|
Home > Archive > Alternative Power sources > November 2006 > BEWARE ZILLER ELECTRIC!!
You are viewing an archived Text-only version of the thread.
To view this thread in it's original format and/or if you want to reply to
this thread please [click here]
| Author |
BEWARE ZILLER ELECTRIC!!
|
|
|
| I recently purchased a 16KW aluminum generator from Ziller Electric. I
came home from work to meet the shipper and inspected the package...
cardboard, pallet, etc all looked fine. We carefully placed the pallet
in my garage and I returned to work. About a week later I decided to
do an inventory in order to make plans for installation. After lifting
the cardboard cover and inspecting the internals, I walk to the rear
and find that the rear panel is pushed in exactly where the flex
conduit is stored during shipment. Something obviously pushed on the
rear of the unit and dented the panel and two of the air louvers.
I called Ziller twice and left voicemail both times. After not
receiving a return call, I called a third time and, upon speaking with
their manager, was immediately told that "I had signed for it". I
asked for a replacement or someone to come replace the panel and was
basically told to take it up with the shipper. I started to get upset
at this point and the manager actually started laughing at me on the
phone. Nice customer service.
I honestly wouldn't expect anyone to completely unpack a 500 lb
generator while the shipper is sitting in the driveway but that's
Ziller's stance. I'm in the process of taking this up with both my
credit card company and Generac so we'll see what happens.
| |
| RicodJour 2006-11-20, 5:25 pm |
|
Nate wrote:
> I recently purchased a 16KW aluminum generator from Ziller Electric. I
> came home from work to meet the shipper and inspected the package...
> cardboard, pallet, etc all looked fine. We carefully placed the pallet
> in my garage and I returned to work. About a week later I decided to
> do an inventory in order to make plans for installation. After lifting
> the cardboard cover and inspecting the internals, I walk to the rear
> and find that the rear panel is pushed in exactly where the flex
> conduit is stored during shipment. Something obviously pushed on the
> rear of the unit and dented the panel and two of the air louvers.
>
> I called Ziller twice and left voicemail both times. After not
> receiving a return call, I called a third time and, upon speaking with
> their manager, was immediately told that "I had signed for it". I
> asked for a replacement or someone to come replace the panel and was
> basically told to take it up with the shipper. I started to get upset
> at this point and the manager actually started laughing at me on the
> phone. Nice customer service.
>
> I honestly wouldn't expect anyone to completely unpack a 500 lb
> generator while the shipper is sitting in the driveway but that's
> Ziller's stance. I'm in the process of taking this up with both my
> credit card company and Generac so we'll see what happens.
You do realize that Usenet complaints such as yours often come across
as whining, don't you? You didn't mention whether the damage was
functional (didn't sound like it) or purely cosmetic. If it's purely
cosmetic, and it's the rear panel, are you actually financially injured
or are you upset that someone laughed at you?
As far as the shipping, if you sign for something you are essentially
saying that you've accepted it. It is not your responsibility to worry
about the shipper's time schedule. Here's how it works: delivery,
inspect package, open package, inspect contents, sign delivery receipt.
If you feel that you unjustly delayed the driver, then throw the
driver some beer money.
If there is a delivery and I can't fully inspect it before signing, I
write "Uninspected package, conditionally accepted, all rights
reserved", and I don't sign on the line where they want you to sign as
there's usually boilerplate acceptance terms there. I'll cross them
out and hand the receipt back to the driver. Once you've crossed the
thing out and signed it, it's not really his problem any more - it's
the company's problem. he can't write up a anew receipt, so what's he
going to do. Be polite at all times, it's unlikely that it's the
driver's fault unless you saw them drop the package at your place. If
he starts raising a bit of a ruckus about the non standard signature,
throw him some beer money.
And stop whining on Usenet. It's unseemly.
R
| |
|
| RicodJour wrote:
> Nate wrote:
>
> You do realize that Usenet complaints such as yours often come across
> as whining, don't you? You didn't mention whether the damage was
> functional (didn't sound like it) or purely cosmetic. If it's purely
> cosmetic, and it's the rear panel, are you actually financially injured
> or are you upset that someone laughed at you?
