|
Home > Archive > Alternative Power sources > December 2005 > Honda eu 2000 Generator
You are viewing an archived Text-only version of the thread.
To view this thread in it's original format and/or if you want to reply to
this thread please [click here]
| Author |
Honda eu 2000 Generator
|
|
|
| Hello
I have a 4000 Watt Generator with 120/240 v. for misc. use, very noisy,
am looking at the Honda eu2000 Generator, seems to have good reports and I
guess they are really quiet , wondering if someone that has had real world
experience with this unit could give some impute on the subject, would unit
support a modern furnace, fridg, and freezer, not necessary at the same time
, looks like a dandy gen. but if they are useless, I will forget about it.
Thanks
Phil L.
| |
| Bughunter 2005-11-30, 6:21 am |
|
"Phil" <pdl@imaginenet.net> wrote in message
news:dmja1i02ank@enews2.newsguy.com...
> Hello
> I have a 4000 Watt Generator with 120/240 v. for misc. use, very noisy,
> am looking at the Honda eu2000 Generator, seems to have good reports and I
> guess they are really quiet , wondering if someone that has had real world
> experience with this unit could give some impute on the subject, would
> unit support a modern furnace, fridg, and freezer, not necessary at the
> same time , looks like a dandy gen. but if they are useless, I will forget
> about it.
> Thanks
> Phil L.
>
The EU2000 is a great LITTLE generator, quiet, well regulated power in a
very small package. But at under 2000watts, you have to be very careful that
the loads you are trying to power from it are not too much for it. Consider
the startup surge needed for electrical motors. Each of the appliances you
mention might be too much for it. It would be best to verify how much they
actually consume by testing them.
You can gang two EU2000 units together to double it's capacity because it
uses an inverter that can be easily synchronized with a second unit.
Another alternative is the Eu3000. Less portable, but 50% more power. The
Eu3000 can also be ganged with a second Eu3000 to double it's power as well.
The Eu3000 is probably a better match for your loads, but it still is
advisable to verify the loads.
I have used the Eu2000 to power skill saws and such ( a rental). It worked
nicely for that size load. I use an Eu3000 as backup (mainly battery
charging) for my solar home. It is a great generator. The only two
appliances that it will not power are a 2hp table saw, and a 4hp compressor.
They each have too large of a startup surge. For those loads, I use a
noisy, somewhat poorly regulated 5kw propane generator. (I use propane
refrigeration, and don't have a heating system yet (other than wood/coal))
| |
| Vaughn 2005-11-30, 7:21 am |
|
"Phil" <pdl@imaginenet.net> wrote in message
news:dmja1i02ank@enews2.newsguy.com...
> Hello
> I have a 4000 Watt Generator with 120/240 v. for misc. use, very noisy, am
> looking at the Honda eu2000 Generator, seems to have good reports and I guess
> they are really quiet , wondering if someone that has had real world
> experience with this unit could give some impute on the subject, would unit
> support a modern furnace, fridg, and freezer, not necessary at the same time
Our EU2000 happily and quietly runs our large 2-door 'fridge, and will do
so for 8 to 10 hours on a tank of gas. I would have no concerns about a
household-sized freezer (perhaps not at the same time), but know nothing about
furnaces. My wife calls our Eu "the little engine that can". Don't overlook
the Yamaha models which also have a good reputation.
Vaughn
| |
| Derek Broughton 2005-11-30, 10:21 am |
| Bughunter wrote:
> "Phil" <pdl@imaginenet.net> wrote in message
> news:dmja1i02ank@enews2.newsguy.com...
>
> The EU2000 is a great LITTLE generator, quiet, well regulated power in a
> very small package. But at under 2000watts, you have to be very careful
> that the loads you are trying to power from it are not too much for it.
> Consider the startup surge needed for electrical motors. Each of the
> appliances you mention might be too much for it. It would be best to
> verify how much they actually consume by testing them.
>
> You can gang two EU2000 units together to double it's capacity because it
> uses an inverter that can be easily synchronized with a second unit.
>
> Another alternative is the Eu3000. Less portable, but 50% more power.
I agree. I use an EU2000 as backup to my solar/wind system, but it will
trip on surge loads that won't trip a household 15A breaker, so I wouldn't
count on it to run a furnace, which ime usually needs a 20A breaker.
EU3000 should be fine.
afaik, ganging the generators to double the capacity only works to provide
220V on two legs - you won't get 4000W through a single circuit.
--
derek
| |
| Robert Morein 2005-11-30, 6:21 pm |
|
"Phil" <pdl@imaginenet.net> wrote in message
news:dmja1i02ank@enews2.newsguy.com...
> Hello
> I have a 4000 Watt Generator with 120/240 v. for misc. use, very noisy,
> am looking at the Honda eu2000 Generator, seems to have good reports and I
> guess they are really quiet , wondering if someone that has had real world
> experience with this unit could give some impute on the subject, would
> unit support a modern furnace, fridg, and freezer, not necessary at the
> same time , looks like a dandy gen. but if they are useless, I will forget
> about it.
