Alternative Power sources - Battery Wisdom Needed

Author

Battery Wisdom Needed

Bob Adkins

2005-07-11, 12:25 pm

I just had a 12v 115ah marine battery go out on me.

It was charged by a 45w solar panel and a Morningstar controller. It's been
great for over 2 years. I have only drained it until the inverter complained
(11v?) 2 or 3 times. I think it had an easy life.

Over time, every time I checked it after having not using it for 2-3 days,
it had ~13.9v.

I recently added water for the first and only time. All cells were equal,
and about 1/8" over the plates. I added RO water just below maximum. Within
a week, my previously clean battery began to spit and stay damp with acid.
After 2-3 weeks, it let me down.

Under a light load this Saturday, it dropped quickly to ~10v. I let it rest,
and voltage was still ~10v. Then I applied a bigger load. I boosted a riding
mower just to see what it would do. After bumping the starter a few times,
it began turning it over vigorously. I checked the voltage again, and it was
12.5v!

Wonder what happened? Does this sound like a cell dropping in and out? I
guess it's a goner, huh?

I went to Sam's Club Sunday and grabbed a pair of cheap 185ah golf cart
batteries. All I have for charging them is a cheapie Sears 10a charger. Is
this good enough for the initial charge? How long should I charge them?
Until they become warm? (I recently broke my hydrometer!) It's interesting
that they had a surprisingly high voltage right out of the store... just
over 7v on each battery. I was expecting 6.2-6.4v tops.

I keep my batteries an a 20x30 metal building, and I'm sure it gets well
over 100F for much of the day. I know heat will shorten battery life, but
will it be a significant amount? I want to build a bench for them, but it
will probably be 5-10F hotter up at waist level. Should I leave them at
floor level?

Sorry for the long post. Any or all answers appreciated!

Thanks,,,

-- Bob

Tim Keating

2005-07-11, 6:25 pm

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 08:25:06 -0500, Bob Adkins <bobad@charter.net>
wrote:

quote:

>
>I just had a 12v 115ah marine battery go out on me.
>
>It was charged by a 45w solar panel and a Morningstar controller. It's been
>great for over 2 years. I have only drained it until the inverter complained
>(11v?) 2 or 3 times. I think it had an easy life.
>
>Over time, every time I checked it after having not using it for 2-3 days,
>it had ~13.9v.
>
>I recently added water for the first and only time. All cells were equal,
>and about 1/8" over the plates. I added RO water just below maximum. Within
>a week, my previously clean battery began to spit and stay damp with acid.

^^^^^^^^ That's your clue..

quote:

>After 2-3 weeks, it let me down.

The typical home based RO process(low pressure) doesn't do a good
job of filtering out many types of chemical ions.. (Sodium, calcium,
magnesium, etc) Their presence will quickly kill a Pb-H2SO4 type
battery,,

Use ONLY distilled water..

SQLit

2005-07-11, 6:25 pm

"Bob Adkins" <bobad@charter.net> wrote in message
news:chq4d1phtv2qs1jds1t6u23q4m1gqd3oaj@4ax.com...

quote:

>
> I just had a 12v 115ah marine battery go out on me.
>
> It was charged by a 45w solar panel and a Morningstar controller. It's

been

quote:

> great for over 2 years. I have only drained it until the inverter

complained

quote:

> (11v?) 2 or 3 times. I think it had an easy life.
>
> Over time, every time I checked it after having not using it for 2-3 days,
> it had ~13.9v.
>
> I recently added water for the first and only time. All cells were equal,
> and about 1/8" over the plates. I added RO water just below maximum.

