quote:

---

>I need help with a few questions related to solar energy for my home.
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Summary
> I live in central Texas where it is hot with lots of sun. I have a
> 3,000 sq. ft. one story home (lots of roof space). Natural gas hot
> water heater, furnace, stove, and dryer. Everything else is electric.
>
> Questions:
> 1. When low energy light bulbs first appeared a decade or more ago I
> jumped right in and bought lots of them for $10-15 a piece if I recall.
> Still glad I got them but now I see 4 packs of more efficient bulbs
> that are smaller and cost about a fifth of what I paid. I feel like I
> might have gotten a better return if I had waited before jumping in. My
> question is: Where is the solar energy industry (for home use) relative
> to my light bulb example? Should I jump in now or would I be better
> off giving it a few more years?

quote:

---

>
> 2. I don't want to mess with batteries or be 100% off-grid. Couldn't I
> buy (for example) 4 165w panels and have them wired into the house and
> use them to supplement my daytime usage with the rest coming from the
> power company? At night I would be 100% on the power company.

quote:

---

>
> 3. I need to call my power company and ask them some questions. I can
> only think of two so far. Am I missing something?
>
> A. Are there any rebates, tax credits, or special programs that they
> offer?
>
> B. Do I need a different electric meter in the event my panels produce
> more than I am using (such as when the AC is off) or will the current
> one spin backwards.

quote:

---

>
> 3. Do I need a contractor to do the panel installation that has
> experience with solar panels or should any electrician be able to do
> the work?

quote:

---

>
> 4. Any other comments or advice is much appreciated!

quote:

---

>
> Thanks again, Bo
>

quote:

---

>One technology that can surely be considered "mature" is solar water heaters.

quote:

---

> I need help with a few questions related to solar energy for my home.
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Summary
> I live in central Texas where it is hot with lots of sun. I have a
> 3,000 sq. ft. one story home (lots of roof space). Natural gas hot
> water heater, furnace, stove, and dryer. Everything else is electric.
>
> Questions:
> 1. When low energy light bulbs first appeared a decade or more ago I
> jumped right in and bought lots of them for $10-15 a piece if I recall.
> Still glad I got them but now I see 4 packs of more efficient bulbs
> that are smaller and cost about a fifth of what I paid. I feel like I
> might have gotten a better return if I had waited before jumping in. My
> question is: Where is the solar energy industry (for home use) relative
> to my light bulb example? Should I jump in now or would I be better
> off giving it a few more years?
>
> 2. I don't want to mess with batteries or be 100% off-grid. Couldn't I
> buy (for example) 4 165w panels and have them wired into the house and
> use them to supplement my daytime usage with the rest coming from the
> power company? At night I would be 100% on the power company.

quote:

---

> 3. I need to call my power company and ask them some questions. I can
> only think of two so far. Am I missing something?
>
> A. Are there any rebates, tax credits, or special programs that they
> offer?
>
> B. Do I need a different electric meter in the event my panels produce
> more than I am using (such as when the AC is off) or will the current
> one spin backwards.

quote:

---

> 3. Do I need a contractor to do the panel installation that has
> experience with solar panels or should any electrician be able to do
> the work?
>
> 4. Any other comments or advice is much appreciated!
>
> Thanks again, Bo

quote:

---

>I need help with a few questions related to solar energy for my home.
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Summary
>I live in central Texas where it is hot with lots of sun. I have a
>3,000 sq. ft. one story home (lots of roof space). Natural gas hot
>water heater, furnace, stove, and dryer. Everything else is electric.
>
>Questions:
>1. When low energy light bulbs first appeared a decade or more ago I
>jumped right in and bought lots of them for $10-15 a piece if I recall.
> Still glad I got them but now I see 4 packs of more efficient bulbs
>that are smaller and cost about a fifth of what I paid. I feel like I
>might have gotten a better return if I had waited before jumping in. My
>question is: Where is the solar energy industry (for home use) relative
>to my light bulb example? Should I jump in now or would I be better
>off giving it a few more years?
>
>2. I don't want to mess with batteries or be 100% off-grid. Couldn't I
>buy (for example) 4 165w panels and have them wired into the house and
>use them to supplement my daytime usage with the rest coming from the
>power company? At night I would be 100% on the power company.
>
>3. I need to call my power company and ask them some questions. I can
>only think of two so far. Am I missing something?
>
>A. Are there any rebates, tax credits, or special programs that they
>offer?
>
>B. Do I need a different electric meter in the event my panels produce
>more than I am using (such as when the AC is off) or will the current
>one spin backwards.
>
>3. Do I need a contractor to do the panel installation that has
>experience with solar panels or should any electrician be able to do
>the work?
>
>4. Any other comments or advice is much appreciated!
>
>Thanks again, Bo

quote:

---

> "Bo" <stockcar@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1119715654.576951.90430@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> One technology that can surely be considered "mature" is solar water
> heaters. This probably should be one of the first solar systems for you to
> consider.
>
>
>
>
> Yes, you need a "grid tie" inverter. That kind of equipment probably
> starts about 1KW in size, several KW is more common. Now think about "Payback"
> for your system. Suppose you install a 1 KW system and you are lucky enough to
> get a average of six hours of full sun per day. At 10 cents per KWH, your
> investment would return (assuming 10 cents/kwh) 60 cents per day, less
> maintenance cost. From there, you can do the rest of the math.
>
>
>
>
> The key term for "B" is "net metering".
>
>
>
> You should use a solar-experienced contractor only if it is important to
> you that your system actually functions after the installation is complete.
>
>
>
>
> Sadly, your best payback will be with conservation and solar domestic hot
> water systems unless there is some government incentive program to take up the
> financial slack.
>
> Vaughn
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

quote:

---

>Anything that generates electricity is too expensive

quote:

---

>and too complex for the average home owner.

quote:

---

>"Bo" <stockcar@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1119715654.576951.90430@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
Get in as soon as you can justify it see my earlier comment elsewhere
for a couple of tax implications I have found.
[vbcol=seagreen]
You are quite correct Sqlit is blowing a lot of smoke from a plant
illegal even in Texas
[vbcol=seagreen]
>SQLit:
>Not much point in even considering solar if you are not willing to deal with
>batteries. Solar can in NO WAY power any house hold appliances directly.
>Unless of course your willing to spend more than you paid for your house.
>
>

quote:

---

>
>SQLit: If you not connecting to the utility then the meter stays the same. I
>highly recommend this approach. Most consumers are not competent enough to
>maintain all of the related equipment that YOU purchase to tie into the
>grid.
>
>
>

quote:

---

Actually a contractor familiar with solar is a good idea, because the DC
power although frequently wired in low voltage strings of 24 to 48 volts
can be wired in higher voltage strings possible with some inverters
(mine runs as high as 450). In any case DC has some special
considerations, and you either must educate yourself, or go with a
contractor familiar with high power DC wiring. The power I am referring
to is the wattage not the operating voltage.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> <>SQLit:
> Insulation, shading windows and a higher seer a/c will be better pay offs
> than installing a solar electric system. Solar hot water is proven
> technology but it is not with out some maintenance and issues. Since your
> using gas for hot water I would not consider spending $4-6K for a
> solar hot
> water system.

quote:

---

> On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 22:41:20 GMT, Ed Earl Ross <edearl@satx.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Probably true for most people, although one could say the same about
> SUVs. :-).
>
>
>
>
> Not any more. The hardware, if done properly, can be idiot proof.
> Grid-tied systems don't generally require anything beyond occasional
> module cleaning. Even battery maintenance can be eliminated by using
> AGMs. Should anything else be required, it's only a matter of
> scheduling a visit by a tech, which shouldn't be any different than
> arranging a plumbing repair.

quote:

---

>I need help with a few questions related to solar energy for my home.
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Summary
>I live in central Texas where it is hot with lots of sun. I have a
>3,000 sq. ft. one story home (lots of roof space). Natural gas hot
>water heater, furnace, stove, and dryer. Everything else is electric.
>
>Questions:
>1. When low energy light bulbs first appeared a decade or more ago I
>jumped right in and bought lots of them for $10-15 a piece if I recall.
> Still glad I got them but now I see 4 packs of more efficient bulbs
>that are smaller and cost about a fifth of what I paid. I feel like I
>might have gotten a better return if I had waited before jumping in. My
>question is: Where is the solar energy industry (for home use) relative
>to my light bulb example? Should I jump in now or would I be better
>off giving it a few more years?

quote:

---

>
>2. I don't want to mess with batteries or be 100% off-grid. Couldn't I
>buy (for example) 4 165w panels and have them wired into the house and
>use them to supplement my daytime usage with the rest coming from the
>power company? At night I would be 100% on the power company.
>

quote:

---

>3. I need to call my power company and ask them some questions. I can
>only think of two so far. Am I missing something?
>

quote:

---

>A. Are there any rebates, tax credits, or special programs that they
>offer?
>
>B. Do I need a different electric meter in the event my panels produce
>more than I am using (such as when the AC is off) or will the current
>one spin backwards.
>
>3. Do I need a contractor to do the panel installation that has
>experience with solar panels or should any electrician be able to do
>the work?
>
>4. Any other comments or advice is much appreciated!
>

quote:

---

>wmbjk wrote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
[vbcol=seagreen]
>If it is so user friendly, why is it necessary for a visit by a
>tech.
>n I rest my case on complexity. Yes, most people cannot
>maintain their vehicle--so.

quote:

---

>The difference between a personal vehicle and a PV power plant is
>simple. In most of the US, no alternative to a personal vehicle
>exists, in other words, in most of the US, mass transit does not
>exist. A vehicle is required to live--buy groceries, visit the
>doctor, go to work, etc. However, in most cases, a PV system is not
>essential for living, as one can buy all the electricity needed
>from the grid, much cheaper than a personal PV system.

quote:

---

> On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 02:36:09 GMT, Ed Earl Ross <edearl@satx.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> A properly done home power system is much easier to maintain than a
> car, and more reliable as well. When either breaks down, most folks
> are going to need help, same as they do with a washing machine or a
> TV. None are "too complex for the average homeowner". Now, if you were
> talking about VCRs and blinking clocks, you'd have a good point. ;-)
>
>
>
>
> Of course. But how does that make it too complex for the average
> homeowner? The only thing in a grid-tied power system that might
> frighten someone is the inverter. Have you ever seen one in person, or
> read the operator's manual?

quote:

---

> From such life experiences, I've come to love simplicity. Better things
> generally have fewer parts to break. A PV system has too many breakable
> parts. The big exception to my simplicity guideline is my computer.
> However, I've worked with computers for more than 30 years. When it
> breaks, I can fix it. I don't have to throw money away until I luck out,
> and find a competent and honest service person.
>
> We have a difference of opinion. I will not change mine, and cannot change
> yours.
>
> --
> Humbly--Ed
>
> "If the man doesn't believe as we do,
> we say he is a crank, and that settles it.
> I mean, it does nowadays, because now we
> can't burn him." (Mark Twain)

quote:

---

>wmbjk wrote:

quote:

---

[vbcol=seagreen]
> From such life experiences, I've come to love simplicity. Better
>things generally have fewer parts to break.

quote:

---

> A PV system has too
>many breakable parts.

quote:

---

> The big exception to my simplicity guideline
>is my computer. However, I've worked with computers for more than
>30 years. When it breaks, I can fix it. I don't have to throw money
>away until I luck out, and find a competent and honest service person.

quote:

---

>We have a difference of opinion. I will not change mine, and cannot
>change yours.

quote:

---

>things generally have fewer parts to break. A PV system has too
>many breakable parts.

quote:

---

>
> I'm lurking on this thread...
> But have to ask..... what breakable parts would be in a
> PV system?
> They are pretty much solid state. No?

quote:

---

> A Grid-Tie PV system has only one part that might break , that's the
> inverter. Standard warranties for the current generation of inverters
> is 5 year to 10 years , standard.

quote:

---

> The Panels are warranted for 25 years , I would challenge you to find
> anything that can be bought and installed in a home that has this type of
> longevity
>
> I already know we won't change your "opinion" , but your opinion is not
> based on the actual systems and components available nor have you even
> installed or seen them in action
>
> So enjoy what you believe , for the others that might read this thread , and
> from another actual owner of these systems , they require no attention ,
> zip. They just produce power
>
>
> "Ed Earl Ross" <edearl@satx.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:wMCve.55873$j51.12496@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>
>
>
>

quote:

---

> On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 18:49:00 GMT, Ed Earl Ross <edearl@satx.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> True.
>
>
>
>
> No. A grid-tied only system for instance has a minimum of parts.
> Modules are dead reliable as evidenced by their 20+ year warranties,
> and their mounting is generally bulletproof. All that's left is the
> inverter. It's a sophisticated box, but most houses are already full
> of such things that are much less robust.

quote:

---

>
>
> Finding good repair people can be a tough job no matter what product
> needs the work. I don't believe that solar has any special distinction
> in that regard. Consider this - if you've followed this newsgroup for
> any length of time, you may have noticed that of the several
> professionals who post, only one is a goofball, and you wouldn't have
> any trouble picking him out in an interview.
>
>
>
>
> I'm sorry to hear that, because if you're interested in home power, it
> can be easier, sometimes more affordable, and have fewer potential
> pitfalls than say, a bathroom renovation. In case you missed this
> link, here it is again
> http://www.homepower.com/magazine/guerrilla.cfm It will take you to a
> couple dozen interesting stories about a variety of grid-tied systems.
>
> Wayne

quote:

---

>
>
> I'm lurking on this thread...
>
> But have to ask..... what breakable parts would be in a
> PV system?
>
> They are pretty much solid state. No?

quote:

---

>Please forgive me. I have an electronic engineering degree...

quote:

---

>Warranties may or may not have anything to do with Mean Time
>Between Failures (MTBF). For example, suppose a widget costs $1 to
>make and has a one year MTBF. A company may warranty the widget for
>five years and sell it for $10, or they may warranty it for one
>year and sell it for $2.

quote:

---

>Each solar panel is made of many solar cells, with interconnections
>(wiring) between them. Each cell and each connection is a potential
>failure point. Though one panel might have an MTBF of 25 years,
>twenty-five panels have an MTBF of one year...

quote:

---

> me@privacy.net wrote:

quote:

---

>
> Every transistor, every diode, every solar cell, and every
> interconnection to a chip is a failure point. Everything eventually
> fails, it is only a matter of how long. Recurring cycles of hot an cold
> wear on anything, including solid state electronics and granite mountains.

quote:

---

> wmbjk wrote:
>
> From such life experiences, I've come to love simplicity. Better
> things generally have fewer parts to break. A PV system has too
> many breakable parts. The big exception to my simplicity guideline
> is my computer. However, I've worked with computers for more than
> 30 years. When it breaks, I can fix it. I don't have to throw money
> away until I luck out, and find a competent and honest service person.
>
> We have a difference of opinion. I will not change mine, and cannot
> change yours.

quote:

---

> "Bo" <stockcar@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1119715654.576951.90430@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> One technology that can surely be considered "mature" is solar water
> heaters. This probably should be one of the first solar systems for you
> to consider.

quote:

---

>
> Yes, you need a "grid tie" inverter. That kind of equipment probably
> starts about 1KW in size, several KW is more common. Now think about
> "Payback" for your system. Suppose you install a 1 KW system and you are
> lucky enough to
> get a average of six hours of full sun per day. At 10 cents per KWH, your
> investment would return (assuming 10 cents/kwh) 60 cents per day, less
> maintenance cost. From there, you can do the rest of the math.

quote:

---

>
> You should use a solar-experienced contractor only if it is important
> to
> you that your system actually functions after the installation is
> complete.

quote:

---

> Ed Earl Ross <edearl@satx.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> You are forgiven :-) I have two.
>
>
>
>
> The 5 year version might make for a bad company reputation,
> altho it didn't for Craftsman tools. It might also bankrupt
> the company, if it restarts with each replacement.

quote:

---

>
>
> And if it can keep working with 24 panels?

quote:

---

> Ed Earl Ross wrote:
>
>
> ...
>
>
>
> Sure, but they have had PV panels working for 20 years without showing
> signs of failure and there is every expectation that they will continue
> working for over 50 years. I've seen installations with hundreds of
> panels and they don't replace them every year so clearly whatever the
> failure rate of PV panels in normal use might be, it's a very long time.

quote:

---

> Each solar panel is made of many solar cells, with interconnections
> (wiring) between them. Each cell and each connection is a potential
> failure point. Though one panel might have an MTBF of 25 years,
> twenty-five panels have an MTBF of one year--actually less, because
> each panel is connected by two wires to another panel or to the
> inverter and each connection is a failure point.

quote:

---

>
>It is still a panel failure that must be repaired or replaced.
>Though your system continues to work with a panel down, it cannot
>output as much power.

quote:

---

> I have no idea what the MTBF is on solar panels. Doesn't their
> generating capacity deteriorate over time?
>
> --
> Humbly--Ed

quote:

---

> Ed Earl Ross <edearl@satx.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> What's the 24-panel system availability?

quote:

---

> Fortunately, grid systems are well grounded, and lightning doesn't
> often get to your home.

quote:

---

> Ed Earl Ross wrote:
>
>
>
>
> You have _got_ to be kidding. You must be talking about power systems in
> urban areas. In my last grid connected home, despite using surge
> protectors for everything possible, I lost two VCR's, a stereo receiver and
> a satellite receiver due to lightning (at four different times).