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Home > Archive > Alternative Power sources > November 2005 > Open frame generator fan blows out is this right?
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Open frame generator fan blows out is this right?
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| Offgridman 2005-10-31, 12:21 am |
| I purchased a generartor from Federal Machinery that I am having
problems with and I am getting zero support from them. I have not
gotten any of the paperwork on the generator head or spare parts that
I was supposed to get yet.
The generator I ordered was supposed to have a remote start panel,
intake air preheater, spare brushes, spare engine parts with it. So far
I have not gotten any of the above.
Here is the web site. I called my credit card company early last week
and denied the charges since they do not seem to be willing to do
anything about this and other problems I am having with it.
http://www.federalmachinery.com/Die...en_Premium.html
The above URL shows the genset.
Right now here is my present problem.
The thing is sounding a oil overheat alarm and I was wondering if the
fan blowing outward through the radiator is the problem. There is no
enclosure around the generator. I am going to drain the oil and change
it with new oil tomorrow to ensure I have the correct amount in
it.Seems correct on the dip stick and no dilution with diesel seems to
be occuring.I only have four hours on it so far. It came with 1.1 hours
showing on the hour meter.
I will install a couple of 110 volt fans on it and see if that helps.
Any ideas??
Offgridman
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| George Ghio 2005-10-31, 8:21 am |
| It is quite common for the fan to work that way.
Is a thermostat fitted?
Do you have a thermometer or probe for multimeter?
Is the water in the radiator actually flowing?
You might try;
http://ctoa.net/ldu/forums.php?m=po...6aa2db534ae28f2
This is the Chinese tractor owners assoc.
I suspect you did the right thing with denying payment.
Offgridman wrote:
> I purchased a generartor from Federal Machinery that I am having
> problems with and I am getting zero support from them. I have not
> gotten any of the paperwork on the generator head or spare parts that
> I was supposed to get yet.
> The generator I ordered was supposed to have a remote start panel,
> intake air preheater, spare brushes, spare engine parts with it. So far
> I have not gotten any of the above.
> Here is the web site. I called my credit card company early last week
> and denied the charges since they do not seem to be willing to do
> anything about this and other problems I am having with it.
>
> http://www.federalmachinery.com/Die...en_Premium.html
>
> The above URL shows the genset.
> Right now here is my present problem.
> The thing is sounding a oil overheat alarm and I was wondering if the
> fan blowing outward through the radiator is the problem. There is no
> enclosure around the generator. I am going to drain the oil and change
> it with new oil tomorrow to ensure I have the correct amount in
> it.Seems correct on the dip stick and no dilution with diesel seems to
> be occuring.I only have four hours on it so far. It came with 1.1 hours
> showing on the hour meter.
> I will install a couple of 110 volt fans on it and see if that helps.
>
> Any ideas??
> Offgridman
>
| |
| wmbjk 2005-10-31, 11:21 am |
| On 30 Oct 2005 19:36:43 -0800, "Offgridman" <offgridman@cs.com> wrote:
>http://www.federalmachinery.com/Die...en_Premium.html
>
>The above URL shows the genset.
>Right now here is my present problem.
>The thing is sounding a oil overheat alarm and I was wondering if the
>fan blowing outward through the radiator is the problem.
In a stationary application the flow direction is nearly irrelevant.
Have you verified that the oil is really too hot? How's the water
temperature?
Wayne
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| Bruce in Alaska 2005-10-31, 5:21 pm |
| In article <1130729803.677530.245970@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Offgridman" <offgridman@cs.com> wrote:
> I purchased a generartor from Federal Machinery that I am having
> problems with and I am getting zero support from them. I have not
> gotten any of the paperwork on the generator head or spare parts that
> I was supposed to get yet.
> The generator I ordered was supposed to have a remote start panel,
> intake air preheater, spare brushes, spare engine parts with it. So far
> I have not gotten any of the above.
> Here is the web site. I called my credit card company early last week
> and denied the charges since they do not seem to be willing to do
> anything about this and other problems I am having with it.
>
> http://www.federalmachinery.com/Die...iesel_Generator
> _Open_Premium.html
>
> The above URL shows the genset.