> Thanks
> Phil L.
The Honda electronics have a bad rep. If the inverter blows out of warranty,
the replacement parts are prohibitively expensive.
The Yamaha units have a better reputation for durability, and pricing of
replacement parts.
The engines in both models are beyond reproach. It's just the electronics
that are cause for concern.
| |
| Dale Farmer 2005-12-01, 2:21 am |
|
Robert Morein wrote:
> "Phil" <pdl@imaginenet.net> wrote in message
> news:dmja1i02ank@enews2.newsguy.com...
> The Honda electronics have a bad rep. If the inverter blows out of warranty,
> the replacement parts are prohibitively expensive.
> The Yamaha units have a better reputation for durability, and pricing of
> replacement parts.
>
> The engines in both models are beyond reproach. It's just the electronics
> that are cause for concern.
The Honda web site offers cables that combine two of their generators
together. The not very good diagrams seem to me to be just AC plugs
that are likely paralleled to the output plug. Does someone who has one
of these please let me know if this is true? Does the control electronics
figure out that it has been hooked up to an already energized AC circuit
and automagically synchronizes itself to it?
I have a situation where I have a smallish 24 hour load, and a larger
load during work hours. Off hours security is a issue, so I can leave
one small genny well secured overnight, and bring in the rest each day,
and take them away at the end of the day.
--Dale
| |
| Vaughn 2005-12-01, 7:21 am |
|
"Dale Farmer" <dale@cybercom.net> wrote in message
news:438E8AB8.A3EDA9C2@cybercom.net...
>
> The Honda web site offers cables that combine two of their generators
> together. The not very good diagrams seem to me to be just AC plugs
> that are likely paralleled to the output plug. Does someone who has one
> of these please let me know if this is true? Does the control electronics
> figure out that it has been hooked up to an already energized AC circuit
> and automagically synchronizes itself to it?
I only have one EU, so have no direct experience with the paralleling
feature, but the cable connects the two inverter's control circuits so that they
operate in sync. Any attempt to simply parallel two AC sources without somehow
syncing them together will yield smoke.
> I have a situation where I have a smallish 24 hour load, and a larger
> load during work hours. Off hours security is a issue, so I can leave
> one small genny well secured overnight, and bring in the rest each day,
> and take them away at the end of the day.
Sound like a good plan, except that the EU2000 is only good for about 10
hours on a tank of gas with a light load.
Vaughn
>
> --Dale
>
>
| |
| m Ransley 2005-12-01, 8:21 am |
| EU great unit, but really needed only on sensitive electronics, unless
your furnace has a circuit board, If noise is your issue with your 4000,
get a new muffler. 2000w leaves little room for surge load.
| |
| Derek Broughton 2005-12-01, 10:21 am |
| Robert Morein wrote:
>
> "Phil" <pdl@imaginenet.net> wrote in message
> news:dmja1i02ank@enews2.newsguy.com...
[color=darkred]
> The Honda electronics have a bad rep. If the inverter blows out of
> warranty, the replacement parts are prohibitively expensive.
> The Yamaha units have a better reputation for durability, and pricing of
> replacement parts.
>
> The engines in both models are beyond reproach. It's just the electronics
> that are cause for concern.
I wouldn't say the Honda electronics have a _bad_ rep. The Yamaha's do seem
to have a better one. iirc, the Yamaha is _marginally_ noisier - but
something like 1 or 2 dB.
--
derek
| |
| Wes Stewart 2005-12-01, 11:21 am |
| On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 11:09:43 GMT, "Vaughn"
<vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.fake.net> wrote:
>
>"Dale Farmer" <dale@cybercom.net> wrote in message
>news:438E8AB8.A3EDA9C2@cybercom.net...
>
> I only have one EU, so have no direct experience with the paralleling
>feature, but the cable connects the two inverter's control circuits so that they
>operate in sync. Any attempt to simply parallel two AC sources without somehow
>syncing them together will yield smoke.
Not so. No "control circuits" are involved. The Honda-supplied
paralleling cable uses shrouded banana plugs for safety reasons only.
You can make your own. See:
http://www.engr.udayton.edu/staff/lriggins/Honda/
If you want to spend an outrageous amount of money, you can buy this:
http://www.mayberrys.com/gentran/parallel.htm
| |
| Ulysses 2005-12-01, 1:21 pm |
|
"Wes Stewart" <n7ws*@*yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cv1uo190hu59coecb1fgl5s0mpe6l70hta@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 11:09:43 GMT, "Vaughn"
> <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.fake.net> wrote:
>
one[color=darkred]
electronics[color=darkred]
circuit[color=darkred]
paralleling[color=darkred]
that they[color=darkred]
somehow[color=darkred]
>
> Not so. No "control circuits" are involved. The Honda-supplied
> paralleling cable uses shrouded banana plugs for safety reasons only.