Within

quote:

> a week, my previously clean battery began to spit and stay damp with acid.
> After 2-3 weeks, it let me down.
>
> Under a light load this Saturday, it dropped quickly to ~10v. I let it

rest,

quote:

> and voltage was still ~10v. Then I applied a bigger load. I boosted a

riding

quote:

> mower just to see what it would do. After bumping the starter a few times,
> it began turning it over vigorously. I checked the voltage again, and it

was

quote:

> 12.5v!
>
> Wonder what happened? Does this sound like a cell dropping in and out? I
> guess it's a goner, huh?
>
>
> I went to Sam's Club Sunday and grabbed a pair of cheap 185ah golf cart
> batteries. All I have for charging them is a cheapie Sears 10a charger. Is
> this good enough for the initial charge? How long should I charge them?
> Until they become warm? (I recently broke my hydrometer!) It's interesting
> that they had a surprisingly high voltage right out of the store... just
> over 7v on each battery. I was expecting 6.2-6.4v tops.
>
> I keep my batteries an a 20x30 metal building, and I'm sure it gets well
> over 100F for much of the day. I know heat will shorten battery life, but
> will it be a significant amount? I want to build a bench for them, but it
> will probably be 5-10F hotter up at waist level. Should I leave them at
> floor level?
>
> Sorry for the long post. Any or all answers appreciated!
>
> Thanks,,,
>
> -- Bob

I could be way off base and usually am.

Light loading on a battery is not a good idea, IMO. When I was taking care
of a battery bank we always discharged it to about 50% of capacity once a
month. I was told that it had something to do with sulfide build up in the
batteries. Once I was told to completely discharge it. Put a load on it
bring it down then do a deep charge.

Bob Adkins

2005-07-12, 6:25 pm

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 11:01:43 -0400, Tim Keating
<NotForJunkEmail@directinternet11.com1> wrote:

quote:

>^^^^^^^^ That's your clue..
>
[vbcol=seagreen]
> The typical home based RO process(low pressure) doesn't do a good
>job of filtering out many types of chemical ions.. (Sodium, calcium,
>magnesium, etc) Their presence will quickly kill a Pb-H2SO4 type
>battery,,
>
> Use ONLY distilled water..

The RO filtering was done in a dialysis clinic. It's run through water
filtering, softening, then a big medical grade RO filter. <shrug>

I have used plain tap water (from the same city water system) and never had
that happen.

The electrolyte level wasn't real low. I only topped it off about 1/8" or a
little more. Maybe 4oz per cell.

I would think this system would produce the next best thing to distilled,
and very close. Maybe I'm way off base on that.

Don't misunderstand. I also suspect the RO water may have had something to
do with it. But what? If the water was that bad, dialysis patients would be
dying like flies.

-- Bob

Bob Adkins

2005-07-12, 6:25 pm

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 09:37:24 -0700, "SQLit" <sqlit@qwest.net> wrote:

quote:

>I could be way off base and usually am.

Yea, me too. You can practically disregard everything I say.

quote:

>Light loading on a battery is not a good idea, IMO. When I was taking care
>of a battery bank we always discharged it to about 50% of capacity once a
>month. I was told that it had something to do with sulfide build up in the
>batteries. Once I was told to completely discharge it. Put a load on it
>bring it down then do a deep charge.

Others say that marine batteries will not last long if run down below 80%
many times. (20% capacity used).

I did use pretty high loads often, but only for short duration. I guess even
an 800w power drill on the inverter could draw some pretty hefty amps...
probably somewhere around 65a.

When I ran high amp tools, the battery would slowly drain to ~11.5v, and
quickly recover to the 12.4v range when the load was removed. To me, that's
a sign of a healthy battery.

Oh well, maybe it was cheaply made and I should feel lucky to get 2.5 years
out of it. <shrug>

Thanks,,,

-- Bob

2005-07-12, 6:25 pm

In article <n6n7d1t0j5fsaccq1c44flabm56dh99eja@4ax.com>,
Bob Adkins <bobad@charter.net> wrote:

quote:

> Don't misunderstand. I also suspect the RO water may have had something to
> do with it. But what? If the water was that bad, dialysis patients would be
> dying like flies.
>
> -- Bob

Not really, Iron in dialysis water wouldn't hurt anyone, but it will
kill a battery in extremely small quantities. Same with disolved Calcium
and a few other such chemicals.