>
> As far as the shipping, if you sign for something you are essentially
> saying that you've accepted it. It is not your responsibility to worry
> about the shipper's time schedule. Here's how it works: delivery,
> inspect package, open package, inspect contents, sign delivery receipt.
> If you feel that you unjustly delayed the driver, then throw the
> driver some beer money.
>
> If there is a delivery and I can't fully inspect it before signing, I
> write "Uninspected package, conditionally accepted, all rights
> reserved", and I don't sign on the line where they want you to sign as
> there's usually boilerplate acceptance terms there. I'll cross them
> out and hand the receipt back to the driver. Once you've crossed the
> thing out and signed it, it's not really his problem any more - it's
> the company's problem. he can't write up a anew receipt, so what's he
> going to do. Be polite at all times, it's unlikely that it's the
> driver's fault unless you saw them drop the package at your place. If
> he starts raising a bit of a ruckus about the non standard signature,
> throw him some beer money.
>
> And stop whining on Usenet. It's unseemly.
>
> R
Perhaps you should consider not being an arrogant XXX on Usenet when
someone is trying to prevent an unfortunate incident from happening to
someone else. FYI, I've never seen a freight company hang around while
an entire shipment is unpacked, uncrated, and inspected.
| |
|
|
"Nate" <nnord@maxitd.com> wrote in message
news:1164050680.705015.270460@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I recently purchased a 16KW aluminum generator from Ziller Electric. I
> came home from work to meet the shipper and inspected the package...
> cardboard, pallet, etc all looked fine. We carefully placed the pallet
> in my garage and I returned to work. About a week later I decided to
> do an inventory in order to make plans for installation. After lifting
> the cardboard cover and inspecting the internals, I walk to the rear
> and find that the rear panel is pushed in exactly where the flex
> conduit is stored during shipment. Something obviously pushed on the
> rear of the unit and dented the panel and two of the air louvers.
>
> I called Ziller twice and left voicemail both times. After not
> receiving a return call, I called a third time and, upon speaking with
> their manager, was immediately told that "I had signed for it".
must have been damaged while in your custody because shipper has a signed
delivery receipt saying it was ok when left with you. maybe your insurance
will cover it happening on your property.
> I
> asked for a replacement or someone to come replace the panel and was
> basically told to take it up with the shipper. I started to get upset
> at this point and the manager actually started laughing at me on the
> phone. Nice customer service.
>
> I honestly wouldn't expect anyone to completely unpack a 500 lb
> generator while the shipper is sitting in the driveway but that's
> Ziller's stance. I'm in the process of taking this up with both my
> credit card company and Generac so we'll see what happens.
>
| |
| Doug Miller 2006-11-20, 5:25 pm |
| In article <1164052634.321632.208100@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>, "Nate" <nnord@maxitd.com> wrote:
>Perhaps you should consider not being an arrogant XXX on Usenet when
>someone is trying to prevent an unfortunate incident from happening to
>someone else.
Too bad you didn't work harder at preventing that unfortunate incident from
happening to you.
>FYI, I've never seen a freight company hang around while
>an entire shipment is unpacked, uncrated, and inspected.
I'm guessing that's probably because you make a habit of signing for
deliveries before you inspect them, just as you did in the case you describe.
I *have* seen them hang around, because my habit is to inspect first, and sign
only after doing so *and* noting any problems I find. They don't really have
much choice, you know: they cannot in any way compel me to sign the papers
before I'm ready to do so, and they're not supposed to leave without a
signature. So what are they going to do?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
| |
| RicodJour 2006-11-20, 5:25 pm |
| Nate wrote:
>
> Perhaps you should consider not being an arrogant XXX on Usenet when
> someone is trying to prevent an unfortunate incident from happening to
> someone else. FYI, I've never seen a freight company hang around while
> an entire shipment is unpacked, uncrated, and inspected.
Sorry I can't join you in your self pity fest, Gnat. It's not my fault
you signed without inspecting the shipment, and it most likely isn't
Ziller's fault as the damage probably happened during shipping. So,
ultimately, where does the fault lie? With you. Try not signing next
time until you're satisfied. They'll wait around.
Damage during shipping is the responsibility of the shipper. Believe
it or not, they actually carry _insurance_ for it! How come you didn't
whine...err, sorry....try to prevent an unfortunate incident with the
shipper from happening to someone else?
