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Home > Archive > Alternative Power sources > August 2005 > wind turbine floor heating
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wind turbine floor heating
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| no one important 2005-08-06, 2:21 pm |
| I have now completed installing my tile floors with in floor electrical
heating.
Theese are the resistive type heaters controlled by a t-stat.
Five zones in all
3 amps
3 amps
4 amps
5 amps
5 amps
at 120 Vac total 20 amps.
I am not allowed by municipal bylaw to install a wind turbine where I
live.
But I am going to do it anyway. We get these hellish east wind storms
two or three times a season in the winter.
The way my house sits I am protected from the prevailing west winds but
when it comes in from the east let me tell ya!!! I am thinking about
putting my turbines in between my house and next door house to capture
this brutal cold wind (where the wind is funneled) I dont think turbine
noise will bother the neighbour becasue she has no windows there and
when its blowing from the east everybody closes the windows anyway
Here is the question.
The t-stats run off 120 Vac and are adjustable by a ref # from 0-12
I was thinking of using relays on the output side to dual power the
floor elements. That part is easy for me to wire. When there is wind and
the turbines are making power the relay will overide the grid power to
the floor elements. The more wind the more power the more cold it is
outside the more heat needed inside simple.
The problem is what size in watts and voltage should I be looking at for
a turbine to power say one of the 3 amp zone without converting the Dc
turbine to Ac.
What differant kinds of turbines are available? Will I need to divert
the turbine power when the t-stat shuts off the current going to the
element?
I was thinking five turbines at 24 Vdc each in series for a total of 120
Vdc buss.
Would the 3 amp element that draws 3 amps at 120Vac also draw 3 amps at
120 Vdc? Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question but I am not that
good a ac/dc math.
What kind of wattage am I looking for @ 24 volt Dc turbines?
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| Peter Mounsey 2005-08-06, 3:21 pm |
|
"no one important" <bogususername@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:42F4ED63.9B2608EB@shaw.ca...
> I have now completed installing my tile floors with in floor electrical
> heating.
> Theese are the resistive type heaters controlled by a t-stat.
> Five zones in all
> 3 amps
> 3 amps
> 4 amps
> 5 amps
> 5 amps
> at 120 Vac total 20 amps.
> I am not allowed by municipal bylaw to install a wind turbine where I
> live.
> But I am going to do it anyway. We get these hellish east wind storms
> two or three times a season in the winter.
> The way my house sits I am protected from the prevailing west winds but
> when it comes in from the east let me tell ya!!! I am thinking about
> putting my turbines in between my house and next door house to capture
> this brutal cold wind (where the wind is funneled) I dont think turbine
> noise will bother the neighbour becasue she has no windows there and
> when its blowing from the east everybody closes the windows anyway
> Here is the question.
> The t-stats run off 120 Vac and are adjustable by a ref # from 0-12
> I was thinking of using relays on the output side to dual power the
> floor elements. That part is easy for me to wire. When there is wind and
> the turbines are making power the relay will overide the grid power to
> the floor elements. The more wind the more power the more cold it is
> outside the more heat needed inside simple.
> The problem is what size in watts and voltage should I be looking at for
> a turbine to power say one of the 3 amp zone without converting the Dc
> turbine to Ac.
> What differant kinds of turbines are available? Will I need to divert
> the turbine power when the t-stat shuts off the current going to the
> element?
> I was thinking five turbines at 24 Vdc each in series for a total of 120
> Vdc buss.
> Would the 3 amp element that draws 3 amps at 120Vac also draw 3 amps at
> 120 Vdc? Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question but I am not that
> good a ac/dc math.
> What kind of wattage am I looking for @ 24 volt Dc turbines?
>
You have some problems with this idea.
1. To generate 2.5KW with any consistency in a high & steady wind area you
would need some $10,000 worth of generator.
2. You can't mount a big genny between houses. It's go to go on a high
tower, 100' or so would be good.
3. A genny this size needs to be a couple of miles away from the nearest
neighbour. My 500w genny hacks off my neighbour. He's half a mile away!
4. Assuming you are on-grid, you will never get payback on your investment.
Save yourself a lot of hassle and just plug your heaters into the mains.
Pete.
| |
| no one important 2005-08-07, 12:21 pm |
| Peter Mounsey wrote:
> "no one important" <bogususername@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:42F4ED63.9B2608EB@shaw.ca...
> You have some problems with this idea.
>
> 1. To generate 2.5KW with any consistency in a high & steady wind area you
> would need some $10,000 worth of generator.
>
> 2. You can't mount a big genny between houses. It's go to go on a high
> tower, 100' or so would be good.
