| Author |
Small grid intertie system?
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| me@privacy.net 2005-06-27, 4:25 am |
| Live in Missouri. Rent one side of a small duplex.
Live alone. But still interested in saving any money
possible
Having said all that I was fascinated abt the guerilla
net inter-tie people.
Just how small scale could I get into this?
I'm not wanting to make the electric meter run
backwards..... but only slow it down some. Save a few
bucks
Advice?
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| Reverse Meter 2005-06-27, 4:25 am |
| I'm in virtually the same boat and after picking up my first issue of Home Power Magazine in 1999
and reading about those guerilla solar guys, I was in! First I did an energy use audit and ended up
installing CF bulbs; turning the hot water tank thermostat down from 140 to 100 and wrapping it in
an insulation blanket; and eliminated virtually all phantom loads and wall warts.
I started with four used 30 watt mono-crystalline type PV's and a loaned Trace MicroSine 100
synchronous inverter which put out up to 100 watts of power back into the grid. A very small start
as I estimated it cut my electrical consumption from the grid by about 5 to 8%. Two years later I
moved and had to return the MicroSine unit back to the original owner. Now I just charge directly
to deep cycle batteries and use a 12v inverter for my lights, etc. Hope to save up eventually for a
Xantrex SW2412 or SW4024.. whichever comes up first.
I don't know of any smaller grid-tie inverters at under 1000 watts. There's a couple in Europe but
nothing available for North America. Smallest one I know of are those by Xantrex, Fronius,
Sunnyboy, etc. at 1000+ watts.
One of the nice things about this "hobby" is the fact that PV is plug and play and can be expanded
as time passes.
<me@privacy.net> wrote
quote:
> Live in Missouri. Rent one side of a small duplex.
> Live alone. But still interested in saving any money
> possible
>
> Having said all that I was fascinated abt the guerilla
> net inter-tie people.
>
> Just how small scale could I get into this?
>
> I'm not wanting to make the electric meter run
> backwards..... but only slow it down some. Save a few
> bucks
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| me@privacy.net 2005-06-27, 6:25 pm |
| >I don't know of any smaller grid-tie inverters at under 1000 watts. There's a couple in Europe but
quote:
>nothing available for North America. Smallest one I know of are those by Xantrex, Fronius,
>Sunnyboy, etc. at 1000+ watts.
Is there a "kit" I can buy that has everything I need
to do this on small scale?
A kit that has the panels and inverter and connecting
equip?
I'm not "up" on all ye devices out there. Don't wanna
take time to spec it out. Just wanna buy something I
can unpack and snap together and plug into a wall
outlet to feed energy back to the grid.
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| William P. N. Smith 2005-06-27, 6:25 pm |
| me@privacy.net wrote:
quote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
>Is there a "kit" I can buy that has everything I need
>to do this on small scale?
What's your definition of "small scale"? While there used to be 100W
grid-tie inverters, they are not UL-xxxx listed, and cannot be sold in
the US.
If your definition of "small scale" is 1KW (around $10K), you can buy
a kit of appropriate parts from a reputable vendor, but there's still
going to be some custom installation work, and you might be better off
talking to a local installer who can engineer the system, install it,
and maintain/warrant it for you.
quote:
>unpack and snap together and plug into a wall
>outlet to feed energy back to the grid.
Dunno for sure, but I don't think UL-xxxx allows plugs, probably has
to be hard-wired by a licensed electrician to code.
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| me@privacy.net 2005-06-27, 6:25 pm |
| >
quote:
>What's your definition of "small scale"? While there used to be 100W
>grid-tie inverters, they are not UL-xxxx listed, and cannot be sold in
>the US.
My definition is a couple hundred watts..... maybe?
Something that an apartment dweller can pack up and
move by himself if he should need to move?
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| John P Bengi 2005-06-27, 11:25 pm |
| I started out small scale (intentions anyway) I am now into it for about
$10K and I should save at least $200 per year.
It is fun though.
<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:cdh0c1dsoqjm5ue58hohmrvsdmjjii7vbo@4ax.com...
quote:
>
> My definition is a couple hundred watts..... maybe?
>
>
> Something that an apartment dweller can pack up and
> move by himself if he should need to move?
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| William P. N. Smith 2005-06-27, 11:25 pm |
| me@privacy.net wrote:
quote:
>My definition is a couple hundred watts..... maybe?
