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Manufacture your own solar panels. . .from scratch
|
|
| Gresford 2005-10-12, 9:21 am |
| Can anyone tell me what it would take to make your own solar panels?
When I say that I mean soldering the cells to create your own solar
energy matrix. Are there any resources (web, good books)? Is this
cheaper than buying from a retailer? Or am I out of my mind?
Thanks,
Gresford Thomas
| |
| Christian Kaiser 2005-10-12, 10:21 am |
| Of course it's possible.
Problems are:
- it may be cheaper or not, that depends how much your time is worth
- you may need to either make the panels larger than commercial ones, or get
special solar materials (optimal absorption in the visible range, minimal in
infrared, special glass, ...), which are expensive
- the connection of the absorber with the pipes is critical, but not easy to
do
Advantage:
- you can make forms as you wish, even fill a triangular shape below the
roof rim, etc
I have a book of a firm that sells (or at least did sell in 199x) pipes
connected with absorbers, that you can solder together in shapes as you
like.
I would suggest
- either get ready-made collectors, or at least
- get the aborbers/pipes pre-manufactured
If you have a lot of space, you can find cheaper methods to build it all
yourself, but it will take some time to find optimal parts.
Christian
"Gresford" <gresford@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1129115995.808089.139150@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Can anyone tell me what it would take to make your own solar panels?
> When I say that I mean soldering the cells to create your own solar
> energy matrix. Are there any resources (web, good books)? Is this
> cheaper than buying from a retailer? Or am I out of my mind?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gresford Thomas
>
| |
|
|
| R.H. Allen 2005-10-12, 11:21 am |
| Gresford wrote:
> Can anyone tell me what it would take to make your own solar panels?
> When I say that I mean soldering the cells to create your own solar
> energy matrix. Are there any resources (web, good books)? Is this
> cheaper than buying from a retailer? Or am I out of my mind?
Sure it's possible, but I would recommend it only as an educational
exercise because you're not going to do it cheaper. For starters,
manufacturers buy the parts and materials needed in far larger
quantities than you would and get much better prices as a result. In
addition, some of the materials you would need -- assuming you're
looking to make a panel that will produce as much energy and last as
long in the field as one that you purchase from a dealer -- are
difficult to find.
For example, household window glass won't cut it, but you're not going
to find the high-transparency stuff used in PV panels at your local
glass dealer. You will have similar trouble finding a suitable silicone
with which to encapsulate the cells under the glass -- the stuff you'll
find at the hardware store won't be as transparent and will likely have
a higher acid content, which will be detrimental to your electrical
connections. It will probably also turn brown when exposed to UV light.
Even if you do find the right materials, you will need to assemble them
just as well as they would have at the factory if you want them to last
as long in the field as factory-made panels. That is a *very* difficult
task that will require a number of false starts (and, therefore, wasted
money) before you get it right.
Finally, let's say you'd be happy with a lower-quality panel that won't
last as long in the field as a factory-made one as long as you can save
a few bucks. The solar cells alone will probably cost you at least 65%
of what a finished panel would, so even if you get the other materials
for free and value your own labor at zero, you would still need the
panel to last 20 years just to break even -- and that's assuming you use
the right materials to get maximum power output. If you use ordinary
window glass, say, then you'd likely need the panel to last 25 or 30
years to get electricity at the same cost as a factory-made panel --
about the same life you would expect from a factory-made panel.
| |
| Too_Many_Tools 2005-10-12, 12:21 pm |
| Allen, you wouldn't be a dealer would you? ;< )
In all seriousness, if your application can use a commercial panel that
is the way to go.
At the same time if you need a custom panel or have access to the
proper materials/skills, there is no reason not to build.
TMT
| |
| GeekBoy 2005-10-12, 12:21 pm |
|
"Gresford" <gresford@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1129115995.808089.139150@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Can anyone tell me what it would take to make your own solar panels?