R
| |
| Karl S 2006-11-20, 5:25 pm |
| On 20 Nov 2006 11:24:40 -0800, Nate wrote:
> I recently purchased a 16KW aluminum generator from Ziller Electric. I
> came home from work to meet the shipper and inspected the package...
> cardboard, pallet, etc all looked fine. We carefully placed the pallet
> in my garage and I returned to work. About a week later I decided to
> do an inventory in order to make plans for installation. After lifting
> the cardboard cover and inspecting the internals, I walk to the rear
> and find that the rear panel is pushed in exactly where the flex
> conduit is stored during shipment. Something obviously pushed on the
> rear of the unit and dented the panel and two of the air louvers.
>
You inspect it when you receive it and find nothing wrong, sign for it,
ignore it for a week and then find something wrong. After all this time
has passed you call Ziller and want a replacement? I think you are asking
too much.
| |
| Edwin Pawlowski 2006-11-20, 5:25 pm |
|
"Nate" <nnord@maxitd.com> wrote in message
> upon speaking with
> their manager, was immediately told that "I had signed for it". I
> asked for a replacement or someone to come replace the panel and was
> basically told to take it up with the shipper. I started to get upset
> at this point and the manager actually started laughing at me on the
> phone. Nice customer service.
>
> I honestly wouldn't expect anyone to completely unpack a 500 lb
> generator while the shipper is sitting in the driveway but that's
> Ziller's stance. I'm in the process of taking this up with both my
> credit card company and Generac so we'll see what happens.
Why are you not taking it up with the carrier? They are the ones
responsible and they have insurance to cover damaged goods. While the Ziller
guy may have been bad mannered, he is correct. It is your responsibility to
contact the carrier and make a claim. Some companies will go the extra mile
to help you, but they have no obligation to do so.
That said, you should have opened the crate the same or next day. Waiting a
week does make it more difficult to get you point across. How can you prove
it was not banged in your garage?
| |
| Vaughn Simon 2006-11-20, 5:25 pm |
|
"Nate" <nnord@maxitd.com> wrote in message
news:1164050680.705015.270460@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> I honestly wouldn't expect anyone to completely unpack a 500 lb
> generator while the shipper is sitting in the driveway but that's
> Ziller's stance. I'm in the process of taking this up with both my
> credit card company and Generac so we'll see what happens.
File a concealed damage claim with the shipping company. You are correct,
no shipper has time to stand there while you open and inspect every shipment.
Concealed damage claims are a normal thing. That said, If you did not buy extra
insurance, the shipper may have very limited liability in the matter.
Vaughn
>
| |
| Malcolm Hoar 2006-11-20, 5:25 pm |
| In article <13e3fzx9s0j2w$.168qngt3bz0tz.dlg@40tude.net>, Karl S <karlsch@-no-spam-ak.net> wrote:
>On 20 Nov 2006 11:24:40 -0800, Nate wrote:
>
>You inspect it when you receive it and find nothing wrong, sign for it,
>ignore it for a week and then find something wrong. After all this time
>has passed you call Ziller and want a replacement? I think you are asking
>too much.
Perhaps. The OP should check the actual policies with his
shipper and the carrier.
In many cases, the signature at delivery serves only as
confirmation that the package was delivered and appears
intact.
Many shippers specfically provide a grace period (often
two days) during which time you need to open the packaging,
inspect the contents and report any problems.
In my (limited) experience this is *very* common, even
normal. However, not many suppliers give a full week
for this task. As I recall, one generally has two days.
--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| malch@malch.com Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| |
|
|
Malcolm Hoar wrote:
> In article <13e3fzx9s0j2w$.168qngt3bz0tz.dlg@40tude.net>, Karl S <karlsch@-no-spam-ak.net> wrote:
>
> Perhaps. The OP should check the actual policies with his
> shipper and the carrier.
>
> In many cases, the signature at delivery serves only as
> confirmation that the package was delivered and appears
> intact.
>
> Many shippers specfically provide a grace period (often
> two days) during which time you need to open the packaging,
> inspect the contents and report any problems.
