| Author |
Storage Temp for Deep-Cycle Batteries
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| Chris F. 2005-11-17, 8:21 pm |
| At what temperature do you guys recommend storing deep-cycle batteries,
for optimal performance? A pamphlet included with one I recently purchased,
suggested a cold area to "prevent the battery from discharging". I'm aware
that cold storage can slow down the reaction, that causes a battery to
discharge itself. But it's also been my observation that (smaller types of)
batteries perform poorly when cold. Anyone who's tried to shoot video in
sub-zero weather knows this all too well; NiCd and Li-Ion batteries must be
kept warm to work properly.
So my guess right now is this; for long-term storage, cooler is better.
But when in use, a warmer temperature is needed. Is this right?
| |
| Anthony Matonak 2005-11-17, 10:21 pm |
| Chris F. wrote:
> At what temperature do you guys recommend storing deep-cycle batteries,
> for optimal performance?
The battery manufacturer should be able to provide this information.
As I recall, most largish lead-acid batteries are designed to work
at room temperature. That's roughly around 70ish F.
Since their efficiency is not 100%, they will often produce heat when
charging and discharging. If you're loading them heavily or charging
them rapidly, cooling might become important.
Anthony
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| The electric drag racer guys like their batteries warm. Links to
articles on evparts.com
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"Chris F." <zappymanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cO8ff.125697$Ph4.3852780@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> So my guess right now is this; for long-term storage, cooler is better.
> But when in use, a warmer temperature is needed. Is this right?
Call the manufacturer of your battery, they have done all the temperature
testing.
You will not be able to observe any temperature degradation unless the temps
go to extreme limits. Also avoid vibration.
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| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2005-11-18, 7:21 am |
| Chris F. <zappymanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote:
>... my guess right now is this; for long-term storage, cooler is better.
>But when in use, a warmer temperature is needed. Is this right?
Yes. A cold lead-acid battery wears out less quickly and discharges less.
It loses capacity when cold, but that comes back when you warm it.
In some cases, the energy used to warm it up (if it comes from
the battery) is less than the capacity it restores.
Nick
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| daestrom 2005-11-18, 9:21 am |
|
"Chris F." <zappymanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cO8ff.125697$Ph4.3852780@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> At what temperature do you guys recommend storing deep-cycle batteries,
> for optimal performance? A pamphlet included with one I recently
> purchased,
> suggested a cold area to "prevent the battery from discharging". I'm aware
> that cold storage can slow down the reaction, that causes a battery to
> discharge itself. But it's also been my observation that (smaller types
> of)
> batteries perform poorly when cold. Anyone who's tried to shoot video in
> sub-zero weather knows this all too well; NiCd and Li-Ion batteries must
> be
> kept warm to work properly.
> So my guess right now is this; for long-term storage, cooler is better.
> But when in use, a warmer temperature is needed. Is this right?
>
>
I'd go along with that. Remember, 'storing' a battery is typically done
'open-circuit'. Different than 'using' a battery. For storage, perform an
equalizer and then open-circuit the battery. Colder will minimize
self-discharge. But when using a battery, colder will reduce capacity.
Manufacturer's usually can supply you with a capacity vs. temperature curve
or data there.
And although a warmer battery can have closer to rated capacity, too warm
can shorten the life and cause it to need watering more frequently.
daestrom
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| Solar Flare 2005-11-18, 10:21 pm |
| I have saved an old water bed mattress heater, with
thermostat just for that purpose if I ever get around
to it some day. I believe it is about 30 watts but I
need the insulated box for my -25C garage in the
winter first.
