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Home > Archive > Alternative Power sources > September 2005 > Gas with alcohol stored in generator
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Gas with alcohol stored in generator
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| Gail Storm 2005-09-27, 7:21 pm |
| I just purchased a Generac 4000EXL generator and I have a question. The
generator Owners Manual states not to use fuel that contains Methanol. Under
Storage Instructions in the Engine Manual it states Alcohol-blended fuel
(gasohol) attracts moisture and should be drained. I live in the outer
surrounding Chicago area and that is a standard ingredient in all gasoline here.
I understand that Sta-Bil will also prevent against problems from alcohol is
that correct or should I drain tank? Your knowledge, experience or
recommendations would be appreciated.
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| Robert Morein 2005-09-27, 10:21 pm |
|
"Gail Storm" <menotlocated@attmenot.net> wrote in message
news:wNi_e.327301$5N3.96598@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>I just purchased a Generac 4000EXL generator and I have a question. The
> generator Owners Manual states not to use fuel that contains Methanol.
> Under
> Storage Instructions in the Engine Manual it states Alcohol-blended fuel
> (gasohol) attracts moisture and should be drained. I live in the outer
> surrounding Chicago area and that is a standard ingredient in all gasoline
> here.
> I understand that Sta-Bil will also prevent against problems from alcohol
> is
> that correct or should I drain tank? Your knowledge, experience or
> recommendations would be appreciated.
>
My opinion is, drain it.
Put only small amounts in for maintenance runs, and just run it dry.
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| On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 21:02:51 -0400, "Robert Morein" <nowhere@nowhere.com>
wrote:
>
>"Gail Storm" <menotlocated@attmenot.net> wrote in message
>news:wNi_e.327301$5N3.96598@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>My opinion is, drain it.
>Put only small amounts in for maintenance runs, and just run it dry.
Draining the carb will cause more problems than leaving fuel in it. It
will get gummed up.
Stabilizer will protect against moisture. In your case you are prone to
more moisture than normal and should add double the recommended amount (it
won't hurt it).
It's ALWAYS better to leave the fuel system wet (with fuel) than to dry it
out for storage.
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| William P. N. Smith 2005-09-28, 9:21 am |
| Mark <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>Draining the carb will cause more problems than leaving fuel in it. It
>will get gummed up.
>It's ALWAYS better to leave the fuel system wet (with fuel) than to dry it
>out for storage.
My NG-fueled generator came with a conversion that didn't require
removal of the gasoline carb, so I hooked up the gasoline fuel lines
and discovered it runs (*) just fine on gasoline. I then ran it dry
on gasoline and have run it exclusively on NG for the last 6 years,
mostly it's weekly cycle, but the occasional power failure.
Does this mean my gasoline carb is ruined (I've still got the gasoline
lines in place with a marine disconnect fitting and a marine gasoline
tank for emergency use), or is very occasional gasoline use OK for it?
Should/can I do anything to clean or preserve the life of the gasoline
carb?
(*) Runs fine, but since the engine shutoff is controlled via the NG
solenoid valve, it won't shut off on gasoline, and I have to
disconnect the gas line and let it run out of fuel. Oh well.
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| On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:49:24 -0400, William P. N. Smith <> wrote:
>Mark <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>
>My NG-fueled generator came with a conversion that didn't require
>removal of the gasoline carb, so I hooked up the gasoline fuel lines
>and discovered it runs (*) just fine on gasoline. I then ran it dry
>on gasoline and have run it exclusively on NG for the last 6 years,
>mostly it's weekly cycle, but the occasional power failure.
>
>Does this mean my gasoline carb is ruined
No, this is different. Running it dry once should be fine. It's the
repeatedly drying it out (since most generators are run very infrequently)
which will cause the varnish buildup.
Also, to clarify, you won't "ruin" your carb if you do this. You will gum
it up and it will need to be cleaned. Sometimes you get lucky and regular
carb cleaner sprayed throughout does the trick. Other times, you need to
dismantle it and then use carb cleaner. Either way, nothing is permanently
ruined.
>(I've still got the gasoline
>lines in place with a marine disconnect fitting and a marine gasoline
>tank for emergency use), or is very occasional gasoline use OK for it?
>Should/can I do anything to clean or preserve the life of the gasoline
>carb?
