Alternative Power sources - Coleman 5,000W Electric Generator

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Coleman 5,000W Electric Generator

Tony

2005-08-06, 4:21 pm

Does anyone have any bad experiences with the Coleman 5,000 watt electric
generator? Its technical specs include:
Control panel with two 120V outlets, one 120/240V twistlock, and circuit
breaker protection
Full perimeter, one inch steel, wrap around carrier protects generator from
damage
5,000 rated watts with 6,250 surge watts of power
Large 5-gallon fuel tank for 6 hours of run time at 50% load
10-hp Tecumseh engine with low oil shutdown
Features a low oil red light alert indicator
Weight: 147 lbs (66.7kg)
Model No. PC0525302.03

SQLit

2005-08-06, 4:21 pm

Robert Morein

2005-08-06, 6:21 pm

"SQLit" <sqlit@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:5C7Je.30$lZ4.7385@news.uswest.net...
>
> "Tony" <tony.removethis@denboef.com> wrote in message
> news:5f7Je.129607$s54.72582@pd7tw2no...
electric[color=darkred]
> from
>
> I used to do warranty work on them 10 years ago. As long as you pay
> attention to the loading they work. If you get close to max very often
they
> tend to go "poof"
>
> I personally would not deal with that motor. But that is my preference not
> yours.
>
Specifically, what "poofs"?
I am interested in the failure modes of cheapies.
I have a 3600 RMP "silent diesel", in baffled enclosure, full pressure lube
aircooled, made by DEK, rated 5 kw continuous with a brushless alternator.
What would be the most likely failure point?

SQLit

2005-08-06, 9:21 pm

"Robert Morein" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:7cCdnXdGd-P_v2jfRVn-vg@giganews.com...
>
> "SQLit" <sqlit@qwest.net> wrote in message
> news:5C7Je.30$lZ4.7385@news.uswest.net...
> electric
circuit[color=darkred]
> they
not[color=darkred]
> Specifically, what "poofs"?

The power side of the generator would quit. We built up kits for the models.
Since most of the generators were 10-40 miles one way we would just replace
all of the generator controls.
The people that bought these machines had not a clue what it took to run a
home. Typically they would come home. Fire up the generator. Water pump
would start, then the clothes washer, next came the lights, then appliances
for dinner and poof. Mostly they had propane for stoves, heating water and
heat. Service calls exploded when cold weather set in. I went to one house
every week until Coleman said no more. The genny was less than 5 months old.
I was so glad then the utility company finally decided to run some lines out
there. Most just did not understand what they were doing. One guy bought
his at the box store connected it wrong 3 times and shorted it out. The box
store kept giving him a new one. It was obovious on arrival that the genny
was not going to run for long nor was it installed correctly. Hence no
warranty from Coleman.

> I am interested in the failure modes of cheapies.
> I have a 3600 RMP "silent diesel", in baffled enclosure, full pressure
lube
> aircooled, made by DEK, rated 5 kw continuous with a brushless alternator.
> What would be the most likely failure point?

I would try to maintain the load at 80% of rating. Especially when starting
motors.

I have no experience with your unit.

Keep to an oil change schedule
Put a hour meter on the unit and check all the connections every ?? hours.
See the manufacture about recommendations.
Make sure it is grounded properly and connected to the loads properly. (
tight and water proof )

Higher rpm motors and gennys tend to not last as long as their slower rimed
cousins.

Check to see the air temp rise in your cabinet. Make sure the engine can
breath as well as keeping the alternator cool when running.

