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| Author |
Rechargable Batteries/Solar Rechargers...Which Ones?
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| Too_Many_Tools 2005-09-17, 6:21 pm |
| In light of New Orleans, I have decided to upgrade the method that I
care and feed for my battery operated equipment.
In an extended loss of power, one would soon find yourself running out
of batteries.
In light of this, I am considering switching my batteries to
rechargables and to have a solar recharger available as backup.
What would the group suggest for rechargable batteries in common sizes
and what solar charger would you recommend? Brands and models would be
welcomed information.
Also I am curious, how many batteries do you keep in reserve? If one
does not use a battery, how long is the shelf life of a typical
rechargable battery?
Thanks for any and all advice.
TMT
| |
|
| All of the small solar chargers are not very practical. They will charge
your batteries but in multiple days not nearly as fast as you think.
I'd go with a 12V setup, you can buy AAA and AA chargers which run off of
12V dc.
These batteries can be wrapped with cardboard and tape to make them fit into
C and D sized applications. I would get the new 2500mAh Nimh AA's
You would be able to use a small inverter for 120V AC.
Also, there are many 12V appliances available.
Two golf cart batteries (about $100), Charge controller ($100) and a 75W
panel ($400-450) or if you want to start small buy the batteries and a
Vector smart charger.
Ed
"Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1126991708.702815.257190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> In light of New Orleans, I have decided to upgrade the method that I
> care and feed for my battery operated equipment.
>
> In an extended loss of power, one would soon find yourself running out
> of batteries.
>
> In light of this, I am considering switching my batteries to
> rechargables and to have a solar recharger available as backup.
>
> What would the group suggest for rechargable batteries in common sizes
> and what solar charger would you recommend? Brands and models would be
> welcomed information.
>
> Also I am curious, how many batteries do you keep in reserve? If one
> does not use a battery, how long is the shelf life of a typical
> rechargable battery?
>
> Thanks for any and all advice.
>
> TMT
>
| |
| Too_Many_Tools 2005-09-17, 10:21 pm |
| Good idea about the 12v standardization...I have had to jerry rig
systems before with what is at hand...different voltages would just
complicate the efffort.
Do they make the Nimh in C and D size?
Any recommendations for the 12 v charger?
Any portable solar panel assembly for 12v at a respectable amperage?
TMT
| |
| William P. N. Smith 2005-09-17, 11:21 pm |
| "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote:
>In light of New Orleans, I have decided to upgrade the method that I
>care and feed for my battery operated equipment.
Nearly all of my emergency batteries are alkalines. They are cheap,
have very long shelf lives, and fit lots of different kinds of
equipment.
>Also I am curious, how many batteries do you keep in reserve?
We keep one large package of Duracell alkalines of each size unopened
(and one opened), so it varies between one and two packages. I
suspect it's dozens of AAA and AA, maybe a dozen C and D, and 8 of the
9V size.
>If one
>does not use a battery, how long is the shelf life of a typical
>rechargable battery?
Maybe a month. Depends on the technology, use, and charging regime.
Properly maintained lead-acid batteries in a cool environment might go
6 months without any serious degradation other than maybe 50% capacity
self-discharge, but NiCads and NiMHs and such are only good for about
a month, IME, and usually not even that.
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"Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1127005168.616988.277020@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Good idea about the 12v standardization...I have had to jerry rig
> systems before with what is at hand...different voltages would just
> complicate the efffort.
>
> Do they make the Nimh in C and D size?
NiMH are made in C and D sizes. Check Radioshack
or drug stores for Energizer or other brands.
www.batteries.com
>
> Any recommendations for the 12 v charger?
>
> Any portable solar panel assembly for 12v at a respectable amperage?
>
> TMT
>
| |
| Steve Spence 2005-09-17, 11:21 pm |
| Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> In light of New Orleans, I have decided to upgrade the method that I
> care and feed for my battery operated equipment.
>
> In an extended loss of power, one would soon find yourself running out
> of batteries.
>
> In light of this, I am considering switching my batteries to
> rechargables and to have a solar recharger available as backup.
