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| Author |
5000 Watt Gen Head on 4 HP engine?
|
|
| Ulysses 2006-02-13, 12:21 am |
| Hi.
I have a 5000 watt generator head (attached to a 10 HP engine) that is
currently just sitting there as backup. I also have a 4 HP Honda engine
that it will most likely bolt right onto. I have more use for a 2000 watt
generator than I do for a 5000 watt right now. My question is will this
work? Will I be able to get 2000 watts from it or is the additional weight
of the armature too much for the little engine? It'll take some doing to
remove it from the other engine and reattach it and all so I figure I'd
better ask you guys first.
Thanks.
| |
| George Ghio 2006-02-13, 7:21 am |
| What does the output shaft on the 4hp look like, if it is a parallel
shaft then you can forget it right now.
If it is a tapered shaft you can forget it after you find it doesn't work.
Ulysses wrote:
> Hi.
>
> I have a 5000 watt generator head (attached to a 10 HP engine) that is
> currently just sitting there as backup. I also have a 4 HP Honda engine
> that it will most likely bolt right onto. I have more use for a 2000 watt
> generator than I do for a 5000 watt right now. My question is will this
> work? Will I be able to get 2000 watts from it or is the additional weight
> of the armature too much for the little engine? It'll take some doing to
> remove it from the other engine and reattach it and all so I figure I'd
> better ask you guys first.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
| |
| Steve Spence 2006-02-13, 2:21 pm |
| Ulysses wrote:
> Hi.
>
> I have a 5000 watt generator head (attached to a 10 HP engine) that is
> currently just sitting there as backup. I also have a 4 HP Honda engine
> that it will most likely bolt right onto. I have more use for a 2000 watt
> generator than I do for a 5000 watt right now. My question is will this
> work? Will I be able to get 2000 watts from it or is the additional weight
> of the armature too much for the little engine? It'll take some doing to
> remove it from the other engine and reattach it and all so I figure I'd
> better ask you guys first.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
You will be able to get 2kw from that 5kw gen head on a 4hp engine.
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| Steve Spence 2006-02-13, 2:21 pm |
| George Ghio wrote:[color=darkred]
> What does the output shaft on the 4hp look like, if it is a parallel
> shaft then you can forget it right now.
>
> If it is a tapered shaft you can forget it after you find it doesn't work.
>
> Ulysses wrote:
>
And why can't he use pulleys and a belt?
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
|
| In article <43f0c573$1_3@newsfeed.slurp.net>,
Steve Spence <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote:
> George Ghio wrote:
>
> And why can't he use pulleys and a belt?
That's easy to answer Steve....Because George didn't think of that
idea, first.....Now what stupid idea will SolarFart come up with......
that is the real question......
I would say that you might actually be able to pull 2Kw from a 5Kw
Genend powered by a 4 HP Gasoline Powered engine, IF the baseload
of just turning, the said genend, doesn't use more than one HP.
Me
| |
| George Ghio 2006-02-13, 5:21 pm |
| Ah, the usual suspect #2.
It is always nice to hear the voice of ignorance.
There is no reason at all, as long as he has access to a lathe to
machine a shaft to fit the gen head and has the ability to set up the
bearing block(2 bearings) to support the new shaft at the gen head not
to mention the extra losses of belt friction and doesn't mind flogging
his Honda to death.
Why do you think that a 10Hp(7500W) engine is used to run a 5000W
generator?
I would be surprised if he could manage 1500 watts with the Honda given
the weight of the generators armature.
Sort of makes a new 2000W generator look appealing.
You really should just stick to grease
Steve Spence wrote:
> George Ghio wrote:
>
>
> And why can't he use pulleys and a belt?
>
| |
| Solar Flare 2006-02-13, 9:21 pm |
| That's correct. Power out = power In - losses
"Steve Spence" <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote in
message news:43f0c4be$1_4@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> Ulysses wrote:
HP engine) that is[color=darkred]
have a 4 HP Honda engine[color=darkred]
more use for a 2000 watt[color=darkred]
question is will this[color=darkred]
is the additional weight[color=darkred]
It'll take some doing to[color=darkred]
all so I figure I'd[color=darkred]
>
> You will be able to get 2kw from that 5kw gen head on
a 4hp engine.