Robert Morein

2005-08-06, 10:21 pm

"SQLit" <sqlit@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:fUbJe.58$lZ4.10714@news.uswest.net...
>
> "Robert Morein" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:7cCdnXdGd-P_v2jfRVn-vg@giganews.com...
> circuit
generator[color=darkred]
often[color=darkred]
> not
>
> The power side of the generator would quit. We built up kits for the
models.
> Since most of the generators were 10-40 miles one way we would just
replace
> all of the generator controls.
> The people that bought these machines had not a clue what it took to run a
> home. Typically they would come home. Fire up the generator. Water pump
> would start, then the clothes washer, next came the lights, then
appliances
> for dinner and poof. Mostly they had propane for stoves, heating water and
> heat. Service calls exploded when cold weather set in. I went to one
house
> every week until Coleman said no more. The genny was less than 5 months
old.
> I was so glad then the utility company finally decided to run some lines
out
> there. Most just did not understand what they were doing. One guy bought
> his at the box store connected it wrong 3 times and shorted it out. The
box
> store kept giving him a new one. It was obovious on arrival that the genny
> was not going to run for long nor was it installed correctly. Hence no
> warranty from Coleman.
>
> lube
alternator.[color=darkred]
>
> I would try to maintain the load at 80% of rating. Especially when
starting
> motors.
>
[snip good advice]
I am fanatical with respect to doing the right thing. It's on breakin, but I
will switch to Mobil Delvac.
What surprises me is -- I assume the Coleman had a circuit breaker. Yet the
performance envelope is so poorly calculated -- or perhaps Coleman doesnt'
care -- that they still blow like popcorn.
You say the controls went, but these things have passive regulators.
Do you have any post-mortem memories -- fried regulators, burnt wiring,
sockets, diodes?

Ulysses

2005-08-06, 10:21 pm

Tony <tony.removethis@denboef.com> wrote in message
news:5f7Je.129607$s54.72582@pd7tw2no...
> Does anyone have any bad experiences with the Coleman 5,000 watt electric
> generator? Its technical specs include:
> Control panel with two 120V outlets, one 120/240V twistlock, and circuit
> breaker protection
> Full perimeter, one inch steel, wrap around carrier protects generator
from
> damage
> 5,000 rated watts with 6,250 surge watts of power
> Large 5-gallon fuel tank for 6 hours of run time at 50% load
> 10-hp Tecumseh engine with low oil shutdown
> Features a low oil red light alert indicator
> Weight: 147 lbs (66.7kg)
> Model No. PC0525302.03
>
>

If you haven't bought it yet I recommend you spend 3 times as much or more
and get a Honda or one that at least has a Honda engine. I had a Coleman
Pulse 1850 and it only lasted a few hundred hours. I had a Honda eu2000
(both rated about 1500 watts continuous) and it last over 12,000 hours. The
Coleman cost $400 and Honda cost $1000. That means it cost about $1.30 for
an hour of running the Coleman and about 8 cents per hour for the Honda. I
also had a Homelite 5000 watt with the Tecumseh 10 Hp engine (HM100) and
although the engine still runs OK and it has a new generator head it took a
lot of fiddling around with it so it would start in less than 25 tries and
it needs to have oil added every couple of hours and it's a LOT louder than
a comparable Honda engine and it uses a lot more gas.

Robert Morein

2005-08-06, 11:21 pm

"Ulysses" <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11fan0ndtmekff6@corp.supernews.com...
>
> Tony <tony.removethis@denboef.com> wrote in message
> news:5f7Je.129607$s54.72582@pd7tw2no...
electric[color=darkred]
> from
>
> If you haven't bought it yet I recommend you spend 3 times as much or more
> and get a Honda or one that at least has a Honda engine.

Except the Honda inverter models. There have been reports here that the
electronics tends to fry, and the cost of replacement parts is so high they
are unrepairable. The Yamaha inverter models have a good rep.

JoeSixPack

2005-08-07, 2:21 pm

"Tony" <tony.removethis@denboef.com> wrote in message
news:5f7Je.129607$s54.72582@pd7tw2no...
> Does anyone have any bad experiences with the Coleman 5,000 watt electric
> generator? Its technical specs include:
> Control panel with two 120V outlets, one 120/240V twistlock, and circuit
> breaker protection
> Full perimeter, one inch steel, wrap around carrier protects generator
> from
> damage
> 5,000 rated watts with 6,250 surge watts of power
> Large 5-gallon fuel tank for 6 hours of run time at 50% load
> 10-hp Tecumseh engine with low oil shutdown
> Features a low oil red light alert indicator
> Weight: 147 lbs (66.7kg)
> Model No. PC0525302.03
>
>

My two-bits is from experience selling various generators for several years.
In the retail game, the cheapest price usually gets the bulk of the market.
For constant use, often a customer buys the cheap one first, then comes back
for the quality one after the first one burns out for the last time. For
the camping market, Coleman is the king, often being able to come in with a
price that beats all, but you can not usually count on a camping generator
cutting it when it's run under heavy load day-in and day-out.

For constant use, you should look at a heavier duty or an industrial model,
which could cost you twice as much or more, but if you like trouble-free
operation, it may be worth it.