> When I say that I mean soldering the cells to create your own solar
> energy matrix. Are there any resources (web, good books)? Is this
> cheaper than buying from a retailer? Or am I out of my mind?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gresford Thomas
In electonics pubs, scratch woudl mean even making your own cells.
>
| |
| Christian Kaiser 2005-10-12, 1:21 pm |
| Are we talking PV or DHW panels?
Christian
"R.H. Allen" <kkarie@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:_pydnbWwrtzQidDeRVn-jQ@giganews.com...
> Gresford wrote:
>
> Sure it's possible, but I would recommend it only as an educational
> exercise because you're not going to do it cheaper. For starters,
> manufacturers buy the parts and materials needed in far larger
> quantities than you would and get much better prices as a result. In
> addition, some of the materials you would need -- assuming you're
> looking to make a panel that will produce as much energy and last as
> long in the field as one that you purchase from a dealer -- are
> difficult to find.
>
> For example, household window glass won't cut it, but you're not going
> to find the high-transparency stuff used in PV panels at your local
> glass dealer. You will have similar trouble finding a suitable silicone
> with which to encapsulate the cells under the glass -- the stuff you'll
> find at the hardware store won't be as transparent and will likely have
> a higher acid content, which will be detrimental to your electrical
> connections. It will probably also turn brown when exposed to UV light.
>
> Even if you do find the right materials, you will need to assemble them
> just as well as they would have at the factory if you want them to last
> as long in the field as factory-made panels. That is a *very* difficult
> task that will require a number of false starts (and, therefore, wasted
> money) before you get it right.
>
> Finally, let's say you'd be happy with a lower-quality panel that won't
> last as long in the field as a factory-made one as long as you can save
> a few bucks. The solar cells alone will probably cost you at least 65%
> of what a finished panel would, so even if you get the other materials
> for free and value your own labor at zero, you would still need the
> panel to last 20 years just to break even -- and that's assuming you use
> the right materials to get maximum power output. If you use ordinary
> window glass, say, then you'd likely need the panel to last 25 or 30
> years to get electricity at the same cost as a factory-made panel --
> about the same life you would expect from a factory-made panel.
| |
| Steve Spence 2005-10-12, 1:21 pm |
| GeekBoy wrote:
> "Gresford" <gresford@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1129115995.808089.139150@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
> In electonics pubs, scratch woudl mean even making your own cells.
>
>
>
>
not really. we don't assume folks would make their own transistors ....
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
|
|
| GeekBoy 2005-10-12, 1:21 pm |
|
"Steve Spence" <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote in message
news:AP93f.3374$Hm3.843@fe09.lga...
> GeekBoy wrote:
> not really. we don't assume folks would make their own transistors ....
>
true true when you could just buy them for pennies.
> --
> Steve Spence
> Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
> Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
> http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca 2005-10-12, 5:21 pm |
| On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:03:39 -0700, "GeekBoy" <GeeksRUs@geek.com>
wrote:
>
>"Steve Spence" <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote in message
>news:AP93f.3374$Hm3.843@fe09.lga...
>
>true true when you could just buy them for pennies.
Back when we built crystal radios, scratch meant making your own
detector and winding your own coils - AND making your own tuning cap,
if it was cap tuned. Sulphur and lead to make Galina crystals, IIRC -
or selenium coated "blue" razor blades were common.
>
>
>
| |
|
| I'm trying to figure out if rewiring a 12v panel to 2.7v to charge one
of those 2600 Farad Maxwell Boostcaps would gain anything. The
individual cells are about .44v and a couple amps. 5 or 6 in series
would just match up to a 2.7v boostcap. Then a custom dc to dc
converter that could sniff the boostcap from about .5 to 2.7v and pwm
the output to 14.4v or something useful. Good holdup during quick
flybys of clouds is the only advantage I can think of so far..... If
anyone else thinks this is a good idea because _______ please report
back
| |
| Eric Sears 2005-10-12, 8:21 pm |
| Well you've had lots of comments - so I will just tell you what I've
actually done.
