Alternative Power sources - Ideal heating/cooling solution for Vacation house?

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Ideal heating/cooling solution for Vacation house?

gaikokujinkyofusho@gmail.com

2005-11-17, 12:21 pm

Hi, I am brainstorming about a vacation house and am (presently) trying
to decide on the best way to cool/heat it (preferably in an
environmentally responsible/green fashion). It needs a huge overhaul
that is being done in stages (this is a old 1920s house, about 3,000sq
ft). We use it as a vacation house, that is, we are not there 24/7
maybe about 7 days out of each month. I was talking to an architect
friend (great guy but not very "green-minded") and he said just use a
heat pump. At first that sounded great, I have heard they are very
efficient but then I heard that it is not a good idea to turn them on
and off (even if it is only a few times a month) and to just keep them
running year round, I am no architect/engineer but that sounds to me
like it would be a waste. The house is under some huge oak trees (which
we are not going to cut) so passive solar heating is not as much of an
option (though we are in the Southeast US so it doesn't get *that*
cold). We have two fireplaces we use in the fall/winter (I know, very
inefficient; we are looking into Franklin type stoves) since we have a
few acres of land and easy access to wood. The house has very little
insulation now but we are planning on putting some in (in the near
future) and being an old house it has nice high ceilings, which keeps
things a bit cooler in the summer.

So I am looking for *any* suggestions on cost effective heating cooling
for a house that is occupied about a week out of every month (i.e. we
don't need to heat/cool it all the time). Any help/suggestions would be
greatly appreciated!

Cheers

-Gaiko

Don

2005-11-17, 1:21 pm

<gaikokujinkyofusho@gmail.com> wrote
> The house is under some huge oak trees (which
> we are not going to cut) so passive solar heating is not as much of an
> option (though we are in the Southeast US so it doesn't get *that*
> cold).

PV's and SP's do not have to be installed directly on the house, they can be
remote, if landscaping is an issue.
In fact, the best way is to have them mounted on a tracker so they can
follow the sun.
Plus, the associated storage batteries and other equipment might be better
suited if located away from where people are living.
Nothing like exploding battery acid to wake you from your midnight slumber.

SQLit

2005-11-17, 2:21 pm

<gaikokujinkyofusho@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132242248.669426.187160@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Hi, I am brainstorming about a vacation house and am (presently) trying
> to decide on the best way to cool/heat it (preferably in an
> environmentally responsible/green fashion). It needs a huge overhaul
> that is being done in stages (this is a old 1920s house, about 3,000sq
> ft). We use it as a vacation house, that is, we are not there 24/7
> maybe about 7 days out of each month. I was talking to an architect
> friend (great guy but not very "green-minded") and he said just use a
> heat pump. At first that sounded great, I have heard they are very
> efficient but then I heard that it is not a good idea to turn them on
> and off (even if it is only a few times a month) and to just keep them
> running year round, I am no architect/engineer but that sounds to me
> like it would be a waste. The house is under some huge oak trees (which
> we are not going to cut) so passive solar heating is not as much of an
> option (though we are in the Southeast US so it doesn't get *that*
> cold). We have two fireplaces we use in the fall/winter (I know, very
> inefficient; we are looking into Franklin type stoves) since we have a
> few acres of land and easy access to wood. The house has very little
> insulation now but we are planning on putting some in (in the near
> future) and being an old house it has nice high ceilings, which keeps
> things a bit cooler in the summer.
>
> So I am looking for *any* suggestions on cost effective heating cooling
> for a house that is occupied about a week out of every month (i.e. we
> don't need to heat/cool it all the time). Any help/suggestions would be
> greatly appreciated!
>
> Cheers
>
> -Gaiko

Before you can really decide on a course of action you need to do the manual
calculation for the building. Once those are done then you can decide which
direction you want to do. Other issues will be apparent, duct work, return
air, filtering, humidity control, and operation cost will factor in.
Personally the heat pump sounds pretty good. Reliable, completive cost and
it does not take a bunch of maintenance. You would not need a 18 SEER,
cause your not there all of the time. You might be able to find a unit that
someone is upgrading and can be had for a song. Used Heat pumps here are
about 100-200 a ton.