>
> What would the group suggest for rechargable batteries in common sizes
> and what solar charger would you recommend? Brands and models would be
> welcomed information.
>
> Also I am curious, how many batteries do you keep in reserve? If one
> does not use a battery, how long is the shelf life of a typical
> rechargable battery?
>
> Thanks for any and all advice.
>
> TMT
>
Radio shack has common sizes (AA, C, D) in rechargeables (NiMH) and
solar chargers abound.
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
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| Gary Helfert 2005-09-18, 3:21 am |
| I f you were in a New Orleans type situation where there are many trashed
cars from the storm, you will probably have many lead acid car batteries
availble.
I've seen large solar panels available for sale for RV's. Charge the car
battery from the PV panel, run it through an inverter (12 Volt to 120VAC)
you will have much flexibility for charging your Ni-Cads or Ni-Hydrides. In
fact you may be able to salvage the generators from the cars & rig some sort
of wind generator.
"Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1126991708.702815.257190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> In light of New Orleans, I have decided to upgrade the method that I
> care and feed for my battery operated equipment.
>
> In an extended loss of power, one would soon find yourself running out
> of batteries.
>
> In light of this, I am considering switching my batteries to
> rechargables and to have a solar recharger available as backup.
>
> What would the group suggest for rechargable batteries in common sizes
> and what solar charger would you recommend? Brands and models would be
> welcomed information.
>
> Also I am curious, how many batteries do you keep in reserve? If one
> does not use a battery, how long is the shelf life of a typical
> rechargable battery?
>
> Thanks for any and all advice.
>
> TMT
>
| |
| Steve Spence 2005-09-18, 11:21 am |
| Gary Helfert wrote:
> I f you were in a New Orleans type situation where there are many trashed
> cars from the storm, you will probably have many lead acid car batteries
> availble.
> I've seen large solar panels available for sale for RV's. Charge the car
> battery from the PV panel, run it through an inverter (12 Volt to 120VAC)
> you will have much flexibility for charging your Ni-Cads or Ni-Hydrides. In
> fact you may be able to salvage the generators from the cars & rig some sort
> of wind generator.
>
cars don't have generators, they have alternators, and are completely
mismatched for wind applications. A permanent magnet dc motor is a
better choice. or build your own like http://www.otherpower.com/17page1.html
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| danny burstein 2005-09-18, 11:21 am |
| In <nPdXe.9015$gE7.7024@fe08.lga> Steve Spence <sspence@green-trust.org> writes:
>cars don't have generators, they have alternators, and are completely
>mismatched for wind applications. A permanent magnet dc motor is a
>better choice.
Ah, like the starters...
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
| |
| Too_Many_Tools 2005-09-18, 1:21 pm |
| I too have had a supply of alkalines for emergencies.
New Orleans has convinced me that one needs to be able to recharge your
portable power..that is why I am going to lay in a supply of
rechargables.
A small wind generator is not a bad idea.
I ask about what batteries are out there because I realize the new
technologies are being introduced. Since I do not follow this subject
on a regular basis, I thought I would ask about what to buy, where to
buy and how memebers of the group have done it.
TMT
| |
| Gary Helfert 2005-09-18, 4:21 pm |
| I use generator as a generic term. Yes alternators would be a more correct
term. In fact todays alternator will charge a car battery at very low rpms.
Even so you may be right a wind turbine speed may still be to low. I'll bet
if you challenged those guys on junk yard wars to build it, they could. A
belt drive pulley system should be able to compensate for the mismatch in
speeds.
"Steve Spence" <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote in message
news:nPdXe.9015$gE7.7024@fe08.lga...
> Gary Helfert wrote:
>
> cars don't have generators, they have alternators, and are completely
> mismatched for wind applications. A permanent magnet dc motor is a better
> choice. or build your own like http://www.otherpower.com/17page1.html
>
>
> --
> Steve Spence
> Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
> Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
> http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| Ulysses 2005-09-18, 9:21 pm |
|
"tat-2" <tat-2@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:aOydna9nP9IGMbHeRVn-vw@rcn.net...
> All of the small solar chargers are not very practical. They will charge
> your batteries but in multiple days not nearly as fast as you think.
