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Home > Archive > Alternative Power sources > January 2006 > insulated window curtains
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insulated window curtains
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| Scott Loupin 2006-01-11, 11:21 am |
| Anyone know of any sources for insulated window curtains, or directions on
how to make them? Some of our windows, although low-e, argon filled, etc,
are cold.
Thanks in advance.
Scott
| |
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| Scott Loupin wrote:
> Anyone know of any sources for insulated window curtains, or directions on
> how to make them? Some of our windows, although low-e, argon filled, etc,
> are cold.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Scott
>
>
Hi Scott,
There are some plans and links for insulating window curtains and other window
insulating treatments on my site here:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Project...onservation.htm
scan down the page to "Insulating Window Treatments"
I did not actually put it in the list above, but we use duofold blinds with a
side "energy track" that closes up the edge gap -- I think these are made by
Symphony Shades. They seem to work pretty well.
--
Gary
www.BuildItSolar.com
gary@BuildItSolar.com
"Build It Yourself" Solar Projects
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| Derek Broughton 2006-01-11, 12:21 pm |
| Scott Loupin wrote:
> Anyone know of any sources for insulated window curtains, or directions on
> how to make them? Some of our windows, although low-e, argon filled, etc,
> are cold.
>
I know they used to be advertised regularly in "Harrowsmith Country Life"
magazine, but I haven't picked up a copy in years.
You want to be really careful about doing this. For North or West facing
windows it's probably safe. For South-facing, it might be. Don't do it on
East windows. If they're tight enough to really work, you can end up
gathering enough heat between the window and the insulation to blow the
seals on the panes before you open the curtain. A local passive-solar
builder has experimented with this at considerable cost :-(
--
derek
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| barry@sme-online.com 2006-01-11, 1:21 pm |
| Very interesting. Could you describe the environment and circumstances
in which this happened (including maybe what windows are at risk)?
Seems to me that the S-facing windows would be at most risk here, and E
at next to lowest. Oh- that's in CT, US of A.
J
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| Derek Broughton 2006-01-11, 2:21 pm |
| barry@sme-online.com wrote:
> Very interesting. Could you describe the environment and circumstances
> in which this happened (including maybe what windows are at risk)?
> Seems to me that the S-facing windows would be at most risk here, and E
> at next to lowest. Oh- that's in CT, US of A.
East windows are at risk if they can heat up before you get up and open the
curtains. S. window curtains are more likely to be opened before they get
to be a problem. Really, W. windows - exposed to the setting sun at the
best angle of incidence - are the ones that heat up the most, but you're
not likely to have the curtains closed at the time!
I don't have a complete recollection of Don's experiments, but I think it
often came down to windows where the homeowner left the blinds closed all
day - for instance a bedroom which the occupants left in the morning
without opening them. In the main living areas, you're not likely to leave
the curtains closed when it's light outside and you're up and about.
--
derek
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| WisJim 2006-01-11, 2:21 pm |
| "Window quilts" is a brand name of an insulating fabric batt and a
method of making roman shade style window insulation that we have been
using for over 20 or 25 years with good results, including on the south
windows of our greenhouse/sunspace. Googling "window quilts" should
give you good results.
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| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2006-01-11, 3:21 pm |
| Derek Broughton <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>... I think it often came down to windows where the homeowner left the blinds
>closed all day...
We might collect solar heat and avoid damage by leaving an opening at the top.
Nick
| |
| Derek Broughton 2006-01-11, 4:21 pm |
| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
> Derek Broughton <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>
>
> We might collect solar heat and avoid damage by leaving an opening at the
> top.
Probably. You just need to be careful and consider the possibility of
whether you can overheat that space. I don't even know what temperature
you'd need to worry about.
--
derek
| |
|
| Derek Broughton wrote:
> Scott Loupin wrote:
>
>
>
> I know they used to be advertised regularly in "Harrowsmith Country Life"
> magazine, but I haven't picked up a copy in years.
>
> You want to be really careful about doing this. For North or West facing
> windows it's probably safe. For South-facing, it might be. Don't do it on
> East windows. If they're tight enough to really work, you can end up
> gathering enough heat between the window and the insulation to blow the
> seals on the panes before you open the curtain. A local passive-solar
> builder has experimented with this at considerable cost :-(
Hi Derek,
It would be nice to get more detial on this.