Anthony Matonak

2005-11-17, 2:21 pm

gaikokujinkyofusho@gmail.com wrote:
> ... I was talking to an architect
> friend (great guy but not very "green-minded") and he said just use a
> heat pump. At first that sounded great, I have heard they are very
> efficient but then I heard that it is not a good idea to turn them on
> and off (even if it is only a few times a month) and to just keep them
> running year round, I am no architect/engineer but that sounds to me
> like it would be a waste. The house is under some huge oak trees (which
> we are not going to cut) so passive solar heating is not as much of an
> option (though we are in the Southeast US so it doesn't get *that*
> cold).
....

I would get reliable information about turning on/off heat pumps.
Call the manufacturer. Heat pumps are very similar to air conditioners
and people leave air conditioners turned off for half a year or more
without damage. Certainly having them turned off for a few weeks
shouldn't be harmful to a heat pump.

Solar heating panels don't have to be mounted on the roof of your
house. They are often placed there simply because it's a convenient
spot to put them and it out of the way. You may find that, while
solar air heating panels are fairly inexpensive to build, the
ducting required to bring the heated air into the house might be
cumbersome. You might consider inexpensive homemade solar water
heating panels to bring the heat into the house.

Anthony

steve

2005-11-17, 3:21 pm

i saw at the last los angeles county fair several airconditioning
companies who were selling their AC units in conjunction with dedicated
solar panels to their products. this was a smart move in that one can
say they added an AC system which will not be a big hit to their
electric bill.

the concept of a dedicated solar panel to run a heat pump might be
available thru these kind of contractors.

this would circulate the air in your place at least during the day & if
visited one week a month might not have that weird smelly - "something
died here?" type smell of a closed up place.

see ya

steve

Phil Scott

2005-11-17, 3:21 pm

<gaikokujinkyofusho@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132242248.669426.187160@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Hi, I am brainstorming about a vacation house and am
> (presently) trying
> to decide on the best way to cool/heat it (preferably in an
> environmentally responsible/green fashion). It needs a huge
> overhaul
> that is being done in stages (this is a old 1920s house,
> about 3,000sq
> ft). We use it as a vacation house, that is, we are not
> there 24/7
> maybe about 7 days out of each month. I was talking to an
> architect
> friend (great guy but not very "green-minded") and he said
> just use a
> heat pump. At first that sounded great, I have heard they
> are very
> efficient but then I heard that it is not a good idea to
> turn them on
> and off (even if it is only a few times a month) and to just
> keep them
> running year round, I am no architect/engineer but that
> sounds to me
> like it would be a waste. The house is under some huge oak
> trees (which
> we are not going to cut) so passive solar heating is not as
> much of an
> option (though we are in the Southeast US so it doesn't get
> *that*
> cold). We have two fireplaces we use in the fall/winter (I
> know, very
> inefficient; we are looking into Franklin type stoves) since
> we have a
> few acres of land and easy access to wood. The house has
> very little
> insulation now but we are planning on putting some in (in
> the near
> future) and being an old house it has nice high ceilings,
> which keeps
> things a bit cooler in the summer.
>
> So I am looking for *any* suggestions on cost effective
> heating cooling
> for a house that is occupied about a week out of every month
> (i.e. we
> don't need to heat/cool it all the time). Any
> help/suggestions would be
> greatly appreciated!
>
> Cheers
>
> -Gaiko

The heat pump will come with a circuit inside the compressor
to keep it warm .. thats the key issue. Running it every
month or so is bogus information. Systems that need that
sort of attention need to be run every week at least...that
was in the old days. thats no longer the case now with the
new rotary compressors and crankcase heaters.

Power has to be supplied to the unit at all times though..not
run, but it needs to have power to run its heater circuit.

and yes, a heat pump is your best option if want cooling too.

if all you need is heat, a gas furnace is best.

Or a gas furnace with electric split system cooling (most
common) and you can get that in SEER 14 thats green as it
gets.

Greener is to install two systems half the size, one for the
rooms you occupy at night, one for the rooms you occupy at
night..

greener yet is to size those down 30% from the contractor
recommended levels... you will suffer about 1% of the time..
and be vastly more efficient the rest of the time. costs
will be lower all the way around.

