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Home > Archive > Alternative Power sources > December 2006 > Double pane vs Triple pane windows upgrade
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Double pane vs Triple pane windows upgrade
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| drydem 2006-12-07, 9:25 am |
| How much more efficent is Triple pane windows vs Double pane windows?
I'm interested in how one might estimate the energy savings if one
upgrading from double to triple pane windows in the Washington DC Area.
Thanks.
Walter
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| Ecnerwal 2006-12-07, 9:25 am |
| In article <1165494373.964604.96490@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com>,
"drydem" <walter_lee@my-deja.com> wrote:
> How much more efficent is Triple pane windows vs Double pane windows?
>
> I'm interested in how one might estimate the energy savings if one
> upgrading from double to triple pane windows in the Washington DC Area.
>
> Thanks.
> Walter
RESFEN
look it up, download it, stuff in the numbers and location, read the
results.
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
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| Solar Flare 2006-12-07, 9:25 pm |
| Good luck finding them. In this area they are non-existent because
they didn't sell. You may have to lift them to open the windows too.
The Low-E with gas were more efficient and cheaper and stocked.
"drydem" <walter_lee@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1165494373.964604.96490@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
> How much more efficent is Triple pane windows vs Double pane
> windows?
>
> I'm interested in how one might estimate the energy savings if one
> upgrading from double to triple pane windows in the Washington DC
> Area.
>
> Thanks.
> Walter
>
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| clare at snyder.on.ca 2006-12-08, 3:25 am |
| On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 21:32:22 -0500, "Solar Flare"
<solaerfart@hootmail.invalidated> wrote:
>Good luck finding them. In this area they are non-existent because
>they didn't sell. You may have to lift them to open the windows too.
>The Low-E with gas were more efficient and cheaper and stocked.
>
>"drydem" <walter_lee@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>news:1165494373.964604.96490@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
>
Triple pane are certainly not common, and from what I remember of my
window days, LOW E Argon double glazed are slightly better than the
best non-gas-filled triple glazed units.
You want sealed units with the thermal-break separators, not the
aluminum ones, and constructed with the 2 or 3 sealant method, not the
simple urethane. Vinyl framed windows with the Rehau profile
extrusions are about the best you can get.Last better than wood, and
every bit as good insulation value.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| bowgus 2006-12-08, 1:25 pm |
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drydem wrote:
> How much more efficent is Triple pane windows vs Double pane windows?
>
> I'm interested in how one might estimate the energy savings if one
> upgrading from double to triple pane windows in the Washington DC Area.
>
> Thanks.
> Walter
Google ... glass R-value ... let's say about R2.5 vs R1.6. You would
probably do better by turning the thermostat down 1 degree.
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| On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 21:32:22 -0500, "Solar Flare"
<solaerfart@hootmail.invalidated> wrote:
>"drydem" <walter_lee@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>news:1165494373.964604.96490@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
>
>Good luck finding them.
They were readily available 10 years ago when I built.
> In this area they are non-existent because
>they didn't sell.
How do you know that they're "non-existent" in your area? Did you poll
all the builders or owners of new homes in your area? Of course not,
you just made up your declaration as usual.
> You may have to lift them to open the windows too.
>The Low-E with gas were more efficient and cheaper and stocked.
Baloney. Triple glazed windows are most often coated and filled just
like dual pane, and perform better. See page 3 and 4 here
http://windows.lbl.gov/pub/selectingwindows/window.pdf.
Wayne
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| I just went through this in my home. The window rep thought I was a bit
eccentric (and I probably am), but sold them to me anyway and I'd never
go back.
I purchased Canadian Loewen windows, as the fit and finish were vastly
better than any of the mainstream brands (Pella, Anderson,
Weathershield, Kolbe) that I looked at. No comparison.
As for energy efficiency, I replaced all the North facing windows in
the house with their Triples, which are low-e, argon filled. In
addition, I redid a sunroom in all custom sized Loewen triples to
minimize heat gain in summer and keep it comfy in the winter.
To the South, I installed double glazed, to provide a bit more solar
heating capacity.
Pricewise, the Loewens are comparable to the other windows. This will
depend on your distributor, of course. In my area, they were less
expensive than some of the other options.
I'm in PA, which is about 10F colder than DC. Even here, the triples
are "excessive", but I'm trying to squeeze out the n'th degree. In your
climate, you're going to find that, in all likelihood, the savings for
the triples vs. the doubles doesn't make financial sense.
Numerically, the Loewen HP3 (top of the line triples), have a U value
of 0.21, close to R5. The HP1, (double glazed, w/argon and thermal
spacers) have a U value of 0.30. So, simplistically, 100 sq. ft.,
facing north, on a 30F day, 70F indoors, will lose 100*40*0.21 = 840
BTU/hour while the HP1 will lose 100*40*0.30=1200BTU/h
In DC, you get about 4500HDD annually, so your guestimated energy loss
is:
4500 * 24 * 100 * 0.21 = 2.268 million BTU for the HP3, and
4500 * 24 * 100 * 0.30 = 3.240 million BTU for the HP1
Difference = 972,000 BTU.
ROUGHLY speaking, an oil boiler will give 100,000 BTU/gallon of oil, so
this all translates into a saving of 10 gallons of oil during the
heating season. So what's that, $22-$30 per year per 100 sq. feet of
north facing window.
This is all back of the envelope, and I may have botched a calculation
somewhere. As others noted, check out RESFEN...
good luck.
drydem wrote:
> How much more efficent is Triple pane windows vs Double pane windows?
>
> I'm interested in how one might estimate the energy savings if one
> upgrading from double to triple pane windows in the Washington DC Area.
>
> Thanks.
> Walter
| |
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| > How much more efficent is Triple pane windows vs Double pane windows?
>
> I'm interested in how one might estimate the energy savings if one
> upgrading from double to triple pane windows in the Washington DC Area.
Triple pane has a higher R value than the equivalent double pane, but you
run into the law of diminishing returns. Going form single to double pane
is a much bigger boost in insulation than going from double to triple pane.
A better (and cheaper) idea is the use of insulating shutters or covers on
the windows at night. Applied inside is easier to put in place, but applied
outside keeps the glass warmer and thus reduces condensation problems.
Another possibility is the return of the old "storm window" idea, that is,
adding an additional exterior pane of glass to the existing double pane
windows. That would be cheaper than replacing them with triple panes, and
is almost as effective.
CM
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| Also another factor to consider is the air space between the sheets of
glass. The bigger the space the more effective the insulation factor, at
least within the range of separator sizes that are offered by the
manufacturers. To avoid complaints; I am aware that excessive space is
counter productive.
Many window manufacturers supply 1/2" or smaller air gap, as it will fit
their frame profiles easier. Larger air gap may not be offered.
"drydem" <walter_lee@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1165494373.964604.96490@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
> How much more efficent is Triple pane windows vs Double pane windows?
>
> I'm interested in how one might estimate the energy savings if one
> upgrading from double to triple pane windows in the Washington DC Area.
>
> Thanks.
> Walter
>
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