Alternative Power sources - Yamaha EF2400 Gen. for Furnace

Author

Yamaha EF2400 Gen. for Furnace

Phil

2006-01-17, 10:21 pm

I have followed the ongoing tale of Mr. Wizard about his furnace problem,
seems to have the patience needed to solve problems, I to have been a Ham
operator for many years and you just have to dig both feet in and do it,
that's it.
I wired my furnace almost exactly as the Wizard did except that my
receptacle is inside the front panel , very easy to access and works the
same way as his, 3 wire plug with Hot , Neutral and Gnd. all in the proper
place, read his articles before I had my Inverter Gen. set up, was concerned
that I would have the same problem , got the Yamaha running and after
plugging several low priced items into the unit, I decided to try the my new
High Tech Furnace, hooked it to a 100 ft. extension cord and away it went ,
no problem , very happy about that , only ran it for 30 min., no real test
but it looks to be OK .
From what I read , it seems like he has solved his problem , it still
leaves me with the question as to what is going on , the old 4000 watt
Porter Cable that sits in my garage , does have the Neutral and Gnd. hooked
together inside the Gen. as it came from the factory , my new Yamaha has the
Neut. and Gnd. isolated, at least in the static mode , I will take a reading
off that area the next time it's started , Wizard says he is developing
electrical potential between N. and Gnd. , will be interested in finding out
how mine is, it looks like his furnace works OK as long as no potential
exist on the Gnd. wire , he says it works with Gnd. disconnected at the
furnace , works with Gnd. shunted to Neut. at the Gen. , works with .1 uf.
cap at the Gen. , apparently the newer flame sensors are very touchy , am
also wondering if the Honda and Yamaha inverter's are both based on the same
technology , the Wizard must be having inductive coupling along the Gnd.
path , shorting Gnd. or bypass with cap. seems to clear it up , hope
everything works OK , including the world.
Phil

Mr Wizzard

2006-01-19, 1:21 am

Phil, this is an excelent summary, and you captured the
entire saga 100% spot on. So lets compare notes here.

First off, 30 minutes is a *very* fair test. Appears that the
logic in my furnace control unit activates the flame sensor
just after the hot surface ignightor shuts off which is under
one minute, so if your flame sensor didn't kick out after the
H.S.I. shut off, you have verified that its Ok. My furnace
is a York Diamond 80 which is about 7 years old. Looking
at it, and working with other peoples furnaces, its identical
to similar "contractor grade" Payne, and Trane brand machines.
(minor difference being spirial H.S.I. verses the "Z" shape one.

On the leakage from N to ground (and Hot to ground), it is
enough to half-light a medium sized Neon bulb, so if you
can, can you run your Yammy with nothing else pluged in,
and connect a Neon bulb (with proper resistor) between
N and Grn, (and Hot to Grn). You may not have a medium
sized Neion bulb like I have (I collect em), so use a regular
pilot lamp, night night, so some sort of decorative neon bulb.
I'd like to see if you got any leakage on yer new Yammy. I
measured mine, and its a perfect sine wave at 172Vac P-P
(84v RMS) with no load. I'll measure the current that shuts
to ground as soon as I find my Tektronix current probe.

Also, can you tell me what make furnace you have? (and age)

Also, how/where did you get that new Yammy? - all the
web sites I see says it won't be available till June 06. Looks
like a dandy, noise spec is the same as the Honda, and its
rated for 2,000 watts (cont), whereas the Honda Eu2000i
is rated 1,600 watts cont. Yammy is quite a bit heavier than
the Honda, and watta per dollar, the Yamma seems a bit
more expensive which doesn't bother me, but the weight
does. But no big, looks like a nice. fine unit.

I'm a ham too (Advanced class with a 1x3 "N4" call).
Used to be very active on HF (CW) when I lived in
Miami, now in the NortWest (and wanting to get back
on HF (phone that is) want to play on 80 meters etc.

thanks Phil, looking forward to your reply.

"Phil" <pdl@imaginenet.net> wrote in message
news:dqk4k302i2e@enews2.newsguy.com...
> I have followed the ongoing tale of Mr. Wizard about his furnace problem,
> seems to have the patience needed to solve problems, I to have been a Ham
> operator for many years and you just have to dig both feet in and do it,
> that's it.
> I wired my furnace almost exactly as the Wizard did except that my
> receptacle is inside the front panel , very easy to access and works the
> same way as his, 3 wire plug with Hot , Neutral and Gnd. all in the proper
> place, read his articles before I had my Inverter Gen. set up, was
concerned
> that I would have the same problem , got the Yamaha running and after
> plugging several low priced items into the unit, I decided to try the my
new
> High Tech Furnace, hooked it to a 100 ft. extension cord and away it went
,
> no problem , very happy about that , only ran it for 30 min., no real test
> but it looks to be OK .
> From what I read , it seems like he has solved his problem , it still
> leaves me with the question as to what is going on , the old 4000 watt
> Porter Cable that sits in my garage , does have the Neutral and Gnd.
hooked
> together inside the Gen. as it came from the factory , my new Yamaha has
the
> Neut. and Gnd. isolated, at least in the static mode , I will take a
reading
> off that area the next time it's started , Wizard says he is developing
> electrical potential between N. and Gnd. , will be interested in finding
out
> how mine is, it looks like his furnace works OK as long as no potential
> exist on the Gnd. wire , he says it works with Gnd. disconnected at the
> furnace , works with Gnd. shunted to Neut. at the Gen. , works with .1 uf.
> cap at the Gen. , apparently the newer flame sensors are very touchy , am
> also wondering if the Honda and Yamaha inverter's are both based on the
same
> technology , the Wizard must be having inductive coupling along the Gnd.
> path , shorting Gnd. or bypass with cap. seems to clear it up , hope
> everything works OK , including the world.
> Phil
>
>

