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Home > Archive > Alternative Power sources > December 2006 > what is the most efficient bathroom heater
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what is the most efficient bathroom heater
|
|
| fcrumpler@cityofsunrise.org 2006-12-13, 5:25 pm |
| I am "off grid" in Tennessee and it gets cold in the mountains! I want
to be able to step out of the shower and stand in front of a "heating
device" while I towel off and dress. Five minutes maximum usage.
Local area only. 110VAC device.
The question:
Would some sort of quartz lamp type of heater be the most efficient?
| |
| Eeyore 2006-12-13, 5:25 pm |
|
fcrumpler@cityofsunrise.org wrote:
> I am "off grid" in Tennessee and it gets cold in the mountains! I want
> to be able to step out of the shower and stand in front of a "heating
> device" while I towel off and dress. Five minutes maximum usage.
> Local area only. 110VAC device.
> The question:
> Would some sort of quartz lamp type of heater be the most efficient?
Any source of radiant heat such as a quartz heater will likely do the job.
Graham
| |
| Eeyore 2006-12-13, 5:25 pm |
|
fcrumpler@cityofsunrise.org wrote:
> I am "off grid" in Tennessee and it gets cold in the mountains! I want
> to be able to step out of the shower and stand in front of a "heating
> device" while I towel off and dress. Five minutes maximum usage.
> Local area only. 110VAC device.
> The question:
> Would some sort of quartz lamp type of heater be the most efficient?
Re my other reply.
All electric heating is equally *efficient* as in power out = power in.
What you want is *effective* heating that get the heat to *you* best. Efficiency
is not part of that equation although the term is often misused like that.
Graham
| |
|
|
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:458073A0.6EBB9871@hotmail.com...
>
>
> fcrumpler@cityofsunrise.org wrote:
>
>
> Any source of radiant heat such as a quartz heater will likely do the job.
>
I think a small oil filled heater would work better. It would work like
rocks around a camp fire..assorbing escaping heat to help provide more
warmth.
While quartz lamp would not do that.
> Graham
>
| |
| Eeyore 2006-12-13, 8:25 pm |
|
Trent wrote:
> "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> I think a small oil filled heater would work better. It would work like
> rocks around a camp fire..assorbing escaping heat to help provide more
> warmth.
Simple myths for simpletons.
> While quartz lamp would not do that.
What utter nonsense.
Trying to get warm by heating the air is not very effective.
Graham
| |
|
|
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:45809AC5.3EB9D80E@hotmail.com...
>
>
> Trent wrote:
>
>
> Simple myths for simpletons.
>
>
>
> What utter nonsense.
>
> Trying to get warm by heating the air is not very effective.
>
> Graham
What an 'intelligent' reply.
congrats..another looney to PLONK
>
| |
| Solar Flare 2006-12-13, 8:25 pm |
| I thought that radiant lamp theory went out the window with hooped
skirts.
There nothing better than getting out of the shower soaking wet and
having a heat lamp on one side while freeing on the other side. You
will learn to do ballet spins quickly though and then learn to "spin
dry".
"Trent" <nunyaspam@spam.net> wrote in message
news:Dq1gh.43041$qp1.18612@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>
> "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:45809AC5.3EB9D80E@hotmail.com...
> What an 'intelligent' reply.
>
> congrats..another looney to PLONK
>
| |
| Eeyore 2006-12-13, 8:25 pm |
|
Solar Flare wrote:
> I thought that radiant lamp theory went out the window with hooped
> skirts.
>
> There nothing better than getting out of the shower soaking wet and
> having a heat lamp on one side while freeing on the other side. You
> will learn to do ballet spins quickly though and then learn to "spin
> dry".
The guy's *off grid*.
Didn't you read that ?
I suspect his idea of comfort is 'relative'. Radiant heat is the best way of
heating *you* rather than your surroundings.
Graham
| |
|
|
<fcrumpler@cityofsunrise.org> wrote in message
news:1166045646.454741.114450@t46g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I am "off grid" in Tennessee and it gets cold in the mountains! I want
> to be able to step out of the shower and stand in front of a "heating
> device" while I towel off and dress. Five minutes maximum usage.
> Local area only. 110VAC device.
> The question:
> Would some sort of quartz lamp type of heater be the most efficient?
>
I would suggest you close the door, let the steam build up while you are
having a shower and turn on a small de-humidifier that takes some of that
huge quantiity of latent heat and converts it to the heat of compression.
That means it rejects the heat from the condenser and offers it up to the
space. With the minimal of electrical energy, you can move 3 times the
latent heat and convert it to sensible heat, which you would greatly
appreciate as you step out of the shower. when you have 360 degree heat
surrounding you , you're in heaven.
