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Home > Archive > Alternative Power sources > July 2005 > Syphoning Gas for Generators
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Syphoning Gas for Generators
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| Lou (ping me for real address) 2005-07-18, 4:25 am |
| Hey People,
Sorry for this stupid question, but I can't find any online or local
answers. We live in Orlando, and bought a Troy-Bilt (gasoline)
generator for this hurricane season. So I told my wife, we don't need
to buy 2 of those big 30-40 gallon marine gasoline talks to cover the
10 gallons/day that the manufacturer says we need - no, we have a 1999
Mazda and a 2002 Explorer and if we keep them topped up, we have 37
gallons of reserve, I'll just siphon. Sooooooooooo, I bought a siphon
thing, and tried to fill my 2 - 5 gallon jugs and I just can't get the
hose deep enough. Now before I admit this to my wife ( yes, she'll
certainly understand the hose deepness problem  ) am I missing
something? I used to get a mouthful of gas every time I siphoned when
I was a kid. Are the newer cars built to prevent siphoning???? Any
input would be greatly appreciated since those marine tanks are pretty
pricey.
Thanks in advance,
Lou in Orlando
Please ping me for my real address. I'm sick of SPAM.
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| Vaughn 2005-07-18, 12:25 pm |
|
"Lou (ping me for real address)" <lowwlife@seaboard.com> wrote in message
news:s5imd1dfnbr1d9qagskgcvnj17d2amjkk1@4ax.com...
quote:
> Now before I admit this to my wife ( yes, she'll
> certainly understand the hose deepness problem )
Darn! You beat me to the joke.
quote:
>am I missing
> something? I used to get a mouthful of gas every time I siphoned when
> I was a kid. Are the newer cars built to prevent siphoning????
Yes. You may be able to get the first few gallons if the tank is topped
off, but that is all. Some, perhaps all, fuel injected cars have a test port
that is used to measure fuel pressure. If you could get the right fitting, you
could possible connect a hose to that port, turn on the ignition of the vehicle,
and get a slow flow of fuel.
Vaughn
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| George Ghio 2005-07-18, 12:25 pm |
|
Lou (ping me for real address) wrote:
quote:
> Hey People,
> Sorry for this stupid question, but I can't find any online or local
> answers. We live in Orlando, and bought a Troy-Bilt (gasoline)
> generator for this hurricane season. So I told my wife, we don't need
> to buy 2 of those big 30-40 gallon marine gasoline talks to cover the
> 10 gallons/day that the manufacturer says we need - no, we have a 1999
> Mazda and a 2002 Explorer and if we keep them topped up, we have 37
> gallons of reserve, I'll just siphon. Sooooooooooo, I bought a siphon
> thing, and tried to fill my 2 - 5 gallon jugs and I just can't get the
> hose deep enough. Now before I admit this to my wife ( yes, she'll
> certainly understand the hose deepness problem ) am I missing
> something? I used to get a mouthful of gas every time I siphoned when
> I was a kid. Are the newer cars built to prevent siphoning???? Any
> input would be greatly appreciated since those marine tanks are pretty
> pricey.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Lou in Orlando
> Please ping me for my real address. I'm sick of SPAM.
Yes. Quite often.
I had a friend years ago who replaced the drain plug in the bottom of
the tank with a fitting & electric fuel pump + valve & hose for doing
what you want.
Don't know about new car's tanks. Then again many new cars have electric
fuel pumps fitted in the tank.
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| Dave Hinz 2005-07-18, 12:25 pm |
| On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 10:13:37 GMT, Vaughn <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.fake.net> wrote:
quote:
>
> Some, perhaps all, fuel injected cars have a test port
> that is used to measure fuel pressure. If you could get the right fitting, you
> could possible connect a hose to that port, turn on the ignition of the vehicle,
> and get a slow flow of fuel.