>
> I'd go with a 12V setup, you can buy AAA and AA chargers which run off of
> 12V dc.
> These batteries can be wrapped with cardboard and tape to make them fit
into
> C and D sized applications.
Instead of tape and cardboard I have some short pieces of PVC pipe I use for
that. AA fits into 1/2" pipe for C applications and the 1/2" pipe fits into
3/4" for D applications. Some tape may be needed for a spacer between the
two pipes however.
>
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| Solar Flare 2005-09-19, 12:21 am |
| Yes. Go to Target or Walmart stores for best prices if USanian.
"Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1127005168.616988.277020@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Good idea about the 12v standardization...I have had to jerry rig
systems before with what is at hand...different voltages would just
complicate the efffort.
Do they make the Nimh in C and D size?
Any recommendations for the 12 v charger?
Any portable solar panel assembly for 12v at a respectable amperage?
TMT
| |
| Too_Many_Tools 2005-09-19, 1:21 am |
| Good idea.
The reason why I would like to have actual C and D sizes is for the
amperage capacity.
TMT
| |
| tat-2 2005-09-19, 11:21 am |
| Thanks!
Great idea and completely non-conductive.
Ed
"Ulysses" <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11is07d28v5p6fc@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "tat-2" <tat-2@rcn.com> wrote in message
> news:aOydna9nP9IGMbHeRVn-vw@rcn.net...
> into
>
> Instead of tape and cardboard I have some short pieces of PVC pipe I use
> for
> that. AA fits into 1/2" pipe for C applications and the 1/2" pipe fits
> into
> 3/4" for D applications. Some tape may be needed for a spacer between the
> two pipes however.
>
>
>
>
| |
| Ulysses 2005-09-19, 2:21 pm |
|
"Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1127058182.050429.178390@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> I too have had a supply of alkalines for emergencies.
>
> New Orleans has convinced me that one needs to be able to recharge your
> portable power..that is why I am going to lay in a supply of
> rechargables.
For a while a couple of years ago everyone was dumping the "old" Sunpak 1600
mA NiMh AA batteries. I ended up buying 3 boxes altogether (120 cells).
The funny thing is that the 1600s seem to have more capacity than the 2000
mA cells.
>
| |
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| Ulysses 2005-09-19, 2:21 pm |
|
"Gary Helfert" <ghelfertpublic@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:-b6dnRTUGIshKbDeRVn-pA@comcast.com...
> I use generator as a generic term. Yes alternators would be a more correct
> term. In fact todays alternator will charge a car battery at very low
rpms.
Todays alternators also have hundreds of horsepower driving them. It is not
quite so simple to get a fan blade to turn a car alternator fast enough to
get any usable output. The more power coming out of it the more power you
need going into it. If you were to use a belt-drive system like you
suggested it would speed up the alternator but in effect slow down the fan.
Of course hurricane force winds might be enough to get it going. You might
be better off driving it with a stationary bicycle setup.
> Even so you may be right a wind turbine speed may still be to low. I'll
bet
> if you challenged those guys on junk yard wars to build it, they could. A
> belt drive pulley system should be able to compensate for the mismatch in
> speeds.
>
> "Steve Spence" <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote in message
> news:nPdXe.9015$gE7.7024@fe08.lga...
trashed[color=darkred]
batteries[color=darkred]
car[color=darkred]
120VAC)[color=darkred]
Ni-Hydrides.[color=darkred]
better[color=darkred]
>
>
| |
| Chris W 2005-09-19, 3:21 pm |
| With out spending a tremendous amount of money and real estate to put
them on, solar panels aren't going to be very helpful at charging very
many batteries in a reasonable amount of time. Take a look at the cost
of a small generator and just five gallons of gas and see how much
energy you get out of that and then see how much it would cost to get
the same amount of energy from solar panels in even double the amount
of time. Also a hand crank or a pedal powered generator would also give
a lot more bang for your buck. To give you an idea of how expensive and
inefficient solar panels are, I did calculation a while back, if you
were to get 100% rated out put of a solar panel for 8 hours a day 365
days a year it would take 20 years for them to pay for them self at the
rate I am paying for electricity today. Solar energy is on the other
hand very useful for heat and in certain parts of the country you can
easily heat your house with solar heat, if it is built for it for it
from the beginning, you can even design in enough heat storage in the
floor and dirt below the house to keep the house warm through extended
periods of heavy over cast. Also, unlike solar electric panels, solar
heating panels will still give a useful amount of heat on bright cloudy
days, just the same as you can get a sun burn on cloudy days.
