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Home > Archive > Alternative Power sources > February 2006 > really stupid idea
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really stupid idea
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| beemerwacker 2006-02-12, 12:21 pm |
| I'm thinking about building a thermosiphon water heater for summer
usage at our cabin in northern Michigan.
Then I thought that the water flow, as minor as it is, might be enough
to spin a small water turbine to produce power.
Shoot me down on this one before I try it.
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"beemerwacker" <43.kitcar@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1139758449.076982.81900@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I'm thinking about building a thermosiphon water heater for summer
> usage at our cabin in northern Michigan.
>
> Then I thought that the water flow, as minor as it is, might be enough
> to spin a small water turbine to produce power.
>
> Shoot me down on this one before I try it.
>
Consider it done.
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| Solar Flare 2006-02-12, 2:21 pm |
| I think somebody showed some calcs for a roof
collection system turbine and there wasn't enough head
X volume on a large house to pay for a small portion of
it.
"beemerwacker" <43.kitcar@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1139758449.076982.81900@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I'm thinking about building a thermosiphon water
heater for summer
> usage at our cabin in northern Michigan.
>
> Then I thought that the water flow, as minor as it
is, might be enough
> to spin a small water turbine to produce power.
>
> Shoot me down on this one before I try it.
>
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| beemerwacker 2006-02-12, 2:21 pm |
| Thanks. I figured someone else had already done it. Now it's onto the
solar cooker powered steam turbine.
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| Solar Flare 2006-02-12, 3:21 pm |
| I haven't done the math myself. I still think two
stories of falling roof water has to be worth
something.
"beemerwacker" <43.kitcar@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1139767261.319460.108570@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks. I figured someone else had already done it.
Now it's onto the
> solar cooker powered steam turbine.
>
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beemerwacker wrote:
> I'm thinking about building a thermosiphon water heater for summer
> usage at our cabin in northern Michigan.
>
> Then I thought that the water flow, as minor as it is, might be enough
> to spin a small water turbine to produce power.
>
> Shoot me down on this one before I try it.
Bang!
Thud!
"Hmm... looks a bit old and rangy. Best leave that one for the
coyotes."
;-).
DJ
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| Duane C. Johnson 2006-02-12, 5:21 pm |
| Hi Steve;
Steve Spence <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote:
> At 0.44 psi per foot don't expect much.
The differential pressure is a lot less than this.
Remember this is a thermosiphon water heater. That
means that the pressure is only caused by the
different densities of the hot water and cold water
sides.
Duane
--
Home of the $35 Solar Tracker Receiver
http://www.redrok.com/led3xassm.htm [*]
Powered by \ \ \ //|
Thermonuclear Solar Energy from the Sun / |
Energy (the SUN) \ \ \ / / |
Red Rock Energy \ \ / / |
Duane C. Johnson Designer \ \ / \ / |
1825 Florence St Heliostat,Control,& Mounts |
White Bear Lake, Minnesota === \ / \ |
USA 55110-3364 === \ |
(651)426-4766 use Courier New Font \ |
redrok@redrok.com (my email: address) \ |
http://www.redrok.com (Web site) ===
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"beemerwacker" <43.kitcar@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1139767261.319460.108570@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks. I figured someone else had already done it. Now it's onto the
> solar cooker powered steam turbine.
>
Talk to your utility,
http://www.aps.com/my_community/STA...ault.html?seq=1
This site is a couple of miles from my home. They have some really cool
solar "experiments" going on all of the time.
Steam from the sun can be done. There are several sites that are doing it
today. Low pressure steam is less than 20 psi, like when your car boils
over. High pressure steam is extremely dangerous. Need lots of room for
these guys, acres not square feet. Low pressure steam produces not much
power considering the infrastructure. If your building a toy/model great.
If your looking for kwh, steam would be pretty close to the bottom of my
"top 10 list". But then again I do not like plumbing.
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| meow2222@care2.com 2006-02-13, 1:21 am |
| beemerwacker wrote:
> I'm thinking about building a thermosiphon water heater for summer
> usage at our cabin in northern Michigan.
>
> Then I thought that the water flow, as minor as it is, might be enough
> to spin a small water turbine
yes, it could turn it... at maybe a couple of rpm. Connect it to
anything, eg bearings, and it'll stop dead.
> to produce power.
well, maybe if youre looking for microwatts.