>
> 3. A genny this size needs to be a couple of miles away from the nearest
> neighbour. My 500w genny hacks off my neighbour. He's half a mile away!
>
> 4. Assuming you are on-grid, you will never get payback on your investment.
>
> Save yourself a lot of hassle and just plug your heaters into the mains.
>
> Pete.
Hey I am allowed to have a hobby too!
I dont care about pay back.
The question was ac to dc math?
How much Dc watts at 24 volts would it take to get the same as 3 amps @120 Vac?
How much power can one of those turbines with a 6 foot span produce.
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| JoeSixPack 2005-08-07, 4:21 pm |
|
"no one important" <bogususername@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:42F61976.99E099F8@shaw.ca...
> Peter Mounsey wrote:
>
>
> Hey I am allowed to have a hobby too!
> I dont care about pay back.
> The question was ac to dc math?
> How much Dc watts at 24 volts would it take to get the same as 3 amps @120
> Vac?
>
> How much power can one of those turbines with a 6 foot span produce.
>
>
Why electric heating? Surely more efficient methods exist.
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| no one important 2005-08-07, 5:21 pm |
| JoeSixPack wrote:
> "no one important" <bogususername@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:42F61976.99E099F8@shaw.ca...
>
> Why electric heating? Surely more efficient methods exist.
The floor was installed strictly for comfort.
Not everyone here gives a rats XXX about a better way and beside it was the best
way to retrofit an older house.
Its not like I am heating the whole house with it. One main floor bathroom, one
front entrance for drying out boots, one basement bathroom concrete floor, one
kitchen floor two zones in the kitchen. No need for boilers here.... to
complicated. I heat the main floor with wood. Since the concrete took about a
1/2 inch drop at the doorway it worked out perfect. The wire leveled the floor
height to the same as the hallway.
I did get some quotes on installing pipes onto existing concrete before I tiled
the basement and it was just not worth it. I was looking a 6 canuk buks a square
more.
The main floor has an original hard wood floor and I have seen what floor
heating will do to the wood. Not in my lifetime will I ever try to heat this
awesome 41 year old hard wood floor. The wood stove has allready caused some
damage to the floor near the stove.
I heat the main floor with wood and I only turn the floor electric heaters on
when I am home.
The basement can get near freezing when the east wind blows. The worse the
weather the more heat I can get for free from that wind. It's a hobby this wind
thingy all I need to know is the watts dc ac conversion stuff.
Trust me I dont need a 100 foot tower to catch the wind hear............been
looking at my wind cups all day today I been gettin a steady 40 Kmh wind on my
roof.
| |
| JoeSixPack 2005-08-07, 7:21 pm |
|
"no one important" <bogususername@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:42F6673D.7980518@shaw.ca...
> JoeSixPack wrote:
>
>
> The floor was installed strictly for comfort.
> Not everyone here gives a rats XXX about a better way and beside it was
> the best
> way to retrofit an older house.
> Its not like I am heating the whole house with it. One main floor
> bathroom, one
> front entrance for drying out boots, one basement bathroom concrete floor,
> one
> kitchen floor two zones in the kitchen. No need for boilers here.... to
> complicated. I heat the main floor with wood. Since the concrete took
> about a
> 1/2 inch drop at the doorway it worked out perfect. The wire leveled the
> floor
> height to the same as the hallway.
> I did get some quotes on installing pipes onto existing concrete before I
> tiled
> the basement and it was just not worth it. I was looking a 6 canuk buks a
> square
> more.
> The main floor has an original hard wood floor and I have seen what floor
> heating will do to the wood. Not in my lifetime will I ever try to heat
> this
> awesome 41 year old hard wood floor. The wood stove has allready caused
> some
> damage to the floor near the stove.
> I heat the main floor with wood and I only turn the floor electric heaters
> on
> when I am home.
> The basement can get near freezing when the east wind blows. The worse the
> weather the more heat I can get for free from that wind. It's a hobby this
> wind
> thingy all I need to know is the watts dc ac conversion stuff.
> Trust me I dont need a 100 foot tower to catch the wind
> hear............been
> looking at my wind cups all day today I been gettin a steady 40 Kmh wind
> on my
> roof.
Well, do a little math and tell me how many centuries you'll need to make it
pay, vs. hooking up to the grid.
| |
| no one important 2005-08-07, 10:21 pm |
| JoeSixPack wrote:
> "no one important" <bogususername@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:42F6673D.7980518@shaw.ca...
>
> Well, do a little math and tell me how many centuries you'll need to make it
> pay, vs. hooking up to the grid.
Whatever like I said i dont give a rats XXX about payback.there is no such thing
as pay back in this world ........dont waste my time.
| |
| Charles Foot 2005-08-07, 10:21 pm |
| no one important wrote:
> JoeSixPack wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Whatever like I said i dont give a rats XXX about payback.there is no such thing
> as pay back in this world ........dont waste my time.