>
> You can make your own. See:
>
> http://www.engr.udayton.edu/staff/lriggins/Honda/
>
> If you want to spend an outrageous amount of money, you can buy this:
>
> http://www.mayberrys.com/gentran/parallel.htm
>
>
>
The "special" jacks for paralleling are indeed simply connected to the AC
receptacles, hot and neutral. I have not paralleled these units but
supposedly they synchronize themselves. I imagine it would be better to
have the second unit already plugged in at startup. Any comments on that
statement?
Recently someone made the statement that the eu2000 would be less effecient
for the final stages of charging batteries. Since the little Honda varies
it's engine speed and fuel consumption depending upon the load I think the
effeciency probably remains fairly constant throughout the entire load range
but actually may be MORE effecient at lower engine speeds. I have run one
for over 13 hours on a tank of gas when using it to charge batteries only
(initially 40 amps chargine 220 Ah of batteries).
As for OP's question I have run a 24 cu/ft refrigerator/freezer with an
eu2000 while it was also charging batteries. Unless a freezer has an
unusually large startup draw I think it would work just fine but probably
not at the same time as the fridge. I would guess it could run a small
furnace fan such as on a mobile/manufactured home but any large furnace fan
might be questionable especially if it has a resistive type starter. I
think those generally run from 240 VAC anyway.
| |
| Ulysses 2005-12-01, 1:21 pm |
|
"Derek Broughton" <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote in message
news:l7b363-mjk.ln1@news.pointerstop.ca...
> Robert Morein wrote:
>
noisy,[color=darkred]
and[color=darkred]
>
electronics[color=darkred]
>
> I wouldn't say the Honda electronics have a _bad_ rep. The Yamaha's do
seem
> to have a better one. iirc, the Yamaha is _marginally_ noisier - but
> something like 1 or 2 dB.
> --
> derek
The only electronics type problems that I had with my old (first) eu2000 was
the Eco-Throttle switch broke twice and a connector going to the inverter
apparently became loose and got hot and fried the wire. Replacing the
connector and wire fixed it. The engine finally wore out at about
11,500-12,000 hours. Someday I'm going to fix it. I suspect the timing
belt slipped and probably a piston ring broke. In any case I got my money's
worth out of it. I also looked at the Yamaha inverter generators before
buying a second Honda but there are no warranty repair places near me for
Yamaha and at lest two for Honda.
| |
| Vaughn Simon 2005-12-01, 3:21 pm |
|
"Wes Stewart" <n7ws*@*yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cv1uo190hu59coecb1fgl5s0mpe6l70hta@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 11:09:43 GMT, "Vaughn"
> <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.fake.net> wrote:
>
>
> Not so. No "control circuits" are involved. The Honda-supplied
> paralleling cable uses shrouded banana plugs for safety reasons only.
>
> You can make your own. See:
>
> http://www.engr.udayton.edu/staff/lriggins/Honda/at
Thanks for that link Wes. I printed it out and put it in my EU book in
case I ever buy a second unit. My assumption was that the banana plugs only
carried a control pulse that slaved one unit to the other. The principle
that they use must be more like a grid tie inverter.
That said, my statement stands that you can't parallel ac sources
unless they are synced together; matched both in phase angle and voltage.
That feature is built into the EUs, but it is rare indeed for it to be
included in an inverter.
Vaughn
| |
| William P.N. Smith 2005-12-01, 4:21 pm |
| "Vaughn Simon" <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.net> wrote:
>"Wes Stewart" <n7ws*@*yahoo.com> wrote in message
[color=darkred]
> Thanks for that link Wes.
Yeah, thanks, Wes! Nice to know that all we really need is equal
lengths of wire to sync two EU generators together. Wonder how they
do that? Now we get to ask if the EU series will do grid-tie, but I
suspect it's a function of two identical units sharing load rather
than a true grid-tie inverter.
| |
| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2005-12-01, 5:21 pm |
| Ulysses <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote:
>The "special" jacks for paralleling are indeed simply connected to the AC
>receptacles, hot and neutral. I have not paralleled these units but
>supposedly they synchronize themselves.
After reading lhiggin's description of how to parallel these Hondas,
I wonder if we could easily plug one into a wall socket with a
variac to control the backwards grid meter speed :-)
How do they synchronize to each other and share the load? If they can
cogenerate without a grid-tie inverter, we might run the exhaust into
the top of a $200 gas water heater to preheat water for the usual
water heater...
Nick
| |
| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2005-12-01, 5:21 pm |
| William P.N. Smith <news05@compusmiths.com> wrote:
>Now we get to ask if the EU series will do grid-tie, but I suspect
>it's a function of two identical units sharing load rather
>than a true grid-tie inverter.