About 4 or 5 years ago, when panels were about NZ$11- 13 a watt here
for the larger sizes (80w), I imported "blemished" and broken cells
from US at about NZ$3.50 a watt (included postage, taxes etc). Most of
these were for a friend who ran his remote house on microhydro and
solar. He built about 10 X50 watts panels, costing about NZ$5 a watt
when finished. These included aluminium frames, with standard glass
front and plastic back, sealed with silicone. He subsequently
subdivided his property, sold that house and built a new one, but as
far as I know the solar panels are still working fine.
It WAS a lot of work, but he said it was worthwhile and since he had
little employment at the time - it was a great help.
The solar cell company provided good information with the cells to
help with the process of soldering.
I still have about 300 watts of the cells here (to use on a holiday
home) - but have also since imported solar laminates which are
probably a better deal.
One advantage of making your own is that you can make "custom-size"
panels to some extent - eg square ones to fit inside a roof under
transluscent sheet for security where you only want a trickle charge.
Or lower voltage panels if you need them.
I was lucky enough to be given over 100 sheets of thin window glass,
about 16" x 20" - make good 4 volt or 6 volt panels.
Just my tuppence worth
Eric Sears
On 12 Oct 2005 04:19:55 -0700, "Gresford" <gresford@gmail.com> wrote:
>Can anyone tell me what it would take to make your own solar panels?
>When I say that I mean soldering the cells to create your own solar
>energy matrix. Are there any resources (web, good books)? Is this
>cheaper than buying from a retailer? Or am I out of my mind?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Gresford Thomas
>
| |
| Solar Flare 2005-10-12, 10:21 pm |
| We smelted out own lead, machined razor blades and pulled our own copper to make
the conductors too. We built from "Scratch" not like the sisies today....LOL
Give it a rest. You carried your whole family to work on your backs and it was
uphill both ways I' bet?....LOL
<nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca> wrote in message
news:tipqk1dgc4vjpqgf8vk861nam9bc65iv8a@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:03:39 -0700, "GeekBoy" <GeeksRUs@geek.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> Back when we built crystal radios, scratch meant making your own
> detector and winding your own coils - AND making your own tuning cap,
> if it was cap tuned. Sulphur and lead to make Galina crystals, IIRC -
> or selenium coated "blue" razor blades were common.
>
| |
| Bob Wennerstrom 2005-10-13, 12:21 am |
|
R.H. Allen wrote:
>
> Sure it's possible, but I would recommend it only as an educational
> exercise because you're not going to do it cheaper. For starters,
> manufacturers buy the parts and materials needed in far larger
> quantities than you would and get much better prices as a result. In
> addition, some of the materials you would need -- assuming you're
> looking to make a panel that will produce as much energy and last as
> long in the field as one that you purchase from a dealer -- are
> difficult to find.
>
> For example, household window glass won't cut it, but you're not going
> to find the high-transparency stuff used in PV panels at your local
> glass dealer. You will have similar trouble finding a suitable silicone
> with which to encapsulate the cells under the glass -- the stuff you'll
> find at the hardware store won't be as transparent and will likely have
> a higher acid content, which will be detrimental to your electrical
> connections. It will probably also turn brown when exposed to UV light.
>
> Even if you do find the right materials, you will need to assemble them
> just as well as they would have at the factory if you want them to last
> as long in the field as factory-made panels. That is a *very* difficult
> task that will require a number of false starts (and, therefore, wasted
> money) before you get it right.
>
> Finally, let's say you'd be happy with a lower-quality panel that won't
> last as long in the field as a factory-made one as long as you can save
> a few bucks. The solar cells alone will probably cost you at least 65%
> of what a finished panel would, so even if you get the other materials
> for free and value your own labor at zero, you would still need the
> panel to last 20 years just to break even -- and that's assuming you use
> the right materials to get maximum power output. If you use ordinary
> window glass, say, then you'd likely need the panel to last 25 or 30
> years to get electricity at the same cost as a factory-made panel --
> about the same life you would expect from a factory-made panel.