Phil Scott
Mech Engr/ hvac contr since 1751.
>

bradsbulkmail@comcast.net

2005-11-17, 10:21 pm

Hi Gaiko,

I recently replaced my 18 year-old heat pump with a new split system
model and it works great. Before you decide to buy one, you should
have several come out and estimate what capacity you should use. The
companies who are really doing their job will measure your sq. footage
and assess your current insulation (or what you plan to install)
before giving you an estimate.

The issue of running heat pumps refers to getting the unit sized
correctly for your home. What hurts a heat pump most is when it cycles
on and off over short periods...the same thing affects furnaces and
air conditioners, too. The constant cycling causes premature wear on
components in the same way that starting/stopping your car causes
premature engine wear. Heat pumps work best when they run for an
extended period of time; setting the temperature low for "vacation
mode" shouldn't be an issue. If you're going to turn the unit off for
an extended period of time then you'll want to put a cover over the
outside unit to keep leaves, limbs, etc. out of the condenser unit.

The unit I had installed is a split system unit (the condenser/pump
and air handler units are separate) but you can also get single
"package" units that are less efficient but don't require installation
of an air handler inside the house. Compared to my old unit, this one
is more than twice as efficient. For heating or cooling it's hard to
beat a heat pump with the exception of when the outside temperature
drops below ~37 degrees F; at that point the heat pump will be
supplemented by electric strip heaters when needed. You can get around
that by installing a hybrid units that uses natural gas (or maybe
propane?) to provide heat instead of an electric heat strip. In your
case, you could install fireplace insert stoves to provide heat to
supplement the heat pump. In addition to the heat pump I also had an
external air intake installed to draw in fresh air: here in Oregon it
gets cool enough at night during hte summer that you can draw in
outside air and cool off your house to 60 degrees F (or less) at
night, thereby saving cooling costs during the day. The system also
has an advanced thermostat that can be programmed weekly or set to
"vacation" mode for extended periods...it's even smart enough to
figure out how to warm/cool your house in the morning so that the
temperature is at the desired level at the desired time in the most
energy-efficient method.

As for cost-effective, heat pumps beat out just about everything
except for free wood (which you have) for heating. Heat pumps aren't
cheap (mine cost nearly $9000) but it will last for at least 20-25
years...the compressor itself is warrantied for 10 years.

On 17 Nov 2005 07:44:08 -0800, gaikokujinkyofusho@gmail.com wrote:

>Hi, I am brainstorming about a vacation house and am (presently) trying
>to decide on the best way to cool/heat it (preferably in an
>environmentally responsible/green fashion). It needs a huge overhaul
>that is being done in stages (this is a old 1920s house, about 3,000sq
>ft). We use it as a vacation house, that is, we are not there 24/7
>maybe about 7 days out of each month. I was talking to an architect
>friend (great guy but not very "green-minded") and he said just use a
>heat pump. At first that sounded great, I have heard they are very
>efficient but then I heard that it is not a good idea to turn them on
>and off (even if it is only a few times a month) and to just keep them
>running year round, I am no architect/engineer but that sounds to me
>like it would be a waste. The house is under some huge oak trees (which
>we are not going to cut) so passive solar heating is not as much of an
>option (though we are in the Southeast US so it doesn't get *that*
>cold). We have two fireplaces we use in the fall/winter (I know, very
>inefficient; we are looking into Franklin type stoves) since we have a
>few acres of land and easy access to wood. The house has very little
>insulation now but we are planning on putting some in (in the near
>future) and being an old house it has nice high ceilings, which keeps
>things a bit cooler in the summer.
>
>So I am looking for *any* suggestions on cost effective heating cooling
>for a house that is occupied about a week out of every month (i.e. we
>don't need to heat/cool it all the time). Any help/suggestions would be
>greatly appreciated!
>
>Cheers
>
>-Gaiko

2005-11-18, 3:21 pm

In article <dlijja$q50$1@news.tdl.com>,
"Phil Scott" <philscott@philscott.net> wrote:

>
> Phil Scott
> Mech Engr/ hvac contr since 1751.

I like that .... 1751....Hmmm, would you like a Methusula
Designation.....

Me

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