Let's ask, or try it. The grid-tie function is similar.
Nick
| |
| Vaughn 2005-12-01, 9:21 pm |
|
<nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu> wrote in message
news:dmndbe$acl@acadia.ece.villanova.edu...
>
> After reading lhiggin's description of how to parallel these Hondas,
> I wonder if we could easily plug one into a wall socket with a
> variac to control the backwards grid meter speed :-)
You first!
Vaughn
| |
| Solar Flare 2005-12-01, 10:21 pm |
| Staying in phase is one thing but adjusting for correct
phasing and magnitude is another. I doubt the unit has
power and current metering capable of determining how
to grid-tie. As Willy said it is only for load sharing.
<nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu> wrote in message
news:dmnlkg$ah9@acadia.ece.villanova.edu...
> William P.N. Smith <news05@compusmiths.com> wrote:
>
but I suspect[color=darkred]
rather[color=darkred]
>
> Let's ask, or try it. The grid-tie function is
similar.
>
> Nick
>
| |
| sparky 2005-12-01, 11:21 pm |
| On the subject of the EU- 2000 . Is anyone running one on Propane and
happy with it? Hopefully it is not by US carbeuration my sworn enemy!
| |
| Solar Flare 2005-12-02, 12:21 am |
| Is propane an option on that unit?
"sparky" <astraea41@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1133493089.116991.120510@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> On the subject of the EU- 2000 . Is anyone running
one on Propane and
> happy with it? Hopefully it is not by US
carbeuration my sworn enemy!
>
| |
| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2005-12-02, 7:21 am |
| Vaughn <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.fake.net> wrote:
>
> You first!
I don't own one, but it seems safe enough, with a variac hooked up as
an autotransformer and 2 light bulbs in series. If it syncs, the bulbs
should be dark. Viewed in a fixed font:
--------------sC----B---B-------
| | C wall
| Honda | C socket
| | C
--------------------------------
Moving the variac slider s downwards should make the bulbs light again.
Then short out one bulb, then the other, put a Kill-a-Watt meter into
the Honda socket, and run the exhaust into the 1/2" gas pipe of a $200
upside-down water heater, after removing the thermostat innards.
Nick
| |
| Vaughn 2005-12-02, 8:21 am |
|
"sparky" <astraea41@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1133493089.116991.120510@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> On the subject of the EU- 2000 . Is anyone running one on Propane and
> happy with it? Hopefully it is not by US carbeuration my sworn enemy!
Nope. I saw a picture of one once, but they had to butcher the case
because there was not enough room in there for the regulator. It would be nice
if someone would come up with a kit that would fit inside the case.
I can tell you from repeated experience that you can expect gas to be
unobtainable following a disaster. Propane stores far better than gasoline, and
(so far) the NG system has never failed. We did manage to live quite nicely
with our EU2000 on one tank per day. (One five gallon can = 4 days)
Vaughn
>
| |
| Derek Broughton 2005-12-02, 9:21 am |
| Solar Flare wrote:
[color=darkred]
> Is propane an option on that unit?
>
> "sparky" <astraea41@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1133493089.116991.120510@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
It's an after-market option. I wanted to do it, because we have propane
trucked in 3 times a year, anyway, but the wife was not thrilled. If it
had been an option when we bought it, she'd have gone along with it.
--
derek
| |
| Robert Morein 2005-12-02, 6:21 pm |
|
"Derek Broughton" <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote in message
news:l7b363-mjk.ln1@news.pointerstop.ca...
> Robert Morein wrote:
>
>
>
> I wouldn't say the Honda electronics have a _bad_ rep. The Yamaha's do
> seem
> to have a better one. iirc, the Yamaha is _marginally_ noisier - but
> something like 1 or 2 dB.
> --
> derek
According to what I've read (2nd hand, here), is that Yamaha will actually
sell a replacement inverter at an affordable price. Honda will not.
I own a Yamaha, but as I purchased it for backup use, I can't attest to the
durabillity. It does seem to be made like a little gem. It's even pretty to
look at.
Also, the eco-throttle specs for the Yamaha seems to indicate considerably
longer runtime than the Honda. I don't know whether this is specsmanship,
but it's worth looking into.
| |
| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2005-12-03, 12:21 am |
| I looked at an EU200i today. The exhaust port ID is about 0.7" into the
muffler, which attaches with a standard looking flange with two metric
bolts. The pipe out of the muffler is about half that diameter.
It burns 1.08 gallons of gasoline with a fuel value of 123.1K Btu in 4 hours
at the 1600 W rated load, so it makes 6.4 kWh (21.8K Btu) of electricity and
101.3K Btu of heat (another 29.7 kWh), ie 36.1 kWh total, if it replaces
electric resistance heating. So cogen makes economic sense at a gasoline
price of $2/gallon if electricity costs more than 100x$2/36.1 = 5.5 cents/kWh,
in simple terms.