>
> In my (limited) experience this is *very* common, even
> normal. However, not many suppliers give a full week
> for this task. As I recall, one generally has two days.
>
> --
> |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
> | Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
> | malch@malch.com Gary Player. |
> | http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Appreciate the constructive input. I actually did a quick inspection
that night but didn't get around behind the generator. I also assumed
that anything strong enough to damage the generator would have damaged
the cardboard. I never took into consideration the cardboard could be
pushed, appear to be undamaged, but the soft aluminum housing would be
damaged. I definitely could have avoided this by completely unpacking
but I still would not expect to be treated the way I was by Ziller.
| |
|
|
Nate wrote:
> I recently purchased a 16KW aluminum generator from Ziller Electric. I
> came home from work to meet the shipper and inspected the package...
> cardboard, pallet, etc all looked fine. We carefully placed the pallet
> in my garage and I returned to work. About a week later I decided to
> do an inventory in order to make plans for installation. After lifting
> the cardboard cover and inspecting the internals, I walk to the rear
> and find that the rear panel is pushed in exactly where the flex
> conduit is stored during shipment. Something obviously pushed on the
> rear of the unit and dented the panel and two of the air louvers.
>
> I called Ziller twice and left voicemail both times....
>
> I honestly wouldn't expect anyone to completely unpack a 500 lb
> generator while the shipper is sitting in the driveway but that's
> Ziller's stance. I'm in the process of taking this up with both my
> credit card company and Generac so we'll see what happens.
You're barking up the wrong tree here. It's the shipper you should
file the claim against and you _certainly_ should have looked long
before a week went by. Unfortunately, by not noting on the ticket the
inspection was external crate condition only, you _may_ have some
difficulty in making the claim for hidden damages, but that's still
what you must do. And, again, by having waited for over a week by now,
you certainly haven't made your chances of getting satisfaction any
better.
Whatever, it _isn't_ Ziller's responsibility although it is nice when a
vendor does go the extra mile to file the freight damage claim for you
as many will. I don't know who Ziller is, but I'm guessing it may have
been a case of you found the cheapest internet source you could find
and now are surprised they aren't the most helpful in service. There's
usually a reason for a vendor who is cheaper than some alternatives
being that way...
| |
| kellyj00@gmail.com 2006-11-20, 5:25 pm |
| Thanks for the tips fellas, I didn't know that signing for a package
meant anything more than you recieved it.
I'll be sure to check anything I sign for for damage. Who cares if it
puts the delivery guy out a bit...it'll put him out a lot more later
when he has to come pick it up as part of a concealed damage issue.
| |
| Doug Miller 2006-11-20, 5:25 pm |
| In article <1164056684.034529.196840@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>, "kellyj00@gmail.com" <kellyj00@gmail.com> wrote:
>Thanks for the tips fellas, I didn't know that signing for a package
>meant anything more than you recieved it.
Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't -- lesson is READ WHAT YOU'RE SIGNING.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
| |
|
| On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:08:28 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:
>In article <1164056684.034529.196840@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>, "kellyj00@gmail.com" <kellyj00@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't -- lesson is READ WHAT YOU'RE SIGNING.
And know when not to sign to sign and have to company take the items
back.
We went to put in some 25 interior doors. At first site, I ask what
happened? "They fell off the fork lift". "Who signed?" was my next
question.
The company did make good on the damaged doors for the customer, but
it still caused a night-mare.
--
Oren
"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."
| |
| barry@sme-online.com 2006-11-20, 5:25 pm |
|
Nate wrote:
> RicodJour wrote:
>
> Perhaps you should consider not being an arrogant XXX on Usenet when
> someone is trying to prevent an unfortunate incident from happening to
> someone else. FYI, I've never seen a freight company hang around while
> an entire shipment is unpacked, uncrated, and inspected.
Lighten up. Maybe you didn't read the whole thing, eh? Seems not.
J
| |
| Tekkie® 2006-11-20, 8:25 pm |
| Nate posted for all of us...
>
> Perhaps you should consider not being an arrogant XXX on Usenet when
> someone is trying to prevent an unfortunate incident from happening to
> someone else. FYI, I've never seen a freight company hang around while
> an entire shipment is unpacked, uncrated, and inspected.
>
You are a fundy dufus.
