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Home > Archive > Alternative Power sources > November 2006 > Inverter Charger & Charge Controller Coordination
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Inverter Charger & Charge Controller Coordination
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| lovingit69@gmail.com 2006-11-13, 5:25 pm |
| Hi there...have another question for you all.
I have a Trace 3024 inverter which contains a charger. Connected to the
system I also have a Plasmatronics PL20 Charger Controller for the PV
array.
Both the inverter charger and the PL20 features overlap to a large
degree so am I right in saying the following:
a) All the settings relating to the charging functions on the inverter
apply only when there are AC loads applied to it.
b) All the settings relating to the charging functions on the charge
controller apply only when there are DC loads.
Am I missing something here? How do the two integrate?
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| On 13 Nov 2006 14:32:49 -0800, lovingit69@gmail.com wrote:
>Hi there...have another question for you all.
>
>I have a Trace 3024 inverter which contains a charger. Connected to the
>system I also have a Plasmatronics PL20 Charger Controller for the PV
>array.
>
>Both the inverter charger and the PL20 features overlap to a large
>degree so am I right in saying the following:
>
>a) All the settings relating to the charging functions on the inverter
>apply only when there are AC loads applied to it.
>b) All the settings relating to the charging functions on the charge
>controller apply only when there are DC loads.
>
>Am I missing something here? How do the two integrate?
They're completely independent. You do have to consider some limited
scenarios where they might conflict. For instance, when the generator
is charging through the inverter, the PV controller may limit PV
current because it sees the battery voltage rising. So you would
likely set the charge voltages slightly higher on the PV controller.
The idea is to have the PV do as much work as possible, so in
practice, you would probably only ever run the generator until the
batteries reach the inverter's bulk voltage limit. Of course if for
whatever reason you haven't gotten a finish charge for some time, then
you might want to do it with the generator even if that means running
it many hours at part load. If by any chance the PV controller is
configured with a dump load (unlikely unless you have a wind
generator), then consider that settings would need to be tweaked to
prevent the controller from dumping power from the inverter's charger.
Wayne
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| Derek Broughton 2006-11-14, 9:25 am |
| lovingit69@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi there...have another question for you all.
>
> I have a Trace 3024 inverter which contains a charger. Connected to the
> system I also have a Plasmatronics PL20 Charger Controller for the PV
> array.
>
> Both the inverter charger and the PL20 features overlap to a large
> degree so am I right in saying the following:
>
> a) All the settings relating to the charging functions on the inverter
> apply only when there are AC loads applied to it.
If I understand what you're saying, and the Trace works like my Outback, all
the settings relating to charging functions apply only when there are AC
_sources_ applied to it. It just reverses the current flow from the usual.
> b) All the settings relating to the charging functions on the charge
> controller apply only when there are DC loads.
Again, DC _sources_.
--
derek
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| Bughunter 2006-11-14, 5:25 pm |
| The common point of integration is the battery.
Both your inverters built-in charger, and your charge controller operate
based upon what they see as the condition of your batteries in terms of
their voltage and the current they will accept. Some charge controllers and
some inverter/chargers are smarter than others. None that I know of interact
through separate communications ports.
Your inverter must have AC inputs from a generator or AC mains to charge.
It will charge if the voltage on your batteries indicate that they need a
charge. (it may also look at acceptance current)
Your PV charge controller works in similar ways, except it gets it input to
charge from the PV array.
Now, if you are running your generator mid day, when there is also sun, your
PV charge controller will see the increased voltage from your inverters
charger (to the battery) and will back off, thinking that the battery is
full. It really has no way of knowing of the voltage is from full batteries
or from the inverters charger. Now, if you inverters charger sees increased
voltage on the battery as a result of input from the PV charge controller,
it might back off a bit thinking that the batteries are already charged. It
depends on how smart your inverter is.
In my experience (on my system SW4048, C40), the inverters charger typically
wins, and you see a charge as a result of the inverter rather than the PV
even if there is full sun. So, if I run my generator during the day, I'll
see very little amp hours accumulate from the PV even if there was good sun.
In essence, I have lost some free solar charging because my generator was
doing that job. The two do not seem to be additive.
The two charge controllers have no way of cooperating other than looking at
the current and voltage of the batteries. (there is no communications
interface between the two)
For this reason, it is better to run you inverters charger when you are not
collecting sun power. Finish charging (those last few amp hours to fill your
batteries) runs in the most inefficient range of a generator. So, it is
preferable to bulk charge with a generator, and do a long finish charge with
PV.
That's my understanding of the interactions. I may be wrong. Different
charge controllers and inverter/chargers may behave differently.
I decide when to run my generator with this in mind. If my batteries need a
bulk charge, and it does not look like enough sun time to have the PV do it,
I'll fire up the generator. I may also fire up the generator when I have
increased loads, such as in the evening with lights and TV, or when I need
to do wash, run high draw electrical tools. I may not complete the charge,
but let the PV finish it the next day if there is sun.
I like to keep my battery bank above 70% full and get itchy to run the
generator if it is not there, especially if I am looking at any extended
period without sun. I hope to error towards extended battery bank life. But,
you have to be patient and wait for that free sun power. If you get itchy to
run the generator too quickly, you loose the free stuff.
<lovingit69@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1163457169.381667.143250@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi there...have another question for you all.
>
> I have a Trace 3024 inverter which contains a charger. Connected to the
> system I also have a Plasmatronics PL20 Charger Controller for the PV
> array.
>
> Both the inverter charger and the PL20 features overlap to a large
> degree so am I right in saying the following:
>
> a) All the settings relating to the charging functions on the inverter
> apply only when there are AC loads applied to it.
> b) All the settings relating to the charging functions on the charge
> controller apply only when there are DC loads.
>
> Am I missing something here? How do the two integrate?
>
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| sylvan butler 2006-11-20, 8:25 pm |
| On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 23:15:44 GMT, Bughunter <nobody@home.net> wrote:
> In my experience (on my system SW4048, C40), the inverters charger typically
> wins, and you see a charge as a result of the inverter rather than the PV
> even if there is full sun. So, if I run my generator during the day, I'll
> see very little amp hours accumulate from the PV even if there was good sun.
> In essence, I have lost some free solar charging because my generator was
> doing that job. The two do not seem to be additive.
Yup. Of course, you could reverse that if you wanted. Just set the PV
controller (the C40) to a higher voltage or reduce the voltage on the
inverter-charger. The one with the lower voltage will taper off first.
Of course, if you do this you will be running your generator at reduced
load and probably reduced efficiency. The way you are now, if you
choose to run the expensive genny, it will get the most out of it.
> For this reason, it is better to run you inverters charger when you are not
> collecting sun power. Finish charging (those last few amp hours to fill your
> batteries) runs in the most inefficient range of a generator. So, it is
> preferable to bulk charge with a generator, and do a long finish charge with
> PV.
I'd agree.
> That's my understanding of the interactions. I may be wrong. Different
> charge controllers and inverter/chargers may behave differently.
Yup.
> you have to be patient and wait for that free sun power. If you get itchy to
> run the generator too quickly, you loose the free stuff.
Yeah, but sometimes if the batts are low and the day starts off cloudy
and is expected to remain that way, I'll run the genny just to get the
batts up to where hopefully the limited PV can top them off.
sdb
--
Wanted: Omnibook 800 & accessories, cheap, working or not
sdbuse1 on mailhost bigfoot.com
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