The ground isn't bonded to the neutral, with 60 volts from each pin to
neutral, so a grounded plug into a wall socket would damage the inverter,
so it needs to float or use an external isolation transformer.
Nick
| |
| danny burstein 2005-12-03, 1:21 am |
| In <dmqfcc$ch5@acadia.ece.villanova.edu> nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu writes:
>The ground isn't bonded to the neutral, with 60 volts from each pin to
>neutral, so a grounded plug into a wall socket would damage the inverter,
>so it needs to float or use an external isolation transformer.
whoa.... are you saying it's a "double hot" outlet?
That would _usually_ be ok, but cancertainly cause problems...
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
| |
| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2005-12-03, 6:21 am |
| danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
>
>whoa.... are you saying it's a "double hot" outlet?
We might call it that.
Nick
| |
| Vaughn 2005-12-03, 9:21 am |
|
<nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu> wrote in message
news:dmqfcc$ch5@acadia.ece.villanova.edu...
> The ground isn't bonded to the neutral, with 60 volts from each pin to
> neutral, so a grounded plug into a wall socket would damage the inverter,
> so it needs to float or use an external isolation transformer.
Nonsense. I plug mine into my transfer panal all the time.
Vaughn
| |
| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2005-12-03, 2:21 pm |
| Vaughn <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.fake.net> wrote:
>
> Nonsense. I plug mine into my transfer panal all the time.
Hmmm. I'll check further. I got this from Maurice Higgins, who put those
homemade parallel cable pictures on the web site. And IIRC, the EU2000
user's manual mentions this...
Then again, PECO's off-peak rate is about 6 cents./kWh, so 5.5 isn't a big
savings. Maybe the gas water heater should be part of a woodstove chimney,
with a draft suction fan at the bottom and 3" galvanized pipe popped into
the flue with the edges unsnapped to lessen liquid creosote corrosion.
Nick
| |
| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2005-12-03, 2:21 pm |
| >Vaughn <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.fake.net> wrote:
>
>Hmmm... IIRC, the EU2000 user's manual mentions this...
I stand corrected. The note on page 14 of the on-line user's manual says
the receptacle grounds are connected to the frame, and the wiring diagram
on page 54 shows that, but I couldn't find any warning not to connect the
rectangular pins to the ground, and Vaughn does this, so it seems OK :-)
Nick
| |
| Rich256 2005-12-03, 6:21 pm |
|
<nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu> wrote in message
news:dmsb0j$cv8@acadia.ece.villanova.edu...
>
inverter,[color=darkred]
>
> I stand corrected. The note on page 14 of the on-line user's manual says
> the receptacle grounds are connected to the frame, and the wiring diagram
> on page 54 shows that, but I couldn't find any warning not to connect the
> rectangular pins to the ground, and Vaughn does this, so it seems OK :-)
>
> Nick
>
Best if the neutral and ground are tied together at one location. The
ground is a saftey item. Neutral is designed to carry the current.
House wiring, the ground and neutral are tied together at the entrance
panel. No where else.
| |
| Vaughn 2005-12-03, 6:21 pm |
|
<nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu> wrote in message
news:dmsb0j$cv8@acadia.ece.villanova.edu...
>
> I stand corrected. The note on page 14 of the on-line user's manual says
> the receptacle grounds are connected to the frame, and the wiring diagram
> on page 54 shows that, but I couldn't find any warning not to connect the
> rectangular pins to the ground, and Vaughn does this, so it seems OK :-)
I think there may have been such an issue with the early versions of the
inverter generators. Anyhow, page 18 specifically addresses connecting the
generator to a building electrical system. Basically, it just tells you to use
a transfer panel.
Since the neutral is not connected to the ground internally in the
generator (also P. 18) you may measure virtually anything (or nothing) from
either power terminal to ground if you are using a sensitive meter. To see if
that voltage is "real" (and not just a bit of leakage) use an incandescent test
lamp instead of a meter.
Vaughn
>
> Nick
>
| |
|
| "Vaughn" <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.fake.net> wrote in
news:qQgkf.215357$zb5.126426@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
>
> <nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu> wrote in message
> news:dmqfcc$ch5@acadia.ece.villanova.edu...
>
> Nonsense. I plug mine into my transfer panal all the time.
>
> Vaughn
>
>
>
>
My little Yamaha plugs into my transfer panel also, and lives
to generate another day, those cheap inverters on the other
hand........... Rob
| |
| Vaughn 2005-12-03, 9:21 pm |
|
"Rob" <beprivat@here.org> wrote in message
news:YZidnTeH4Yk_sQ_enZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@rogers.com...
> My little Yamaha plugs into my transfer panel also, and lives
> to generate another day, those cheap inverters on the other
> hand...........
Yes, as far as I know Yamaha makes a great inverter generator. You, on the
other hand.......
| |
| Solar Flare 2005-12-04, 12:21 am |
| I doubt it. Did you use a 10 megohm input impedance
voltmeter to measure it?
<nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu> wrote in message
news:dmrnii$co6@acadia.ece.villanova.edu...
> danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
>
volts from each pin to[color=darkred]
would damage the inverter,[color=darkred]
transformer.[color=darkred]
>
> We might call it that.
>
> Nick
>
| |
| daestrom 2005-12-04, 11:21 am |
|
<nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu> wrote in message
news:dmsb0j$cv8@acadia.ece.villanova.edu...
>
>
> I stand corrected. The note on page 14 of the on-line user's manual says
> the receptacle grounds are connected to the frame, and the wiring diagram
> on page 54 shows that, but I couldn't find any warning not to connect the
> rectangular pins to the ground, and Vaughn does this, so it seems OK :-)
>
For a lot of 'temporary' power sources that are meant to be connected into a
regular utility fed service panel, it is common to leave the 'ground' and
'neutral' separated by the manufacturer. This gives you the most flexible
configuration.
In some code installations, the ground is tied to the service panel ground,
and the neutral tied just to the panel neutral. And then the two are tied
together in the service panel only. This type of connection allows for
three-conductor transfer switch that switches two 'hots' and the neutral
between grid and emergency power source.
If the local power source has the neutral tied to ground at the
generator/inverter, then when connected to the main service panel you have
two ground-neutral ties (one at source, one at panel) and that's generally a
bad thing.
If the local generator/inverter is meant to be the sole source of power,
then it can have neutral and ground tied at the source.
It all varies with whether the inverter feeds the main panel or a sub-panel,
whether it's the sole power source or there's a transfer switch from grid
power, etc...
With an output that is isolated from the ground, it isn't unusual to read
about 1/2 the voltage output between 'hot' and a ground, but the exact
reading depends on the meter and amount of circuitry. It's really just a
form of 'leakage' and not a 'hard' reading.
daestrom
| |
| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2005-12-05, 1:21 am |
| Rich256 <nospam@nospam.net> wrote:
><nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu> wrote in message
[color=darkred]
>
>Best if the neutral and ground are tied together at one location. The
>ground is a saftey item. Neutral is designed to carry the current.
Maurice Riggins adds:
>Well... it's like I said... if you're reading 60V on the neutral line
>with respect to ground, would YOU connect neutral to ground? Remember
>that the neutral side of the EU output is unfused. Although the EU
>manual shows the wiring diagram, it doesn't show you what's in the
>inverter. That Vaughn is able to get away with shorting the 60V neutral
>to ground, and apparently then getting 120V instead of 60V on the hot
>side WRT ground, indicates the output is probably already transformer
>coupled in the inverter. I wouldn't have considered that a safe
>assumption to make.
Nick
| |
| Vaughn 2005-12-05, 8:21 am |
|
<nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu> wrote in message
news:dmvop6$dbu@acadia.ece.villanova.edu...[color=darkred]
> Rich256 <nospam@nospam.net> wrote:
>
> Maurice Riggins adds:
>
I made no assumptions. I simply took the time to read the manual. As both
I and another poster pointed out, you are reading a leakage voltage because the
ground is not referenced to the hot or neutral. You need to add a load to get a
correct reading.
Vaughn
| |
| Derek Broughton 2005-12-05, 9:21 am |
| Robert Morein wrote:
> "Derek Broughton" <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote in message
> news:l7b363-mjk.ln1@news.pointerstop.ca...
>
> According to what I've read (2nd hand, here), is that Yamaha will actually
> sell a replacement inverter at an affordable price. Honda will not.
Agreed - but there isn't a lot of evidence that the inverters blow up if you
use them reasonably, either. So yes, they'd be expensive to replace, but I
don't think you'd have a lot of need to replace them.
> Also, the eco-throttle specs for the Yamaha seems to indicate considerably
> longer runtime than the Honda. I don't know whether this is specsmanship,
> but it's worth looking into.
I can't say I checked that - since mine's a backup for when the wind/solar
isn't putting out enough power to keep me going, it will run pretty well
full out when it's charging up the batteries.
--
derek
| |
| Rich256 2005-12-05, 11:21 am |
|
"Vaughn" <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.fake.net> wrote in message
news:bqVkf.124254$qk4.41663@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> <nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu> wrote in message
> news:dmvop6$dbu@acadia.ece.villanova.edu...
>
> I made no assumptions. I simply took the time to read the manual.
As both
> I and another poster pointed out, you are reading a leakage voltage
because the
> ground is not referenced to the hot or neutral. You need to add a load to
get a
> correct reading.
>
> Vaughn
>
Correct. Since the ground is attached to the frame that means all the metal
structure around the inverter is tied to that wire.
If a high value resistor were tied between the ground and neutral the
reading to the ground would most likely disappear. Just something to bleed
off the induced voltage. As someone else said they are not tied together in
the generator to avoid a double ground when tied into another system.