Me

JoeSixPack

2005-07-12, 11:25 pm

"Me" <Me@shadow.orgs> wrote in message
news:Me-66C7A5.11344512072005@netnews.worldnet.att.net...

quote:

> In article <n6n7d1t0j5fsaccq1c44flabm56dh99eja@4ax.com>,
> Bob Adkins <bobad@charter.net> wrote:
>
>
> Not really, Iron in dialysis water wouldn't hurt anyone, but it will
> kill a battery in extremely small quantities. Same with disolved Calcium
> and a few other such chemicals.

LOL

What's bad for a battery has nothing to do with what's bad for you. I'm
surprised that no one cautioned you against using anything but distilled
water.

FYI, too much distilled water can make you ill or even kill you, by
gradually removing electrolytes from your body.

Anthony Matonak

2005-07-12, 11:25 pm

JoeSixPack wrote:
....

quote:

> FYI, too much distilled water can make you ill or even kill you, by
> gradually removing electrolytes from your body.

Even small amounts of any kind of water can kill you if you inhale it.

For what it's worth, I don't believe there is much evidence behind this
"distilled water can kill you" myth. The trace amount of minerals you
get in water is fairly insignificant compared to the amount of minerals
you get in your food. There should be no reason that you should need
additional minerals in your water as long as you are eating, well, food.

Anthony

nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

2005-07-13, 12:25 pm

JoeSixPack <olegp@telus.net> wrote:

quote:

>FYI, too much distilled water can make you ill or even kill you, by
>gradually removing electrolytes from your body.

That might be true, if you at nothing but refined sugar :-)

Nick

Harry Chickpea

2005-07-13, 12:25 pm

"JoeSixPack" <olegp@telus.net> wrote:

quote:

>FYI, too much distilled water can make you ill or even kill you, by
>gradually removing electrolytes from your body.

That, my friend, is a crock. I've been drinking distilled water for
years. IIRC there is one renegade chiropractor or doctor behind this
myth. Most everyone else, including other renegade doctors, just roll
their eyes when someone brings his stuff up.

FYI, a lot of people are forced by local conditions and poverty to
drink rainwater. Rainwater is <gasp!> distilled. In their case, NOT
drinking distilled water is much more likely to kill them, because the
non-existant or unsanitary ground water is the only alternative to it.

Ask yourself how you lose electrolytes. You certainly don't "lose"
them by adding water to your body. You lose them by sweating,
urinating, and defacating. If your source of information is so
concerned, you could suggest to him that he halt those processes and
get back to you in a month. :-)

Nick Hull

2005-07-13, 12:25 pm

In article <9s15d11ntv8tpotbj0r5fqu0j2j5k0aduv@4ax.com>,
Tim Keating <NotForJunkEmail@directinternet11.com1> wrote:

quote:

> Use ONLY distilled water..

How about condensate from an air conditioner?

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/
reply to nickhull99(at)hotmail.com because Earthlink has screwed up my e-mail

Bob Adkins

2005-07-13, 6:25 pm

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 00:52:54 GMT, "JoeSixPack" <olegp@telus.net> wrote:

quote:

>What's bad for a battery has nothing to do with what's bad for you. I'm
>surprised that no one cautioned you against using anything but distilled
>water.

quote:

>FYI, too much distilled water can make you ill or even kill you, by
>gradually removing electrolytes from your body.

Joe,

I know the "experts" and most (but not all) manufacturers recommend
distilled water. I have used plain tap water on marine batteries that lasted
for 4-5 years. Why would a single small drink of RO water kill a battery so
quickly? Maybe it didn't. Maybe it was a cheap battery and it was a
coincidence it died just after I added the water. Maybe the battery is OK,
and just needs "shaking up" a little. I'll soon find out.

I have heard that distilled water is not good for you. I have even heard
that RO water is "hungry", and can leach minerals from bones and teeth. In
my opinion, you would have to drink gallons per day to hurt you. But hey, it
tastes too bad to drink anyway.

Thanks Joe,,,

-- Bob

Anthony Matonak

2005-07-13, 6:25 pm

Nick Hull wrote:

quote:

> Tim Keating <NotForJunkEmail@directinternet11.com1> wrote:
>
>
> How about condensate from an air conditioner?

Air conditioner condensate usually has any amount of dust and dirt
extracted from the air as well as a small amount of metal dissolved
from the equipment itself.

