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Home > Archive > Alternative Power sources > August 2005 > Pond As Thermal Sink
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Pond As Thermal Sink
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| Bob Adkins 2005-08-04, 12:21 pm |
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I am building a 400'x150' pond, averaging 6' deep.
I am considering using it for a heating/cooling source for a 3 ton heat
pump.
I am thinking I can just lay the tubing on the pond bottom and flood it.
Silt will surely cover it within a few weeks, and prevent fish hook
snagging.
Approximately what size and how long would the heat exchange pipe need to
be?
Since the pond is for sport fish and fishing, I don't want to heat it
excessively in the summer. I don't think winters in Louisiana are cold
enough to be a factor in winter.
Based on an 8 acre-feet mass of water, what kind of temperature rise could I
expect with a small 3 ton heat pump?
Does this sound like it would get me a reasonably quick payback for
equipment and pipe?
Thanks,,,
--
Bob
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| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2005-08-04, 3:21 pm |
| Bob Adkins <bobad@charter.net> wrote:
>I am building a 400'x150' pond, averaging 6' deep.
Wow.
>I am considering using it for a heating/cooling source for a 3 ton heat pump.
....36000 Btu/h with a 10 F dT is 3600 Btu/h-F, ie about 8 gpm.
>I am thinking I can just lay the tubing on the pond bottom and flood it.
>Silt will surely cover it within a few weeks, and prevent fish hook
>snagging.
>
>Approximately what size and how long would the heat exchange pipe need to be?
With a 10 F dT across the pipe and a 10 Btu/h-F-ft^2 silt-covered pipe wall
conductance, you might want about 360 ft^2, eg 1800 feet of 3/4" PE pipe.
Keeping the pipe up out of the silt and spacing the turns apart seems like
a good idea.
Nick
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| JoeSixPack 2005-08-04, 9:21 pm |
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"Bob Adkins" <bobad@charter.net> wrote in message
news:8e84f1trbfhtoc3je0mlok0im8nmtkp8dj@4ax.com...
>
>
> I am building a 400'x150' pond, averaging 6' deep.
>
> I am considering using it for a heating/cooling source for a 3 ton heat
> pump.
>
> I am thinking I can just lay the tubing on the pond bottom and flood it.
> Silt will surely cover it within a few weeks, and prevent fish hook
> snagging.
>
> Approximately what size and how long would the heat exchange pipe need to
> be?
>
> Since the pond is for sport fish and fishing, I don't want to heat it
> excessively in the summer. I don't think winters in Louisiana are cold
> enough to be a factor in winter.
>
> Based on an 8 acre-feet mass of water, what kind of temperature rise could
> I
> expect with a small 3 ton heat pump?
>
> Does this sound like it would get me a reasonably quick payback for
> equipment and pipe?
The physics is all wrong for using a pond for heating. Heat rises and exits
the top of the pond in the winter. You need some sort of insulation above
the pipes, so burying it in the ground might be a better idea.
For cooling, it's a much better idea. Cool water tends to stay on the bottom
of a body of water.
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| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2005-08-05, 10:21 am |
| JoeSixPack <olegp@telus.net> wrote:
>The physics is all wrong for using a pond for heating...
Waterfurnace has a nice 8-page ap note (WF390) about this.
Empty pipe coils weighted with concrete blocks are floated out into a pond
and sink when the pipe fills. Cheap and easy, compared to trenches and wells.
They recommend 300' of 3/4" pipe and 3K ft^2 of 6-8' deep pond surface per ton.
The biggest problem is that ponds naturally shrink in summertime.
Nick
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| Gene S. Berkowitz 2005-08-06, 2:21 am |
| In article <45yIe.169964$9A2.59994@edtnps89>, olegp@telus.net says...
>
> "Bob Adkins" <bobad@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:8e84f1trbfhtoc3je0mlok0im8nmtkp8dj@4ax.com...