It's too cold or I would fire up my generator and see what it reads. This
does bring up an interesting subject in that when an RV is plugged into the
generator the ground is still floating. RVs do not tie their grounds and
return either. Well, not usually. If they do they often can't plug into
many campground systems because the CGs use ground fault detectors. If the
ground and return are tied together some current will flow in both wires
tripping the detector.
| |
| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2005-12-07, 9:21 am |
| With a 125K Btu/gallon high heating value and a 10,000 hour engine lifetime,
Honda EU2000 cogen looks less economical: if we burn 1.08 gallons of gasoline
with a fuel value of 135K Btu in 4 hours at the 1600 W rated load and make
6.4 kWh (21.8K Btu) of electricity and 113.2K Btu of heat (another 33.2 kWh,
ie 39.6 kWh total) and the heat replaces electric resistance and the Honda
costs $899 (mayberrys.com) and wear adds $0.09/h, ie 5.6 cents/kWh, this kind
of cogen only seems to make sense at an off-road gas price of $1.75/gallon if
electricity costs more than 100x$1.75/39.6+5.6 = 10.7 cents/kWh.
Nick
| |
| Bughunter 2005-12-07, 10:21 am |
|
<nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu> wrote in message
news:dn6lf4$fhg@acadia.ece.villanova.edu...
> With a 125K Btu/gallon high heating value and a 10,000 hour engine
> lifetime,
> Honda EU2000 cogen looks less economical: if we burn 1.08 gallons of
> gasoline
> with a fuel value of 135K Btu in 4 hours at the 1600 W rated load and make
> 6.4 kWh (21.8K Btu) of electricity and 113.2K Btu of heat (another 33.2
> kWh,
> ie 39.6 kWh total) and the heat replaces electric resistance and the Honda
> costs $899 (mayberrys.com) and wear adds $0.09/h, ie 5.6 cents/kWh, this
> kind
> of cogen only seems to make sense at an off-road gas price of $1.75/gallon
> if
> electricity costs more than 100x$1.75/39.6+5.6 = 10.7 cents/kWh.
>
> Nick
>
Where can one buy "off-road" gasoline? I have seen off-road diesel for sale,
but never off road gasoline. I'd love to avoid road tax for gas that I buy
for my generator and boats.
| |
| Vaughn Simon 2005-12-07, 1:21 pm |
|
"Bughunter" <nobody@home.net> wrote in message
news:k%Blf.10264$nt5.4003@trndny05...
>
>
> Where can one buy "off-road" gasoline? I have seen off-road diesel for
> sale, but never off road gasoline. I'd love to avoid road tax for gas that
> I buy for my generator and boats.
That answer varies depending on your state/county. Talk to a fuel
wholesaler. Last I heard, in my state you have to request a refund from the
state periodically.
Vaughn
>
>
| |
|
|
"Bughunter" <nobody@home.net> wrote in message
news:k%Blf.10264$nt5.4003@trndny05...
>
> <nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu> wrote in message
> news:dn6lf4$fhg@acadia.ece.villanova.edu...
make[color=darkred]
Honda[color=darkred]
$1.75/gallon[color=darkred]
>
> Where can one buy "off-road" gasoline? I have seen off-road diesel for
sale,
> but never off road gasoline. I'd love to avoid road tax for gas that I buy
> for my generator and boats.
>
Farm supply would be a start. I used to get ~300 gallons of regular
delivered to the "barrel" on our farm. Gas then was ~$0.30 a gallon. I was
paying $0.19 for this gas. Only problem was the gas was colored, and they
would not deliver less than 200 gallons. Storage of gas in quantities is
against the law in most incorporated cities and towns.
I nerfed out finally and set another 300 gallon barrel for road use and got
it delivered for less than the pump. Then I had to add a lock to keep my
parents out of it. Mom was terrible, she knew exactly how far she could
drive and not have to buy gas at the station. Oh well price I paid for
being born.
| |
| Bughunter 2005-12-07, 8:21 pm |
|
"Vaughn Simon" <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.net> wrote in message
news:VIElf.240691$zb5.143347@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "Bughunter" <nobody@home.net> wrote in message
> news:k%Blf.10264$nt5.4003@trndny05...
>
> That answer varies depending on your state/county. Talk to a fuel
> wholesaler. Last I heard, in my state you have to request a refund from
> the state periodically.
>
> Vaughn
>
I'm in New Hampshire, USA.
I don't know if it would be worth trying to deal with the state bureaucracy
for what little I use. With the PV panels working, I burned something like 9
gallons of gas in the generator over last summer. The boat ran through about
one 27 gallon tank. The ATV's a couple tanks, and the snowmobiles a few
tanks. I don't want to store a lot, and I'd guess a wholesaler would not
even want to talk about the small quantities I use off road.