If it's dry now, leave it dry. Your use is uncommon and should not be a
problem.
>(*) Runs fine, but since the engine shutoff is controlled via the NG
>solenoid valve, it won't shut off on gasoline, and I have to
>disconnect the gas line and let it run out of fuel. Oh well.
There is no gasoline fuel shutoff valve? That is an unusual situation.
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| Bruce in Alaska 2005-09-28, 3:21 pm |
| In article <ra0lj15ogg45fp6rv4daspt7vbegcp2bp0@4ax.com>,
William P. N. Smith <> wrote:
> Mark <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>
> My NG-fueled generator came with a conversion that didn't require
> removal of the gasoline carb, so I hooked up the gasoline fuel lines
> and discovered it runs (*) just fine on gasoline. I then ran it dry
> on gasoline and have run it exclusively on NG for the last 6 years,
> mostly it's weekly cycle, but the occasional power failure.
>
> Does this mean my gasoline carb is ruined (I've still got the gasoline
> lines in place with a marine disconnect fitting and a marine gasoline
> tank for emergency use), or is very occasional gasoline use OK for it?
> Should/can I do anything to clean or preserve the life of the gasoline
> carb?
>
> (*) Runs fine, but since the engine shutoff is controlled via the NG
> solenoid valve, it won't shut off on gasoline, and I have to
> disconnect the gas line and let it run out of fuel. Oh well.
You can put a "throttle cutoff solenoid" to pull the throttle linkage to
cutoff on any engine. (Most diesels use this method for shutdown) That
said, I would tend to leave it the way it is so that you run all the gas
out of the carb, so that it doesn't gum up while standing between
gasoline runs.
Bruce in alaska
--
add a <2> before @
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| William P. N. Smith 2005-09-28, 4:21 pm |
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Mark <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>William P. N. Smith <> wrote:
[color=darkred]
>Also, to clarify, you won't "ruin" your carb if you do this. You will gum
>it up and it will need to be cleaned.
Right, I guess my definition of 'ruined' is that due to some
unanticiapted natural disaster the power goes out and the NG also
fails, and I go to run on gasoline only to find that my gasoline carb
is all gummed up and won't function without a major cleaning or
rebuilding effort.
>There is no gasoline fuel shutoff valve? That is an unusual situation.
I suspect there was a spark-grounding engine shutoff before the engine
was built into the generator, but it's not connected to the current
control system because that's set up with a NG solenoid valve.
In fact, I can't think of any small gasoline engine (or any large one,
come to think of it) that shuts the fuel off to shut the engine down.
There's no manual fuel shutoff because they removed the gasoline fuel
lines when they converted it to NG.
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| Gail Storm 2005-09-28, 8:21 pm |
|
"Mark" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:q6ukj1lii50ol924pkqn4mcun09kuo9cu5@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 21:02:51 -0400, "Robert Morein" <nowhere@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> Draining the carb will cause more problems than leaving fuel in it. It
> will get gummed up.
>
> Stabilizer will protect against moisture. In your case you are prone to
> more moisture than normal and should add double the recommended amount (it
> won't hurt it).
>
> It's ALWAYS better to leave the fuel system wet (with fuel) than to dry it
> out for storage.
Thank you for the replies. I usually lose power about once a year although
sometimes it's 3-4 times a year. Last month lighting took out a fuse and it took
14 hours for the Power Company to reset it. Trouble was the temperature was in
the 90's so my freezer melted inside also no water as I have a private well. I
live in a remote area. I also fear the loss of power in the winter as we do get
a number of ice storms. Could be a long time before my lights would be turned
back on in that event. I found that the Power Company sets their priorities by
the number of complaints and I have only one vote. I will double the stabilizer
Mark, how often should I drain and replace the gas? Would you suggest that I run
the generator when I re-fill with new fuel? Thanks again, GS.
| |
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| On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 22:19:29 GMT, "Gail Storm" <menotlocated@attmenot.net>
wrote:
>
>"Mark" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>news:q6ukj1lii50ol924pkqn4mcun09kuo9cu5@4ax.com...