"daestrom" <daestrom@NO_SPAM_HEREtwcny.rr.com> wrote in
message
news:Rrkff.17207$DL6.11570@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
> "Chris F." <zappymanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in
message
>
news:cO8ff.125697$Ph4.3852780@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
deep-cycle batteries,[color=darkred]
one I recently[color=darkred]
discharging". I'm aware[color=darkred]
causes a battery to[color=darkred]
that (smaller types[color=darkred]
tried to shoot video in[color=darkred]
Li-Ion batteries must[color=darkred]
storage, cooler is better.[color=darkred]
this right?[color=darkred]
>
> I'd go along with that. Remember, 'storing' a
battery is typically done
> 'open-circuit'. Different than 'using' a battery.
For storage, perform an
> equalizer and then open-circuit the battery. Colder
will minimize
> self-discharge. But when using a battery, colder
will reduce capacity.
> Manufacturer's usually can supply you with a capacity
vs. temperature curve
> or data there.
>
> And although a warmer battery can have closer to
rated capacity, too warm
> can shorten the life and cause it to need watering
more frequently.
>
> daestrom
>
>
| |
| Robert Morein 2005-11-19, 8:21 pm |
|
"Chris F." <zappymanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cO8ff.125697$Ph4.3852780@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> At what temperature do you guys recommend storing deep-cycle batteries,
> for optimal performance? A pamphlet included with one I recently
> purchased,
> suggested a cold area to "prevent the battery from discharging". I'm aware
> that cold storage can slow down the reaction, that causes a battery to
> discharge itself. But it's also been my observation that (smaller types
> of)
> batteries perform poorly when cold. Anyone who's tried to shoot video in
> sub-zero weather knows this all too well; NiCd and Li-Ion batteries must
> be
> kept warm to work properly.
> So my guess right now is this; for long-term storage, cooler is better.
> But when in use, a warmer temperature is needed. Is this right?
>
Every ten degree Celsius increase cuts the life of a battery in half.
Batteries are rated for capacity at 77 degrees Fahrenheit, ie., 25 degrees
Celsius.
There is nothing magic about this number, except:
If you do not use a charger with a temperature probe, the float voltage will
be incorrect at every temperature except 77 degrees. This will shorten the
life of the battery.
As the temperature approaches freezing, the battery will have very little
capacity.
| |
| Solar Flare 2005-11-19, 10:21 pm |
| I believe you may mean "cuts the capacity of a battery
in half"
While I agree with your concept, your figures are quite
exagerated.
Here are some stats on different batteries I have found
to learn on this.
http://www.mpoweruk.com/performance.htm
My batteries are stored in my garage dwon to -25C and
they still handle the inverter loads just fine. When
the load is applied the battery warms up and the
capacity increases as the internal resistance decreases
again. See the charts on the website.
Remember: Cars still have to start at -40C using a
lead-acid battery.
"Robert Morein" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:LPSdnbHlDYU9I-LeRVn-hg@giganews.com...
>
> Every ten degree Celsius increase cuts the life of a
battery in half.
> Batteries are rated for capacity at 77 degrees
Fahrenheit, ie., 25 degrees
> Celsius.
> There is nothing magic about this number, except:
> If you do not use a charger with a temperature probe,
the float voltage will
> be incorrect at every temperature except 77 degrees.
This will shorten the
> life of the battery.
> As the temperature approaches freezing, the battery
will have very little
> capacity.
>
>
| |
| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2005-11-20, 2:21 am |
| Solar Flare <s.flare@hotmail.invalid> wrote:
>I believe you may mean "cuts the capacity of a battery in half"
Probably not. Heat is bad for battery lifetime.
Nick
>"Robert Morein" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote:
>battery in half.
| |
| Solar Flare 2005-11-20, 12:21 pm |
| I think he was talking about cold.
<nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu> wrote in message
news:dlp36c$si@acadia.ece.villanova.edu...
> Solar Flare <s.flare@hotmail.invalid> wrote:
>
battery in half"[color=darkred]
>
> Probably not. Heat is bad for battery lifetime.
>
> Nick
>
a[color=darkred]
>
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| olushola 2005-11-20, 3:21 pm |
| > Probably not. Heat is bad for battery lifetime.