Anthony

Vaughn Simon

2005-07-13, 6:25 pm

"Anthony Matonak" <anthonym40@nothing.like.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:lKadnWa2P6Ue2kjfRVn-ig@comcast.com...

quote:

>
> Air conditioner condensate usually has any amount of dust and dirt
> extracted from the air as well as a small amount of metal dissolved
> from the equipment itself.

As well as alge and an unknown census of other living things.

Vaughn

quote:

>
> Anthony

JoeSixPack

2005-07-13, 6:25 pm

"Harry Chickpea" <hchickpeaREMOVEME@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42d61af5.1027710@localhost...

quote:

> "JoeSixPack" <olegp@telus.net> wrote:
>
>
> That, my friend, is a crock. I've been drinking distilled water for
> years. IIRC there is one renegade chiropractor or doctor behind this
> myth. Most everyone else, including other renegade doctors, just roll
> their eyes when someone brings his stuff up.

You prompted me to do a more extensive search on this question. The split
seems to be about 50/50 between naysayers and those who warn against
drinking distilled water on a long-term basis.

There seem to be a number of studies that suggest you are probably better
off drinking undistilled water because it contains more minerals and
electrolytes. The opposition to this idea seems mostly based on blanket
dismissals and anecdotal evidence.

Gatorade and the whole category of similar sports-drinks are based on
replacing electrolytes lost by perspiration. The science of that suggests
that distilled water would be worse for you.

Until the science is all in, I'd say it's ill-advised to form any firm
conclusions about drinking large quantities of distilled water.

quote:

>
> FYI, a lot of people are forced by local conditions and poverty to
> drink rainwater. Rainwater is <gasp!> distilled. In their case, NOT
> drinking distilled water is much more likely to kill them, because the
> non-existant or unsanitary ground water is the only alternative to it.
>
> Ask yourself how you lose electrolytes. You certainly don't "lose"
> them by adding water to your body. You lose them by sweating,
> urinating, and defacating. If your source of information is so
> concerned, you could suggest to him that he halt those processes and
> get back to you in a month. :-)
>

Harry Chickpea

2005-07-13, 6:25 pm

"JoeSixPack" <olegp@telus.net> wrote:

quote:

>Until the science is all in, I'd say it's ill-advised to form any firm
>conclusions about drinking large quantities of distilled water.

I doubt it will ever be all in. Bottom line is that I and a number of
other people are doin' just fine, thankyewveddymuch, drinking
distilled water regularly, and for extended periods of time. Rumors
of our bones and teeth turning to mush are greatly exaggerated.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest that others don't drink
distilled water, even though I have my doubts about the prudence of
drinking municipal water that is filtered through coal. Coal, IIRC,
contains known carcinogens. The chlorine in water forms questionable
organic/chlorine compounds, and the debate over flouride rages on. I
pop a multi-mineral every once in a while just to be on the safe side,
but all-in-all I don't see drinking distilled as any more dangerous
than drinking tap or filtered water.

Is that anecdotal evidence? I think it may be more empirical evidence
and less vague scare-theories than anecdotal.

daestrom

2005-07-13, 11:25 pm

"JoeSixPack" <olegp@telus.net> wrote in message
news:oqdBe.150317$on1.49884@clgrps13...

quote:

>
> "Harry Chickpea" <hchickpeaREMOVEME@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:42d61af5.1027710@localhost...
>
>
> You prompted me to do a more extensive search on this question. The split
> seems to be about 50/50 between naysayers and those who warn against
> drinking distilled water on a long-term basis.
>
> There seem to be a number of studies that suggest you are probably better
> off drinking undistilled water because it contains more minerals and
> electrolytes. The opposition to this idea seems mostly based on blanket
> dismissals and anecdotal evidence.
>
> Gatorade and the whole category of similar sports-drinks are based on
> replacing electrolytes lost by perspiration. The science of that
> suggests that distilled water would be worse for you.
>
> Until the science is all in, I'd say it's ill-advised to form any firm
> conclusions about drinking large quantities of distilled water.
>

One group that habitually drinks distilled water are navy sailors. All the
freshwater on board ship comes from distilling seawater. Sailors out to see
for months at a time show no ill effects from drinking nothing but distilled
water and coffee made from distilled water. But they also have a balanced
diet of food too.

