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Home > Archive > Alternative Power sources > December 2005 > Voltage Adjustments on Honda ES6500
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Voltage Adjustments on Honda ES6500
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| philkryder 2005-12-25, 5:21 am |
| Our #2 Honda ES6500 was measured today with a voltage of 109-110
under load.
That seems low to us, but the unit has an AVR - Automatic Voltage
Regulator - which we can't adjust.
The number 1 unit was started for comparison and registered 119 volts -
with no load.
We were hypothesizing that we would be better off with both no load and
load voltage values about 9 volts higher.
2 questions -
Are these voltages significantly low?
Is there any way to "convince" the AVR to raise the voltage targets by
5- 10 volts?
Thanks much!
Phil
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| "philkryder" <alt.google@Kryder.com> wrote in message
news:1135498688.362177.117690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
: Our #2 Honda ES6500 was measured today with a voltage of
109-110
: under load.
:
: That seems low to us, but the unit has an AVR - Automatic
Voltage
: Regulator - which we can't adjust.
:
: The number 1 unit was started for comparison and registered 119
volts -
: with no load.
:
: We were hypothesizing that we would be better off with both no
load and
: load voltage values about 9 volts higher.
:
: 2 questions -
: Are these voltages significantly low?
: Is there any way to "convince" the AVR to raise the voltage
targets by
: 5- 10 volts?
:
: Thanks much!
: Phil
:
I don't know anything about the Honda group, but I will say those
voltages are fine and certainly well within spec.
Measuring no-load voltages isn't recommended - It's a pretty
meaningless figure.
Since you didn't measure loaded voltage on both units, you
don't even have a good comparison.
Depending on WHAT load you mean by "under load", those
voltages are perfectly fine and well within limits. I think you
need to do a better comparison and know what the loads are during
the comparison so they can be made equal - apples and apples.
Else you're not getting usable data.
HTH,
Pop
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| philkryder 2005-12-25, 1:21 pm |
| Pop -
What would you consider to be "below limits?"
Thanks
phil
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"philkryder" <alt.google@Kryder.com> wrote in message
news:1135528656.525887.73840@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
: Pop -
: What would you consider to be "below limits?"
: Thanks
: phil
:
Well, the "normal" range for grid voltage into a residence is
105 - 126V ac. Depending on where you are on a grid, the
nominals they shoot for are 110, 115, 120 and 122Vac. 105Vac is
where "brownout" conditions begin to arise and motors/lighting
begins to have problems and it's usually considered to be the
absolute lowest the grid should ever be allowed to get to and
then only for short periods of time.
In the Sioux Falls S.D area once we were troubleshooting some
product problems and found the line voltages, depending on the
condition of the facilities, ranged from a low of 95Vac, steady
state, which most places would consider to be in brownout, and as
high as 135Vac in some other places, another unacceptable number
for steady .
I just assume the range to shoot for is the grid specs since
that's what everything is designed to run on, and ideally that's
109 to 126V with a genset.
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| philkryder 2005-12-25, 6:21 pm |
|
Thanks -
So the 109 that we are seeing under load sounds like the just about the
bottom.
If possible, I'd like to raise it by 5-10 volts - to be more centered
in the acceptable range.
Does anyone have any thoughts on how to do that with an AVR?
I was wondering if there was a way to put a resistance in the line that
feeds the AC to the AVR to try to "trick" it into thinking the voltage
was a little lower than it actually is - thereby inducing the AVR to
"bump it up a notch (tm)"...
Thanks
phil
Pop wrote:
> "philkryder" <alt.google@Kryder.com> wrote in message
> news:1135528656.525887.73840@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> : Pop -
> : What would you consider to be "below limits?"
> : Thanks
> : phil
> :
> I just assume the range to shoot for is the grid specs since
> that's what everything is designed to run on, and ideally that's
> 109 to 126V with a genset.
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| Steve Spence 2005-12-25, 11:21 pm |
| Pop wrote:
> "philkryder" <alt.google@Kryder.com> wrote in message
> news:1135528656.525887.73840@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> : Pop -
> : What would you consider to be "below limits?"
> : Thanks
> : phil
> :
>
> Well, the "normal" range for grid voltage into a residence is
> 105 - 126V ac. Depending on where you are on a grid, the
> nominals they shoot for are 110, 115, 120 and 122Vac. 105Vac is
> where "brownout" conditions begin to arise and motors/lighting
> begins to have problems and it's usually considered to be the
> absolute lowest the grid should ever be allowed to get to and
> then only for short periods of time.