--
Tekkie Don't bother to thank me, I do this as a public service.
| |
| Eeyore 2006-11-20, 8:25 pm |
|
Nate wrote:
> I recently purchased a 16KW aluminum generator from Ziller Electric. I
> came home from work to meet the shipper and inspected the package...
> cardboard, pallet, etc all looked fine. We carefully placed the pallet
> in my garage and I returned to work. About a week later I decided to
> do an inventory in order to make plans for installation. After lifting
> the cardboard cover and inspecting the internals, I walk to the rear
> and find that the rear panel is pushed in exactly where the flex
> conduit is stored during shipment. Something obviously pushed on the
> rear of the unit and dented the panel and two of the air louvers.
>
> I called Ziller twice and left voicemail both times. After not
> receiving a return call, I called a third time and, upon speaking with
> their manager, was immediately told that "I had signed for it". I
> asked for a replacement or someone to come replace the panel and was
> basically told to take it up with the shipper. I started to get upset
> at this point and the manager actually started laughing at me on the
> phone. Nice customer service.
>
> I honestly wouldn't expect anyone to completely unpack a 500 lb
> generator while the shipper is sitting in the driveway but that's
> Ziller's stance. I'm in the process of taking this up with both my
> credit card company and Generac so we'll see what happens.
THE GOLDEN RULE
If you haven't inspected a package write *uninspected* by your name when signing
for it.
Graham
| |
|
| On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 00:06:13 +0000, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
>THE GOLDEN RULE
>
>If you haven't inspected a package write *uninspected* by your name when signing
>for it.
>
>Graham
Date it 2020 (on the signature), while you are at it. Mail your bills
in with a lacking signature and a wrong zip code for the addressee
Somebody will figure it out.
--
Oren
"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."
| |
| Gym Bob 2006-11-20, 8:25 pm |
| I was burned by SC Solar from South Carolina on a similiar issue. They
sold me insurance (phoney) on the product also and the shipping
carrier does not offer insurance as an option.
Then I was convinced to ship the damaged panel back for credit and the
owner then sold all his stock to another owner and won't talk about
it. Now I am out the cost of returning it and the cost of the panel,
not to mention the taxes coming into Canada. I have no proof of
returning it for the tax credit either.
Yup SC Solar ripped me off for a broken solar panel. For all I know it
was shipped that way.
Big lesson, open the packages, if necessary and mark it on the
paperwork, at the point of first touching it.
"Nate" <nnord@maxitd.com> wrote in message
news:1164050680.705015.270460@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I recently purchased a 16KW aluminum generator from Ziller Electric.
>I
> came home from work to meet the shipper and inspected the package...
> cardboard, pallet, etc all looked fine. We carefully placed the
> pallet
> in my garage and I returned to work. About a week later I decided
> to
> do an inventory in order to make plans for installation. After
> lifting
> the cardboard cover and inspecting the internals, I walk to the rear
> and find that the rear panel is pushed in exactly where the flex
> conduit is stored during shipment. Something obviously pushed on
> the
> rear of the unit and dented the panel and two of the air louvers.
>
> I called Ziller twice and left voicemail both times. After not
> receiving a return call, I called a third time and, upon speaking
> with
> their manager, was immediately told that "I had signed for it". I
> asked for a replacement or someone to come replace the panel and was
> basically told to take it up with the shipper. I started to get
> upset
> at this point and the manager actually started laughing at me on the
> phone. Nice customer service.
>
> I honestly wouldn't expect anyone to completely unpack a 500 lb
> generator while the shipper is sitting in the driveway but that's
> Ziller's stance. I'm in the process of taking this up with both my
> credit card company and Generac so we'll see what happens.
>
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
| |
|
|
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <1164056684.034529.196840@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>, "kellyj00@gmail.com" <kellyj00@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't -- lesson is READ WHAT YOU'RE SIGNING.
....
Amen to the latter, but virtually always a motor freight delivery form
states "received in good condition" or similar so unless you make
notations to the contrary.
| |
| Neon John 2006-11-21, 3:25 am |
| On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 20:21:34 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net>
wrote:
>Why are you not taking it up with the carrier? They are the ones
>responsible and they have insurance to cover damaged goods. While the Ziller
>guy may have been bad mannered, he is correct. It is your responsibility to
>contact the carrier and make a claim. Some companies will go the extra mile
>to help you, but they have no obligation to do so.