Jack
| |
| somebody@somewhere.com 2006-12-13, 9:25 pm |
| On 13 Dec 2006 13:34:06 -0800, fcrumpler@cityofsunrise.org wrote:
>I am "off grid" in Tennessee and it gets cold in the mountains! I want
>to be able to step out of the shower and stand in front of a "heating
>device" while I towel off and dress. Five minutes maximum usage.
>Local area only. 110VAC device.
>The question:
>Would some sort of quartz lamp type of heater be the most efficient?
Why use AC? Would a small catalytic heater be better suited to the
job?
| |
| Neon John 2006-12-13, 9:25 pm |
| On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 00:01:47 GMT, "Trent" <nunyaspam@spam.net> wrote:
>
>"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:458073A0.6EBB9871@hotmail.com...
>I think a small oil filled heater would work better. It would work like
>rocks around a camp fire..assorbing escaping heat to help provide more
>warmth.
>While quartz lamp would not do that.
Did you even bother to read his post before replying? He wants
something that gets hot fast, works for a short period and is then
turned off. A quartz lamp heater is perfect for that. He stated
clearly that he's "off grid" so wasting electricity for the hour it
takes to heat up an oil heater is not practical. A hot oil heater
would be about the WORST heater one could come up with for this
application. Duh!
Back to the original question.
When you pick the quartz heater, make sure you get the type that has
quartz lamps in them. This type comes on instantly. The other type
has nichrome windings inside a quartz tube. It radiates just as well
but takes several minutes to come up to temperature.
That said, were I in your situation I'd be looking at a catalytic
propane heater such as the Olympic brand made for RVs. It lights
instantly and outputs its full radiant flux in seconds. The catalytic
fabric has no thermal inertia so it cools about as rapidly. A 100 lb
tank of propane would probably last you all winter, maybe two.
I have a smaller version (Coleman Black Cat) here in my 18-wheeler
sleeper to knock the chill off in the AM. I tunnel an arm out from
under the electric blanket :-) light the thing off and in a couple of
minutes, get up. By then the whole face of the thing is glowing a
dull red and kicking out buckets of heat.
I think that a Black Cat would be a bit small for your application but
one of the Olympics would be spot-on.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
| |
| Solar Flare 2006-12-14, 3:25 am |
| Usually illegal to run a non-vented unit inside a house.
The black-cat warns you not to do this without a 6 square inch
ventilation hole to the outside. Very dangerous and you could
experience long term brain damage from the CO.
"Neon John" <no@never.com> wrote in message
news:gvf1o212ooln33qi9rsjqnaneisjjtbsoa@4ax.com...
> That said, were I in your situation I'd be looking at a catalytic
> propane heater such as the Olympic brand made for RVs. It lights
> instantly and outputs its full radiant flux in seconds. The
> catalytic
> fabric has no thermal inertia so it cools about as rapidly. A 100
> lb
> tank of propane would probably last you all winter, maybe two.
>
> I have a smaller version (Coleman Black Cat) here in my 18-wheeler
> sleeper to knock the chill off in the AM. I tunnel an arm out from
> under the electric blanket :-) light the thing off and in a couple
> of
> minutes, get up. By then the whole face of the thing is glowing a
> dull red and kicking out buckets of heat.
>
> I think that a Black Cat would be a bit small for your application
> but
> one of the Olympics would be spot-on.
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.neon-john.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
| |
| Solar Flare 2006-12-14, 3:25 am |
| Get a 1500W hairdryer with a stand and turn it on, pointing at you,
while you dry.
<fcrumpler@cityofsunrise.org> wrote in message
news:1166045646.454741.114450@t46g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I am "off grid" in Tennessee and it gets cold in the mountains! I
>want
> to be able to step out of the shower and stand in front of a
> "heating
> device" while I towel off and dress. Five minutes maximum usage.
> Local area only. 110VAC device.
> The question:
> Would some sort of quartz lamp type of heater be the most efficient?
>
| |
|
| The average IQ in the group keeps dropping
"Neon John" <no@never.com> wrote in message
news:gvf1o212ooln33qi9rsjqnaneisjjtbsoa@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 00:01:47 GMT, "Trent" <nunyaspam@spam.net> wrote:
>
>
> Did you even bother to read his post before replying? He wants
> something that gets hot fast, works for a short period and is then
> turned off. A quartz lamp heater is perfect for that. He stated
> clearly that he's "off grid" so wasting electricity for the hour it
> takes to heat up an oil heater is not practical. A hot oil heater
> would be about the WORST heater one could come up with for this
> application. Duh!
>
> Back to the original question.