If you are using it just for charging batteries, I think you will find a
small (1000W or so) generator and 5 gallons of gas will go a very long way.
--
Chris W
Gift Giving Made Easy
Get the gifts you want &
give the gifts they want
http://thewishzone.com
| |
|
| On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:57:20 -0500, Chris W <1qazse4@cox.net> wrote:
>If you are using it just for charging batteries, I think you will find a
>small (1000W or so) generator and 5 gallons of gas will go a very long way.
Small generators are very useful for many things. But the average
charger for dry cells needs but a few Watts, since the energy can only
be crammed into the cells so fast. Running a 1000 Watt generator for
that would be incredibly wasteful, and won't take any less time or
space than a small solar panel.
Wayne
| |
| Too_Many_Tools 2005-09-19, 11:21 pm |
| I do agree with you that a generator would be better...and I have one.
I want the solar (or wind) as a backup in case gas becomes unavailable.
If there anything that Katrina taught me, it is to expect no outside
assistance in an emergency for a very long time.
TMT
| |
| Chris W 2005-09-20, 6:21 am |
| wmbjk wrote:
>On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:57:20 -0500, Chris W <1qazse4@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>Small generators are very useful for many things. But the average
>charger for dry cells needs but a few Watts, since the energy can only
>be crammed into the cells so fast. Running a 1000 Watt generator for
>that would be incredibly wasteful, and won't take any less time or
>space than a small solar panel.
>
>Wayne
>
>
If I am going to rely on battery power for an extended period of time I
am going to want lots of batteries. So say I want to charge 12 2,500
mAh AAs and a 2 car batteries at the same time, that's not too
unreasonable I don't think. With inefficiencies in the chargers, that
would take over 200 watts easy. I'm sure you can find something to use
the remaining generator out put for. It would cost nearly $1000 for
that much energy from solar panels. I just don't see spending the money
when there are so many other more economical sources of energy. Wind is
great if you live in the right place. You are going to want to be able
to take your wind mill down to keep protected if a hurricane comes
though, or it won't do you much good for long. If you did spend the
$1000 for the solar panels they would get you at most 2000 watt hours a
day, and that's very optimistic. With this generator
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...uctId=709&R=709
and 10 gallons of gas you could get nearly 60,000 watt hours. That's 2
hours a day of 1000 watts for 30 days. I can see you being with out
power for that long of a time period but I doubt that before a month was
up you could find gas somewhere even if you had to drive 50 or 100 miles
away to get it. If you keep your car tank full and 2, 5 gallon gas cans
in the garage, you would have lot's of power for a pretty long time.
You could use that to recharge a large bank of 12V car batteries. Get
some nice 12V LED lights and you would have light for a very long time.
--
Chris W
Gift Giving Made Easy
Get the gifts you want &
give the gifts they want
http://thewishzone.com
| |
|
|
"Chris W" <1qazse4@cox.net> wrote in message
news:WGPXe.5870$GK2.3503@lakeread07...
