where it got -80. My brother
spent 3 summers at Little America in the Antartic. He said they would
see -50f storms during the summer. Greenland and the Dew Line were all cold
duty.
| |
| Pete C. 2005-10-06, 8:21 am |
| GregS wrote:
>
> In article <11k8223fqr9tc80@corp.supernews.com>, "Ulysses" <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I use Kerosene heaters for backup. Used them many times indoors. Even used them
> in a canvas tent a couple times. Unfortunately my new house has just fuel oil heating,
> and I look at it as costly compared to a efficient gas heater. Also used
> ventless gas logs in the old house. Don't need any electric for those.
> Where the hell is Barstow anybody? Lived there 5 years. In Ca. they don't let you do a bunch of
> things with fire and smoke and fumes, today.
>
> greg
You do realize that it is a mostly a myth that oil heat is less
efficient than gas don't you? It's been perpetuated by gas companies
trying to get people to convert and is generally based on comparisons of
a new gas unit to the 30+ year old oil unit the customer currently has.
When you compare a new oil unit to a new gas unit you find the
efficiencies are within a percent or two.
Two other myths with gas are it's cleanliness and safety. Again the
comparisons for emissions are often made between a new gas unit and a
30+ year old oil unit. A new oil unit does not produce more emissions
than a new gas unit. The exact composition of the emissions differ, but
the overall amount is comparable.
On the safety front I've noticed the gas companies seem to have dropped
the "safe" line from their advertising. Probably a result of a false
advertising lawsuit by the oil burner manufacturers. A great many homes
are destroyed by gas explosions each year and to date I've not heard of
a single case of a home being destroyed by an oil explosion since that
simply doesn't happen.
The major economic advantage to oil is that you can purchase your fuel
off season at a better price as it will readily store for a year. You
also have the reliability of an on site fuel supply. With gas you have
no ability to purchase off peak and store significant BTUs worth of
fuel. You also are subject to service interruptions with gas service
since you have no on-site supply.
Pete C.
| |
| Steve Thomas 2005-10-07, 9:21 am |
| Actual experience:
I too have an old house that is not exaclty air tight, and I live in
southern Canada.
For the past 3 years I have been using a recent manufacture kerosene
radiant heater for supplemental heating.
You can smell it when first entering the house, but I don't notice it after
that.
Properly adjusted, these do not give off signifigant CO, and I have level
recording CO meter that is yet to register any thing.
It is important to use the white kerosene heater fuel that is designed for
these units. Stove oil, diesel, or naptha cannot be substituted.
That being said, the best option is still a permanently installed heating
appliance that is vented outdoors.
I am seriously considering a wood stove, even though I live in a fairly
dense neighbourhood.
The EPA rated stoves don't smoke much when used properly.
| |
| Ulysses 2005-10-07, 12:21 pm |
|
"GregS" <szekeres@pitt.edu> wrote in message
news:di1cgs$9an$2@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu...
> In article <11k8223fqr9tc80@corp.supernews.com>, "Ulysses"
<therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote:
the[color=darkred]
the[color=darkred]
pipes[color=darkred]
if[color=darkred]
of[color=darkred]
mainly[color=darkred]
be[color=darkred]
And[color=darkred]
there[color=darkred]
things.[color=darkred]
bad[color=darkred]
and[color=darkred]
It[color=darkred]
I'd[color=darkred]
and[color=darkred]
What[color=darkred]
house,[color=darkred]
than[color=darkred]
it'll[color=darkred]
I[color=darkred]
thought[color=darkred]
Liberals[color=darkred]
they[color=darkred]
>
>
> I use Kerosene heaters for backup. Used them many times indoors. Even used
them
> in a canvas tent a couple times. Unfortunately my new house has just fuel
oil heating,
> and I look at it as costly compared to a efficient gas heater. Also used
> ventless gas logs in the old house. Don't need any electric for those.
> Where the hell is Barstow anybody? Lived there 5 years. In Ca. they don't
let you do a bunch of
> things with fire and smoke and fumes, today.
>
I'm amazed sometimes at what they WILL let you do. They actually sell both
kerosene and propane heaters at the local hardware store near here. They
used to let hot air balloons land in the middle of the dry chaparal in the
middle of an extreme fire hazard area in the middle of fire season but I
guess enough people questioned the wisdom of this and we hardly ever see
them any more. They still let people ride dirt bikes in some places even
though they are suspected of starting fires that burned down numerous homes.