>
> When you pick the quartz heater, make sure you get the type that has
> quartz lamps in them. This type comes on instantly. The other type
> has nichrome windings inside a quartz tube. It radiates just as well
> but takes several minutes to come up to temperature.
>
> That said, were I in your situation I'd be looking at a catalytic
> propane heater such as the Olympic brand made for RVs. It lights
> instantly and outputs its full radiant flux in seconds. The catalytic
> fabric has no thermal inertia so it cools about as rapidly. A 100 lb
> tank of propane would probably last you all winter, maybe two.
>
> I have a smaller version (Coleman Black Cat) here in my 18-wheeler
> sleeper to knock the chill off in the AM. I tunnel an arm out from
> under the electric blanket :-) light the thing off and in a couple of
> minutes, get up. By then the whole face of the thing is glowing a
> dull red and kicking out buckets of heat.
>
> I think that a Black Cat would be a bit small for your application but
> one of the Olympics would be spot-on.
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.neon-john.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
| |
| somebody@somewhere.com 2006-12-14, 3:25 am |
| On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:37:57 -0500, "Solar Flare"
<solaerfart@hootmail.invalidated> wrote:
>Usually illegal to run a non-vented unit inside a house.
>The black-cat warns you not to do this without a 6 square inch
>ventilation hole to the outside. Very dangerous and you could
>experience long term brain damage from the CO.
Oh Chris..., gimmie a break. Running one in a bathroom for five
minutes ain't goinna toast your brain, and cat heaters don't put out
CO. They do deplete oxygen.
| |
|
|
|
| Patton "Thermal Wave" model WM-950 works fine for me,
inexpensive and it has thermostat. Turn it on about 10
minutes before the shower. It has 3 heat settings and a
thermostat. I worked on a ship and used it just for that
purpose for years, and now use it at home. You can
mount it freestanding or on a wall, I just use it freestanding.
The fellow is right about quartz, roast on one side, freeze on
the other. Heat the air for comfort, worth a dime or so
in electricity for a pleasant shower.
Jim
On 13 Dec 2006 13:34:06 -0800, fcrumpler@cityofsunrise.org wrote:
>I am "off grid" in Tennessee and it gets cold in the mountains! I want
>to be able to step out of the shower and stand in front of a "heating
>device" while I towel off and dress. Five minutes maximum usage.
>Local area only. 110VAC device.
>The question:
>Would some sort of quartz lamp type of heater be the most efficient?
| |
|
|
<somebody@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:emf1o2ts10gh63clr6c308knpji4qlc12c@4ax.com...
> On 13 Dec 2006 13:34:06 -0800, fcrumpler@cityofsunrise.org wrote:
>
>
> Why use AC? Would a small catalytic heater be better suited to the
> job?
Actually I'm not sure what a catylitic heater is. Are there emissions to be
concerned with?
Jack
>
| |
| Solar Flare 2006-12-14, 8:25 pm |
| Now it's Chris?...LOL
It is still illegal in most places in North America to have unvented
fuel burning appliances. Break yourself.
<somebody@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:mek1o25bjge5n7fo0otiujv9osogfnofh5@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:37:57 -0500, "Solar Flare"
> <solaerfart@hootmail.invalidated> wrote:
>
>
> Oh Chris..., gimmie a break. Running one in a bathroom for five
> minutes ain't goinna toast your brain, and cat heaters don't put out
> CO. They do deplete oxygen.
>
| |
| Solar Flare 2006-12-14, 9:25 pm |
| Stupid idea and based on total ignorance of reality. You need some
fresh air or oxygen replacement to breathe in a shower. Anybody that
has actually tried this will tell you that will become drowsy in a few
minutes for lack of oxygen. Now before you start writing code,
calculating the oxygen quantities in the stall, remember the human
needs are greater than 17% oxygen content to stay conscious and the
air typically starts about 21.7%. The high humidity and heat aggravate
the problem to the human body.
The concept applies, just not to the seal off extent.
<nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu> wrote in message
news:elraud$ch4@acadia.ece.villanova.edu...
> Then again, we have
>
> http://www.sunfrost.com/efficient_shower.html
>
> Nick
>
| |
| clare at snyder.on.ca 2006-12-14, 9:25 pm |
| On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 21:22:20 -0500, "Solar Flare"
<solaerfart@hootmail.invalidated> wrote:
>Now it's Chris?...LOL
>
>It is still illegal in most places in North America to have unvented
>fuel burning appliances. Break yourself.
>
><somebody@somewhere.com> wrote in message
>news:mek1o25bjge5n7fo0otiujv9osogfnofh5@4ax.com...