> Right now here is my present problem.
> The thing is sounding a oil overheat alarm and I was wondering if the
> fan blowing outward through the radiator is the problem. There is no
> enclosure around the generator. I am going to drain the oil and change
> it with new oil tomorrow to ensure I have the correct amount in
> it.Seems correct on the dip stick and no dilution with diesel seems to
> be occuring.I only have four hours on it so far. It came with 1.1 hours
> showing on the hour meter.
> I will install a couple of 110 volt fans on it and see if that helps.
>
> Any ideas??
> Offgridman
>
In my PowerHouse I have twin 20 Kw Northern Lights Gensets, One facing
North, and one facing South. Both blow air from the genset thru the
radiator and then out of the building. When the wind is blowing
out of the south at more than 25 Kts, I can't load up the south genset
with more than 15Kw of load, or it overheats, due to the air thru the
radiator not being able to overcome the wind pressure. Same on the
North Genset when the winds are out of the north. Now if I was as
smart, as I should have been, I would have built the Powerhouse with
the engines facing East/West, and not have to deal with the occasional
prevailing winds. As my Powerhouse was built long before I got here,
that wasn't an option, but I was smart enough to figure out why I would
get High Temp Shutdowns, on some days and not on other days. If I
changed the radiator fans to suck, instead of blow, I would overheat
the interior of the Powerhouse, unless I added a Vent Fan which would
just take more power to run. So as it is, I just don't do laundry
on days when the prevailing winds are more than 25Kts, and blowing the
wrong direction for Genset that is online and running........
Bruce in alaska
--
add a <2> before @
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| Have you thought about an oil temp guage. Buzzers and idiot lights
are famous for being wrong. If you are off grid get water and oil temp
you can bet on. These are common items at auto stores and on line.
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| Offgridman 2005-11-02, 12:21 am |
| Thanks George, I have been reading that web site for days with no luck.
Appreciated none the less
Offgridman
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| Offgridman 2005-11-02, 12:21 am |
| Hello Wayne,
The water temp is eighty deg C right in the middle of the gauge.
The oil filter is very hot to touch. Much to hot to hold onto.
I have not measured the temp yet. I did run the unit with two
additional electric fans on it. I ran it for 1.5 hours today with out
getting the hot oil alarm. Oil pressure gauge stays pegged out when
running on the high side.
Radiator is circulating well, belt is tight to the fan and waterpump. I
smoke checked the airflow today without the additional fans seems most
airflow comes into the sides of the fan bypassing the oil pan and
engine. Without a shroud around the unit to direct the airflow perhaps
it was overheating. I will attempt to buy and instrument to measure the
temp with soon.
I am not sure how hot the oil should be. though.
I am getting nothing from the mfg or seller (Federal Machinery) in the
way of help.
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| Offgridman 2005-11-02, 12:21 am |
| Do you have shrouds on your units or are they open framed like mine?
I used additional fans on it to test today and did not get the high oil
temp alarm.
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| Offgridman 2005-11-02, 12:21 am |
| Actually I am going to look for one to buy right now. I also need a
three wire shutoff solenoid the one on mine won't hold in on shutdown.
Thanks
Offgridman
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| I am using a GM 271 engine and no shroud but it has a large fan. As
for oil temp, it will vary some with outside temp. Mine runs from 165f
to 190f. Over 200 is not too good. Good luck.
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| On 1 Nov 2005 19:32:36 -0800, "Offgridman" <offgridman@cs.com> wrote:
>Hello Wayne,
>The water temp is eighty deg C right in the middle of the gauge.
>The oil filter is very hot to touch. Much to hot to hold onto.
That's normal, you could expect the oil to be in the 70C range.
>I have not measured the temp yet. I did run the unit with two
>additional electric fans on it. I ran it for 1.5 hours today with out
>getting the hot oil alarm. Oil pressure gauge stays pegged out when
>running on the high side.
>Radiator is circulating well, belt is tight to the fan and waterpump. I
>smoke checked the airflow today without the additional fans seems most
>airflow comes into the sides of the fan bypassing the oil pan and
>engine.
> Without a shroud around the unit to direct the airflow perhaps
>it was overheating.
