quote:

---

> Hi all,
>
> I live in rural eastern New Mexico. High winds combined with fragile
> transmission systems create occassional power outages.
>
> I want to put together a simple, inexpensive emergency power supply
> and want some suggestions.
>
> Here's what I have in mind...
>
> 12V battery (standard, eventually deep-cycle)
> 120V power inverter (I replaced the low-battery buzzer w/ an LED
> light)
> Small 12V solar panel for recharging
> 120V Fluorecent light (to provide light w/ minimum power drain)
> Wooden box (to tie everything together)
>
> Anything else I need in the way of gauges (I really don't care if the
> battery goes dead while I'm using it) or regulators? This is going to
> be very light duty.
>
> Maybe there are some websites that could give me some pointers.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -- Christian
>
> Save Darfur -- http://www.savedarfur.org/
> World Vision (Darfur) -- http://donate.wvus.org/OA_HTML/xxwv...25&item=1072182
> ICC (Sudan) -- http://www.persecution.org/Countries/sudan.html

quote:

---

> Hi all,
>
> I live in rural eastern New Mexico. High winds combined with fragile
> transmission systems create occassional power outages.
>
> I want to put together a simple, inexpensive emergency power supply
> and want some suggestions.
>
> Here's what I have in mind...
>
> 12V battery (standard, eventually deep-cycle)
> 120V power inverter (I replaced the low-battery buzzer w/ an LED
> light)
> Small 12V solar panel for recharging
> 120V Fluorecent light (to provide light w/ minimum power drain)
> Wooden box (to tie everything together)
>
> Anything else I need in the way of gauges (I really don't care if the
> battery goes dead while I'm using it) or regulators? This is going to
> be very light duty.
>
> Maybe there are some websites that could give me some pointers.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -- Christian

quote:

---

>
> "Christian M. Mericle" <newsgroupinky@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:r7lqc152tau2smevp18eddiphmddmflmlj@4ax.com...
>
> Informational purposes you can try the Costco web site they sell systems
> also Harbor Freight.
>
> Your concept of a small solar panel is self limiting. Most small panels
> are
> not much good other than for trickle charging. Which may not be enough to
> bring your battery back from a deep discharge. Do you plan to add in a
> 120v
> charger when the utility graces you with power?
>
> Battery maintenance is important so getting a hygrometer would be a good
> idea.
>
> Try and visit the Zome Works folks, in NM. Lots of talent and excellent
> ideas in that group.
>
>

quote:

---

> Hi all,
>
> I live in rural eastern New Mexico. High winds combined with fragile
> transmission systems create occassional power outages.
>
> I want to put together a simple, inexpensive emergency power supply
> and want some suggestions.
>
> Here's what I have in mind...
>
> 12V battery (standard, eventually deep-cycle)

quote:

---

>
>"Christian M. Mericle" <newsgroupinky@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:r7lqc152tau2smevp18eddiphmddmflmlj@4ax.com...
>
>Informational purposes you can try the Costco web site they sell systems
>also Harbor Freight.
>
>Your concept of a small solar panel is self limiting. Most small panels are
>not much good other than for trickle charging. Which may not be enough to
>bring your battery back from a deep discharge. Do you plan to add in a 120v
>charger when the utility graces you with power?

quote:

---

>Battery maintenance is important so getting a hygrometer would be a good
>idea.

quote:

---

>Try and visit the Zome Works folks, in NM. Lots of talent and excellent
>ideas in that group.

quote:

---

>"Christian M. Mericle" <newsgroupinky@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:r7lqc152tau2smevp18eddiphmddmflmlj@4ax.com...
>
> Other than the light, what loads are you planning to connect? As Steve
>mentioned, a 12 volt flourescent light is the best plan, then only run the
>inverter when you have 110 V loads. Also think of things like a 12 volt TV
>and a 12 volt cell phone charger to deal with your basic needs in the most
>efficient manner.

quote:

---

>"Christian M. Mericle" <newsgroupinky@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:r7lqc152tau2smevp18eddiphmddmflmlj@4ax.com...
>
>As the other posters say, keep everything extremely low drain. Buy
>appliances that run off of 12V. If you have a laptop, use a 12V power
>adapter. Don't try to run household appliances. A non-deep-cycle battery
>will last perhaps ten cycles.
>
>Make up a list of needs:
>radio

quote:

---

>light

quote:

---

>clock

quote:

---

>laptop

quote:

---

>razor

quote:

---

>cellphone charger

quote:

---

>charger for portable appliance batteries

quote:

---

>In your list, you do not mention a charge controller. However, this is
>necessary to get even minimal life out of the battery, unless you are
>willing to stand over it during the charging process.

quote:

---

>appliances that run off of 12V

quote:

---

>out of the battery before it discharges. I was thinking of using the
>inverter w/ 110V everything (lights, etc.) but I'll start gathering
>12V items. I already have a small 12V television. I need to get the
>light, a fan, car chargers for the cell phone and notebook computer...

quote:

---

>
>
> What abt buying and using one of those portable car
> battery jumpers?
>
> They usually have 12 cigarette lighter sockets.

quote:

---

> "Christian M. Mericle" <newsgroupinky@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:r7lqc152tau2smevp18eddiphmddmflmlj@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> Informational purposes you can try the Costco web site they sell systems
> also Harbor Freight.
>
> Your concept of a small solar panel is self limiting. Most small panels are
> not much good other than for trickle charging. Which may not be enough to
> bring your battery back from a deep discharge. Do you plan to add in a 120v
> charger when the utility graces you with power?
>
> Battery maintenance is important so getting a hygrometer would be a good

quote:

---

> idea.
>
> Try and visit the Zome Works folks, in NM. Lots of talent and excellent
> ideas in that group.
>
>

quote:

---

Just a note... If you plan on taking all this gear with you in your
VW Van then you might want to remember that it's got a battery and
charger already built in.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> My only thoughts are that over in the RV newsgroup they
> recommend buying standard 120 vac devices and using an
> "inverter" to convert Dc to Ac to run em all
>
> I guess 12 volt devices are hard to find and costlier.

quote:

---

>
> My only thoughts are that over in the RV newsgroup they
> recommend buying standard 120 vac devices and using an
> "inverter" to convert Dc to Ac to run em all
>
> I guess 12 volt devices are hard to find and costlier.

quote:

---

> On Thu, 7 Jul 2005 16:28:36 -0400, "Robert Morein"
> <herethereeverywhere@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>
> Have a battery powered local/worldband and a handcrank local (w/
> flashlight) so I won't have to rely on this setup for those.
>
>
> On the list.
>
>
> Wristwatch. {:o)
>
>
> Need to get a 12V power supply.
>
>
> Never could use an electric razor.
>
>
> Need one of these, too.
>
>
> Can I get a 12V version? If so, any thoughts on

quote:

---

>
>
> Will I need a charge controller w/ the 12V solar panel or just if I
> charge w/ a 110V charger (if it doesn't have one built in)?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -- Christian
>
> Save Darfur -- http://www.savedarfur.org/
> World Vision (Darfur) --

quote:

---

> ICC (Sudan) -- http://www.persecution.org/Countries/sudan.html

quote:

---

>
> Will I need a charge controller w/ the 12V solar panel or just if I
> charge w/ a 110V charger (if it doesn't have one built in)?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -- Christian
>

quote:

---

>
> "joe" <jduarte0421@rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:KaqdnSiBD9qB8VDfRVn-pQ@rogers.com...
> to
> There doesn't seem to be anything to click on (no links), just pictures.
> What am I missing. BTW I am working on one of these right now so I am
> particularly interested in anything I may have overlooked.
>
>

quote:

---

>
>
>SQLit wrote:
>
>
>Hygrometer - noun: Measuring instrument for measuring the relative
>humidity of the atmosphere
>
>Hydrometer - noun: A measuring instrument for determining the specific
>gravity of a liquid or solid

quote:

---

>me@privacy.net wrote:
>
>Just a note... If you plan on taking all this gear with you in your
>VW Van then you might want to remember that it's got a battery and
>charger already built in.

quote:

---

>
> "Christian M. Mericle" <newsgroupinky@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:qvarc15b871erp91bgv0bpecrq6bh7b0it@4ax.com...
> [snip]
> 12V panels don't actually put out 12V. Depending upon the brand, the load
> and intensity of sunlight, they put out anywhere from nothing to 18 volts.
> Even a small panel can cook your battery!
> Here's a small, cheap charge controller:
> http://www.icpsolar.com/specificati...?id_article=340
> and a 21 amp version
> http://www.icpsolar.com/specificati...?id_article=341
>
> I have a spare 21 amp version I'd sell cheap.
> Sure, you can use an AC charger instead of solar. I was just over at

quote:

---

> where they're selling an 8 amp Vector smart charger (AC) for $40!
>
> Now I don't mean to take the wind out of your sails, and I'm sure there is
> some philosophy behind your choice of battery/solar. But the biggest bang
> for the buck, by far, is from a small AC generator. This is a terrific

quote:

---

> http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outdoor...442/0/home.aspx

quote:

---

> They appear frequently on eBay:
>

quote:

---

>
> In your application, it will actually last longer, because a battery dies
> whether you use it or not. ONE BATTERY is heavier than this generator,
> harder to store, and stores a negligible fraction of the energy of can of
> gasoline.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

quote:

---

>
> "Robert Morein" <herethereeverywhere@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:Z66dnXtOa7uynlPfRVn-iQ@comcast.com...

quote:

---

is[vbcol=seagreen]
bang[vbcol=seagreen]
> unit:
>
> Finally someone who likes the Yamaha generators. I am considering a

quote:

---

> to replace my Honda eu2000i but the only reviews I could find were from
> people in Florida who *plan* to use it during the next hurricane (may be
> soon now) but haven't actually used it much.
>

quote:

---

>"Christian M. Mericle" <newsgroupinky@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:qvarc15b871erp91bgv0bpecrq6bh7b0it@4ax.com...

quote:

---

>12V panels don't actually put out 12V. Depending upon the brand, the load
>and intensity of sunlight, they put out anywhere from nothing to 18 volts.
>Even a small panel can cook your battery!
>Here's a small, cheap charge controller:
>http://www.icpsolar.com/specificati...?id_article=340
>and a 21 amp version
>http://www.icpsolar.com/specificati...?id_article=341
>
>I have a spare 21 amp version I'd sell cheap.
>Sure, you can use an AC charger instead of solar. I was just over at Lowe's,
>where they're selling an 8 amp Vector smart charger (AC) for $40!

quote:

---

>Now I don't mean to take the wind out of your sails, and I'm sure there is
>some philosophy behind your choice of battery/solar. But the biggest bang
>for the buck, by far, is from a small AC generator. This is a terrific unit:
>http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outdoor...442/0/home.aspx
>They appear frequently on eBay:
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...7527282995&rd=1
>
>In your application, it will actually last longer, because a battery dies
>whether you use it or not. ONE BATTERY is heavier than this generator,
>harder to store, and stores a negligible fraction of the energy of can of
>gasoline.

quote:

---

>
> "Ulysses" <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:11ct83vj2cjjd7b@corp.supernews.com...
> [snip]
there[vbcol=seagreen]
> is
> bang
> EF2800i
> What happened to your Honda? There have been reports (on this group?) that
> inverters have failed with very little provocation, and the cost of the
> module is so high that repairs are prohibitive.

quote:

---

>
> My Yamaha EF3000 has hair-trigger overload protection, but perhaps that's
> why it has a better reputation for reliability.
>
> As for my experience, it's built like a jewel, and the quietest generator
> I've ever heard. However, certain loads that inject noise into the line do
> trigger the protection circuit. It would not work with the generator input
> of my SW4024PLUS until I put a very substantial noise filter in between

quote:

---

> two. A scope on the line disclosed the reason: high amplitude transients
> coming out of the input of the SW4024PLUS.
>
>

quote:

---

> On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 00:38:06 -0400, "Robert Morein"
> <herethereeverywhere@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
volts.[vbcol=seagreen]
Lowe's,[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I was worried about proper charging so I'll get one of these. In the
> meantime, I'll sitck with the car charger.
>
is[vbcol=seagreen]
unit:[vbcol=seagreen]
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...7&item=75272829

quote:

---

>
> There is a philosophy behind my choice...
>
> 1) Someone gave me a fairly new car battery.
> 2) I already have a small solar panel.
> 3) I already have a power inverter.
> 4) I'm short on cash. (The generator is nice but many times more
> expensive than what I'm putting together.)

quote:

---

>
> Thanks!
>
> -- Christian
>
> Save Darfur -- http://www.savedarfur.org/
> World Vision (Darfur) --

quote:

---

> ICC (Sudan) -- http://www.persecution.org/Countries/sudan.html

quote:

---

> On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 09:21:55 +1000, George Ghio <AKA@nomailhere.com>
> wrote:
>
systems[vbcol=seagreen]
panels are[vbcol=seagreen]
to[vbcol=seagreen]
120v[vbcol=seagreen]
good[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> I looked up the definition. I just don't know how it relates to a
> battery.
>
> -- Christian
>
> Save Darfur -- http://www.savedarfur.org/
> World Vision (Darfur) --

quote:

---

> ICC (Sudan) -- http://www.persecution.org/Countries/sudan.html

quote:

---

> On Thu, 7 Jul 2005 16:28:36 -0400, "Robert Morein"
> <herethereeverywhere@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>
> Have a battery powered local/worldband and a handcrank local (w/
> flashlight) so I won't have to rely on this setup for those.
>
>
> On the list.
>
>
> Wristwatch. {:o)
>
>
> Need to get a 12V power supply.
>
>
> Never could use an electric razor.
>
>
> Need one of these, too.
>
>
> Can I get a 12V version? If so, any thoughts on where?
>
>
> Will I need a charge controller w/ the 12V solar panel or just if I
> charge w/ a 110V charger (if it doesn't have one built in)?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -- Christian
>
> Save Darfur -- http://www.savedarfur.org/
> World Vision (Darfur) --
> http://donate.wvus.org/OA_HTML/xxwv...25&item=1072182
> ICC (Sudan) -- http://www.persecution.org/Countries/sudan.html

quote:

---

> On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 09:21:55 +1000, George Ghio <AKA@nomailhere.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I looked up the definition. I just don't know how it relates to a
> battery.
>
> -- Christian

quote:

---

>

quote:

---

>
>Christian, while John is almost correct, it is more correct that a
>hydrometer is useful to determine the health of a battery.
>
>Batteries are not, as some would have you believe, boxes full of
>electricity. A battery is, in reality, a box of chemicals that that have
>the potential, though chemical reaction, to cause electrons to flow
>through a circuit.
>
>When discharging lead acid batteries produce electricity when the
>negative (lead) plate reacts with sulphuric acid and forms lead
>sulphate. At the same time the positive plate (lead dioxide) is also
>converted to lead sulphate.
>
>When being charged, the reverse reactions occur.
>
>A fully charged cell should have a specific gravity of around 1.25 - 1.28
>
>If after charging all day you find a cell that has a SG of 1.11 while
>all the other cell have a SG of 1.23 then it is a good bet that you have
>a dud cell.
>
>This is somewhat more accurate than measuring the voltage in that the
>electrolyte is separate from all other cells while the voltage is
>measured as part of a circuit which may cause a false reading as the
>other cells are trying to charge the dead cell.

quote:

---

>have you looked at computer mods for lighting etc its all 12 volt
>"Christian M. Mericle" <newsgroupinky@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:qvarc15b871erp91bgv0bpecrq6bh7b0it@4ax.com...


Depends how deap you cycle the battery. if you go to 80%dod each cycle
reduces the life of the batery by roughly 50%
At a 20%dod, you are looking at less than 5% for sure - more likely
less than 1%. That said - definitely get deep cycle batteries, because
a 20%dod is not a lot of usable power.[vbcol=seagreen]

And as for the hydrometer - definitely good to have with flooded acid
batteries - but absolutely useless with AGM (or gell cell).[vbcol=seagreen]
>

quote:

---

> On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 22:55:48 +1000, George Ghio <AKA@nomailhere.com>
> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>
>
> Okay, I thought it might be something like that. I gather that the
> hydrometer is not permanently attached but is used periodically
> (regularly?) to check the charge and health of the battery. Is that
> correct?
>
> -- Christian
>
> Save Darfur -- http://www.savedarfur.org/
> World Vision (Darfur) -- http://donate.wvus.org/OA_HTML/xxwv...25&item=1072182
> ICC (Sudan) -- http://www.persecution.org/Countries/sudan.html

quote:

---

> Pretty much. To be honest I only check the SG of my batteries a few times a
> year. OTOH I check the voltage of of the bank 3 - 4 times a day as well as the
> charge going in and every morning I check the previous days consumption. It's
> just a push of a button so it is easy. Small problems don't get a chance to
> become big problems.

quote:

---

> "George Ghio" <AKA@nomailhere.com> wrote in message
> news:42d388d5_2@news.chariot.net.au...
>
>
>
> I am worse than that. I check my AGM batteries with an automotive load
> checker every year just before storm season. I look at the display lights on my
> charge controller when I happen to be out there. Because of the design of my
> controller, as long as my yard lights keep coming on every night, I know that my
> battery must have an adequate charge.
>
> It has worked for me so far.
>
> Vaughn
>
>

quote:

---

> On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 22:55:48 +1000, George Ghio <AKA@nomailhere.com>
> wrote:
> <snip>
>
> Okay, I thought it might be something like that. I gather that the
> hydrometer is not permanently attached but is used periodically
> (regularly?) to check the charge and health of the battery. Is that
> correct?

quote:

---

>
> -- Christian
>
> Save Darfur -- http://www.savedarfur.org/
> World Vision (Darfur) --

quote:

---

> ICC (Sudan) -- http://www.persecution.org/Countries/sudan.html

quote:

---

>It's like a big turkey baster thing. You open the battery cap and suck some
>electrolyte into the hydrometer and squirt it back in when done. It will
>either be made of glass with a floating, weighted indicator inside that is
>marked in Red (low), Yellow (medium), and Green (full charge), or it (newer
>ones) will be made of plastic and is smaller (6 inches maybe) and have four
>colored balls inside--the more balls that float the more charged your
>battery is. You can buy one at just about any auto parts store or place
>that sells batteries for usually less than $10.

quote:

---

> In relation to this discussion I would be interested in some sources of
> 12v appliances.

quote:

---

>
> Of the ones available, which make sense to have over a long term
> outage?

quote:

---

> If would seem that many of them for cooking would be better replaced
> with a wood/charcoal/butane/propane cookstove.

quote:

---

>
> That seems to leave communications, lighting and ventilation.

quote:

---

>
> "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1121217906.758542.137550@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Try any truck stop, or websites associated with truck stops.
>
> Low energy stuff. TV, small fan, lights, cell phone charger. Perhaps a
> coffee pot.

quote:

---

> On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 08:41:34 -0700, "Ulysses"
> <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> Kinda like the thing you check your antifreeze concentration with?
>
> <snip>
>

quote:

---

> -- Christian
>
> Save Darfur -- http://www.savedarfur.org/
> World Vision (Darfur) --
> http://donate.wvus.org/OA_HTML/xxwv...25&item=1072182
> ICC (Sudan) -- http://www.persecution.org/Countries/sudan.html

quote:

---

>Hi all,
>
>I live in rural eastern New Mexico. High winds combined with fragile
>transmission systems create occassional power outages.
>
>I want to put together a simple, inexpensive emergency power supply
>and want some suggestions.
>
>Here's what I have in mind...
>
>12V battery (standard, eventually deep-cycle)
>120V power inverter (I replaced the low-battery buzzer w/ an LED
>light)
>Small 12V solar panel for recharging
>120V Fluorecent light (to provide light w/ minimum power drain)
>Wooden box (to tie everything together)
>
>Anything else I need in the way of gauges (I really don't care if the
>battery goes dead while I'm using it) or regulators? This is going to
>be very light duty.
>
>Maybe there are some websites that could give me some pointers.
>
>Thanks!
>
>-- Christian

quote:

---

>
> "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1121217906.758542.137550@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Try any truck stop, or websites associated with truck stops.

quote:

---

>
> Low energy stuff. TV, small fan, lights, cell phone charger.

quote:

---

> coffee pot.

quote:

---

>
>
> I agree. Every homeowner should have a BBQ with a side burner. It

quote:

---

> power outage cookery a non-event.
>
> Exactly!
>
> Vaughn
>
>