> In the Sioux Falls S.D area once we were troubleshooting some
> product problems and found the line voltages, depending on the
> condition of the facilities, ranged from a low of 95Vac, steady
> state, which most places would consider to be in brownout, and as
> high as 135Vac in some other places, another unacceptable number
> for steady .
> I just assume the range to shoot for is the grid specs since
> that's what everything is designed to run on, and ideally that's
> 109 to 126V with a genset.
>
>
Our generator produces 138-142 vac 61/62hz. Haven't had any electrical
equipment failures.
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
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| Nick Hull 2005-12-26, 8:21 am |
| In article <1135548748.000803.175190@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"philkryder" <alt.google@Kryder.com> wrote:
> Thanks -
> So the 109 that we are seeing under load sounds like the just about the
> bottom.
>
> If possible, I'd like to raise it by 5-10 volts - to be more centered
> in the acceptable range.
>
> Does anyone have any thoughts on how to do that with an AVR?
>
> I was wondering if there was a way to put a resistance in the line that
> feeds the AC to the AVR to try to "trick" it into thinking the voltage
> was a little lower than it actually is - thereby inducing the AVR to
> "bump it up a notch (tm)"...
IIRC, the Hondas have a special winding feeding only the AVR so what you
might try is putting a zener in series with that winding, or a series of
diodes. One time when I was having trouble with the AVR I wired in a
simple circuit with light bulbs as 'constant current' devices so I was
able to alter the generator output bu changing the light bulb wattage.
--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/
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| m Ransley 2005-12-26, 1:21 pm |
| Raise rpm of the motor. 3600 rpm = 120v 60hz. On no load higher is
normal. Set rpm under load to keep it where you need it. A simple
adjustment on mine of a nut on the govenor. It is common for units to
come new out of calibration or loosen and go out of calibration. I set
my 7500 for 120v 60 hz at 3000w, as I need no more than 3000w. A higher
start V will be easier on your gen, and motors. Higher run V or proper
voltage, will be easier on your electric motors and your gens
electronics. If % of V swing from no load to full load is out of line
with factory specs you are likely overloading the gen and it can`t
simply maintain safe levels, needing maximum engine power to try. Any
unit needs to be set to needed load and some go out of adjustment after
a period. I think my no load V is 126 or so.
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| philkryder 2005-12-26, 5:21 pm |
| Thanks - Mark -
but this is on our HONDA ES6500.
Not the Generac 7500.
We agree that we want the higher voltages - I just don't know how to
get them.
Are you saying that the Honda has similar adjustments and that by just
raising the the high idle to 3750 or so,
we can raise the voltage and NOT JUST the cycles?
I can see how the cyles would raise but I didn't think that would
affect the AVR..
By the way our cycles wer spot on at 60... (3600 rpm)...
m Ransley wrote:
> Raise rpm of the motor. 3600 rpm = 120v 60hz. On no load higher is
> normal. Set rpm under load to keep it where you need it. A simple
> adjustment on mine of a nut on the govenor. It is common for units to
> come new out of calibration or loosen and go out of calibration. I set
> my 7500 for 120v 60 hz at 3000w, as I need no more than 3000w. A higher
> start V will be easier on your gen, and motors. Higher run V or proper
> voltage, will be easier on your electric motors and your gens
> electronics. If % of V swing from no load to full load is out of line
> with factory specs you are likely overloading the gen and it can`t
> simply maintain safe levels, needing maximum engine power to try. Any
> unit needs to be set to needed load and some go out of adjustment after
> a period. I think my no load V is 126 or so.
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| m Ransley 2005-12-27, 1:21 am |
| what is rpm under load and V and hz.
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| philkryder 2005-12-27, 2:21 am |
| 60 cycle ---> 3600 rpm and
and from the Original Post...
"...
Our #2 Honda ES6500 was measured today with a voltage of 109-110
under load.
...."
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| m Ransley 2005-12-27, 11:21 am |
| If under load it is 3600 rpm 60 hz 106v it seems to be working a bit
hard, talk to Honda. You could try raising it 50-100 rpm and see if V
goes up, hz will also rise a bit , but should be ok, Honda will have a
better answer..
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| philkryder 2005-12-27, 6:21 pm |
| where did you get the 106v?
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| m Ransley 2005-12-27, 9:21 pm |
| 106 turn the 6 upside down and you have a 9 of course. A joke, sorry I
just forgot to re read your numbers. Good luck.
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