I'll have to ask around and what the rules are for NH.
| |
| Rich Greenberg 2005-12-08, 9:21 pm |
| In article <xWKlf.4473$7G5.1275@trndny03>, Bughunter <nobody@home.net> wrote:
>
>"Vaughn Simon" <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.net> wrote in message
>news:VIElf.240691$zb5.143347@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
>I'm in New Hampshire, USA.
>
>I don't know if it would be worth trying to deal with the state bureaucracy
>for what little I use. With the PV panels working, I burned something like 9
>gallons of gas in the generator over last summer. The boat ran through about
>one 27 gallon tank. The ATV's a couple tanks, and the snowmobiles a few
>tanks. I don't want to store a lot, and I'd guess a wholesaler would not
>even want to talk about the small quantities I use off road.
>
>I'll have to ask around and what the rules are for NH.
Many moons ago when I had a motorboat, I saved all my recipts for when I
put gas in it, and when I did my federal taxes, I filled out a form
which gave me a tax credit (not a deduction) of so many cents a gallon
for off road use of the gas.
--
Rich Greenberg Marietta, GA, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 770 321 6507
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red & Shasta (RIP),Red, husky Owner:Chinook-L
Atlanta Siberian Husky Rescue. www.panix.com/~richgr/ Asst Owner:Sibernet-L
| |
| Bughunter 2005-12-09, 11:21 am |
| > Many moons ago when I had a motorboat, I saved all my recipts for when I
> put gas in it, and when I did my federal taxes, I filled out a form
> which gave me a tax credit (not a deduction) of so many cents a gallon
> for off road use of the gas.
>
Every now and then I get a survey in the mail asking me to estimate how many
gallons of gasoline I use on my boats, and on which lakes. There is some
claim that they use this information to allocate gas tax revenues. I don;t
recall whether this was state or federal. I think it was federal, since most
gas tax is federal.
Not quite as nice as a personal tax abatement or credit, but at least it
makes it seem like some of that tax revenue will be returned to a local that
you use. That is, after the politicians take their cut.
| |
| William P.N. Smith 2005-12-09, 3:21 pm |
| "Phil" <pdl@imaginenet.net> wrote:
>am looking at the Honda eu2000 Generator, seems to have good reports and I
Speaking of which, anyone know why the 3KW version of this weighs so
much? The three models are:
1KW 28#
2KW 46# (23#/KW)
3KW 135# (45#/KW)
Yeah, it's got a bigger gas tank (though the weights above are dry),
and longer runtimes, but why is it twice as heavy per KW than the
others?
Thanks!
| |
| Fred Wesner 2005-12-09, 5:21 pm |
|
William P.N. Smith wrote:
>
> Speaking of which, anyone know why the 3KW version of this weighs so
> much? The three models are:
>
> 1KW 28#
> 2KW 46# (23#/KW)
> 3KW 135# (45#/KW)
>
> Yeah, it's got a bigger gas tank (though the weights above are dry),
> and longer runtimes, but why is it twice as heavy per KW than the
> others?
>
> Thanks!
William I have the EU3000. My guesses are:
Steel cabinet with heavy steel frame as opposed to plastic.
Electric start hardware and 12volt lead/acid battery.
Even the large gas cap is metal and fairly heavy.
I don't remember if the gas tank is plastic or metal...
I need to open mine because the battery will no longer hold a charge and
I have been pull starting it.
I don't have the wheel kit, but it sits nicely on one of those carpet
covered wood furniture movers. I CAN lift it if I need to, but only a
foot or so without wrecking my back!
Mine is not for RV use but for standby computer power at my residence,
so the weight is not really a problem. I can also run essentially the
whole house from it if I don't use the washing machine (all 120v
electric; everything else is Nat gas.).
Fred
| |
|
| The only thing I have read is just hope the inverter does not go out as it
is very costly to replace, some say the Yahmaha version is better, but I
have no test of this myself.
"Fred Wesner" <fwesner@removethis.pacbell.net.removethistoo> wrote in
message news:hHlmf.29095$7h7.8393@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
> William P.N. Smith wrote:
>
> William I have the EU3000. My guesses are:
>
> Steel cabinet with heavy steel frame as opposed to plastic.
> Electric start hardware and 12volt lead/acid battery.
> Even the large gas cap is metal and fairly heavy.
> I don't remember if the gas tank is plastic or metal...
> I need to open mine because the battery will no longer hold a charge and I
> have been pull starting it.
> I don't have the wheel kit, but it sits nicely on one of those carpet
> covered wood furniture movers. I CAN lift it if I need to, but only a
> foot or so without wrecking my back!
>
> Mine is not for RV use but for standby computer power at my residence, so
> the weight is not really a problem. I can also run essentially the whole
> house from it if I don't use the washing machine (all 120v electric;
> everything else is Nat gas.).
>
> Fred
>
>
>
>
|
|
|
|
|