Word...
I built over 600 watts of panels from surplus Evergreen cells last
spring, this is back when the cells were less than $50/lb. I just saw an
Ebay auction for the same cells close at over three times that price.
I got my tempered glass for free and sealed them up in a glass shop as
one would a double pane window (no silicone sandwich, just an airspace
and a dessicant) By the time I was done, I had over $2/watt into them
but they haven't been out in the weather yet and I'd be suprised to get
5 years without moisture between the panes.
As for my educational exercise, I wish I had bought a couple of BP
sx170's back when they were about $4/watt, rather than spend the hours
and hours it took to solder over 3000 connections by hand, tote these
back and forth to the glass shop, and worry about durability.
I find your analysis to be spot on, and this is from a guy who has been
there-done that.
| |
| Anthony Matonak 2005-10-13, 12:21 am |
| BobG wrote:
> I'm trying to figure out if rewiring a 12v panel to 2.7v to charge one
> of those 2600 Farad Maxwell Boostcaps would gain anything. The
> individual cells are about .44v and a couple amps. 5 or 6 in series
> would just match up to a 2.7v boostcap. Then a custom dc to dc
> converter that could sniff the boostcap from about .5 to 2.7v and pwm
> the output to 14.4v or something useful. Good holdup during quick
> flybys of clouds is the only advantage I can think of so far..... If
> anyone else thinks this is a good idea because _______ please report
> back
You might find it easier to just put 5 or 6 of those bootcaps in
series to match the voltages. Then again, it would be much cheaper
to simply use a 12V battery. If you are concerned about getting the
most energy into your batteries then a MPP (Maximum Power Point)
charge controller sounds like a better idea.
Anthony
| |
| ewitte@hotmail.com 2005-10-13, 8:21 am |
| Have any of you tried the screen-printing method of creating cells?
The PDFS I have seem pretty simple and cheap if I knew how to
screen-print  I'm talking pennies per watt not $. It seems about
the same as those new flexible panels.
| |
| R.H. Allen 2005-10-13, 11:21 am |
| Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> Allen, you wouldn't be a dealer would you? ;< )
No, but I've assembled PV panels from scratch before. The panels I
assembled were done in the style of satellite panels, so there are some
differences compared to commercial panels, but the steps are very
similar. Without a *very* strong need for a custom panel there's no way
I would ever consider doing it again, and I would expect it to cost at
least as much as a commercial panel (particularly if my time were taken
into account) and last nowhere near as long.
| |
| Anthony Matonak 2005-10-13, 1:21 pm |
| ewitte@hotmail.com wrote:
> Have any of you tried the screen-printing method of creating cells?
> The PDFS I have seem pretty simple and cheap if I knew how to
> screen-print I'm talking pennies per watt not $. It seems about
> the same as those new flexible panels.
I haven't heard of this method. Can you give the URL to any of these
PDFs? To the best of my knowledge, creating PV cells of any efficiency
and longevity requires the use of fairly exotic equipment.
Anthony
| |
| Steve Spence 2005-10-13, 1:21 pm |
| Anthony Matonak wrote:
> ewitte@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> I haven't heard of this method. Can you give the URL to any of these
> PDFs? To the best of my knowledge, creating PV cells of any efficiency
> and longevity requires the use of fairly exotic equipment.
>
> Anthony
I wonder what material they think they will screen print with? Maybe
somebody is confused with circuit board etching ....
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| ewitte@hotmail.com 2005-10-14, 3:21 pm |
|
Steve Spence wrote:
> Anthony Matonak wrote:
>
> I wonder what material they think they will screen print with? Maybe
> somebody is confused with circuit board etching ....
They are different metals. I was going to offer to email the PDF to
everyone but I'll do one even better. I'll have it available to dl off
my 1&l account by the end of the weekend and post back.