>
>
Being a resistive load, it will draw exactly the same amount of power on
120vdc as it does at 120vac.
Have to disagree with the idea of series connected turbines though.
There are many reasons to not do it and I'm not going to enumerate them
here..... just forget it, huh? Best plan, IMHO, is a 400 watt, 24v wind
turbine charging a battery bank, and your 3-Amp zone powered viaa a
small inverter. It's only drawing 360 watts (120v @ 3A), so a 400-watt
turbine will give you a useful excess. The battery bank could be about
320 amps. The inverter wouldn't need to be anything fancy either since
you're not powering any sensitive electronics. Any el cheapo MSW
inverter should do nicely.
| |
| Derek Broughton 2005-08-08, 12:21 pm |
| no one important wrote:
>
> Whatever like I said i dont give a rats XXX about payback.there is no such
> thing as pay back in this world ........dont waste my time.
You're the one who's wasting time here. You're asking us to tell you how to
do something, but you're not interested in the right answers. We don't do
"homepower" because we think it's a neat project (though most of us
probably _do_ think it's a neat project). We do it because it's "right" -
and what you want to do is wrong in so many ways.
--
derek
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| Derek Broughton 2005-08-08, 12:21 pm |
| Charles Foot wrote:
> Being a resistive load, it will draw exactly the same amount of power on
> 120vdc as it does at 120vac.
> Have to disagree with the idea of series connected turbines though.
> There are many reasons to not do it and I'm not going to enumerate them
> here..... just forget it, huh? Best plan, IMHO, is a 400 watt, 24v wind
> turbine charging a battery bank, and your 3-Amp zone powered viaa a
> small inverter. It's only drawing 360 watts (120v @ 3A), so a 400-watt
> turbine will give you a useful excess.
Uh, no. A 400W turbine will virtually _never_ give an excess for a 360W
load. It's 400W at its absolute peak efficiency. I'd want to go to a KW
generator.
--
derek
| |
| JoeSixPack 2005-08-08, 4:21 pm |
|
"Derek Broughton" <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote in message
news:5u5ks2-jk7.ln1@othello.pointerstop.ca...
> no one important wrote:
>
>
> You're the one who's wasting time here. You're asking us to tell you how
> to
> do something, but you're not interested in the right answers. We don't do
> "homepower" because we think it's a neat project (though most of us
> probably _do_ think it's a neat project). We do it because it's "right" -
> and what you want to do is wrong in so many ways.
> --
> derek
This newsgroups is one of the rare environments where you are priviledged to
get honest opinions, which are the most valuable at all.
Good information is hard to come by, especially from those who have a vested
interest in selling you something, or are just plain ignorant about the
subject.
If you don't like the message, just add it to your pile, don't dump on those
trying to help.
| |
| Spanky 2005-08-08, 11:21 pm |
| no one important wrote:
> Peter Mounsey wrote:
>
>
> Hey I am allowed to have a hobby too!
> I dont care about pay back.
> The question was ac to dc math?
> How much Dc watts at 24 volts would it take to get the same as 3 amps
> @120 Vac?
3 amps at 120v equals 360 watts
15 amps at 24v equals 360 watts
brings you into the inzone of the ball park. I know the dont care about
payback hobby. I have one of those 403 winturbines, 50 watts worth of solar
panels and with the tower, guy wires, inverter,batteries, and such, it would
many lifetimes to get a payback for the occasional preheating of my
hotwater. The "Its a hobby, it works" with the added benifit of having a
reason to avoid the Honey Do List makes it all the sweeter.
Dollar for Dollar I would get a lot more from an open fire pit with a kettle
of water above it, but its just not as much fun.
>
> How much power can one of those turbines with a 6 foot span produce.
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| no one important 2005-08-09, 2:21 am |
| Derek Broughton wrote:
> no one important wrote:
>
>
> You're the one who's wasting time here. You're asking us to tell you how to
> do something, but you're not interested in the right answers. We don't do
> "homepower" because we think it's a neat project (though most of us
> probably _do_ think it's a neat project). We do it because it's "right" -
> and what you want to do is wrong in so many ways.
> --
> derek
I never once asked how to do anything.............hence the group name does not
imply my way is a cheaper and better way........I asked a simple
question......watts ac dc bla bla bla jeesus h christ forget that I
asked............
I am gonna do what I am gonna do........I dont give a shit about saving power or
getting a pay back its a friggin hobby and a complete waste of time for me ok.
Time well wasted I got some money to blow so kiss mine and dont tell the
neighbours that it dont work eh!
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