> wmbjk wrote:
>
> If I am going to rely on battery power for an extended period of time I am
> going to want lots of batteries. So say I want to charge 12 2,500 mAh
> AAs and a 2 car batteries at the same time, that's not too unreasonable I
> don't think. With inefficiencies in the chargers, that would take over
> 200 watts easy. I'm sure you can find something to use the remaining
> generator out put for. It would cost nearly $1000 for that much energy
> from solar panels. I just don't see spending the money when there are so
> many other more economical sources of energy. Wind is great if you live
> in the right place. You are going to want to be able to take your wind
> mill down to keep protected if a hurricane comes though, or it won't do
> you much good for long. If you did spend the $1000 for the solar panels
> they would get you at most 2000 watt hours a day, and that's very
> optimistic. With this generator
> http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...uctId=709&R=709
>
> and 10 gallons of gas you could get nearly 60,000 watt hours. That's 2
> hours a day of 1000 watts for 30 days. I can see you being with out power
> for that long of a time period but I doubt that before a month was up you
> could find gas somewhere even if you had to drive 50 or 100 miles away to
> get it. If you keep your car tank full and 2, 5 gallon gas cans in the
> garage, you would have lot's of power for a pretty long time. You could
> use that to recharge a large bank of 12V car batteries. Get some nice 12V
> LED lights and you would have light for a very long time.
> --
> Chris W
>
> Gift Giving Made Easy
> Get the gifts you want & give the gifts they want
> http://thewishzone.com
I can see your idea, as for me though I've been thinking about get a solar
set up just for say one item the refigerator. Gas generators are great but
when Katrina knock out some of the ifra structure you had to wait as much as
12 hours just to get gas, then it was rations to only 20 or 30 gals. So
you'd realy make sure you got the gas before the huricain hits or you anit
going to get gas much at all afterwards.
| |
| Too_Many_Tools 2005-09-21, 8:21 pm |
| Uhmm..went shopping today and compared the AA and D size of Hihm.
They were both 2500mA....what the ???
Does that mean that the AA and the D size have the same amount of
power?
Is a D size just a AA in a large container?
TMT
| |
| Steve Spence 2005-09-21, 8:21 pm |
| In-Reply-To: <1127342114.845737.178530@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
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Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> Uhmm..went shopping today and compared the AA and D size of Hihm.
>
> They were both 2500mA....what the ???
>
> Does that mean that the AA and the D size have the same amount of
> power?
>
> Is a D size just a AA in a large container?
>
> TMT
>
companies sometimes put the smaller cells in the larger container so
they only have one size to manufacture. look for the most mah that you
can find. Radio Shack's NiMH D's are 4500 mah.
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| Jens Kr. Kirkebø 2005-09-21, 8:21 pm |
| On 21 Sep 2005 15:35:14 -0700, "Too_Many_Tools"
<too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Uhmm..went shopping today and compared the AA and D size of Hihm.
>
>They were both 2500mA....what the ???
>
>Does that mean that the AA and the D size have the same amount of
>power?
>
>Is a D size just a AA in a large container>
You found some not-so-good Ds then. Proper NiMh D-cells are about 9Ah.
| |
| Too_Many_Tools 2005-09-21, 8:21 pm |
| Thanks for the info....do you recommend Radio Shack as the source for
rechargables?
How about a for 12v/120v recharger?
TMT
| |
|
|
|
| Check www.thomasdistributing.com for batteries of all type.
"Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1126991708.702815.257190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> In light of New Orleans, I have decided to upgrade the method that I
> care and feed for my battery operated equipment.
>
> In an extended loss of power, one would soon find yourself running out
> of batteries.
>
> In light of this, I am considering switching my batteries to
> rechargables and to have a solar recharger available as backup.
>
> What would the group suggest for rechargable batteries in common sizes
> and what solar charger would you recommend? Brands and models would be
> welcomed information.
>
> Also I am curious, how many batteries do you keep in reserve? If one
> does not use a battery, how long is the shelf life of a typical
> rechargable battery?
>
> Thanks for any and all advice.
>
> TMT
>
| |
|
| Dunno, but I've found cigarette-lighter adapters for the car to be much more
convenient than those small solar-chargers... The car-battery will be much
more reliable at keeping 'em charged than solar if you're stuck with no
power and cloudy or stormy conditions that lasts for several weeks. The
little chargers also seem to "break" pretty quickly, too, atleast compared
to the car battery.
That's how I keep all my small things charged. Saves my solar-power for
lights other things in times when there's no sun for extended periods.
"Marc" <swimman@cox.net> wrote in message
news:swyYe.50315$Cc5.47381@lakeread06...
> Check www.thomasdistributing.com for batteries of all type.
> "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1126991708.702815.257190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
>
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