Eric
| |
| Steve Spence 2005-10-14, 3:21 pm |
| ewitte@hotmail.com wrote:
> Steve Spence wrote:
>
>
>
> They are different metals. I was going to offer to email the PDF to
> everyone but I'll do one even better. I'll have it available to dl off
> my 1&l account by the end of the weekend and post back.
>
> Eric
>
Still not sure what the point is. You don't make pv from etchings or
silkscreening, you make them from growing silicon crystals and doping
the junctions with boron and phosphorous.
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| William P. N. Smith 2005-10-14, 4:21 pm |
| Steve Spence <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote:
>Still not sure what the point is. You don't make pv from etchings or
>silkscreening, you make them from growing silicon crystals and doping
>the junctions with boron and phosphorous.
I _think_ you make amorphous cells by screen printing and then firing,
but I'm a little fuzzy on the details. I know Uni-Solar makes them on
a long stainless-steel roll. Ah, here it is:
http://www.uni-solar.com/interior.asp?id=67 says it's continuous
multi-layer vapor deposition. Maybe someone else {does,used to do}
screen printing?
Every once in a while the hypsters get ahold of the process and morph
it into "you can paint your {roof,house} with solar cells!", but that
only works if your {roof,house} is a good substrate, and you can fire
it between layers, and you if you ignore interconnects, encapsulation,
thermal expansion, etc.
For some reason, amorphous solar power isn't any less expensive than
{mono,poly}crystal silicon processes. Imagine that! 8*)
| |
| Steve Spence 2005-10-14, 4:21 pm |
| William P. N. Smith wrote:
> Steve Spence <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> I _think_ you make amorphous cells by screen printing and then firing,
> but I'm a little fuzzy on the details. I know Uni-Solar makes them on
> a long stainless-steel roll. Ah, here it is:
> http://www.uni-solar.com/interior.asp?id=67 says it's continuous
> multi-layer vapor deposition. Maybe someone else {does,used to do}
> screen printing?
>
>
> Every once in a while the hypsters get ahold of the process and morph
> it into "you can paint your {roof,house} with solar cells!", but that
> only works if your {roof,house} is a good substrate, and you can fire
> it between layers, and you if you ignore interconnects, encapsulation,
> thermal expansion, etc.
>
> For some reason, amorphous solar power isn't any less expensive than
> {mono,poly}crystal silicon processes. Imagine that! 8*)
It's not a process anyone is going to be able to do in their kitchen:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/libr...n_Photovoltaics
http://tinyurl.com/93kuw
20 years later, and $0.70 / watt still isn't here, and the 4% efficiency
hasn't improved much.
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| Mike McWilliams 2005-10-14, 5:21 pm |
| Steve Spence wrote:
> William P. N. Smith wrote:
>
>
>
> It's not a process anyone is going to be able to do in their kitchen:
>
> http://www.motherearthnews.com/libr...n_Photovoltaics
>
>
> http://tinyurl.com/93kuw
>
> 20 years later, and $0.70 / watt still isn't here, and the 4% efficiency
> hasn't improved much.
>
>
from the article:
between $10 and $20 per watt. As production rises and sales increase,
however (and the Japanese seem intent on making sure that both do
happen), the cost will likely drop dramatically. perhaps by as early as
1985 you'll be able to buy amorphous cells for less than $1.00 per watt.
And by 1990 . . . who knows?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
so whats the price per watt now? I've seen around 5$ per watt on 100
watt+ panels...
| |
| William P. N. Smith 2005-10-14, 6:21 pm |
| Steve Spence <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote:
>20 years later, and $0.70 / watt still isn't here, and the 4% efficiency
>hasn't improved much.
Uni-Solar is quoting 8% efficiency with their triple-junction process,
and I'm finding $4.70/watt on the WWWeb...
Steve, you should know better than anyone that buck-a-watt solar of
_any_ technology is 10 years away, just like it has been for the last
three decades! 8*)
| |
| Arnold Walker 2005-10-14, 7:21 pm |
|
<William P. N. Smith> wrote in message
news:2660l19rj6snhaqqve0l44ih36m40m4rbv@4ax.com...