>
Buck Stove's Appalachian stove - UV30 is unvented. Made in Greenwood
South Carolina.
Vanguard has this to say about their "vent fre" heater: "Are design
certified by the International Approval Services (IAS) to
the national safety standard (ANSI Z21.11.2)"
from: http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q...+gas+heat&meta=
"WHAT ARE UNVENTED OR VENT-FREE GAS PRODUCTS?
"
"Vent-free gas heating products are available in many designs for
varied applications, personal tastes, and price points (or retails
costs). When installed they are fixed (not portable) installations
fueled by either natural or propane gas, determined by the primary
heating fuel of the home. They are available in many heat outputs
(6,000-40,000 Btu/hr) and are used as supplemental heat in conjunction
with the primary heat source of the home, i.e. the central heating
system/furnace. Consumers now have the choice of manual, thermostatic
and remote controls that are available for most designs.
"
"Vent-free gas heating product designs include slim/rectangular
heaters that hang on the wall or are attached to the floor and are
available in infrared or convection burner systems. These heaters
were the first "new generation" vent-free gas products introduced in
1980. During the last twelve years, vent-free technology has been
adapted to a variety of hearth products including gas logs that are
installed in existing masonry or manufactured fireplaces or vent-free
fireboxes; fireplace systems that are installed against or recessed
into a wall and trimmed out with a mantel; stoves available in "retro'
cast iron designs that have porcelain or painted finish, or are in a
more modern sheet metal configuration; and finally inserts that recess
into existing fireplaces and are trimmed out with a metal surround
that extends over the fireplace opening.
"
"ARE THERE SAFETY REQUIREMENTS?
"
"Every vent-free gas product marketed in the U.S. today, regardless of
the size, shape, appearance, hat output, or price, has been approved
by a recognized listing agency. This involves testing to a rigorous
safety standard, in this case ANSI Z21.11.2. But what does that mean
to the average consumer? The American national Standards Institute
(ANSI) oversees a process for the development and constant upgrades of
safety standards for virtually every class of home appliance available
in the marketplace. Every manufacturer must submit their designs for
sting to the applicable standard by an independent laboratory.
"
"UL is often the agency testing electrical products whereas gas
appliances are generally tested by CSA or ITS. Whether we're talking
about a furnace, water heater, toaster, barbeque grill…or vent-free
gas product, the ANSI safety standards process applies and is the
first line of safety defense for the consumer. The ANSI standard for
vent-free gas products is a document of 119 pages, and includes 33
separate tests that each product must successfully pass before
approval to be marketed."
So, NO, US law does NOT require all combustion appliances to be
vented.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
| |
| Neon John 2006-12-14, 9:25 pm |
| On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:37:57 -0500, "Solar Flare"
<solaerfart@hootmail.invalidated> wrote:
>Usually illegal to run a non-vented unit inside a house.
>The black-cat warns you not to do this without a 6 square inch
>ventilation hole to the outside. Very dangerous and you could
>experience long term brain damage from the CO.
No it's not. The Black Cat emits zero CO as indicated by my
industrial CO instrument capable of measuring to 0.01PPM. It IS, in
fact, designed for indoor use.
I use the Black Cat in my semi truck cab. The NightHawk CO detector
(resolution 1PPM) also in my cab indicates zero CO.
Same for the Olympic heaters. They're designed for unvented use in
RVs, far less air space than in a house.
You simply don't know what you're talking about. Especially in the
context of operating the thing for 5 minutes at a time.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
| |
| Neon John 2006-12-14, 9:25 pm |
| On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 23:26:13 -0500, somebody@somewhere.com wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:37:57 -0500, "Solar Flare"
><solaerfart@hootmail.invalidated> wrote:
>
>
>Oh Chris..., gimmie a break. Running one in a bathroom for five
>minutes ain't goinna toast your brain, and cat heaters don't put out
>CO. They do deplete oxygen.
Unless you have an exceptionally air-tight, practically hermetically
sealed house, even that isn't a consideration.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
| |
| Neon John 2006-12-14, 9:25 pm |
| Man, you're on a stupid roll tonight, ain'tcha? First the CO thing
and then the "illegal" unvented appliance thing and now this. Yet,
like the energizer bunny, you just keep posting and posting and
posting....
Funny thing is, I've had a shower like that for >30 years in my
mountain home. It doesn't have any fancy name or a web site to
promote it. I had it built that way to cut down the humidity in the
rest of the bathroom. A very common architecture.