Did you ever have any brush fires in Barstow? It doesn't seem like there is
much to burn out there but a few cacti.
>
| |
|
| In article <43450446.44907417@snet.net>, "Pete C." <aux3.DOH.4@snet.net> wrote:
>GregS wrote:
> <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote:
> them
> heating,
> you do a bunch of
>
>You do realize that it is a mostly a myth that oil heat is less
>efficient than gas don't you? It's been perpetuated by gas companies
>trying to get people to convert and is generally based on comparisons of
>a new gas unit to the 30+ year old oil unit the customer currently has.
>When you compare a new oil unit to a new gas unit you find the
>efficiencies are within a percent or two.
>
>Two other myths with gas are it's cleanliness and safety. Again the
>comparisons for emissions are often made between a new gas unit and a
>30+ year old oil unit. A new oil unit does not produce more emissions
>than a new gas unit. The exact composition of the emissions differ, but
>the overall amount is comparable.
>
>On the safety front I've noticed the gas companies seem to have dropped
>the "safe" line from their advertising. Probably a result of a false
>advertising lawsuit by the oil burner manufacturers. A great many homes
>are destroyed by gas explosions each year and to date I've not heard of
>a single case of a home being destroyed by an oil explosion since that
>simply doesn't happen.
>
>The major economic advantage to oil is that you can purchase your fuel
>off season at a better price as it will readily store for a year. You
>also have the reliability of an on site fuel supply. With gas you have
>no ability to purchase off peak and store significant BTUs worth of
>fuel. You also are subject to service interruptions with gas service
>since you have no on-site supply.
>
>Pete C.
Buying off season is real nice. I really don't know the efficiency of the new best furnaces.
I don't want to buy a new fuel oil furnace, because they cost more, and have more
upkeep. With doubling of fuel prices recently, it
just does not seem economical.
greg
| |
| me@privacy.net 2005-10-07, 1:21 pm |
| "Steve Thomas" <sthoma20_lowspam_@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> For the past 3 years I have been using a recent manufacture kerosene
>radiant heater for supplemental heating.
Do you feel the radiant models make more sense than the
convection models?
| |
|
| In article <11kd3koijvksp28@corp.supernews.com>, "Ulysses" <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>"GregS" <szekeres@pitt.edu> wrote in message
>news:di1cgs$9an$2@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu...
><therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote:
>the
>the
>pipes
>if
>of
>mainly
>be
>And
>there
>things.
>bad
>and
>It
>I'd
>and
>What
>house,
>than
>it'll
>I
>thought
>Liberals
>they
>them
>oil heating,
>let you do a bunch of
>
>I'm amazed sometimes at what they WILL let you do. They actually sell both
>kerosene and propane heaters at the local hardware store near here. They
>used to let hot air balloons land in the middle of the dry chaparal in the
>middle of an extreme fire hazard area in the middle of fire season but I
>guess enough people questioned the wisdom of this and we hardly ever see
>them any more. They still let people ride dirt bikes in some places even
>though they are suspected of starting fires that burned down numerous homes.
>Did you ever have any brush fires in Barstow? It doesn't seem like there is
>much to burn out there but a few cacti.
>
I don't know of any paticular fires. I do remember having brush fires in the real high desert
of El Paso Texas. I was realy in NM just nort of El Paso. The Nike missles
created some nice fires. Snows more there than around Vegas.
greg
| |
| Pete C. 2005-10-07, 4:21 pm |
| GregS wrote:
>
<extraneous stuff snipped>
>
> Buying off season is real nice. I really don't know the efficiency of the new best furnaces.
> I don't want to buy a new fuel oil furnace, because they cost more, and have more
> upkeep. With doubling of fuel prices recently, it
> just does not seem economical.
>
> greg
With oil you can buy off season, you have a reliable fuel supply
on-site, multiple vendors you can buy fuel from, an oil leak will make
your house stink for a bit vs. blow it up, etc.
The condensing gas furnaces are slightly more efficient by 1 or 2
percent, not a real significant amount. Most oil furnaces are better
built and last longer than most gas furnaces, the main reason they cost
more. Of course the high end units like Buderus are equally good for gas
or oil. The Riello burners are particularly nice.
Upkeep is really comparable between gas and oil, for both you should
have the unit serviced annually for safety. If you defer this annual
service for either type you are likely to encounter problems. An out of
tune gas unit is more likely to create a safety hazard than an out of
tune oil unit. In both cases efficiency will suffer without annual
maintenance.