>
>Thank you for the replies. I usually lose power about once a year although
>sometimes it's 3-4 times a year. Last month lighting took out a fuse and it took
>14 hours for the Power Company to reset it. Trouble was the temperature was in
>the 90's so my freezer melted inside also no water as I have a private well. I
>live in a remote area. I also fear the loss of power in the winter as we do get
>a number of ice storms. Could be a long time before my lights would be turned
>back on in that event. I found that the Power Company sets their priorities by
>the number of complaints and I have only one vote. I will double the stabilizer
>Mark, how often should I drain and replace the gas? Would you suggest that I run
>the generator when I re-fill with new fuel? Thanks again, GS.
The stabilizer you buy will tell you how long it is good for. 12-18 months
is normal.
When you change out to fresh gas/stabilizer, you should run the generator
for a few minutes on the new stuff, otherwise you'll be leaving stale gas
in the lines and carb.
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| Gail Storm 2005-09-29, 4:21 pm |
| <SNIP>
run[color=darkred]
>
> The stabilizer you buy will tell you how long it is good for. 12-18 months
> is normal.
>
> When you change out to fresh gas/stabilizer, you should run the generator
> for a few minutes on the new stuff, otherwise you'll be leaving stale gas
> in the lines and carb.
Thank you Mark, you have been most helpfully, GS.
| |
| Apartment Dude 2005-09-30, 1:21 am |
| I thought the midwest was using Ethanol which is different from
Methanol.
Gail Storm wrote:
> I just purchased a Generac 4000EXL generator and I have a question. The
> generator Owners Manual states not to use fuel that contains Methanol. Under
> Storage Instructions in the Engine Manual it states Alcohol-blended fuel
> (gasohol) attracts moisture and should be drained. I live in the outer
> surrounding Chicago area and that is a standard ingredient in all gasoline here.
> I understand that Sta-Bil will also prevent against problems from alcohol is
> that correct or should I drain tank? Your knowledge, experience or
> recommendations would be appreciated.
| |
| Steve Spence 2005-09-30, 12:21 pm |
| Apartment Dude wrote:
> I thought the midwest was using Ethanol which is different from
> Methanol.
> Gail Storm wrote:
>
>
>
We put "dry gas" in fuel tanks in order to make water in the tank
miscible so it burns with the fuel instead of shutting the engine down
on a pure water globule. All gasoline contains either a methanol or
ethanol derivative.
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| Gail Storm 2005-09-30, 6:21 pm |
|
"Steve Spence" <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote in message
news:kSb%e.5443$dl2.2035@fe08.lga...
> Apartment Dude wrote:
here.[color=darkred]
> We put "dry gas" in fuel tanks in order to make water in the tank
> miscible so it burns with the fuel instead of shutting the engine down
> on a pure water globule. All gasoline contains either a methanol or
> ethanol derivative.
>
> --
> Steve Spence
> Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
> Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
> http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
You are correct Steve, but I thought the "original" argument was to reduce air
pollution? Also, as Illinois is a big producer of corn the farmers and the
politicians are pushing for even greater use of alcohol here. Their argument is
to reduce the dependence on gasoline. Prior to the standard 10% alcohol
additive, it was very common years ago to add a product called Heat to your car
gas tank in the winter. Which was basically alcohol and used as a preventative
to gas line freeze, caused by water in the gas supply. Even today I see people
still adding the stuff. I don't know if you remember that old advertisement "My
advice sir is to get deicer!" GS
| |
| Steve Spence 2005-09-30, 6:21 pm |
| Gail Storm wrote:
> "Steve Spence" <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote in message
> news:kSb%e.5443$dl2.2035@fe08.lga...
>
>
> here.
>
[color=darkred]
> You are correct Steve, but I thought the "original" argument was to reduce air
> pollution? Also, as Illinois is a big producer of corn the farmers and the
> politicians are pushing for even greater use of alcohol here. Their argument is
> to reduce the dependence on gasoline. Prior to the standard 10% alcohol
> additive, it was very common years ago to add a product called Heat to your car
> gas tank in the winter. Which was basically alcohol and used as a preventative
> to gas line freeze, caused by water in the gas supply. Even today I see people
> still adding the stuff. I don't know if you remember that old advertisement "My
> advice sir is to get deicer!" GS
>
You are correct. I'm responding to the advice of not using ethanol or
methanol because it "attracts" water.
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
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