> Steve Spence <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote:
>
> Uni-Solar is quoting 8% efficiency with their triple-junction process,
> and I'm finding $4.70/watt on the WWWeb...
>
> Steve, you should know better than anyone that buck-a-watt solar of
> _any_ technology is 10 years away, just like it has been for the last
> three decades! 8*)
What puzzles, this steamer is ,if we are talking something that can be done
in a home shop
or kitchen with standard "hardware store parts".
Why are we talking PV's that maybe...might get 8% in an industrial
production shop?
Instead of solar steamplants that maybe.....might get as bad as 8%.
----== Posted via droptable.com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.droptable.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
| |
| ewitte@hotmail.com 2005-10-14, 7:21 pm |
| > > They are different metals. I was going to offer to email the PDF to
>
> Still not sure what the point is. You don't make pv from etchings or
> silkscreening, you make them from growing silicon crystals and doping
> the junctions with boron and phosphorous.
Is PV different than solar? There are definately different ways to do
solar. I know for one you can do it with copper and buring one side.
Although any power you get from that specific proceedure will be a lot
lower than commercially available panels.
Eric
| |
|
|
"R.H. Allen" <kkarie@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B5ydnS8hEZba9NPeRVn-ug@giganews.com...
> Too_Many_Tools wrote:
>
> No, but I've assembled PV panels from scratch before. The panels I
> assembled were done in the style of satellite panels, so there are some
> differences compared to commercial panels, but the steps are very similar.
> Without a *very* strong need for a custom panel there's no way I would
> ever consider doing it again, and I would expect it to cost at least as
> much as a commercial panel (particularly if my time were taken into
> account) and last nowhere near as long.
Last long? What goes bad?
| |
|
|
| R.H. Allen 2005-10-15, 2:21 pm |
| Nog wrote:
> "R.H. Allen" <kkarie@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:B5ydnS8hEZba9NPeRVn-ug@giganews.com...
>
>
>
> Last long? What goes bad?
A lot of things can go bad when something is exposed to the elements
year after year. The PV industry has spent the last 30 years learning
what those things are and figuring out how to protect against them -- PV
modules have not always been warrantied for 20+ years. Keeping water out
of the modules is really quite difficult, and a home-built panel is very
likely to have problems with water causing corrosion of the electrical
connections. Delamination of the silicone pottant from the glass is also
an issue -- aside from allowing water to enter the module, it creates a
light-reflective air pocket between the glass and the cells, cutting
energy production. If the frame is not well assembled or the glass is
not properly supported, the panel will be much more susceptible to
physical damage from hail, flying debris, and animals. And if the
builder uses substandard materials it can also affect the useful life of
the module. Silicone from the hardware store, for example, is likely to
contain more corrosion-inducing acetic acid and will almost certainly
turn brown after several years exposure to UV light.
| |
|
|
| R.H. Allen 2005-10-15, 2:21 pm |
| ewitte@hotmail.com wrote:
> For everyone that wants to take a look at what I'm describing. This
> PDF describes several different ways of making PV cells. I'm referring
> to the screen print method.
>
> http://s120570057.onlinehome.us/ima...lar%20Cells.pdf
The "screen print method" outlined in your PDF is a means of making
cadmium telluride solar cells. In theory, they can have very good
efficiencies and have looked quite good in the laboratory. In
production, however, it has proven difficult to deposit the layers with
uniform quality. As a result, production yields and efficiencies have
been low. Just something to consider for folks who might like to try
this -- it will probably be quite sensitive to the cleanliness of your
workspace and your chemicals, and the thickness and uniformity of the
layers you print.
Oh, and be *exceedingly* careful if you're going to mess with cadmium
and tellurium. Keep them out of your kitchen, and don't be stupid enough
to heat them in an oven or grill that you plan to prepare food in later.
| |
| R.H. Allen 2005-10-15, 2:21 pm |
| William P. N. Smith wrote:
> Steve Spence <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> I _think_ you make amorphous cells by screen printing and then firing,
> but I'm a little fuzzy on the details. I know Uni-Solar makes them on
> a long stainless-steel roll. Ah, here it is:
> http://www.uni-solar.com/interior.asp?id=67 says it's continuous
> multi-layer vapor deposition. Maybe someone else {does,used to do}
> screen printing?