With those doubling fuel prices, remember that gas cost is increasing as
well and you are locked into purchasing your fuel at current prices from
a single monopolistic source. A lot of commercial installations run dual
fuel burners so they can switch between oil and gas depending on the
price. I haven't seen any dual fuel units in residential sizes though
and you'd still be getting whacked with service charges even if you were
not using gas.
Pete C.
| |
|
| OK, I haven't seen this mentioned yet, so I figure it's probably the wrong
move, but....
I have a gas stove/oven that I use for cooking all the time. Starts with a
lighter, so no electricity is needed at all. If the power goes out,
anything wrong with using it to heat the kitchen so I have at least one warm
room? If, as I suspect, the problem is the pollution it puts into the air,
am I not killing myself when I use it for normal cooking? There is a fan
over the stove that vents outside.
FWIW, I *did* use it this way a couple of years ago. My furnace broke down
and the repairman said it would take a week to get the replacement part. We
didn't seem to suffer any ill effects, but then I only needed it a couple of
hours a day.
| |
| me@privacy.net 2005-10-07, 6:21 pm |
| "Kitep" <royjunk_nospam@cinci.rr.com> wrote:
>I have a gas stove/oven that I use for cooking all the time. Starts with a
>lighter, so no electricity is needed at all. If the power goes out,
>anything wrong with using it to heat the kitchen so I have at least one warm
>room?
Good question
Hope someone gives a definitive answer.
| |
| Dave Hinz 2005-10-07, 6:21 pm |
| On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 15:22:00 -0500, me@privacy.net <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> "Kitep" <royjunk_nospam@cinci.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> Good question
> Hope someone gives a definitive answer.
Other than that it probably won't work. Many stoves have an
electrically powered solenoid which turns the gas supply on and off.
| |
| Steve Spence 2005-10-07, 6:21 pm |
| Dave Hinz wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 15:22:00 -0500, me@privacy.net <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> Other than that it probably won't work. Many stoves have an
> electrically powered solenoid which turns the gas supply on and off.
>
Our propane stove is not globar controlled, it's pilot light based
thermal valve. No electric hookup.
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| Dave Hinz 2005-10-07, 6:21 pm |
| On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 17:09:49 -0400, Steve Spence <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote:
> Dave Hinz wrote:
[color=darkred]
> Our propane stove is not globar controlled, it's pilot light based
> thermal valve. No electric hookup.
Hm, ours isn't; I tested it. That'd be nice to have...
| |
|
|
| Steve Thomas 2005-10-07, 7:21 pm |
| Yes,
the radiant heat heats objects in the room at or above the floor
level.
The heated air from a convection model rises to the ceiling.
<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:db7dk1lemlllgrb4nc5v8qihl6kb3ikc2k@4ax.com...
> "Steve Thomas" <sthoma20_lowspam_@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Do you feel the radiant models make more sense than the
> convection models?
| |
| Richard W. 2005-10-08, 2:21 am |
|
"Ulysses" <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11k8223fqr9tc80@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Gunner" <gunner@Nospam.lightspeed.net> wrote in message
> news:rcg5k117ait7cri7okoqvkutctjt5o08ok@4ax.com...
than[color=darkred]
> me.
>
> Where I am in the high desert of South Calif (middle Riverside County)
it'll
> get down to about 15 some winters and snow a few inches every few years.
I
> got used to being outside working on stuff for hours when it's in the 20s
> but my blood ain't thick enough for -80!!!
>
> When I lived closer to the coast (Orange, Anaheim, El Cajon etc) I thought
> cold was when it got below 70.
I was visiting my wifes uncle in eastern Oregon at Christmas a few years
back. I think it was a -10F most of the time. They had very little snow and
when you drove down the highway the snow blew around like dust behind the
car. Kinda reminded me of driving on a dusty gravel road.
| |
| Solar Flare 2005-10-08, 6:21 pm |
| Any radiant heat I have experienced has been a joke. Sweat on one side and
chill on the other.
Not very comfortable at all until it heats the air in the room.
Now that ain't radiant comfort then.
"Steve Thomas" <sthoma20_lowspam_@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:diC1f.8821$2F2.1125152@news20.bellglobal.com...
: Yes,
: the radiant heat heats objects in the room at or above the floor
: level.
: The heated air from a convection model rises to the ceiling.