Phil

2006-01-19, 9:21 pm

I'm an Advanced also , W8--- ,Used to like 40 and 80 but now I only use 2 m,
my furnace is a Carrier 58MVP , had it installed in 20003 , has all the
fancy gadgets on the thing , PC board with fault LED lights and the igniter
is the hot surface type , looks like a mini stove element , the furnace man
mentioned that the orientation on electric hook up with respect to Gnd. was
very important , he is not very well versed on the electrical part of the
furnace , did say that Flame Sensor was touchy as it either changes
resistance or I think he said that it acts as a rectifier when heat is
applied , I have a spare sensor , will have to experiment sometime .
I bought my Yamaha from Wise sales off e- bay , price had been 1,119.00 with
free shipping , I waited for 2 weeks and price went to 1,149.00, hard to win
, I don't RV but looked up some of their pages and most people said Wise was
the lowest priced , Gen. came through in perfect condition and again no
shipping or tax here in Ohio.
They say the Yah. weighs 65 # , with 1.6 gal. of gas , it makes a load on my
back , plan to build a dolly with large wheels on it so I can roll it around
, looked at the Honda and the Kipor and finally decided on the Yah. , the
thing is supposed to hold at 3000 watts for 10 second , long enough to start
a slightly heavy load I will do some test on the thing the next time I run
it , will get back to you , I , like yourself wanted something guilt to
run a few necessities , think this will do the job , I can use noisy Gen.
for 220 v. items , good luck .
Amish Phil
"Mr Wizzard" <wiz@muffy-mail.com> wrote in message
news:VuWdnakarKfmhVLeRVn-qA@comcast.com...
> Phil, this is an excelent summary, and you captured the
> entire saga 100% spot on. So lets compare notes here.
>
> First off, 30 minutes is a *very* fair test. Appears that the
> logic in my furnace control unit activates the flame sensor
> just after the hot surface ignightor shuts off which is under
> one minute, so if your flame sensor didn't kick out after the
> H.S.I. shut off, you have verified that its Ok. My furnace
> is a York Diamond 80 which is about 7 years old. Looking
> at it, and working with other peoples furnaces, its identical
> to similar "contractor grade" Payne, and Trane brand machines.
> (minor difference being spirial H.S.I. verses the "Z" shape one.
>
> On the leakage from N to ground (and Hot to ground), it is
> enough to half-light a medium sized Neon bulb, so if you
> can, can you run your Yammy with nothing else pluged in,
> and connect a Neon bulb (with proper resistor) between
> N and Grn, (and Hot to Grn). You may not have a medium
> sized Neion bulb like I have (I collect em), so use a regular
> pilot lamp, night night, so some sort of decorative neon bulb.
> I'd like to see if you got any leakage on yer new Yammy. I
> measured mine, and its a perfect sine wave at 172Vac P-P
> (84v RMS) with no load. I'll measure the current that shuts
> to ground as soon as I find my Tektronix current probe.
>
> Also, can you tell me what make furnace you have? (and age)
>
> Also, how/where did you get that new Yammy? - all the
> web sites I see says it won't be available till June 06. Looks
> like a dandy, noise spec is the same as the Honda, and its
> rated for 2,000 watts (cont), whereas the Honda Eu2000i
> is rated 1,600 watts cont. Yammy is quite a bit heavier than
> the Honda, and watta per dollar, the Yamma seems a bit
> more expensive which doesn't bother me, but the weight
> does. But no big, looks like a nice. fine unit.
>
> I'm a ham too (Advanced class with a 1x3 "N4" call).
> Used to be very active on HF (CW) when I lived in
> Miami, now in the NortWest (and wanting to get back
> on HF (phone that is) want to play on 80 meters etc.
>
> thanks Phil, looking forward to your reply.
>
>
>
>
>
> "Phil" <pdl@imaginenet.net> wrote in message
> news:dqk4k302i2e@enews2.newsguy.com...
> concerned
> new
> ,
> hooked
> the
> reading
> out
> same
>
>

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