Ulysses

2005-08-07, 5:21 pm

"Robert Morein" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:cqednYmqRbVV-mjfRVn-rQ@giganews.com...
>
> "Ulysses" <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:11fan0ndtmekff6@corp.supernews.com...
> electric
circuit[color=darkred]
more[color=darkred]
>
> Except the Honda inverter models. There have been reports here that the
> electronics tends to fry, and the cost of replacement parts is so high
they
> are unrepairable. The Yamaha inverter models have a good rep.
>
>

The Honda eu2000 is an inverter generator and although the electronics still
seem to be OK the engine is worn out and I got an estimate of $800 to repair
it (a new one is $900). So, unless you can fix it yourself they can easily
be classified as unrepairable. I called Honda and there is no short block
or replacement engine available for the eu2000.

I replace my eu2000 with another one after looking into the Yamahas. The
problem with the Yamaha was that there was no place within a reasonable
distance where I could get warranty service if needed and there are two
places within 15 miles that repair Hondas.

SQLit

2005-08-08, 2:21 am

---snipped--------

lots snipped[color=darkred]
> starting
> [snip good advice]
> I am fanatical with respect to doing the right thing. It's on breakin, but
I
> will switch to Mobil Delvac.
> What surprises me is -- I assume the Coleman had a circuit breaker. Yet
the
> performance envelope is so poorly calculated -- or perhaps Coleman doesnt'
> care -- that they still blow like popcorn.
> You say the controls went, but these things have passive regulators.
> Do you have any post-mortem memories -- fried regulators, burnt wiring,
> sockets, diodes?

Coleman is made for a market. They serve that market.

fried regulators, burnt wiring, sockets, diodes yes all of these
I even saw a fair number of the covers melted from heat, fire, god knows.
Since all of the controls were under the cover they usually toasted
everything. It was not worth the time to do a piece by piece replacement.
Runs in my mind that the parts cost Coleman something under $20 then.

Vaughn

2005-08-08, 11:21 pm

"Ulysses" <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11fcoo26eamom56@corp.supernews.com...
>
> The Honda eu2000 is an inverter generator and although the electronics still
> seem to be OK the engine is worn out and I got an estimate of $800 to repair
> it (a new one is $900). So, unless you can fix it yourself they can easily
> be classified as unrepairable. I called Honda and there is no short block
> or replacement engine available for the eu2000.

Although the used Honda parts are themselves quite valuable, somewhere
inside that worn out hulk lies a perfectly good 1500 watt sine wave inverter
trying to get out.

What is the voltage range of the DC generator inside the EU?

Vaughn

Ulysses

2005-08-09, 1:21 am

"Vaughn" <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.fake.net> wrote in message
news:0aUJe.571888$cg1.6362@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "Ulysses" <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:11fcoo26eamom56@corp.supernews.com...
still[color=darkred]
repair[color=darkred]
easily[color=darkred]
block[color=darkred]
>
> Although the used Honda parts are themselves quite valuable,
somewhere
> inside that worn out hulk lies a perfectly good 1500 watt sine wave
inverter
> trying to get out.
>
> What is the voltage range of the DC generator inside the EU?
>
> Vaughn
>
Aha, that is the question. The wiring diagram that comes with the owner's
manual shows 3 coil connections and a second coil with two connections and
no indication of input voltage or polarity. I suspect it is some kind of
dual polarity configuration but I'm only familiar with that for input on OP
Amps. My plan is to either repair the engine or to somehow utilize the
inverter. Either one will require tearing it down to find the exact problem
with the engine and to determine if it's possible to remove the
magneto/alternator and attach it to another Honda engine. I suspect it is a
variation on a GX engine and can only hope that the crankshaft is standard.

All other things aside where can you get a 1500 watt pure sine wave inverter
for the price of a Honda eu2000? Probably nowhere.

Too bad they didn't just make it so the inverter could be run directly from
batteries so the generator could charge the batteries while running and with
an automatic transfer switch shutting down the generator would be seamless.

Anyway, it looks like it's time to buy the shop manual.

One thing I did determine is that the engine will not run if it is
disconnected from the inverter. I think I read that the engine timing is
electronically controlled and this is determined by a wire going to the
ignition coil. I'm not even sure how the ignition coil works because it's
just kinda stuck onto the side of the engine and not directly over the
flywheel like most other coils.