We have had duofold shades with side "energy tracks" (for a tight fit) on our
large east facing windows for 3 years now, and have had no problem. We leave
the shades down when traveling, so they have been down for weeks at a time.
I wonder if it depends a lot on the glass. Some glass is made to absorb heat so
to lessen room overheating -- this may make things worse, since the heat is
absorbed by the glass. But, our east windows are very slightly tinted, and do
absorb some heat, and we still have had no problem.
I guess the question could be put to a window manufacturer.
--
Gary
www.BuildItSolar.com
gary@BuildItSolar.com
"Build It Yourself" Solar Projects
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| |
| JoeSP 2006-01-11, 10:21 pm |
|
"Scott Loupin" <Scott.DELETEALLCAPSLoupin2@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:z89xf.17557$ya4.5775@trnddc03...
> Anyone know of any sources for insulated window curtains, or directions on
> how to make them? Some of our windows, although low-e, argon filled, etc,
> are cold.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
I'm assuming the plan is to stop heat loss radiating out through the window
pane, and to avoid the convective heat loss caused by cool air behind the
curtain spilling to the floor and pouring out into the room. In lieu of a
commercially-available solution, here are some suggestions.
Two factors are necessary to accomplish these two goals:
Firstly, an insulating and reflecting material in the curtain to lessen
radiant heat loss. A sheet of reflectix or ayrfoil-type material is probably
the most cost effective for this purpose. A light-colored quilt may serve
that purpose too.
Secondly, the airflow behind the curtain should be reduced by either
fastening the curtain to the wall with something like Velcro, or installing
a thick, soft cushioning material from top to bottom and along the sides.
In addition, I would apply a clear plastic barrier over the window for the
winter as a first line of defense against the cold.
| |
|
| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
> Derek Broughton <news@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> We might collect solar heat and avoid damage by leaving an opening at the top.
>
> Nick
>
Hi Nick,
That is a slick idea -- how about a duofold blind that has an integrated solar
collector?
It could have a slot opening across the top and one or two plastic film dampers
at the bottom to prevent reverse flow? It would automatically transition from
insulating mode to collecting mode? The slot across the top would have little
effect on its performance as a window insulator?
While it would not perform any better as a collector than just opening the
shade, there are times when you might not want the shade open due to glare or
whatever -- especially for east or west windows.
For rooms that might tend to overheat if the shade was left open, some thermal
mass might be placed above the exit slot?
The incremental cost over a regular shade would be so small that you could
afford to add it to east or west facing windows, even though they are not
ideally oriented for collecting? This is literally a 10 cent solar collector if
you only consider the incrmental cost over the shade.
Potentially the plastic film dampers could be built into a fixed assembly that
sits in the lower 3 inches or so of the window opening, with the bottom of the
closed duofold resting on top the film damper support member?
--
Gary
www.BuildItSolar.com
gary@BuildItSolar.com
"Build It Yourself" Solar Projects
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| |
| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2006-01-12, 2:21 am |
| Gary <gary@builditsolar.com> wrote:
[color=darkred]
>... how about a duofold blind that has an integrated solar collector?
Sounds cool. What's "duofold"?
>It could have a slot opening across the top and one or two plastic film
>dampers at the bottom to prevent reverse flow? It would automatically
>transition from insulating mode to collecting mode? The slot across
>the top would have little effect on its performance as a window insulator?
Sure, but it would be nice to avoid the plastic film, which is somewhat
fragile and may leak and may not work very well with a small height diff.
How about a "flow organizer" instead, with the only openings at the top?
At night, air stays trapped inside. During the day, cool air flows in
at the top and falls down next to the glazing and gets warmed as it flows
from south to north through a dark mesh and flows up and back out just
above the cool air entrance. This would tend to make the shade deep in
the NS direction, ie it might project into the room a few inches from
the inner glazing.
>The incremental cost over a regular shade would be so small that you could
>afford to add it to east or west facing windows, even though they are not
>ideally oriented for collecting? This is literally a 10 cent solar collector
>if you only consider the incrmental cost over the shade.