I doubt that it'll do this guy any good, however, unless he wants to
dress in the shower stall.
john
On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 21:27:30 -0500, "Solar Flare"
<solaerfart@hootmail.invalidated> wrote:
>Stupid idea and based on total ignorance of reality. You need some
>fresh air or oxygen replacement to breathe in a shower. Anybody that
>has actually tried this will tell you that will become drowsy in a few
>minutes for lack of oxygen. Now before you start writing code,
>calculating the oxygen quantities in the stall, remember the human
>needs are greater than 17% oxygen content to stay conscious and the
>air typically starts about 21.7%. The high humidity and heat aggravate
>the problem to the human body.
>
>The concept applies, just not to the seal off extent.
>
><nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu> wrote in message
>news:elraud$ch4@acadia.ece.villanova.edu...
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
| |
| somebody@somewhere.com 2006-12-14, 9:25 pm |
| On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 17:43:05 -0600, "Jack" <Joe@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
><somebody@somewhere.com> wrote in message
>news:emf1o2ts10gh63clr6c308knpji4qlc12c@4ax.com...
>
>Actually I'm not sure what a catylitic heater is. Are there emissions to be
>concerned with?
>
>Jack
Yeah, when you post about their usefulness, solar flare will start
emitting smelly hot air. :-)
Catalytic heaters (no open flame - combustion through the aid of a
catalyst) don't make carbon monoxide. The products are heat, water,
and carbon dioxide.
Nick could probably crunch numbers if you gave him the size of your
bathroom. If you have a space at the bottom of the door and crack
open the window it wouldn't matter anyway.
>
| |
| ronwagn 2006-12-15, 3:25 am |
| What about kerosene heaters?
somebody@somewhere.com wrote:[color=darkred]
> On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 17:43:05 -0600, "Jack" <Joe@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>
> Yeah, when you post about their usefulness, solar flare will start
> emitting smelly hot air. :-)
>
> Catalytic heaters (no open flame - combustion through the aid of a
> catalyst) don't make carbon monoxide. The products are heat, water,
> and carbon dioxide.
>
> Nick could probably crunch numbers if you gave him the size of your
> bathroom. If you have a space at the bottom of the door and crack
> open the window it wouldn't matter anyway.
| |
| Eeyore 2006-12-15, 3:25 am |
|
ronwagn wrote:
> What about kerosene heaters?
What about them ?
Graham
please don't top-post btw.
| |
| clare at snyder.on.ca 2006-12-15, 3:25 am |
| On 14 Dec 2006 19:33:00 -0800, "ronwagn" <psychrn7n@yahoo.com> wrote:
>What about kerosene heaters?
Most of them smell. The fuel definitely does.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
| |
| Solar Flare 2006-12-15, 3:25 am |
| They are approved by CSA here also but they are still not allowed to
be installed in a home unvented.
<clare at snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:jv14o2dc77aburo44tlo5bu7bcd7apjbrs@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 21:22:20 -0500, "Solar Flare"
> <solaerfart@hootmail.invalidated> wrote:
>
>
> Buck Stove's Appalachian stove - UV30 is unvented. Made in Greenwood
> South Carolina.
> Vanguard has this to say about their "vent fre" heater: "Are design
> certified by the International Approval Services (IAS) to
> the national safety standard (ANSI Z21.11.2)"
>
>
> from: http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q...+gas+heat&meta=
>
> "WHAT ARE UNVENTED OR VENT-FREE GAS PRODUCTS?
> "
> "Vent-free gas heating products are available in many designs for
> varied applications, personal tastes, and price points (or retails
> costs). When installed they are fixed (not portable) installations
> fueled by either natural or propane gas, determined by the primary
> heating fuel of the home. They are available in many heat outputs
> (6,000-40,000 Btu/hr) and are used as supplemental heat in
> conjunction
> with the primary heat source of the home, i.e. the central heating
> system/furnace. Consumers now have the choice of manual,
> thermostatic
> and remote controls that are available for most designs.
> "
> "Vent-free gas heating product designs include slim/rectangular
> heaters that hang on the wall or are attached to the floor and are
> available in infrared or convection burner systems. These heaters
> were the first "new generation" vent-free gas products introduced in
> 1980. During the last twelve years, vent-free technology has been
> adapted to a variety of hearth products including gas logs that are
> installed in existing masonry or manufactured fireplaces or
> vent-free
> fireboxes; fireplace systems that are installed against or recessed
> into a wall and trimmed out with a mantel; stoves available in
> "retro'
> cast iron designs that have porcelain or painted finish, or are in a
> more modern sheet metal configuration; and finally inserts that
> recess
> into existing fireplaces and are trimmed out with a metal surround
> that extends over the fireplace opening.
> "
> "ARE THERE SAFETY REQUIREMENTS?