As you discovered on your own, amorphous silicon cells are made by vapor
deposition. The only PV-related screen-printing I'm aware of is that
used to apply the metal contacts to crystalline silicon solar cells. The
manufacturing methods for some of the organic PV technologies that are
still in the R&D phase have been compared to traditional printing
technologies, but I don't think they mean screen-printing when they say
that.
| |
| William P. N. Smith 2005-10-15, 3:21 pm |
| ewitte@hotmail.com wrote:
>http://s120570057.onlinehome.us/ima...lar%20Cells.pdf
That's an incredible mixmaster document, comprising some stuff on
screen printing, some stuff on copper solar cells, vague mentions of
cadmium sulfide solar cells, some stuff on making t-shirts, and a
couple of patents. I especially liked the "bake at 600 degrees in a
gas grille outside", and the complete absence of any real recipie for
either of the semiconductor layers, or what you'd have to do to get a
consistent 30u layer using screen printing.
They certainly are hawking their screen printing video, aren't they?
Definitely bone up on your MSDS's for any of these materials, and
never use that grille for cooking afterwards!
| |
| Arnold Walker 2005-10-15, 5:21 pm |
|
<William P. N. Smith> wrote in message
news:d8d2l1dsvm4nf09uvn5nkntmo6bi5arkdo@4ax.com...
> ewitte@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> That's an incredible mixmaster document, comprising some stuff on
> screen printing, some stuff on copper solar cells, vague mentions of
> cadmium sulfide solar cells, some stuff on making t-shirts, and a
> couple of patents. I especially liked the "bake at 600 degrees in a
> gas grille outside", and the complete absence of any real recipie for
> either of the semiconductor layers, or what you'd have to do to get a
> consistent 30u layer using screen printing.
>
> They certainly are hawking their screen printing video, aren't they?
>
> Definitely bone up on your MSDS's for any of these materials, and
> never use that grille for cooking afterwards!
The guys seem to be confirming my thoughts, solar steam is easier to build
at home.
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| |
| Blue Cat 2005-10-15, 11:21 pm |
|
"Nog" <nognog@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:yvedndaRpu420M3eRVn-hg@adelphia.com...
>
> "R.H. Allen" <kkarie@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:B5ydnS8hEZba9NPeRVn-ug@giganews.com...
similar.[color=darkred]
>
> Last long? What goes bad?
>
Back in the 1970's I did make a 1 watt PV panel, mainly because manufactured
ones were cost prohibitive. I used surplus cells, and mounted them between
sheets of acrylic plastic. I sealed them with epoxy. From my experience,
several things did go bad. After a few months the epoxy failed causing
delamination and entrance of moisture. Moisture corroded some connections.
To get at them, I had to split apart the assembly (not fun to do). Some of
the cells also failed after a while. Because of that, I limited solar PV
experimentation to dry, sunny days until manufactured panels became
available at a decent price.
| |
| ewitte@hotmail.com 2005-10-16, 8:21 am |
| Thanks. I got it off of P2P so no problem. I refuse to pay $ for
information. Especially when its either false or over my
understanding. So its a good method just not something the home user
can easily do... ie best for someone that can buy the metals in bulk
and have expensive machines to do the process. Yes I've seen the
efficiences of those copper-oxide cells.
Eric
| |
| ewitte@hotmail.com 2005-11-01, 10:21 am |
|
Gresford wrote:
> Can anyone tell me what it would take to make your own solar panels?