Airflow over the engine itself will only contribute a modest amount to
overall cooling.
>I will attempt to buy and instrument to measure the
>temp with soon.
You might get one of these.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ct...temnumber=91778
You could use it to measure the temperature of the oil filter which
would be near enough to the oil temperature for your purposes. And you
could compare the genny's various temps to those of a known normal
engine. Useful for many other interesting things as well, such as the
temperature difference between floor and ceiling, or between edge and
center of floor for instance.
Wayne
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"wmbjk" <wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net> wrote in message
news:g8qhm1h0rmqp6qkcqkgn9n5sdcimjeqk1i@4ax.com...
> On 1 Nov 2005 19:32:36 -0800, "Offgridman" <offgridman@cs.com> wrote:
>
>
> That's normal, you could expect the oil to be in the 70C range.
>
>
> Airflow over the engine itself will only contribute a modest amount to
> overall cooling.
>
>
> You might get one of these.
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ct...temnumber=91778
> You could use it to measure the temperature of the oil filter which
> would be near enough to the oil temperature for your purposes. And you
> could compare the genny's various temps to those of a known normal
> engine. Useful for many other interesting things as well, such as the
> temperature difference between floor and ceiling, or between edge and
> center of floor for instance.
>
> Wayne
Picking this thread up in mid stream
Every open generator I have ever seen was in an enclosed room. Fresh air
supplied mechanically and the engine radiator fan did the exhausting of the
room. Every unit was attached to a metal funnel to take advantage of the
"acceleration through a venturi" principle.
Does the manual say anything about an enclosure? The enclosure/air path
might be critical to the design of this unit.
I do agree with Wayne that air flowing over the motor would provide marginal
cooling. I do know that static air pressure has issues with HVAC fans. Lack
of static pressure was actually overheating a bunch of return air fans in a
building. They needed the restriction to stay cool, electric motor.
Another WAG you mentioned that you were draining the oil in another post.
Was the oil scorched? I missed that post.
You ran it for 1.5 hours, with a load? How much? Hopefully at least 50% of
the rating.
When we do 100% load tests on generators, for 30 and sometimes 60 minutes
they do get pretty damn hot. Upper reaches of normal.
"Oil pressure gauge stays pegged out when running on the high side." high
side of what?
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| Bruce in Alaska 2005-11-02, 4:21 pm |
| In article <1130902356.192819.292340@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Offgridman" <offgridman@cs.com> wrote:
> Hello Wayne,
> The water temp is eighty deg C right in the middle of the gauge.
> The oil filter is very hot to touch. Much to hot to hold onto.
> I have not measured the temp yet. I did run the unit with two
> additional electric fans on it. I ran it for 1.5 hours today with out
> getting the hot oil alarm. Oil pressure gauge stays pegged out when
> running on the high side.
> Radiator is circulating well, belt is tight to the fan and waterpump. I
> smoke checked the airflow today without the additional fans seems most
> airflow comes into the sides of the fan bypassing the oil pan and
> engine. Without a shroud around the unit to direct the airflow perhaps
> it was overheating. I will attempt to buy and instrument to measure the
> temp with soon.
> I am not sure how hot the oil should be. though.
> I am getting nothing from the mfg or seller (Federal Machinery) in the
> way of help.
>
Maybe you should look at an Extenal BaseOil Heat Exchanger that is
plumbed into the Radiator Cooling Loop. A lot of the bigger diesel
gensets have these built into the design, so as to keep the Oil Temp.
at the same temp as the Radiator Cooling Loop. Typically somewhere
between 180F and 200F for most diesel systems.
Bruce in alaska
--
add a <2> before @
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| Offgridman 2005-11-10, 11:21 pm |
|
Bob wrote:
> I am using a GM 271 engine and no shroud but it has a large fan. As
> for oil temp, it will vary some with outside temp. Mine runs from 165f
> to 190f. Over 200 is not too good. Good luck.
Thanks Bob the temp range is what I needed.
Offgridman
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| Aftermarket automotive oil coolers are common and inexpensive I
think... look like heater cores... little radiators. Should you bolt it
to the lee side or the windward side of the water radiator??
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