Alternative Power sources - Re: Energy Worries In Ontario Canada? RESULTS

Author

Re: Energy Worries In Ontario Canada? RESULTS

2006-01-21, 1:21 pm

RoughRider wrote:
> My recording equipment observed the voltage go down from 242 to 235V between
> 17h30 and 19h30. This is only a 3% reduction.

I'd be wondering where the reduction occurred; one would think that the
only voltage they can control is on the big mains. The smaller
transformers, I *think*, and correct me if I'm wrong, are "dumb
technology" and cannot be dialed down except physically. I'd be
wondering if it was the 600v mains or higher that were brought down,
and the smaller ones did their best to spit out the voltages they are
designed for. ie, Hydro brought the 600v down to 570, and the "dumb"
600-240 transformers tried to do their job and make 240 out of what
they had to work with, which might have been 570...

> Any way to post graphics onto this newsgroup? I'd like to post the actual
> graph of the event.

And there are binary groups as well for this purpose I think...

DJ

daestrom

2006-01-21, 2:21 pm

"DJ" <dj_macintyre@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137862445.108269.226780@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> RoughRider wrote:
>
> I'd be wondering where the reduction occurred; one would think that the
> only voltage they can control is on the big mains. The smaller
> transformers, I *think*, and correct me if I'm wrong, are "dumb
> technology" and cannot be dialed down except physically. I'd be
> wondering if it was the 600v mains or higher that were brought down,
> and the smaller ones did their best to spit out the voltages they are
> designed for. ie, Hydro brought the 600v down to 570, and the "dumb"
> 600-240 transformers tried to do their job and make 240 out of what
> they had to work with, which might have been 570...
>

Apparently you don't understand how a 'dumb' transformer works. It has no
voltage sensors, it is a strict ratio device. If 600V in gets you 240V out,
then 570V in will get you 570*(240/600) = 228V out.

But there are larger substations with load-tap changers that *will* adjust
for variations in input voltage. These devices are set locally and are not
under the direct control of the system operator. So they *would* adjust
their turns ratio to try and compensate. Such devices also have a time
delay built into them to avoid excessive stepping back and forth when a
large surge takes place.

Perhaps the test was more to see how industrial and other high-voltage
customer loads would vary with voltage. Not those downstream of
regulators/tap-changers, but the high power consumers that draw right from
the higher distribution voltages.

daestrom

>
> And there are binary groups as well for this purpose I think...
>
> DJ
>

Solar Flare

2006-01-21, 3:21 pm

In pur town we have all the variations. Some are
directly off the 5% voltage reduced tapchangers and
some are downstream behind and uncontrollable
tapchanger that would always give them "nominal"
voltage to their house or industry.

Then we have those remote customers that only get 95
volts when the weather is cold anyway. Any load
reduction probably increases their voltage. Good
"off-grid" cases thogh...LOL

"DJ" <dj_macintyre@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137867931.498129.88510@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> daestrom wrote:
>
transformer works. It has no[color=darkred]
600V in gets you 240V out,[color=darkred]
>
> I do know that, I didn't mean "iron core" dumb, I
just meant
> "non-electrically programmable by the utility control
room"dumb. My
> mistake for not being clear.
>
changers that *will* adjust[color=darkred]
set locally and are not[color=darkred]
So they *would* adjust[color=darkred]
devices also have a time[color=darkred]
back and forth when a[color=darkred]
>
> Smaller versions of THOSE type I'm familiar with.
Alot of scientific
> instrumentation I've worked on required those to make
an absolute
> output with varying input. Usually they tended to be
a rock-steady 240
> output from 208-ish input. So they would "try" to
make 240 all the
> time, whatever the building mains did, and if the
mains didn't vary
> overmuch, they did it.
>
other high-voltage[color=darkred]
downstream of[color=darkred]
consumers that draw right from[color=darkred]
>
> My thinking as well, poorly put by me. The industrial
work I used to do
> usually involved stuff like 4kV turbine air
compressors and the like.
> I'd have to figure that the utility doesn't output
240v, so if the OP
> was monitoring it, it had been through a few
stepdowns before getting
> to him.
>
> DJ
>

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