Sounds nice :-)
Nick
| |
|
| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
> Gary <gary@builditsolar.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sounds cool. What's "duofold"?
Maybe the right word is cellular? -- anyway they look like this:
http://cellularwindowshades.com/cordless.html
>
>
>
>
> Sure, but it would be nice to avoid the plastic film, which is somewhat
> fragile and may leak and may not work very well with a small height diff.
> How about a "flow organizer" instead, with the only openings at the top?
> At night, air stays trapped inside. During the day, cool air flows in
> at the top and falls down next to the glazing and gets warmed as it flows
> from south to north through a dark mesh and flows up and back out just
> above the cool air entrance. This would tend to make the shade deep in
> the NS direction, ie it might project into the room a few inches from
> the inner glazing.
>
>
>
I decided to go ahead and change our only south facing window to this scheme.
I'll put some pictures (and hopefully data) up under the "Experimental" tab of
www.BuildItSolar.com tomorrow late in the day.
I'm just going to try the plastic film dampers for a start, since I know how to
make these work -- maybe flow organizers later -- is this the same as the
Delaney concept?
Gary
>
> Sounds nice :-)
>
> Nick
>
--
Gary
www.BuildItSolar.com
gary@BuildItSolar.com
"Build It Yourself" Solar Projects
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| |
| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2006-01-13, 6:21 am |
| Gary <gary@builditsolar.com> wrote:
[color=darkred]
>I'm just going to try the plastic film dampers for a start, since I know how
>to make these work -- maybe flow organizers later -- is this the same as the
>Delaney concept?
Yes, but simpler, with only 1 "chimney" in the center. After lots of 3D head
scratching, I found a way to make it from 3 simple layers of foamboard, IIRC,
an inboard layer with a gap at the top, and 2 vertical foamboard strips inside
that to support the mesh... I can't recall the organizer geometry, but the
result was too thick for the windows I had in mind, so I tossed the sketches.
Nick
| |
| A Veteran for Peace 2006-01-13, 2:21 pm |
| In article <z89xf.17557$ya4.5775@trnddc03>,
"Scott Loupin" <Scott.DELETEALLCAPSLoupin2@verizon.net> wrote:
> Anyone know of any sources for insulated window curtains, or directions on
> how to make them? Some of our windows, although low-e, argon filled, etc,
> are cold.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Scott
I've read a great book on this. "Movable Insulation" by William Langdon
ISBN 0-87757-310-0
old might be OoP.
--
Join the alt.energy movement
Keep Nuclear power 93 million miles away
| |
| Nick Hull 2006-01-13, 5:21 pm |
| In article <z89xf.17557$ya4.5775@trnddc03>,
"Scott Loupin" <Scott.DELETEALLCAPSLoupin2@verizon.net> wrote:
> Anyone know of any sources for insulated window curtains, or directions on
> how to make them? Some of our windows, although low-e, argon filled, etc,
> are cold.
I just use custom cut pieces of 1" thick styrofoam right against the
glass. Has been working well for 25 years.
--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/
| |
|
| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
> Gary <gary@builditsolar.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yes, but simpler, with only 1 "chimney" in the center. After lots of 3D head
> scratching, I found a way to make it from 3 simple layers of foamboard, IIRC,
> an inboard layer with a gap at the top, and 2 vertical foamboard strips inside
> that to support the mesh... I can't recall the organizer geometry, but the
> result was too thick for the windows I had in mind, so I tossed the sketches.
>
> Nick
>
Hi,
I did a first cut at a simple thermal shade that now acts as both a thermal
shade and a thermosyphon solar air collector.
Its described here:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Experim...de/colshade.htm
I'm a bit undecided on how much (if any) merit the concept has. It does seem
like under some circumstances it could be a benefit, and its pretty easy to do.
Comments (either way) would be welcome.
---
Also has a picture of the new Onset pendant style solar intensity logger -- a
pretty interesting $60 gadget.
Gary
--
Gary
www.BuildItSolar.com
gary@BuildItSolar.com
"Build It Yourself" Solar Projects
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