As a trucker, maybe I can add some info to this.
If this was delivered by motor freight carrier (not UPS, etc), then
the freight carrier's only liability is to deliver an intact package,
that is, the outer package/wrapping/crate is undamaged. If there is
no damage to the outer package then they have no liability. Internal
damage is between the shipper and the consignee (the customer).
I almost never do LTL (less than truckload, what the drivers that drop
crates off at your back door do) but I've been to class on the
procedures. I do not have to wait around for the consignee to inspect
the internals of the shipment. In fact, I'm told not to. If the
consignee refuses to sign for the shipment, I simply write on the bill
of lading "signature refused" and send the same message on the
Qualcomm (the satellite system most trucks have nowadays).
Though the industry has been partially deregulated, many regulations
remain. According to my company, the above relationship is one of the
regulated areas so it will be the same with any motor freight carrier.
Package services like UPS and Fedex fall under different rules.
>
>That said, you should have opened the crate the same or next day. Waiting a
>week does make it more difficult to get you point across. How can you prove
>it was not banged in your garage?
Precisely. Even if he opened the crate on the spot, as long as the
outside isn't damaged, it's not the carrier's problem.
I suspect that the root of this is that Nate got on the phone and was
an officious prick and the guy at Ziller told him to FO. His whiny
all-caps subject line says loads. Speaking as a businessman, we try
not to ever have to tell a customer to FO but sometimes we run into
someone who is so unreasonable that it's better to cut bait and take
the loss.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
| |
| RicodJour 2006-11-21, 3:25 am |
| Neon John wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 20:21:34 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> As a trucker, maybe I can add some info to this.
>
> If this was delivered by motor freight carrier (not UPS, etc), then
> the freight carrier's only liability is to deliver an intact package,
> that is, the outer package/wrapping/crate is undamaged. If there is
> no damage to the outer package then they have no liability. Internal
> damage is between the shipper and the consignee (the customer).
>
> I almost never do LTL (less than truckload, what the drivers that drop
> crates off at your back door do) but I've been to class on the
> procedures. I do not have to wait around for the consignee to inspect
> the internals of the shipment. In fact, I'm told not to. If the
> consignee refuses to sign for the shipment, I simply write on the bill
> of lading "signature refused" and send the same message on the
> Qualcomm (the satellite system most trucks have nowadays).
>
> Though the industry has been partially deregulated, many regulations
> remain. According to my company, the above relationship is one of the
> regulated areas so it will be the same with any motor freight carrier.
> Package services like UPS and Fedex fall under different rules.
>
> Precisely. Even if he opened the crate on the spot, as long as the
> outside isn't damaged, it's not the carrier's problem.
>
> I suspect that the root of this is that Nate got on the phone and was
> an officious prick and the guy at Ziller told him to FO. His whiny
> all-caps subject line says loads. Speaking as a businessman, we try
> not to ever have to tell a customer to FO but sometimes we run into
> someone who is so unreasonable that it's better to cut bait and take
> the loss.
Thanks for the perspective from the other side of the lift gate, John.
It sounds as if each particular trucking company has some latitude in
how they handle delivery. In my experience I've never had a trucker
refuse to wait and split without getting a signature. I assumed that
they couldn't do that. Then again, I've never refused to sign unless I
found. You make it sound cut and dried about determining who is
responsible for the damage based on the exterior of the package. Maybe
it is, but I've had times where it was unclear whether the package got
damaged and then the contents, and other times the contents were packed
poorly and damaged the packaging. That must be a frustrating
experience - attempting to deliver a damaged shipment that you _know_
is going to be refused. I always considered the signature a bit of a
formality anyway, because no identification is required and the
signatures are frequently scrawled, so I guess that would take some of
the starch out of the formality.
Maybe I never had a guy leave without a signature because I respect the
time pressure the driver (or anyone working for a living) is under, so
I hustle to make it a quick but thorough inspection. If I have to pop
open a crate, I won't let the driver's schedule push me to accept
something that I shouldn't. It's my money on the line and I have far
more to lose than a few minutes of the driver's time. If I feel it
took me longer to inspect than it should have I'll drop some cash on
the driver - and I've never gotten anything other than a thank you.