Slow is right. If you're going to run the vehicle that long, then you
might as well get an invertor or alternator to run off of it.
| |
| wmbjk 2005-07-18, 12:25 pm |
| On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 06:28:52 GMT, "Lou (ping me for real address)"
<lowwlife@seaboard.com> wrote:
quote:
>Hey People,
>Sorry for this stupid question, but I can't find any online or local
>answers. We live in Orlando, and bought a Troy-Bilt (gasoline)
>generator for this hurricane season. So I told my wife, we don't need
>to buy 2 of those big 30-40 gallon marine gasoline talks to cover the
>10 gallons/day that the manufacturer says we need - no, we have a 1999
>Mazda and a 2002 Explorer and if we keep them topped up, we have 37
>gallons of reserve, I'll just siphon. Sooooooooooo, I bought a siphon
>thing, and tried to fill my 2 - 5 gallon jugs and I just can't get the
>hose deep enough. Now before I admit this to my wife ( yes, she'll
>certainly understand the hose deepness problem ) am I missing
>something? I used to get a mouthful of gas every time I siphoned when
>I was a kid. Are the newer cars built to prevent siphoning???? Any
>input would be greatly appreciated since those marine tanks are pretty
>pricey.
The filler tube is probably horizontal, so your siphon tube would need
to be flexible and weighted if it's to drop to the bottom of the tank.
You might want to assess the layout of the tank components, and make
sure that poking around inside can't cause the wires or filter sock to
be knocked off the fuel pump.
Wayne
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| Richard W. 2005-07-18, 6:25 pm |
|
"Lou (ping me for real address)" <lowwlife@seaboard.com> wrote in message
news:s5imd1dfnbr1d9qagskgcvnj17d2amjkk1@4ax.com...
quote:
> Hey People,
> Sorry for this stupid question, but I can't find any online or local
> answers. We live in Orlando, and bought a Troy-Bilt (gasoline)
> generator for this hurricane season. So I told my wife, we don't need
> to buy 2 of those big 30-40 gallon marine gasoline talks to cover the
> 10 gallons/day that the manufacturer says we need - no, we have a 1999
> Mazda and a 2002 Explorer and if we keep them topped up, we have 37
> gallons of reserve, I'll just siphon. Sooooooooooo, I bought a siphon
> thing, and tried to fill my 2 - 5 gallon jugs and I just can't get the
> hose deep enough. I used to get a mouthful of gas every time I siphoned
when
quote:
> I was a kid. Are the newer cars built to prevent siphoning????
My understanding the new cars have a roll over valve in the fuel neck. This
prevents you from siphoning fuel from the tank. I know it works fine on my
65 Ford pickup, but not on the newer cars that I have.
| |
| Vaughn Simon 2005-07-18, 6:25 pm |
|
"Dave Hinz" <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:3k1r00Fsbc79U1@individual.net...
quote:
> On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 10:13:37 GMT, Vaughn
<vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.fake.net> wrote:
quote:
fitting, you[vbcol=seagreen]
vehicle,[vbcol=seagreen]
>
> Slow is right. If you're going to run the vehicle that long, then you
> might as well get an invertor or alternator to run off of it.
No need to run the vehicle, I think that engine driven fuel pumps are a
thing of the past. You should just need to turn on the ignition for a few
(I don't know how few/many) minutes.
Vaughn
quote:
>
>
| |
| Dave Hinz 2005-07-18, 6:25 pm |
| On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 17:36:29 GMT, Vaughn Simon <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.net> wrote:
quote:
>
> "Dave Hinz" <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote in message
> news:3k1r00Fsbc79U1@individual.net...
quote:
[vbcol=seagreen]
> No need to run the vehicle, I think that engine driven fuel pumps are a
> thing of the past. You should just need to turn on the ignition for a few
> (I don't know how few/many) minutes.
Um, I don't think so. Since at least the mid-1970s, some makers have
had a cutoff on the fuel pump that, if the engine isn't running, the
pump won't run. It's a safety feature to prevent the fuel pump from
staying on after the engine dies, as in a collision. I'd be shocked if
Saab was the only maker doing this.
Dave Hinz
| |
| Vaughn Simon 2005-07-18, 6:25 pm |
|
"Dave Hinz" <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:3k2cnrFs9fuvU1@individual.net...
quote:
> On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 17:36:29 GMT, Vaughn Simon
<vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.net> wrote:
quote:
> Um, I don't think so. Since at least the mid-1970s, some makers have
> had a cutoff on the fuel pump that, if the engine isn't running, the
> pump won't run. It's a safety feature to prevent the fuel pump from
> staying on after the engine dies, as in a collision. I'd be shocked if
> Saab was the only maker doing this.
Yep, that makes sense. If that is true, there must be a timer to allow
the pump to run long enough to start the engine, but that could easily be a
function of the computer. I do know that some manufacturers have used
rollover switches to shut off the fuel pump in case of accident, but a few
lines of software in the engine control computer would be far cheaper.