As far as sports drinks, yes they replace electrolytes that are lost due to
persperation. But you could get the same from drinking distilled water and
taking 'salt' pills (not just sodium chloride, but a mixture of sea-salts).
This was in fact the regimen for working in tropical climates for many
years.

daestrom

daestrom

2005-07-13, 11:25 pm

"Bob Adkins" <bobad@charter.net> wrote in message
news:45dad11b91fgsnlnlca5ritf715d58o18f@4ax.com...

quote:

> On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 00:52:54 GMT, "JoeSixPack" <olegp@telus.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Joe,
>
> I know the "experts" and most (but not all) manufacturers recommend
> distilled water. I have used plain tap water on marine batteries that
> lasted
> for 4-5 years. Why would a single small drink of RO water kill a battery
> so
> quickly? Maybe it didn't. Maybe it was a cheap battery and it was a
> coincidence it died just after I added the water. Maybe the battery is OK,
> and just needs "shaking up" a little. I'll soon find out.
>

Probably a small amount of tap water wouldn't hurt it. But try not to make
a habit of it. 'Softened' water on the other had has many of the minerals
replaced with sodium chloride. And that would be a bad thing to put into
battery acid (releases the chlorine as a gas).

But moving it around can cause a 'sudden' failure. Plate material that was
shed from the surface of the plates can accumulate in the bottom of the cell
in the space below the plates (some 'maintenance free' batteries have a
deeper pocket so they last longer before the build up of shed material
touches/shorts the plates. But shaking it up and moving it around *could*
break off some material and short the cell, or stir up the sediments in the
bottom and cause them to short a cell (or two).

Guess it depends, how 'rough' did you handle it??

daestrom

JoeSixPack

2005-07-14, 4:25 am

"daestrom" <daestrom@NO_SPAM_HEREtwcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ExgBe.31405$e%5.30427@twister.nyroc.rr.com...

quote:

>
> "JoeSixPack" <olegp@telus.net> wrote in message
> news:oqdBe.150317$on1.49884@clgrps13...
>
> One group that habitually drinks distilled water are navy sailors. All
> the freshwater on board ship comes from distilling seawater. Sailors out
> to see for months at a time show no ill effects from drinking nothing but
> distilled water and coffee made from distilled water. But they also have
> a balanced diet of food too.

Another group is the one I met in Montana, who live in an underground
bunker.

JoeSixPack

2005-07-14, 4:25 am

"Harry Chickpea" <hchickpeaREMOVEME@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42d867e0.20721792@localhost...

quote:

> "JoeSixPack" <olegp@telus.net> wrote:
>
>
> I doubt it will ever be all in. Bottom line is that I and a number of
> other people are doin' just fine, thankyewveddymuch, drinking
> distilled water regularly, and for extended periods of time. Rumors
> of our bones and teeth turning to mush are greatly exaggerated.
>
> It doesn't bother me in the slightest that others don't drink
> distilled water, even though I have my doubts about the prudence of
> drinking municipal water that is filtered through coal. Coal, IIRC,
> contains known carcinogens. The chlorine in water forms questionable
> organic/chlorine compounds, and the debate over flouride rages on. I
> pop a multi-mineral every once in a while just to be on the safe side,
> but all-in-all I don't see drinking distilled as any more dangerous
> than drinking tap or filtered water.
>
> Is that anecdotal evidence? I think it may be more empirical evidence
> and less vague scare-theories than anecdotal.

It's easier that way, form your conclusions first, so that no science is
needed.

2005-07-14, 4:25 am

In article <GBZAe.130512$tt5.130215@edtnps90>,
"JoeSixPack" <olegp@telus.net> wrote:

quote:

> FYI, too much distilled water can make you ill or even kill you, by
> gradually removing electrolytes from your body.

Only if you piss.......and only over a fairly long term....