> Shoot me down on this one before I try it.
thud.
NT
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| phatty mo 2006-02-13, 11:21 am |
| Duane C. Johnson wrote:
> Hi Steve;
>
> Steve Spence <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote:
>
>
> The differential pressure is a lot less than this.
> Remember this is a thermosiphon water heater. That
> means that the pressure is only caused by the
> different densities of the hot water and cold water
> sides.
>
> Duane
>
Okay... what if you stored the rainwater 2 stories up,in a big tank,and
released it (as needed?) to a small turbine/gen on the ground? Wouldn't
that help raise the pressure?
Maybe it could atleast recharge the flashlight batteries when the sun
hasn't come out for weeks. ;-)
Heck,It rains enough around here,it might just be worth it anyways..
It could run a night-light 10 out of 12 months!
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| JoeSP 2006-02-13, 11:21 am |
|
"phatty mo" <ptaylor@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:HB0If.12$903.3769@news.uswest.net...
> Duane C. Johnson wrote:
>
> Okay... what if you stored the rainwater 2 stories up,in a big tank,and
> released it (as needed?) to a small turbine/gen on the ground? Wouldn't
> that help raise the pressure?
>
Sure. I'm just glad you aren't in charge of spending our taxes.
> Maybe it could atleast recharge the flashlight batteries when the sun
> hasn't come out for weeks. ;-)
Get one of those LED flashlights with a crank generator. A few seconds of
cranking gets you several minutes of light.
>
> Heck,It rains enough around here,it might just be worth it anyways..
> It could run a night-light 10 out of 12 months!
A cheap solar panel will get you all the same benefits for a lot less
expense.
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| Steve Spence 2006-02-13, 2:21 pm |
| phatty mo wrote:
[color=darkred]
>
> Okay... what if you stored the rainwater 2 stories up,in a big tank,and
> released it (as needed?) to a small turbine/gen on the ground? Wouldn't
> that help raise the pressure?
>
> Maybe it could atleast recharge the flashlight batteries when the sun
> hasn't come out for weeks. ;-)
>
> Heck,It rains enough around here,it might just be worth it anyways..
> It could run a night-light 10 out of 12 months!
That's only 8psi. Do the math using the above as I mentioned.
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
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phatty mo wrote:
> Okay... what if you stored the rainwater 2 stories up,in a big tank,and
> released it (as needed?) to a small turbine/gen on the ground? Wouldn't
> that help raise the pressure?
Certainly it would. Just out of curiosity, what were you planning on
using to get that water up there? Nothing electrical, I hope ;-).
> Maybe it could atleast recharge the flashlight batteries when the sun
> hasn't come out for weeks. ;-)
>
> Heck,It rains enough around here,it might just be worth it anyways..
> It could run a night-light 10 out of 12 months!
Actually, in an off-grid system, installing a water storage cistern and
collecting that rainwater for domestic use would probably save alot
more electricity in pumping consumption than anything it could make
with a paddle wheel turbine.
DJ
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| Duane C. Johnson 2006-02-13, 9:21 pm |
| Hi Phatty;
phatty mo <ptaylor@nospam.com> wrote:
> Okay... what if you stored the rainwater 2 stories
> up,in a big tank,and released it (as needed?) to a
> small turbine/gen on the ground? Wouldn't that help
> raise the pressure?
Of course the pressure would increase with greater
heights. However, the pressure is quite small.
Remember, the original poster was asking about a
thermosiphon system. The developed pressure is dependent
on the different temperatures of the the two piping
runs. This pressure is fairly small.
> Maybe it could atleast recharge the flashlight
> batteries when the sun hasn't come out for weeks. ;-)
Sure, at most.
> Heck,It rains enough around here, it might just be
> worth it anyways..
> It could run a night-light 10 out of 12 months!
What does rain have anything to do with it? A
thermosiphon solar water heater is a closed system.