BTW I still have 120VAC output on the poor little thing and it's still more
or less capable of running a load, just not sure how big a load now.

Pete C

2005-08-10, 7:21 pm

On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 20:38:06 -0700, "Ulysses"
<therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Aha, that is the question. The wiring diagram that comes with the owner's
>manual shows 3 coil connections and a second coil with two connections and
>no indication of input voltage or polarity. I suspect it is some kind of
>dual polarity configuration but I'm only familiar with that for input on OP
>Amps. My plan is to either repair the engine or to somehow utilize the
>inverter. Either one will require tearing it down to find the exact problem
>with the engine and to determine if it's possible to remove the
>magneto/alternator and attach it to another Honda engine. I suspect it is a
>variation on a GX engine and can only hope that the crankshaft is standard.
>
>All other things aside where can you get a 1500 watt pure sine wave inverter
>for the price of a Honda eu2000? Probably nowhere.
>
>Too bad they didn't just make it so the inverter could be run directly from
>batteries so the generator could charge the batteries while running and with
>an automatic transfer switch shutting down the generator would be seamless.
>
>Anyway, it looks like it's time to buy the shop manual.
>
>One thing I did determine is that the engine will not run if it is
>disconnected from the inverter. I think I read that the engine timing is
>electronically controlled and this is determined by a wire going to the
>ignition coil. I'm not even sure how the ignition coil works because it's
>just kinda stuck onto the side of the engine and not directly over the
>flywheel like most other coils.
>
>BTW I still have 120VAC output on the poor little thing and it's still more
>or less capable of running a load, just not sure how big a load now.

Hiya,

Looks like the generator part is a 3 phase alternator:

<http://www.motorhomemagazine.com/fo...OnePage/Yes.cfm>

So I guess the AC would be rectified and smoothed to high voltage DC
then stepped down by a switching mode circuit to produce 120VAC pure
sine.

The extra coil could be for starting, engine timing and speed, and/or
generate the 12V DC output.

It may be possible to get a MSW inverter, rectify the output and feed
it into the inverter for it to be converted to a pure sine output, but
could be a bit tricky.

If so, measuring the smoothed high voltage DC in the inverter at
different engine load/revs would tell what sort of voltage would be
allowable.

cheers,
Pete.

Ulysses

2005-08-11, 10:21 pm

"Pete C" <petecnews@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:jtnkf1p01anpvntfa6j4c8m1lo6beh88sc@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 20:38:06 -0700, "Ulysses"
> <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
owner's[color=darkred]
and[color=darkred]
OP[color=darkred]
problem[color=darkred]
is a[color=darkred]
standard.[color=darkred]
inverter[color=darkred]
from[color=darkred]
with[color=darkred]
seamless.[color=darkred]
it's[color=darkred]
more[color=darkred]
>
> Hiya,
>
> Looks like the generator part is a 3 phase alternator:

Thanks for the input. Now I just need to find out what a 3 phase alternator
is...
>
>
<http://www.motorhomemagazine.com/fo.../thread/CFB/1/T
id/302237/DoOnePage/Yes.cfm>
>
> So I guess the AC would be rectified and smoothed to high voltage DC
> then stepped down by a switching mode circuit to produce 120VAC pure
> sine.
>
> The extra coil could be for starting, engine timing and speed, and/or
> generate the 12V DC output.
>
> It may be possible to get a MSW inverter, rectify the output and feed
> it into the inverter for it to be converted to a pure sine output, but
> could be a bit tricky.

Would this somehow be preferable to using batteries for the input?

>
> If so, measuring the smoothed high voltage DC in the inverter at
> different engine load/revs would tell what sort of voltage would be
> allowable.
>
> cheers,
> Pete.

Vaughn

2005-08-12, 7:21 am

"Ulysses" <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11fnte022m9e603@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
> Thanks for the input. Now I just need to find out what a 3 phase alternator
> is...

Hmmm (the sound of Vaughn thinking). You have one in your car...

> Would this somehow be preferable to using batteries for the input?

I don't know. FWIW One of the Yamaha inverter generators has a little
battery to draw from to handle surges. If it is a switcher (it almost certainly
is) it may not really care if it gets AC or DC. However, it sounds like it may
operate with an input above 110 Volts so a 12 volt battery would not work.[color=darkred]
>
>

And what waveform works.

Vaughn

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