> When I say that I mean soldering the cells to create your own solar
> energy matrix. Are there any resources (web, good books)? Is this
> cheaper than buying from a retailer? Or am I out of my mind?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gresford Thomas
If your interested in a small experiment you can get about 2W out of a
$0.39 transistor. Keep in mind though you HAVE to heavily concentrate
light onto it and heatsink. Because without that its closer to .0003
watts. With a cheap mag lens .03 watts. You need a good fresnal lens
to do any good. We have been testing with 2N3055 transistors.
Eric
| |
| Jeff Thies 2005-11-03, 3:21 pm |
| ewitte@hotmail.com wrote:
> Gresford wrote:
>
>
>
> If your interested in a small experiment you can get about 2W out of a
> $0.39 transistor. Keep in mind though you HAVE to heavily concentrate
> light onto it and heatsink. Because without that its closer to .0003
> watts. With a cheap mag lens .03 watts. You need a good fresnal lens
> to do any good. We have been testing with 2N3055 transistors.
How in the world do you do that? 2N3055 are not light sensitive in as
much as they are enclosed in either metal or plastic!
Cheers,
Jeff
>
> Eric
>
| |
| Anthony Matonak 2005-11-03, 10:21 pm |
| Jeff Thies wrote:
> ewitte@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> How in the world do you do that? 2N3055 are not light sensitive in as
> much as they are enclosed in either metal or plastic!
You pry off the top part of the case to expose the transistor.
This works with any transistor or diode though the amount of
power you get is proportional to the size of the semiconductor.
Big power transistors work best though LEDs have the advantage
of having the semiconductor already exposed to light. There is
even a fellow who uses this principle to make inexpensive solar
trackers using green LEDs for the photosensors.
Anthony
| |
| Duane C. Johnson 2005-11-03, 10:21 pm |
| Hi Jeff;
Jeff Thies <jeff@spamalanadingong.com> wrote:
> ewitte@hotmail.com wrote:
> How in the world do you do that?
Cut the top off the TO-3 packaged metal
cased units.
When I worked in a components testing lab we
had this cool tiny tool that was a miniature
can opener.
Or, just use a grind stone or file and the top
comes right off. The aluminum ones are easier.
> 2N3055 are not light sensitive in as much as
> they are enclosed in either metal or plastic!
> Cheers,
> Jeff
Duane
--
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| |
| Steve O'Hara-Smith 2005-11-04, 6:21 am |
| On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 19:40:35 -0600
"Duane C. Johnson" <redrok@redrok.com> wrote:
> Hi Jeff;
>
> Jeff Thies <jeff@spamalanadingong.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Cut the top off the TO-3 packaged metal
> cased units.
Be *very* careful some TO3 can transistors contain beryllium
oxide as a heat transfer agent - it is a fine toxic powder that you *really*
don't want in your lungs.
--
C:>WIN | Directable Mirror Arrays
The computer obeys and wins. | A better way to focus the sun
You lose and Bill collects. | licences available see
| http://www.sohara.org/
| |
| ewitte@hotmail.com 2005-11-04, 1:21 pm |
|
>
> Be *very* careful some TO3 can transistors contain beryllium
> oxide as a heat transfer agent - it is a fine toxic powder that you *really*
> don't want in your lungs.
Mine had a rubbery white substance on it that had to be removed before
doing any testing. With a normal 1" mag lens I'm getting 0.675volts at
up to 50ma. I'm going to be trying it with a 10 inch fresnel lens soon
;)
| |
| ewitte@hotmail.com 2005-11-04, 1:21 pm |
| Mine wouldn't cut with a dremel on high and one of those small 1" saw
blades. I ended up getting it to pry off with a box cutter.
| |
|
| ewi:
I'm getting 0.675volts at up to 50ma.
==============================
Regular cells are .42-.46V at several amps (but they have a lot more
area).
| |
| ewitte@hotmail.com 2005-11-05, 10:21 am |
|
BobG wrote:
> ewi:
> I'm getting 0.675volts at up to 50ma.
> ==============================
> Regular cells are .42-.46V at several amps (but they have a lot more
> area).
It will get a few amps with the right lens. The area is only a few mm
too.
|
|
|
|
|