R
| |
| Windsun 2006-11-21, 1:25 pm |
| It was your responsibility to check for damage upon delivery. You apparently
did not do that.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Nate" <nnord@maxitd.com> wrote in message
news:1164050680.705015.270460@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I recently purchased a 16KW aluminum generator from Ziller Electric. I
> came home from work to meet the shipper and inspected the package...
> cardboard, pallet, etc all looked fine. We carefully placed the pallet
| |
| Neon John 2006-11-21, 5:25 pm |
| On 20 Nov 2006 22:44:47 -0800, "RicodJour" <ricodjour@worldemail.com>
wrote:
>Thanks for the perspective from the other side of the lift gate, John.
You're most welcome.
>It sounds as if each particular trucking company has some latitude in
>how they handle delivery. In my experience I've never had a trucker
>refuse to wait and split without getting a signature. I assumed that
>they couldn't do that.
A driver can leave without a signature. Unless there are other means
of delivery verification such as UPS's barcode readers, it can become
a "he said, she said" situation. We try not to do that if at all
possible. Speaking only for myself, of course, I go out of my way to
satisfy customers. That's where repeat business comes from, after
all. OTOH, there is always that one customer who cannot be pleased
and who can spoil a whole week.
A major factor on the patience level of the driver is his quota and
his pay method. Many (most? Not terribly familiar with that side)
"City" drivers are paid hourly or on salary. Over-the-road drivers
like myself are paid by the mile. We don't get paid while sitting
still. Fortunately we OTR drivers rarely have to do "CITY" work. The
only time I've had to do it was when the company just flat didn't have
any freight were I was and offered me a day of city work. It's an
ill-fit because OTR trailers don't have lift gates, hand carts and the
like.
>Maybe I never had a guy leave without a signature because I respect the
>time pressure the driver (or anyone working for a living) is under, so
>I hustle to make it a quick but thorough inspection. If I have to pop
>open a crate, I won't let the driver's schedule push me to accept
>something that I shouldn't. It's my money on the line and I have far
>more to lose than a few minutes of the driver's time. If I feel it
>took me longer to inspect than it should have I'll drop some cash on
>the driver - and I've never gotten anything other than a thank you.
A few years ago I bought a hotrod electric scooter from a company who
shall remain un-named cuz they eventually made things right. It came
packaged in a sturdy plywood crate - but was held down inside the
crate with friggin' lawn chair webbing! Of course the webbing broke
forthwith and the scooter bounced around, spoiling the paint, breaking
the throttle pot and a few other minor items.
The LTL company who delivered the thing said (correctly) "Crate is
intact, not our problem." I don't know if the shipper had insurance
or if they ate the loss. In any event, I emailed photos of the damage
and they replaced the damaged parts and refunded me enough money to
get the thing painted.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
| |
| no spam 2006-11-22, 1:25 pm |
| > Perhaps you should consider not being an arrogant XXX on Usenet when
> someone is trying to prevent an unfortunate incident from happening to
> someone else. FYI, I've never seen a freight company hang around while
> an entire shipment is unpacked, uncrated, and inspected.
I have, they tend to "hang around" until you sign for what ever they are
shipping. You might have one upset driver but if you explain to him you are
just trying to protect yourself he'll usually understand.
| |
| Charlie Morgan 2006-11-22, 1:25 pm |
| On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 15:44:48 GMT, "no spam" <no@spam.net> wrote:
>
>
>I have, they tend to "hang around" until you sign for what ever they are
>shipping. You might have one upset driver but if you explain to him you are
>just trying to protect yourself he'll usually understand.
>
I think it's fair to make them wait around if the shipment looks like
it's been obviously damaged from the outside. I don't think they are
reasonably obligated to hang around while you check the contents if
the outer package appears okay.
That's why the "concealed damage" clause exists. Concealed damage,
even if discovered while the shipper is standing there, will usually
require an inspector to determine whether the damage is due to poor
packing, or severe handling. Waiting 3 weeks to open the shipment,
however, is nothing short of stupid.
CWM
|
|
|
|
|