Vaughn
| |
| Dave Hinz 2005-07-18, 6:25 pm |
| On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 19:34:52 GMT, Vaughn Simon <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.net> wrote:
quote:
>
> "Dave Hinz" <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote in message
> news:3k2cnrFs9fuvU1@individual.net...
>
> Yep, that makes sense. If that is true, there must be a timer to allow
> the pump to run long enough to start the engine, but that could easily be a
> function of the computer.
Right. Back in the early days, it was the classic time-delay relay.
Power on to the car, pump runs for 5 seconds, no more pulses to keep
relay activated, it drops. As long as the engine turns, it gets pulses
to keep it on.
quote:
> I do know that some manufacturers have used
> rollover switches to shut off the fuel pump in case of accident, but a few
> lines of software in the engine control computer would be far cheaper.
Hardware, baby... I wouldn't trust something like this to an embedded
Windows CE system...
| |
| Kiwi John 2005-07-18, 11:25 pm |
| all new cars have anti syphon devices
you could always get an old electric fuel pump put it as an off shoot of the
line that way you dont have to interfear with the electrics and can run it
from a 12 volt power pack
"Richard W." <raweich@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:wpSdnTr3isWbSEbfRVn-pg@scnresearch.com...
quote:
>
> "Lou (ping me for real address)" <lowwlife@seaboard.com> wrote in message
> news:s5imd1dfnbr1d9qagskgcvnj17d2amjkk1@4ax.com...
> when
>
> My understanding the new cars have a roll over valve in the fuel neck.
> This
> prevents you from siphoning fuel from the tank. I know it works fine on my
> 65 Ford pickup, but not on the newer cars that I have.
>
>
| |
|
| Go to the lowest point on the fuel line. Install a T fitting with a
valve on the third side. Rig the outlet to accept a1/4 inch line. Get
the right length of line and install a hand siphoning bulb or a small
electric fuel pump with clip leads to the battery in the line. Hook it
up and open the valve, this will prime it. then work the pump and you
get gas. This is simple and not very expensive. I have done this on my
Jeep and it worls fine.
| |
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| On 18 Jul 2005 14:00:33 GMT, Dave Hinz <DaveHinz@spamcop.net> wrote:
quote:
>On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 10:13:37 GMT, Vaughn <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.fake.net> wrote:
>
>Slow is right. If you're going to run the vehicle that long, then you
>might as well get an invertor or alternator to run off of it.
>
let a country boy tell you how its done. (been there smoked that)
materials needed
1 cigarette lighter
1 length of 12 of 13 awg line.
1 electric fule pump (easily picked up at any auto parts for around 40
USD.
enough hose to make the connection between your victims tank and
yours.
The rest is not rocket science. but can be one hell of a practical
joke.
Rick
Rick
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| Spanky 2005-07-19, 12:25 pm |
| Lou (ping me for real address) wrote:
quote:
> Hey People,
> Sorry for this stupid question, but I can't find any online or local
> answers. We live in Orlando, and bought a Troy-Bilt (gasoline)
> generator for this hurricane season. So I told my wife, we don't need
> to buy 2 of those big 30-40 gallon marine gasoline talks to cover the
> 10 gallons/day that the manufacturer says we need - no, we have a 1999
> Mazda and a 2002 Explorer and if we keep them topped up, we have 37
> gallons of reserve, I'll just siphon. Sooooooooooo, I bought a siphon
> thing, and tried to fill my 2 - 5 gallon jugs and I just can't get the
> hose deep enough.
Similar, in mowing 4-5 acres a few mower fill-ups are required.
Gasoline and a hot motor is a good way to get your chicken extra crispy.
Appears that you just are in mind for a short term temporary fuel storage
solution. The vehicle fuel tanks being top of list have for you, as for me,
not fulfilled the simplicity of the male thought process. My 79 Chevy truck
with twin tanks also balks at having its gas hole poked.Seems that all with
a nice set of twins get a bit fussy when the ol male with hose in hand is
seeking action out of the ordinary. Five gallon plastic fuel containers are
plentiful and cheap. Until I scrounged up an above ground 50 gallon fuel
tank I used the five gallon tanks to transport the fuel home. From these
containers, as the need arose I would transfer fuel into a smaller container
(two gallon) from which the actual refilling of the mower took place. Why
the transfer? gas is cheap, containers of those sizes are cheap, and come to
think of it I am cheap, naw the bride must of been talking 'bout the
neighbor, plus lifting 30 lbs of flammable liquid together with the precise
motor control required not to spill the fuel all over the hot mower engine
is just a bit over my abilities. Now a two gallon container, weighing not
much more than a good twelve pack, never a wasted drop does the pour make.