> "
> "Every vent-free gas product marketed in the U.S. today, regardless
> of
> the size, shape, appearance, hat output, or price, has been approved
> by a recognized listing agency. This involves testing to a rigorous
> safety standard, in this case ANSI Z21.11.2. But what does that
> mean
> to the average consumer? The American national Standards Institute
> (ANSI) oversees a process for the development and constant upgrades
> of
> safety standards for virtually every class of home appliance
> available
> in the marketplace. Every manufacturer must submit their designs
> for
> sting to the applicable standard by an independent laboratory.
> "
> "UL is often the agency testing electrical products whereas gas
> appliances are generally tested by CSA or ITS. Whether we're
> talking
> about a furnace, water heater, toaster, barbeque grill.or vent-free
> gas product, the ANSI safety standards process applies and is the
> first line of safety defense for the consumer. The ANSI standard
> for
> vent-free gas products is a document of 119 pages, and includes 33
> separate tests that each product must successfully pass before
> approval to be marketed."
>
>
> So, NO, US law does NOT require all combustion appliances to be
> vented.
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>
| |
| Solar Flare 2006-12-15, 3:25 am |
| I have a Black Cat and you better read the instructions that came with
it. I am sure you are complying with a leaky truck cab though.
If you burn fuel there is CO emmisions and the Black Cat heater states
that in the manual that came with it.
"Neon John" <no@never.com> wrote in message
news:b424o21llc3rj35jc885ki2123qsp8pra7@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:37:57 -0500, "Solar Flare"
> <solaerfart@hootmail.invalidated> wrote:
>
>
> No it's not. The Black Cat emits zero CO as indicated by my
> industrial CO instrument capable of measuring to 0.01PPM. It IS, in
> fact, designed for indoor use.
>
> I use the Black Cat in my semi truck cab. The NightHawk CO detector
> (resolution 1PPM) also in my cab indicates zero CO.
>
> Same for the Olympic heaters. They're designed for unvented use in
> RVs, far less air space than in a house.
>
> You simply don't know what you're talking about. Especially in the
> context of operating the thing for 5 minutes at a time.
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.neon-john.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
| |
| Solar Flare 2006-12-15, 3:25 am |
| There is a reason that showers do not have sealing doors and curtains
but it seems beyond your comprehension and truthfulness.
"Neon John" <no@never.com> wrote in message
news:6c34o2tl143mnf30f4igjpddm1fh1tele3@4ax.com...
> Man, you're on a stupid roll tonight, ain'tcha? First the CO thing
> and then the "illegal" unvented appliance thing and now this. Yet,
> like the energizer bunny, you just keep posting and posting and
> posting....
>
> Funny thing is, I've had a shower like that for >30 years in my
> mountain home. It doesn't have any fancy name or a web site to
> promote it. I had it built that way to cut down the humidity in the
> rest of the bathroom. A very common architecture.
>
> I doubt that it'll do this guy any good, however, unless he wants to
> dress in the shower stall.
>
> john
>
> On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 21:27:30 -0500, "Solar Flare"
> <solaerfart@hootmail.invalidated> wrote:
>
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.neon-john.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
| |
| Solar Flare 2006-12-15, 3:25 am |
| No such thing as perfect combustion, even in catalytic heaters. Yes
they are very low CO output but not free of CO. Read the pamphlet
that comes with them.
"ronwagn" <psychrn7n@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1166153579.956682.73590@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
> What about kerosene heaters?
> somebody@somewhere.com wrote:
>
| |
| clare at snyder.on.ca 2006-12-15, 3:25 am |
| On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 23:23:37 -0500, "Solar Flare"
<solaerfart@hootmail.invalidated> wrote:
>I have a Black Cat and you better read the instructions that came with
>it. I am sure you are complying with a leaky truck cab though.
>
>If you burn fuel there is CO emmisions and the Black Cat heater states
>that in the manual that came with it.
If you "incompletely" burn fuel CO is produced. Full combustion does
not, so it is fair to say when you burn fuel there is a "danger" or
"possibility" of CO production.
>
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
| |
| Solar Flare 2006-12-15, 3:25 am |
| Here is a US report on the units. One death due to catalytic heaters
is already on report in 2003. Oxygen depletion agravated by CO
concentrations are the concern in confined spaces. The testing results
and definitions are all there.
https://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foia05/os/CO03.pdf
<clare at snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:2a94o2t6mkomhbuv5tddr81ce3r7idt9om@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 23:23:37 -0500, "Solar Flare"
> <solaerfart@hootmail.invalidated> wrote:
>
>
> If you "incompletely" burn fuel CO is produced. Full combustion does
> not, so it is fair to say when you burn fuel there is a "danger" or
> "possibility" of CO production.