Me

Vaughn

2005-07-14, 12:25 pm

"daestrom" <daestrom@NO_SPAM_HEREtwcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ExgBe.31405$e%5.30427@twister.nyroc.rr.com...

quote:

> One group that habitually drinks distilled water are navy sailors. All the
> freshwater on board ship comes from distilling seawater. Sailors out to see
> for months at a time show no ill effects from drinking nothing but distilled
> water and coffee made from distilled water.

True but... Actually Navy evaps are not perfect and some minerals remain.
I don't know what they do today, but they used to analyze each batch. The
really good stuff was used as fed water for the steam plant, the stuff that
still had too many minerals went into potable water. By the way, salt pills
disappeared from Navy engine rooms decades ago.

Vaughn

Bob Adkins

2005-07-14, 12:25 pm

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 18:53:08 GMT, "JoeSixPack" <olegp@telus.net> wrote:

quote:

>Until the science is all in, I'd say it's ill-advised to form any firm
>conclusions about drinking large quantities of distilled water.

I say both sides are right.

It's a matter of degrees. If you don't get enough Ca, Fe, Mg, etc in your
regular diet, then heavy doses of distilled water could possibly aggravate
the deficiency.

--
Bob

Bob Adkins

2005-07-14, 12:25 pm

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:30:22 GMT, "daestrom"
<daestrom@NO_SPAM_HEREtwcny.rr.com> wrote:

quote:

>Guess it depends, how 'rough' did you handle it??

daestrom,

The battery was never once moved. It sat quietly in my tractor shed for 2.5
years, and the only vibration it got was from micro earth tremors and
thunder.

The "shaking up" I was referring to will be a hotter charge than it is
accustomed to getting. I'm going to zap it when I get a chance.

Remember, I only added electrolyte once, and it was not tap water. I added a
small amount of RO water to each cell. I believe RO filtering removes just
about everything with a molecule size larger than water (including
chlorine), so the water could not have been that poisonous could it?

The worst conditions it was subjected to was 100F+ heat and low charge rate.
Maybe it was just a cheaply-made battery and it was time to fail.

Thanks,,,
--
Bob

daestrom

2005-07-14, 11:25 pm

"Vaughn" <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.fake.net> wrote in message
news:mUqBe.419667$cg1.106714@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

quote:

>
> "daestrom" <daestrom@NO_SPAM_HEREtwcny.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:ExgBe.31405$e%5.30427@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
> True but... Actually Navy evaps are not perfect and some minerals
> remain. I don't know what they do today, but they used to analyze each
> batch. The really good stuff was used as fed water for the steam plant,
> the stuff that still had too many minerals went into potable water. By
> the way, salt pills disappeared from Navy engine rooms decades ago.
>

Most navy evaporators get it down to under 2 micromhos/cm^2. That's
probably better than most 'distilled water' you can buy. To make 'potable'
you had to be sure the cross-over temperature was at least 160F to kill the
'kritters'. For feed water, it was then passed through demineralizers to
get it down to < 0.5 micromhos/cm^2.

Typically, the outlet went through a 3-way 'dump' valve that would trip if
the conductivity got too high (2.3 was a common number as I recall).
Compared to most municipal water systems where conductivity is in the 1000's
of micromhos/cm^2.

The exact conductivity from an evaporator depended a bit on how clean it was
and the skill of the operator. (and to some extent the sea state while
running it).

daestrom

Vaughn

2005-07-14, 11:25 pm

"daestrom" <daestrom@NO_SPAM_HEREtwcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:lSCBe.31629$e%5.26378@twister.nyroc.rr.com...

quote:

>
> "Vaughn" <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.fake.net> wrote in message
> news:mUqBe.419667$cg1.106714@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Most navy evaporators get it down to under 2 micromhos/cm^2. That's probably
> better than most 'distilled water' you can buy. To make 'potable' you had to
> be sure the cross-over temperature was at least 160F to kill the 'kritters'.
> For feed water, it was then passed through demineralizers to get it down to <
> 0.5 micromhos/cm^2.
>
> Typically, the outlet went through a 3-way 'dump' valve that would trip if the
> conductivity got too high (2.3 was a common number as I recall). Compared to
> most municipal water systems where conductivity is in the 1000's of
> micromhos/cm^2.
>
> The exact conductivity from an evaporator depended a bit on how clean it was
> and the skill of the operator. (and to some extent the sea state while running
> it).