Anyway with the sleepy attempt at humor aside the point is gas is
unforgiving in its desire to crispy critter all within its range. The
consequences that can occur from a hot engine and spilt gas marriage can far
exceed the cost of a few plastic containers. The tapping into the vehicle
fuel line is possible, most common auto manuals will list which circuit
needs to be jumped to enable the fuel pump to run (external energizing the
fuel pump relay) but just a minor ..Yup! that be good enough to do.... will
drip fuel and at 2.57 a gallon the avoidance of this seems prudent. Even the
best of the wire pokers have had the OOPS occur, as a wire buried in some
loom goes up in smoke when B+ is applied.
So if you need 3 days fuel storage, get 6 of the 5 gallon containers, 1 two
gallon container, a funnel and a bag of kitty litter for the spills. Never
transfer fuel in a garage that has any open flame (gas water heater etc) and
never refill a running motor. Although I do it all the time smoking and
pouring gas is a bit down on the scale of smarts, must be a guy thing.
Just a bit of wordiness advice from one who has had the pleasure of awaiting
the re-growth of eyebrows and good chunk of top hair..
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| Lou (ping me for real address) 2005-07-19, 6:25 pm |
| On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 07:14:46 -0700, "Spanky" <No.way.com> wrote:
quote:
>Lou (ping me for real address) wrote:
>
>
>
Thanks for all the suggestions, guys (gals?) Seems I'm faced with
modifying both cars, or buying many small tanks, or buying the large
marine ones? And to think my father-in-law in NY just had a 55 gallon
gasoline-rated tank hauled away. Last year, each hurricane caused
4-10 day outages. Since money was an issue, I got the Troy-Bilt,
realizing I should really do it right and buy a diesel with an
appropriate tank. I'm leaning to just buying 10 or 15 5-gallon gas
jugs, and storing them in my shed (not attached to the house.) The
safety advice of using a small container to fill the top-loaded gen
tank is appreciated. But you fuel line modifiers got my testosterone
flowing
Thanks again for all the suggestions,
Lou
Please ping me for my real address. I'm sick of SPAM.
| |
| William P. N. Smith 2005-07-19, 11:25 pm |
| "Lou (ping me for real address)" <lowwlife@seaboard.com> wrote:
quote:
>I'm leaning to just buying 10 or 15 5-gallon gas
>jugs, and storing them in my shed (not attached to the house.)
Gasoline or diesel? [Check your local codes, yaddah, yaddah, yaddah.]
Cheaper Than Dirt has some Nato surplus jerry cans for pretty cheap,
but get the (horrible quality) spouts from them (or use a funnel), as
the spouts are non-standard size (or are they, no-one seems to know).
Rotate your stock!
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| Richard W. 2005-07-24, 9:05 pm |
|
"Lou (ping me for real address)" <lowwlife@seaboard.com> wrote in message
news:eagqd1dk4npult7hvpl5qvodl0agbe1i8o@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 07:14:46 -0700, "Spanky" <No.way.com> wrote:
>
> But you fuel line modifiers got my testosterone
> flowing
You have to be careful with that. The fuel injection systems on some cars
are 70 PSI. At least on one I had. I think most are in the 25 to 30 pound
range. They have special flex lines for high pressure systems, along with
special fittings. So you can't just go cutting and splicing, unless you give
some thought on safety.
Have you thought about 2 generators? 1 big one for the heavy loads like
water pumping and a little one for lights and a TV. In this way the big one
may be only used 2 to 3 hours a day, while the small one may handle
everything else. You can really stretch out your fuel this way.
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| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2005-07-24, 9:05 pm |
| I've been using a 6.5 gallon blue plastic container intended for water
for Diesel fuel, and I've just noticed that the Diesel fuel seems to be
exuding through the plastic walls, collecting a greasy layer of dirt
all over the outside. Yuck.
Nick
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