:
: <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
: news:db7dk1lemlllgrb4nc5v8qihl6kb3ikc2k@4ax.com...
: > "Steve Thomas" <sthoma20_lowspam_@sympatico.ca> wrote:
: >
: > > For the past 3 years I have been using a recent manufacture kerosene
: > >radiant heater for supplemental heating.
: >
: > Do you feel the radiant models make more sense than the
: > convection models?
:
:
| |
| Pete C. 2005-10-08, 7:21 pm |
| Solar Flare wrote:
>
> Any radiant heat I have experienced has been a joke. Sweat on one side and
> chill on the other.
>
> Not very comfortable at all until it heats the air in the room.
>
> Now that ain't radiant comfort then.
The commercial overhead tubular radiant heaters that have a gas burner
at one end and the chimney at the other end work exceedingly well, even
adjacent to large open dock doors in the dead of winter. One of the keys
is that they are mounted high enough so that the radiant beam angle
covers the entire floor space below.
Pete C.
| |
| Rolland Everitt 2005-10-09, 5:21 pm |
| I live in New England, where winters are moderately cold. I use oil heat
primarily, but also have a couple of Kerosun kerosene heaters. I used these
for years on a daily basis, but now I just keep them for emergencies. They
are not vented, which means there must be some ventilation. They stink when
you first light them. They are excellent for auxiliary heat in a shed or
garage, or in the house in an emergency.
"SurvivalCache" <SurvivalCache@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1128407789.530902.112920@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=217629
> awesome emergency heaters.
>
> Sandman
> http://SurvivalCache.com
>
>
> John wrote:
>
| |
| Jens Kr. Kirkebø 2005-10-09, 8:21 pm |
| On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 11:02:31 GMT, "Pete C." <aux3.DOH.4@snet.net>
wrote:
>The major economic advantage to oil is that you can purchase your fuel
>off season at a better price as it will readily store for a year. You
>also have the reliability of an on site fuel supply. With gas you have
>no ability to purchase off peak and store significant BTUs worth of
>fuel. You also are subject to service interruptions with gas service
>since you have no on-site supply.
Well, this depends on you location I guess. Over here, we have no gas
lines. Many people still use gas for heating, they just have to find a
place for a big (2.4m2) gas tank. They can buy it off-season just like
oil and there's no interuptions.
| |
| G M D 2005-10-09, 10:21 pm |
| I use kerosine heater when power goes out. was out for 5 days last winter
here in Nova scotia.
Have to leave a window cracked, but it actually heated the place up to over
80 degrees, I keep it at 68 usually on oil.
Gerry in NS
"wmbjk" <wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net> wrote in message
news:jre2k1t1d97v8jt3e8qg8o68uc4rhraiir@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 07:32:42 GMT, Gunner Asch
> <gunner@nospam.lightspeed.net> wrote:
>
>
> Don't be setting power loose! The first thing it will do is make you
> untie other stuff.
>
>
> See, I told ya'.
>
> Wayne
| |
|
| In article <4346BCAA.4FA7B079@snet.net>, "Pete C." <aux3.DOH.4@snet.net> wrote:
>GregS wrote:
>
><extraneous stuff snipped>
>
> best furnaces.
> more
>
>With oil you can buy off season, you have a reliable fuel supply
>on-site, multiple vendors you can buy fuel from, an oil leak will make
>your house stink for a bit vs. blow it up, etc.
>
>The condensing gas furnaces are slightly more efficient by 1 or 2
>percent, not a real significant amount. Most oil furnaces are better
>built and last longer than most gas furnaces, the main reason they cost
>more. Of course the high end units like Buderus are equally good for gas
>or oil. The Riello burners are particularly nice.
>
>Upkeep is really comparable between gas and oil, for both you should
>have the unit serviced annually for safety. If you defer this annual
>service for either type you are likely to encounter problems. An out of
>tune gas unit is more likely to create a safety hazard than an out of
>tune oil unit. In both cases efficiency will suffer without annual
>maintenance.
>
>With those doubling fuel prices, remember that gas cost is increasing as
>well and you are locked into purchasing your fuel at current prices from
>a single monopolistic source. A lot of commercial installations run dual
>fuel burners so they can switch between oil and gas depending on the
>price. I haven't seen any dual fuel units in residential sizes though
>and you'd still be getting whacked with service charges even if you were
>not using gas.
>
>Pete C.
I'll have the winter to get used | | |