>
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>
| |
| Solar Flare 2006-12-15, 3:25 am |
| Read this. Your instrument is not to be trusted. Pay special attention
to the death reported prior to 2003 when the report was written. Your
logic, measurements and attitude are flawed and have no bearing upong
the installation laws of unvented fuel based heaters.
https://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foia05/os/CO03.pdf
"Neon John" <no@never.com> wrote in message
news:b424o21llc3rj35jc885ki2123qsp8pra7@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:37:57 -0500, "Solar Flare"
> <solaerfart@hootmail.invalidated> wrote:
>
>
> No it's not. The Black Cat emits zero CO as indicated by my
> industrial CO instrument capable of measuring to 0.01PPM. It IS, in
> fact, designed for indoor use.
>
> I use the Black Cat in my semi truck cab. The NightHawk CO detector
> (resolution 1PPM) also in my cab indicates zero CO.
>
> Same for the Olympic heaters. They're designed for unvented use in
> RVs, far less air space than in a house.
>
> You simply don't know what you're talking about. Especially in the
> context of operating the thing for 5 minutes at a time.
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.neon-john.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
| |
| somebody@somewhere.com 2006-12-15, 3:25 am |
| On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 23:37:08 -0500, "Solar Flare"
<solaerfart@hootmail.invalidated> wrote:
>Here is a US report on the units. One death due to catalytic heaters
>is already on report in 2003. Oxygen depletion agravated by CO
>concentrations are the concern in confined spaces. The testing results
>and definitions are all there.
>
>
>https://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foia05/os/CO03.pdf
>
Now come the quotes from the center for whining in the public
interest. These are the folks that see death heads in hamburgers and
rank movie popcorn with DDT.
People in Denver better watch out taking showers at high altitudes.
The heating and moisture in the air could reduce the available oxygen,
make them dizzy and fall unconscious, and they could die in the 1/4"
of water on the shower floor. Even the fumes from coffee could be
dangerous. BTW, it is 2006 now. Where are the reports of the
thousands of other deaths?
| |
| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2006-12-15, 9:25 am |
| Solar Flare <solaerfart@hootmail.invalidated> wrote:
>Stupid idea and based on total ignorance of reality. You need some
>fresh air or oxygen replacement to breathe in a shower. Anybody that
>has actually tried this will tell you that will become drowsy in a few
>minutes for lack of oxygen...
The authors tried it. We need about 5 cfm = 16.6Asqrt(8'(100F-70F)), so
we might have A = 0.02 ft^2 (2.8 in^2) holes at the top and bottom, or
a more interesting counterflow chimney arrangement, with condensation
from the outgoing air.
Nick
| |
| Neon John 2006-12-15, 1:26 pm |
| One death, eh? Same number of people in recorded time that have been
hit by a meteorite. I'm shaking in my boots with fear.....
Well yeah, duh! When the oxygen starts running low, even a catalytic
reaction will be incomplete.
In free air, the catalytic reaction makes NO CO, at least none within
the capabilities of my instrument.
Again, you simply don't know what you're talking about.
John
On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 23:37:08 -0500, "Solar Flare"
<solaerfart@hootmail.invalidated> wrote:
>Here is a US report on the units. One death due to catalytic heaters
>is already on report in 2003. Oxygen depletion agravated by CO
>concentrations are the concern in confined spaces. The testing results
>and definitions are all there.
>
>
>https://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foia05/os/CO03.pdf
>
>
><clare at snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
>news:2a94o2t6mkomhbuv5tddr81ce3r7idt9om@4ax.com...
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
| |
| Neon John 2006-12-15, 1:26 pm |
| On 15 Dec 2006 04:54:23 -0500, nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
>Solar Flare <solaerfart@hootmail.invalidated> wrote:
>
>
>The authors tried it. We need about 5 cfm = 16.6Asqrt(8'(100F-70F)), so
>we might have A = 0.02 ft^2 (2.8 in^2) holes at the top and bottom, or
>a more interesting counterflow chimney arrangement, with condensation
>from the outgoing air.
Or more simply, as in my shower, the space between the sliding glass
doors.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
| |
| fcrumpler@cityofsunrise.org 2006-12-15, 1:26 pm |
|
To all who have contributed to this thread, I thank you. I have
decided to go with a ceiling mounted quartz lamp as my solution. I am
considering a clockwork powered "lazy susan" to distribute the heat
evenly :-)
To NeonJohn, The mountain mentioned in the OP is east of Reliance, TN
not far from your place.
| |
| fcrumpler@cityofsunrise.org 2006-12-15, 1:26 pm |
|
To all who have contributed to this thread, I thank you. I have
decided to go with a ceiling mounted quartz lamp as my solution. I am
considering a clockwork powered "lazy susan" to distribute the heat
evenly :-)
To NeonJohn, The mountain mentioned in the OP is east of Reliance, TN
not far from your place.
| |
| Solar Flare 2006-12-15, 5:25 pm |
| Read the report, XXXXXXX. Your brain ahs already been affected by the
CO, just as the report says it will.