Duane
--
Home of the $35 Solar Tracker Receiver
http://www.redrok.com/led3xassm.htm [*]
Powered by \ \ \ //|
Thermonuclear Solar Energy from the Sun / |
Energy (the SUN) \ \ \ / / |
Red Rock Energy \ \ / / |
Duane C. Johnson Designer \ \ / \ / |
1825 Florence St Heliostat,Control,& Mounts |
White Bear Lake, Minnesota === \ / \ |
USA 55110-3364 === \ |
(651)426-4766 use Courier New Font \ |
redrok@redrok.com (my email: address) \ |
http://www.redrok.com (Web site) ===
| |
| beemerwacker 2006-02-13, 9:21 pm |
| Okay, forget about the thermosiphon hydro and the solar steam
generator. I'm moving onto cold fusion. :-) Although, I remember that
Clint Eastwood movie where they used water pressure to make water
cannons to get gold.
Besides, if you used a rainwater collection system to power a water
turbine, you'd need a pump to pump the water back to to the container
(cistern) when it isn't raining, which would be a great time to use a
photovoltaic panel to power the pump. I always loved to watch my dogs
chase their tails too.
Seems like trying to make a perpetual motion machine if you don't use
solar for the power system.
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| Solar Flare 2006-02-13, 9:21 pm |
| One cheap energy source is to use nitroglycerin in an
internal combustion engine fashion. It puts out a lot
of energy if harnessed carefully.
"beemerwacker" <43.kitcar@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1139878310.004138.311420@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Okay, forget about the thermosiphon hydro and the
solar steam
> generator. I'm moving onto cold fusion. :-)
Although, I remember that
> Clint Eastwood movie where they used water pressure
to make water
> cannons to get gold.
>
> Besides, if you used a rainwater collection system to
power a water
> turbine, you'd need a pump to pump the water back to
to the container
> (cistern) when it isn't raining, which would be a
great time to use a
> photovoltaic panel to power the pump. I always loved
to watch my dogs
> chase their tails too.
>
> Seems like trying to make a perpetual motion machine
if you don't use
> solar for the power system.
>
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| phatty mo 2006-02-14, 6:21 am |
| DJ wrote:
> phatty mo wrote:
>
>
>
> Certainly it would. Just out of curiosity, what were you planning on
> using to get that water up there? Nothing electrical, I hope ;-).
No need,Just stick the tank under the downspout for the raingutters.
>
>
>
> Actually, in an off-grid system, installing a water storage cistern and
> collecting that rainwater for domestic use would probably save alot
> more electricity in pumping consumption than anything it could make
> with a paddle wheel turbine.
>
> DJ
>
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| daestrom 2006-02-14, 7:21 pm |
|
"Solar Flare" <sfl@hutmail.notvalid> wrote in message
news:0bOdnaJD9ceEHXLenZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@golden.net...
>I haven't done the math myself. I still think two
> stories of falling roof water has to be worth
> something.
>
But with a thermo-syphon setup, you also have to use some of the energy from
falling water on one leg, to push hot water up the other leg. So the net
available is truly tiny.
(unless you want to carry the hot water back up by hand, but then it isn't a
thermo syphon setup anymore ;-)
daestrom
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| beemerwacker 2006-02-14, 9:21 pm |
| Can't do that, I use that method to water my veggie garden.
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phatty mo wrote:
> DJ wrote:
>
> No need,Just stick the tank under the downspout for the raingutters.
You mentioned the water was stored in a big tank, two stories up.
That's quite the rain gutter setup ;-).
DJ
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| JoeSP 2006-02-15, 11:21 am |
|
"DJ" <dj_macintyre@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1140010815.847218.161580@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> phatty mo wrote:
>
> You mentioned the water was stored in a big tank, two stories up.
> That's quite the rain gutter setup ;-).
>
> DJ
>
This whole thread is really an exercise in "could it work" and not "what
would work best" to achieve power generation. OK, it's been fun, but I
think we've fully explored the silliness of this idea.
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| Solar Flare 2006-02-16, 12:21 am |
| I doubt it is your idea to kill. Use your browser
thread killer.
"JoeSP" <olegp@telus.net> wrote in message
news:DrHIf.3054$_62.2745@edtnps90...
>
> "DJ" <dj_macintyre@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
news:1140010815.847218.161580@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
stories up,in a big tank,and[color=darkred]
on the ground? Wouldn't[color=darkred]
were you planning on[color=darkred]
electrical, I hope ;-).[color=darkred]
for the raingutters.[color=darkred]
two stories up.[color=darkred]
>
> This whole thread is really an exercise in "could it
work" and not "what
> would work best" to achieve power generation. OK,
it's been fun, but I
> think we've fully explored the silliness of this
idea.
>
>
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