Alternative Power sources - corn-wood pellet stove differences?

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corn-wood pellet stove differences?

Joe Brophy

2005-11-20, 2:21 pm

Can anyone describe the differences between a corn fed stove and a wood =
pellet stove? I'd
like to try and modify my wood pellet stove to use corn but I am unsure =
of how the two
technologies are different.

The only thing I have seen/read in my research thus far is that the corn =
stove seems to
require a hotter firebox temp, but I can't see any other significant =
differences.

Appreciate any and all insights on operational differences and how to go =
about the
modifications. Thanks, Joe.
Joe Brophy
CountryTech Computer
email: pcfixr@spiretech.com

AJH

2005-11-20, 6:21 pm

On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 17:22:06 GMT, Joe Brophy <pcfixr@spiretech.com>
wrote:

>Can anyone describe the differences between a corn fed stove and a wood pellet stove? I'd
>like to try and modify my wood pellet stove to use corn but I am unsure of how the two
>technologies are different.

I've never seen a corn burning stove but my wood pellet stoves works
ok with 50:50 wood pellets and wheat. Barley is more problemsome. The
thing is these grains (no corn here I am in UK) have higher ash and
higher proportions of potassium and phosphorus (hence they burn with a
bluish tinge) this can cause problems with ash adhering to heat
exchange surfaces.

The grains have the tendency to char together and not burn thoroughly
so gradually fill the burn pot if left alone. Also the ash slags and
forms a delicate foamed clinker that again gradually fouls the burn
pot, requiring more regular attention.

AJH

Robert

2005-11-21, 9:21 pm

What type feed does your pellet stove employ? I've read the top
feeding augers require a much lower ash fuel than the bottom feed types
and this may eliminate corn as a fuel. The bottom feeding augers push
the ash out of the firebox while the fuel is feeding in. I've been
tempted to try corn in my bottom feeding Scott pellet stove but since I
just paid $129.00 for a ton of pellets and my local feed mill quoted
$140.00 for a ton of corn I've lost the urge to experiment.

ronwagn

2005-11-22, 11:21 am

There is a corn and pellet stove web site on Yahoo. It is called
cornfuel. One member says that the air flow is reverse on a corn vs. a
pellet stove. Plenty of people burn either, or a mixture. I heard
pellets were in short supply, Where do you live. I am paying $1.80 a
bushel in Cental Illinois. 56 lbs to a bushel. That equals $64.29 a
ton. I buy from the elevator in town.

All the best,

Ron Wagner

JoeSP

2005-11-22, 11:21 am

"AJH" <sylva@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:dco1o1hebe44ih6h3a880n6mipf5qlv4p9@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 17:22:06 GMT, Joe Brophy <pcfixr@spiretech.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> I've never seen a corn burning stove but my wood pellet stoves works
> ok with 50:50 wood pellets and wheat. Barley is more problemsome. The
> thing is these grains (no corn here I am in UK) have higher ash and
> higher proportions of potassium and phosphorus (hence they burn with a
> bluish tinge) this can cause problems with ash adhering to heat
> exchange surfaces.
>
> The grains have the tendency to char together and not burn thoroughly
> so gradually fill the burn pot if left alone. Also the ash slags and
> forms a delicate foamed clinker that again gradually fouls the burn
> pot, requiring more regular attention.
>
> AJH
>

Has it come to this? Have feedgrains become so cheap under government
subsidies that they are being burned as fuel? Why couldn't some of that
subsidy money be reattributed to the straw or to waste oils, or to other
fuels? Something is clearly out of whack.

Robert

2005-11-22, 1:21 pm

I live in N.W. Washington State. A great deal of corn is grown in my
area but it is all silage for the dairymen. My local feed mill is
owned by a large Canadian outfit that trucks in the corn I was offered.
They probably paid $64.29 for each ton and ajusted the price for my
quote.

ronwagn

2005-11-22, 7:21 pm

I know there is a subsidy, but if the subsidy can contribute to
individuals saving money on something as basic as keeping their home
warm in the winter, maybe it is not so bad. True it might be better to
grow switchgrass or something on marginal land, or use corn stover,
which is the rest of the plant. I agree with your point , but biomass
is still the way to go, as I see it. It can be used for heat,
electrical generation, hydrogen production et all.

There are many sources for biomass. Peat, grasses, trash, sewage,
grains, crop residue like corn stover , algae, etc. All we need to do
is use it . Nature has provided it for us to use . It is solar power in
material form.