Again, the smallest legal grid-tie inverter is about a kilowatt, and
about a kilobuck.
quote:
>Something that an apartment dweller can pack up and
>move by himself if he should need to move?
And again, requires a licensed electrician to install to code.
That said, watch eBay listings for 100W grid-tie inverters of the type
that became illegal and buy yourself a 100W panel and a roll of wire,
and you can do the guerilla solar thing and thumb your nose at The Man
while you are sticking it to the power company and the NEC. Just make
sure your landlord's insurance is paid up and covers non-UL-listed
equipment. 8*)
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| Richard P. 2005-06-28, 4:25 am |
| If you'd like some more info and an example of something very close in size to what you want, make
sure you have Adobe Acrobat Reader and go to the Home Power webpage and check out the Guerilla Solar
section in the downloads area and look for profile #16. It's about a guy with 600 watts of PV and
does grid intertie. Pretty neat, definitely not a monster system nor piddly-a$$ed at 100 watts
(mind you a 100 watts is better than nothing!).
Here's the direct link if you are interested:
http://www.homepower.com/magazine/guerrilla.cfm
<me@privacy.net>
quote:
> My definition is a couple hundred watts..... maybe?
>
> Something that an apartment dweller can pack up and
> move by himself if he should need to move?
| |
| me@privacy.net 2005-06-28, 12:25 pm |
| >If you'd like some more info and an example of something very close in size to what you want, make
quote:
>sure you have Adobe Acrobat Reader and go to the Home Power webpage and check out the Guerilla Solar
>section in the downloads area and look for profile #16. It's about a guy with 600 watts of PV and
>does grid intertie. Pretty neat, definitely not a monster system nor piddly-a$$ed at 100 watts
>(mind you a 100 watts is better than nothing!).
>
>Here's the direct link if you are interested:
>
>http://www.homepower.com/magazine/guerrilla.cfm
Thanks!!
That's the info I was looking for
I'm surprised someone hasn't come up with a "kit" along
these lines for sale
Buy it...and it has everything you need
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| William P. N. Smith 2005-06-28, 6:25 pm |
| me@privacy.net wrote:
quote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
>I'm surprised someone hasn't come up with a "kit" along
>these lines for sale
Gack, AC cords for 24V solar power feeds. Yowza! And he still spent
$8.10/watt, and it's still illegal.
There's nothing wrong with doing the Guerilla Solar thang, BTW, just
that selling a kit for it might be a bit over the top...
If you've got the $5-10K have someone design and build you a real
system...
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| Derek Broughton 2005-06-28, 6:25 pm |
| me@privacy.net wrote:
quote:
>
> That's the info I was looking for
>
> I'm surprised someone hasn't come up with a "kit" along
> these lines for sale
It's called "product liability". If you sell something that violates the
NEC, you're sure to end up getting sued big-time if anything goes wrong
(and since it won't be UL listed, I guess there would be a significant
chance of prosecution even if nothing ever went wrong).
That said, there's nothing much different with his set up from mine (except
that I'm not grid connected, and my plugged disconnects are in proper wall
mounted electrical boxes, rather than that terrifying "lawn-mounted"
octopus).
--
derek
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| Richard P. 2005-06-29, 4:25 am |
| I've seen some ads a few years ago of some "AC" solar panels. They were basically a 24 volt PV with
a MicroSine attached to the back of it, all you had to do was mount it and plug it into a wall
outlet. I think there's an article or two about them in the HomePower mag website I mentioned
previously.
<me@privacy.net>
quote:
> Thanks!!
>
> That's the info I was looking for
>
> I'm surprised someone hasn't come up with a "kit" along
> these lines for sale
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| Anthony Matonak 2005-06-29, 12:25 pm |
| A few years ago they passed some form of regulation in the United States
which require grid tied inverters to pass some very strict tests. These
small inverters either couldn't pass these tests or the tests were too
expensive to bother with. In either case, the units are not compliant
with these new rules and therefore it's illegal to plug them into the
grid. Since they are illegal, they have stopped making (or at least,
selling) them. This is why you don't see adds for them anymore.
Anthony
Richard P. wrote:[vbcol=seagreen]
> I've seen some ads a few years ago of some "AC" solar panels. They were basically a 24 volt PV with
> a MicroSine attached to the back of it, all you had to do was mount it and plug it into a wall
> outlet. I think there's an article or two about them in the HomePower mag website I mentioned
> previously.
>
> <me@privacy.net>
>
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