I hope the shaking doesn't continue too long before you die.
"Neon John" <no@never.com> wrote in message
news:0jr5o2hmna3qrgl4fippl1790lbicikfe6@4ax.com...
> One death, eh? Same number of people in recorded time that have
> been
> hit by a meteorite. I'm shaking in my boots with fear.....
>
> Well yeah, duh! When the oxygen starts running low, even a catalytic
> reaction will be incomplete.
>
> In free air, the catalytic reaction makes NO CO, at least none
> within
> the capabilities of my instrument.
>
> Again, you simply don't know what you're talking about.
>
> John
>
| |
| HeyBub 2006-12-17, 5:25 pm |
| fcrumpler@cityofsunrise.org wrote:
> I am "off grid" in Tennessee and it gets cold in the mountains! I
> want to be able to step out of the shower and stand in front of a
> "heating device" while I towel off and dress. Five minutes maximum
> usage. Local area only. 110VAC device.
> The question:
> Would some sort of quartz lamp type of heater be the most efficient?
Seems as if everyone is solving the wrong probllem.
Think heated towels.
| |
| Neon John 2006-12-17, 5:25 pm |
| On 15 Dec 2006 11:19:08 -0800, fcrumpler@cityofsunrise.org wrote:
>
>To all who have contributed to this thread, I thank you. I have
>decided to go with a ceiling mounted quartz lamp as my solution. I am
>considering a clockwork powered "lazy susan" to distribute the heat
>evenly :-)
>
>To NeonJohn, The mountain mentioned in the OP is east of Reliance, TN
>not far from your place.
Kewl! Old stomping grounds. What's your source of power? Not much
sun in our parts.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
| |
| Derek Broughton 2006-12-18, 1:25 pm |
| HeyBub wrote:
> fcrumpler@cityofsunrise.org wrote:
>
> Seems as if everyone is solving the wrong probllem.
>
> Think heated towels.
LOL. One of the best systems I've seen simply creates a towel rack of the
hot water plumbing.
--
derek
| |
| barry@sme-online.com 2006-12-18, 5:25 pm |
|
fcrumpler@cityofsunrise.org wrote:
> I am "off grid" in Tennessee and it gets cold in the mountains! I want
> to be able to step out of the shower and stand in front of a "heating
> device" while I towel off and dress. Five minutes maximum usage.
> Local area only. 110VAC device.
> The question:
> Would some sort of quartz lamp type of heater be the most efficient?
Another option: "Aladdin" kerosene (mantle-type) lamp. About 3200BTU/h
available. Run at high output, unburnt gases from cylindrical wick can
reach
mantle, depositing carbon, resulting in increasing deposit, smoke, etc.
Remove the silk part of the mantle, and it's a fine heater, and you
don't have
to keep it under observation. The above-mentioned problem is gone.
With full mantle, equivalent of 60w incandescent for emergencies.
Electric heating? Really! Not without co-gen making some use of the 70%
of input energy lost, IMHO.
J
| |
| Solar Flare 2006-12-18, 8:25 pm |
| Just run the generator exhaust through the bathroom and run some
appliances. The exhaust will warm up the room. Neon John doesn't need
any oxygen and the shower should be completely sealed anyway so the
heat can't get out so none will get into the shower stall. Nick can
make that one work or at least write some gimmick basic about it to
prove it. You may have to increase your lung capacity so you don't
have to breathe until dried off though. (sarc)
<barry@sme-online.com> wrote in message
news:1166476321.273574.165870@t46g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> fcrumpler@cityofsunrise.org wrote:
>
> Another option: "Aladdin" kerosene (mantle-type) lamp. About
> 3200BTU/h
> available. Run at high output, unburnt gases from cylindrical wick
> can
> reach
> mantle, depositing carbon, resulting in increasing deposit, smoke,
> etc.
>
> Remove the silk part of the mantle, and it's a fine heater, and you
> don't have
> to keep it under observation. The above-mentioned problem is gone.
>
> With full mantle, equivalent of 60w incandescent for emergencies.
>
> Electric heating? Really! Not without co-gen making some use of the
> 70%
> of input energy lost, IMHO.
>
> J
>
|
|
|
|
|