Take away the subsidy and corn might still be the most competitive
product because it is already a good pellet size. No expensive pellet
machine or extra handling. They can't even make waste wood pellets as
cheap. I am proud of supporting the farmers, who can barely make it as
it is.

All the best,

Ron Wagner

JoeSP

2005-11-22, 11:21 pm

"ronwagn" <psychrn7n@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1132698116.122295.241650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I know there is a subsidy, but if the subsidy can contribute to
> individuals saving money on something as basic as keeping their home
> warm in the winter, maybe it is not so bad. True it might be better to
> grow switchgrass or something on marginal land, or use corn stover,
> which is the rest of the plant. I agree with your point , but biomass
> is still the way to go, as I see it. It can be used for heat,
> electrical generation, hydrogen production et all.

So it doesn't matter if it comes from the taxpayer's pockets, as long as it
benefits you, it's OK? No wonder society is in decline.

How do you propose that such a subsidy is sustainable?

>
> There are many sources for biomass. Peat, grasses, trash, sewage,
> grains, crop residue like corn stover , algae, etc. All we need to do
> is use it . Nature has provided it for us to use . It is solar power in
> material form.
>
> Take away the subsidy and corn might still be the most competitive
> product because it is already a good pellet size. No expensive pellet
> machine or extra handling. They can't even make waste wood pellets as
> cheap. I am proud of supporting the farmers, who can barely make it as
> it is.
>
> All the best,
>
> Ron Wagner

No argument there, but there's no cheap way to produce, process and market
biofuels in comparison to the cheap fossil fuels we're used to.

Don

2005-11-23, 1:21 am

"JoeSP"> wrote
> So it doesn't matter if it comes from the taxpayer's pockets,

You're talking about 2 different things.

as long as it
> benefits you, it's OK?

The politicians will steal money from you whether he gets a subsidy or not.

> No wonder society is in decline.

Because you think he's responsible for politicians stealing money from you?
Pay attention.
That responsibility lies directly on the people that chose said politicians
to rule over them.
Are you one of those voters?

JoeSP

2005-11-23, 10:21 am

"Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
news:nLSgf.4365$N45.4036@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> "JoeSP"> wrote
>
> You're talking about 2 different things.
>
> as long as it
>
> The politicians will steal money from you whether he gets a subsidy or
> not.

So it doesn't matter? I suspect this "grab it while you can" attitude is the
chief factor responsible for the difference between a third-world and a
developed nation.

Joe Brophy

2005-11-23, 11:21 am

I have a old earthstove brand, fireplace insert, feeds via a bottom =
auger, thru which the
firebox fan also blows air when it is in a "active auger cycle". The =
hopper is on top but
funnels down to the bottom auger in the back of the unit. Maybe I will =
just try some corn
mixed with pellets and see how it works. I had also thought of putting a=
1/2" x 4"X4"
piece of steel over the output of the auger as "heat storage" to balance =
the hi and lo
extremes and hopefully raise the average firebox temp too.

If you have the same weight of both pellets and corn, wouldn't the corn =
fuel provide more
heat since it has more BTU's per unit measure than wood pellets? If that=
is true then the
higher priced per ton of corn may have been the best deal? I also like =
the idea of not
having the creosote flue buildup over time.

Thanks for your comments Robert, I have some things to try perhaps.

regards, Joe.=20

On 21 Nov 2005 17:07:25 -0800, "Robert" <rmfree@cnw.com> wrote:

>What type feed does your pellet stove employ? I've read the top
>feeding augers require a much lower ash fuel than the bottom feed types
>and this may eliminate corn as a fuel. The bottom feeding augers push
>the ash out of the firebox while the fuel is feeding in. I've been
>tempted to try corn in my bottom feeding Scott pellet stove but since I
>just paid $129.00 for a ton of pellets and my local feed mill quoted
>$140.00 for a ton of corn I've lost the urge to experiment.