Thanks for the info. But I can tell you for a fact that some of the water
I drank aboard did not taste anything like bottled distilled water. Used to
make some good tea from the basket drain water though!

Vaughn (Ex-SSBN guy)

rick

2005-07-15, 4:25 am

X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 25
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 01:19:29 -0400
NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.10.137.20
X-Complaints-To: abuse@cox.net
X-Trace: lakeread05 1121404750 68.10.137.20 (Fri, 15 Jul 2005 01:19:10 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 01:19:10 EDT
Organization: Cox Communications
Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.energy.homepower:112907

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 18:37:57 GMT, "Vaughn Simon"
<vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.net> wrote:

quote:

>
>"Anthony Matonak" <anthonym40@nothing.like.comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:lKadnWa2P6Ue2kjfRVn-ig@comcast.com...
>
> As well as alge and an unknown census of other living things.

damn good for tomato plants though :-)

quote:

>
>Vaughn
>
>
>

Rick

nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca

2005-07-16, 12:25 pm

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 07:43:22 -0500, Bob Adkins <bobad@charter.net>
wrote:

quote:

>On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:30:22 GMT, "daestrom"
><daestrom@NO_SPAM_HEREtwcny.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>daestrom,
>
>The battery was never once moved. It sat quietly in my tractor shed for 2.5
>years, and the only vibration it got was from micro earth tremors and
>thunder.
>
>The "shaking up" I was referring to will be a hotter charge than it is
>accustomed to getting. I'm going to zap it when I get a chance.
>
>Remember, I only added electrolyte once, and it was not tap water. I added a
>small amount of RO water to each cell. I believe RO filtering removes just
>about everything with a molecule size larger than water (including
>chlorine), so the water could not have been that poisonous could it?
>
>The worst conditions it was subjected to was 100F+ heat and low charge rate.
>Maybe it was just a cheaply-made battery and it was time to fail.
>

Or possibly it sat at a low state of charge too long. Or possibly
there IS something to the "old wive's tale" about leaving a battery
sit on the ground. I have personally lost more batteries just" sitting
around" on the ground than on shelves or in vehicles - but that
doesn't proove anything.

quote:

>
>Thanks,,,

William P. N. Smith

2005-07-16, 6:25 pm

nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca wrote:

quote:

>Or possibly it sat at a low state of charge too long. Or possibly
>there IS something to the "old wive's tale" about leaving a battery
>sit on the ground.

There is at least one plausible mechanism by which batteries can
self-discharge faster when sitting on the ground or on concrete. If
daily air temperature fluctuations cause the top and bottom of the
battery to be at different temperatures, the deltaT across the battery
will set up a deltaV, which will cause current flow within a cell,
discharging it (faster than it would have).

Bob Adkins

2005-07-17, 4:25 am

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 10:09:33 -0400, nospam.clare.nce@sny.der.on.ca wrote:

quote:

>Or possibly it sat at a low state of charge too long. Or possibly
>there IS something to the "old wive's tale" about leaving a battery
>sit on the ground. I have personally lost more batteries just" sitting
>around" on the ground than on shelves or in vehicles - but that
>doesn't proove anything.

I checked it out yesterday. I put it on a charger, and it drew only 3 or 4
amps. I left it on overnight, and this morning, it was drawing 15 amps! It
was hot as a firecracker! Still checked only 10.5v.