>
I'm glad this came up. I've been educating my self on alternative energy using
the charger/inverter. I'm doing some small level construction in west African
where it is very hot and I was wondering if there was a way to minimize damage
to the batteries from heat. Any suggestions?
Olushola
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| Steve Spence 2005-11-20, 10:21 pm |
| olushola wrote:
>
> I'm glad this came up. I've been educating my self on alternative energy using
> the charger/inverter. I'm doing some small level construction in west African
> where it is very hot and I was wondering if there was a way to minimize damage
> to the batteries from heat. Any suggestions?
>
> Olushola
>
>
Bury the battery box below grade where it's cooler. Or go with some type
of active cooling like running well water through coils in battery box
before using.
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| Derek Broughton 2005-11-21, 9:21 am |
| Steve Spence wrote:
> olushola wrote:
>
> Bury the battery box below grade where it's cooler.
Not a bad idea for Canada either - though it would be "Bury the battery box
below grade where it's _warmer_!
--
derek
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| Solar Flare 2005-11-22, 4:21 pm |
| Makes it pretty tough for maintenance. Need a bungee
jumping cord to service them.
"Derek Broughton" <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote in
message news:ogs853-dbv.ln1@news.pointerstop.ca...
> Steve Spence wrote:
>
on alternative energy[color=darkred]
level construction in[color=darkred]
wondering if there was a way[color=darkred]
suggestions?[color=darkred]
>
> Not a bad idea for Canada either - though it would be
"Bury the battery box
> below grade where it's _warmer_!
> --
> derek
| |
| olushola 2005-11-22, 7:21 pm |
| It seems like there is no easy solution to the heat problem.
Olushola
> Makes it pretty tough for maintenance. Need a bungee
> jumping cord to service them.
>
> "Derek Broughton" <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote in
> message news:ogs853-dbv.ln1@news.pointerstop.ca...
> on alternative energy
> level construction in
> wondering if there was a way
> suggestions?
> "Bury the battery box
>
>
| |
| Solar Flare 2005-11-22, 9:21 pm |
| I am building a battery room right next to the fruit
cellar under my porch. The temperature is cool and
mostly controlled and the vents will be a natural.
"olushola" <jlewis1673@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in
message
news:7hNgf.10282$bx3.1096@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
> It seems like there is no easy solution to the heat
problem.
> Olushola
>
bungee[color=darkred]
lifetime.[color=darkred]
self[color=darkred]
small[color=darkred]
Any[color=darkred]
cooler.[color=darkred]
would be[color=darkred]
>
>
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| Solar Flare 2005-11-22, 11:21 pm |
| We were talking about battery boxes. I doubt you will
pull those 1000 lb of batteries up on a cord from 6
feet under.
"Steve Spence" <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote in
message news:4383cb58$1_2@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> Solar Flare wrote:
bungee[color=darkred]
>
> My well head is 6ft down, no bungee cord necessary.
Not all Canada is
> tundra ....
>
>
> --
> Steve Spence
> Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
> Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
> http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| andre_54005@yahoo.com 2005-11-23, 11:21 am |
| Drive the tractor over to the hole, connect chain to battery, raise
loader. If you do not have a loader tractor, set up a tripod and a
pulley.
And it is not like you are changing packs every year.
__________
Andre' B.
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| Steve Spence 2005-11-23, 11:21 am |
| Solar Flare wrote:
> We were talking about battery boxes. I doubt you will
> pull those 1000 lb of batteries up on a cord from 6
> feet under.
>
Why do you think all the batteries have to be lifted at once. even if
they were, there are things called chain hoists. I use one for pulling
engines. My though was like my well, you climb down in for working on
the well head.
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| Derek Broughton 2005-11-23, 11:21 am |
| Solar Flare wrote:
[color=darkred]
> Makes it pretty tough for maintenance. Need a bungee
> jumping cord to service them.