Joe Brophy

2005-11-23, 11:21 am

I will sign up to that group as soon as I finish here, excellent! I am =
not sure I
understand what you mean by reverse air flow, are you referring to the =
fan that blows
inside the firebox? My stove blows air thru the auger housing along with=
the pellets
being augured. The pellets and air feed up thu the existing coals from =
the bottom. Or
maybe you are referring to the comment Robert made earlier (or later I am=
not sure...)
that top feed pellet stoves weren't too good of a choice for corn =
because of a lower ash
content, I think. I looked at the cornstove patent drawing and itt =
appeared not to even
use an auger, it looked like the corn kernels just slid down a chute or =
slide and into
the firebox. There was some sort of rotating shaft with "fingers" =
mounted on the edge of
the pellet hopper that would feed corn in the chute. It was mounted =
horizontally and did
not appear to be in any sort of housing but was open, more like a =
miniature rototiller for
lack of a better analogy. I could be misreading the drawing too, it =
isn't that cut and
dried, but that is how I interpret it anyway. =20

I have not seen pellet pricing here (in Oregon) yet since I am still =
using the last I had
left over from last spring. As I recall last year the ton I bought back=
then was right
in the same ballpark with your $1.80, closer to 2.00$ if bought in =
smaller quantities.

Thanks for the input Ron, I am off to join the yahoo group now, have a =
great thanksgiving.
Best regards, Joe.=20

On 22 Nov 2005 06:23:14 -0800, "ronwagn" <psychrn7n@yahoo.com> wrote:

>There is a corn and pellet stove web site on Yahoo. It is called
>cornfuel. One member says that the air flow is reverse on a corn vs. a
>pellet stove. Plenty of people burn either, or a mixture. I heard
>pellets were in short supply, Where do you live. I am paying $1.80 a
>bushel in Cental Illinois. 56 lbs to a bushel. That equals $64.29 a
>ton. I buy from the elevator in town.
>
>All the best,
>
>Ron Wagner

Joe Brophy
CountryTech Computer
email: pcfixr@spiretech.com

Don

2005-11-23, 12:21 pm

"JoeSP" <olegp@telus.net> wrote in message
news:Pb_gf.207706$ir4.95931@edtnps90...
>
> "Don" <one-if-by-land@concord.com> wrote in message
> news:nLSgf.4365$N45.4036@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> So it doesn't matter?

So WHAT doesn't matter?
That he is getting some of his money back from the thief that stole it?
You really ought to think these things through.
The poster is not your enemy, the people that steal from you are your enemy.

I suspect this "grab it while you can" attitude is the
> chief factor responsible for the difference between a third-world and a
> developed nation.

Whatever.

AJH

2005-11-23, 5:21 pm

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 14:55:59 GMT, "JoeSP" <olegp@telus.net> wrote:

[color=darkred]
>
>Has it come to this? Have feedgrains become so cheap under government
>subsidies that they are being burned as fuel? Why couldn't some of that
>subsidy money be reattributed to the straw or to waste oils, or to other
>fuels? Something is clearly out of whack.

In my case I get the grains from a chap I know and they are the
sweepings from the barn after the last lorry has removed the harvest
from the farm, 150kg this year.

AJH

ronwagn

2005-11-23, 7:21 pm

You seem to be a very bitter person. I am not in favor of subsidies,
but I do pay for them as well as you do. If you read my e-mail, I said
it might be better to use other sources for pellets.

Happy Thanksgiving

Ron
JoeSP wrote:
> "ronwagn" <psychrn7n@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1132698116.122295.241650@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> So it doesn't matter if it comes from the taxpayer's pockets, as long as it
> benefits you, it's OK? No wonder society is in decline.
>
> How do you propose that such a subsidy is sustainable?
>
>
>
>
> No argument there, but there's no cheap way to produce, process and market
> biofuels in comparison to the cheap fossil fuels we're used to.

ronwagn

2005-11-23, 7:21 pm

That is incorrect. I am paying about 25% ot what heating oil or natural
gas is
Biomass heating will keep Big Oil in line. Pellet prices should be a
lot lower, and my hunch is they will be cheaper than corn, as the
demand grows. There is not enough capacity or competiton yet. Biomass
is ,in my opinion, the way to go.

Happy Thanksgiving,

Ron

ronwagn

2005-11-23, 7:21 pm

Dear Joe:

I am glad to hear you are getting a good price on pellets.

I am pretty sure you can get all the info you need on the cornfuel
Yahoo group site.

Wood and other biomass pellets should be cheaper than corn. I wish
someone was using corn stover to make pellets. I think the scale would
have to be huge to make it competitive with corn. More likely without
the subsidy. In the meantime corn keeps the pellet makers honest.

All the best,
Happy Thanksgiving

Ron

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