>
>
> The physics is all wrong for using a pond for heating. Heat rises and exits
> the top of the pond in the winter. You need some sort of insulation above
> the pipes, so burying it in the ground might be a better idea.
>
> For cooling, it's a much better idea. Cool water tends to stay on the bottom
> of a body of water.
That's why solar ponds use layers of different concentrations of brine.
The thermoclines defeat the convection, trapping heat at the bottom.
http://www.eere.energy.gov/consumer...sheets/aa8.html
--Gene
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| phlegmatico@yahoo.com 2005-08-07, 2:21 am |
| > I am building a 400'x150' pond, averaging 6' deep.
projects that big usually have a profit-motive. As in, something
harvestable-&-sellable is gonna grow in it.... catfish? trout?
> I am considering using it for a heating/cooling source for a 3 ton heat
> pump.
I'd check the temperature sensitivity of the livestock first. Could
affect health or growth rates?
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| Bob Adkins 2005-08-10, 12:21 pm |
| On 6 Aug 2005 22:01:14 -0700, phlegmatico@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
> projects that big usually have a profit-motive. As in, something
>harvestable-&-sellable is gonna grow in it.... catfish? trout?
It's just a small recreational fishing pond. Strictly for sport fishing, no
catfish allowed. Trout are OK, but will not breed in warm water.
I will consider some alternative power solutions in the future.
*A windmill powered shallow well to keep it full of water.
*Solar and/or wind powered aeration to keep the water oxygenated.
*Small solar lights around the banks for night fishing and midnight strolls.
--
Bob
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| daestrom 2005-08-10, 6:21 pm |
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"Bob Adkins" <bobad@charter.net> wrote in message
news:c63kf1ppak8pbulg602pf4jt31la8diqin@4ax.com...
> On 6 Aug 2005 22:01:14 -0700, phlegmatico@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
> It's just a small recreational fishing pond. Strictly for sport fishing,
> no
> catfish allowed. Trout are OK, but will not breed in warm water.
>
> I will consider some alternative power solutions in the future.
>
> *A windmill powered shallow well to keep it full of water.
>
> *Solar and/or wind powered aeration to keep the water oxygenated.
>
Maybe you could combine those two into one design. Something like a
windmill pump that draws water from the pond, and uses it in an eductor to
draw water from the well. Then the outlet to some sort of 'artistic
fountain'. Could be kind of neat ;-)
daestrom
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| Bob Adkins 2005-08-12, 12:21 pm |
| On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:18:33 GMT, "daestrom"
<daestrom@NO_SPAM_HEREtwcny.rr.com> wrote:
>Maybe you could combine those two into one design. Something like a
>windmill pump that draws water from the pond, and uses it in an eductor to
>draw water from the well. Then the outlet to some sort of 'artistic
>fountain'. Could be kind of neat ;-)
Yes, just make a high waterfall that falls in a fine spray. That could kill
2 birds with 1 stone. Only problem is evaporation, but it's not a big
problem.
--
Bob
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| On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 09:40:17 -0500, Bob Adkins <bobad@charter.net>
wrote:
>On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 20:18:33 GMT, "daestrom"
><daestrom@NO_SPAM_HEREtwcny.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>Yes, just make a high waterfall that falls in a fine spray. That could kill
>2 birds with 1 stone. Only problem is evaporation, but it's not a big
>problem.
My wife would love for me to put together something like that
Rick
Rick
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| Solar Flare 2005-08-15, 7:21 pm |
| How many times though?
Get it in writing!
"rick" <me@me.com> wrote in message
news:6o6qf11kprbjaibjtidd2ehfa8k5phij6u@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 09:40:17 -0500, Bob Adkins <bobad@charter.net>
> My wife would love for me to put together something like that
>
> Rick
> Rick
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| ..
>How many times though?
>
Once would beat your average.
And NO..Mrs Palmer and her Five Daughters do NOT
count as conquests Mr --- GimmeButt /Pizza Girl/
Piezo Guru /JP Bentass Bengi
fuggit
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