>
> "Derek Broughton" <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote in
> message news:ogs853-dbv.ln1@news.pointerstop.ca...
> "Bury the battery box
Well, I was thinking more that it might have been smart to have them in the
root cellar (that we really should have built, but didn't). Having built
them into an insulated closet in my garage, they're not as accessible as I
would like them, anyway.
--
derek
| |
| Derek Broughton 2005-11-23, 11:21 am |
| Solar Flare wrote:
> I am building a battery room right next to the fruit
> cellar under my porch. The temperature is cool and
> mostly controlled and the vents will be a natural.
So, your battery room _is_ below grade. Exactly what I was suggesting.
--
derek
| |
| olushola 2005-11-23, 12:21 pm |
| > Well, I was thinking more that it might have been smart to have them in the
> root cellar (that we really should have built, but didn't). Having built
> them into an insulated closet in my garage, they're not as accessible as I
> would like them, anyway.
> --
That is a good way, especially since I will be starting construction very soon.
I can do it up front.
Olushola
| |
| Pete C 2005-11-23, 6:21 pm |
| On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 15:58:24 GMT, "olushola"
<jlewis1673@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>That is a good way, especially since I will be starting construction very soon.
>I can do it up front.
>
>Olushola
>
Hi,
If water is reasonably available how about evaporative cooling of the
battery box or even the battery itself using some sort of absorbent
matting. In a dry climate quite a substantial temperature drop can be
had that way.
The airflow could be provided by 12v PC fans, a couple of 4" fans in
series gives a reasonable airflow for not much current consumption.
If water is really scarce how about forced cooling of the battery
overnight when temperatures are lower, and insulation around the
battery box so it stays cool in the day. Bricks could be used to add
thermal mass.
cheers,
Pete.
| |
| Solar Flare 2005-11-23, 9:21 pm |
| Yup, You're right about that one. It just sounded like
you were going to bury them in the ground....LOL
"Derek Broughton" <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote in
message news:ldce53-7ej.ln1@news.pointerstop.ca...
> Solar Flare wrote:
>
fruit[color=darkred]
>
> So, your battery room _is_ below grade. Exactly what
I was suggesting.
> --
> derek
| |
| Solar Flare 2005-11-23, 9:21 pm |
| Do I leave a hole for ground water to refill the cell
levels too?
LOL
<andre_54005@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1132756260.921405.116160@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Drive the tractor over to the hole, connect chain to
battery, raise
> loader. If you do not have a loader tractor, set up
a tripod and a
> pulley.
> And it is not like you are changing packs every year.
> __________
> Andre' B.
>
| |
| Solar Flare 2005-11-23, 9:21 pm |
| At what point did you disconnect the clusters from each
other in this plan?
"Steve Spence" <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote in
message news:43847fab_4@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> Solar Flare wrote:
will[color=darkred]
>
> Why do you think all the batteries have to be lifted
at once. even if
> they were, there are things called chain hoists. I
use one for pulling
> engines. My though was like my well, you climb down
in for working on
> the well head.
>
>
>
> --
> Steve Spence
> Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
> Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
> http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| Solar Flare 2005-11-23, 9:21 pm |
| You should be able to isolate the baterry closet from
the rest of the fruit cellar by virtue of a gastight
wall of some kind and share the space. Thermal
isolation shouldn't be necessary and a small power
ventilation fan even cycled to remove gas could work.
Usually two vents are provided so one intake into the
storage area and one powered output vent from the
battery area could keep the gases moving one direction.
"Derek Broughton" <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote in
message news:fbce53-7ej.ln1@news.pointerstop.ca...
> Solar Flare wrote:
>
bungee[color=darkred]
be[color=darkred]
>
> Well, I was thinking more that it might have been
smart to have them in the
> root cellar (that we really should have built, but
didn't). Having built
> them into an insulated closet in my garage, they're
not as accessible as I
> would like them, anyway.
> --
> derek
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