It appears it has a shorted cell, which is something I associate with being
subjected to rough use and vibration.
--
Bob

Ptaylor

2005-07-19, 12:25 pm

SQLit wrote:

quote:

> "Bob Adkins" <bobad@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:chq4d1phtv2qs1jds1t6u23q4m1gqd3oaj@4ax.com...
>
>
> been
>
>
> complained
>
>
> Within
>
>
> rest,
>
>
> riding
>
>
> was
>
>
>
> I could be way off base and usually am.
>
> Light loading on a battery is not a good idea, IMO. When I was taking care
> of a battery bank we always discharged it to about 50% of capacity once a
> month. I was told that it had something to do with sulfide build up in the
> batteries. Once I was told to completely discharge it. Put a load on it
> bring it down then do a deep charge.
>
>

I've noticed that..
I assume it's from sulfate build up or whatever on the plates from
sitting unused (or barely used).
Sometimes cycling them will help. (load for a little bit,then
charge,maybe repeat if needed.)
I once fiddled with a battery that had been sitting,with a couple car
hadlights as a load.They were kinda dim at first,and slowly got a bit
brighter..(presumably as the sulfate stuff dissolved) after I 'cycled'
the battery a couple times it seemed "good as new".. *shrug*

Herb

2005-07-24, 9:05 pm

> Probably a small amount of tap water wouldn't hurt it. But try not
> to make a habit of it. 'Softened' water on the other had has many of
> the minerals replaced with sodium chloride. And that would be a bad
> thing to put into battery acid (releases the chlorine as a gas).

Actually, the chloride in the softener salt just goes through the
softener during the regeneration cycle. The resin releases calcium and
magnesium in exchange for sodium but has no affinity for the chloride,
so it doesn't come out of the machine in the softened water. Bottom
line, adding softened water to your battery shouldn't cause chlorine
gas to evolve unless there's something seriously wrong with your
softener. Just my two cents worth. Herb

Herb

2005-07-24, 9:05 pm

User-Agent: XanaNews/1.17.5.7
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <%glDe.16317$2h1.1036@trnddc05>
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 05:27:23 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 4.155.132.58
X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net
X-Trace: trnddc05 1121837243 4.155.132.58 (Wed, 20 Jul 2005 01:27:23 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 01:27:23 EDT
Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.energy.homepower:113099

> Thanks for the info. But I can tell you for a fact that some of
> the water I drank aboard did not taste anything like bottled
> distilled water. Used to make some good tea from the basket drain
> water though!
>
> Vaughn (Ex-SSBN guy)

They cleaned the potable tanks on my boat once, water tasted horrible
until all the growies reestablished inside the potty tank. Did you
ever wonder why we drank water out of a potty tank and the heads
drained to a sanitary tank??
Herb

Herb

2005-07-24, 9:05 pm

Vaughn wrote:

>
> "daestrom" <daestrom@NO_SPAM_HEREtwcny.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:ExgBe.31405$e%5.30427@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
> True but... Actually Navy evaps are not perfect and some minerals
> remain. I don't know what they do today, but they used to analyze
> each batch. The really good stuff was used as fed water for the
> steam plant, the stuff that still had too many minerals went into
> potable water. By the way, salt pills disappeared from Navy engine
> rooms decades ago.
>
> Vaughn

They're actually switching over to RO systems for their primary source
of water with the evaporator as a backup. Supposedly the RO systems
are much more efficient, and easier to use. It was always funny to see
the 4K troll doing the dance with the still on Sundays, and the
mechanics shaking the chicken bones whenever they had to do a
performance test on it. They still have to test each batch every so
often as it's being made, and it's moniterred continuously by salinity
cells that will trip the output if it goes bad.
Herb

Bob Adkins

2005-07-24, 9:05 pm

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 03:36:12 -0700, Ptaylor <Ptaylor@nospam.qwest.net>
wrote:

>I've noticed that..
>I assume it's from sulfate build up or whatever on the plates from
>sitting unused (or barely used).
>Sometimes cycling them will help. (load for a little bit,then
>charge,maybe repeat if needed.)
>I once fiddled with a battery that had been sitting,with a couple car
>hadlights as a load.They were kinda dim at first,and slowly got a bit
>brighter..(presumably as the sulfate stuff dissolved) after I 'cycled'
>the battery a couple times it seemed "good as new".. *shrug*

The battery went into a death spiral. It's a goner.

I did use this battery 3-4 times per week to run a 2hp air compressor and a
few other electric tools. So it did get pretty regular use. It was never
deeply discharged, however, and that's not a bad thing for a LA battery.
--
Bob

LinkBot