>
>
> --
> Steve Spence
> Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
> Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
> http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| Richard W. 2006-02-14, 12:21 am |
|
"Steve Spence" <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote in message
news:43f0c4be$1_4@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> Ulysses wrote:
watt[color=darkred]
weight[color=darkred]
to[color=darkred]
>
> You will be able to get 2kw from that 5kw gen head on a 4hp engine.
>
The Honda engines are rated at 4 hp intermittent, which means it's really
about a 2.5 to 3 hp continuous use.
I had kinda the same thing happen to me. I have a 3200 watt generator end
that takes a tapered shaft. Originally it had a 6 hp Tecumseh engine on it.
Well I didn't have an engine for it. Then I was given an almost new 5.5
Honda engine with a taper shaft. I thought I had it made when I put it
together. When I fired it up and plugged in a light bulb it worked. Then I
wanted to see how it did with a small 1500 watt heater turned on high. It
lugged down and the voltage dropped. I then set the heat on 1,000 watts and
the engine picked up speed. Later I found out the Honda engine was rated at
5.5 hp for intermittent use and not continuos use. I still have it and it's
hasn't been used since. Only because I got a 5,000 watt generator since
then.
| |
| Steve Spence 2006-02-14, 11:21 am |
| George Ghio wrote:
> Ah, the usual suspect #2.
> It is always nice to hear the voice of ignorance.
>
> There is no reason at all, as long as he has access to a lathe to
> machine a shaft to fit the gen head and has the ability to set up the
> bearing block(2 bearings) to support the new shaft at the gen head not
> to mention the extra losses of belt friction and doesn't mind flogging
> his Honda to death.
>
> Why do you think that a 10Hp(7500W) engine is used to run a 5000W
> generator?
>
> I would be surprised if he could manage 1500 watts with the Honda given
> the weight of the generators armature.
>
> Sort of makes a new 2000W generator look appealing.
>
> You really should just stick to grease
>
>
LOL, wow george, you really like to show your ignorance. the gen head
already has a shaft that will fit a pulley, and you can spin it with
your hand with no load on it, the weight is insignificant for this
application. We took a 5kw gen head off a blown Briggs, and belt drove
it from a hatz 10hp diesel. here was no machining or lathework
necessary. especially no bearing blocks. the belt friction losses are
easily covered by the 1kw = 2hp ROT, so his 4hp engine will allow him to
pull 2kw from the gen head. If he tries to pull much more, he will slip
belts or stall the engine.
Try talking about something you have actually done.
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| Steve Spence 2006-02-14, 11:21 am |
| Richard W. wrote:
> "Steve Spence" <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote in message
> news:43f0c4be$1_4@newsfeed.slurp.net...
>
>
> watt
>
>
> weight
>
>
> to
>
>
>
> The Honda engines are rated at 4 hp intermittent, which means it's really
> about a 2.5 to 3 hp continuous use.
Well, that's a horse of a different color. I'm basing my statements on
continuous not intermittent. I've never worked with an engine with hp
rated intermittently. what's that duty cycle?
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| Ulysses 2006-02-14, 5:21 pm |
|
"Steve Spence" <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote in message
news:43f0c573$1_3@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> George Ghio wrote:
work.[color=darkred]
engine[color=darkred]
this[color=darkred]
to[color=darkred]
>
> And why can't he use pulleys and a belt?
The part that I'm sure of is that the alternator (armature) will fit on the
tapered shaft of the Honda engine. I'm *pretty* sure the spacing for the
mounting plate screws for the stator is the same too.
>
> --
> Steve Spence
> Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
> Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
> http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| Ulysses 2006-02-14, 5:21 pm |
|
"Richard W." <raweich@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5r-dnc5liKNwzmzenZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@scnresearch.com...
>
> "Steve Spence" <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote in message
> news:43f0c4be$1_4@newsfeed.slurp.net...
engine[color=darkred]
> watt
this[color=darkred]
> weight
> to
I'd[color=darkred]
>
> The Honda engines are rated at 4 hp intermittent, which means it's
really
> about a 2.5 to 3 hp continuous use.
>
> I had kinda the same thing happen to me. I have a 3200 watt generator end
> that takes a tapered shaft. Originally it had a 6 hp Tecumseh engine on
it.
> Well I didn't have an engine for it. Then I was given an almost new 5.5
> Honda engine with a taper shaft. I thought I had it made when I put it
> together. When I fired it up and plugged in a light bulb it worked. Then I
> wanted to see how it did with a small 1500 watt heater turned on high. It
> lugged down and the voltage dropped. I then set the heat on 1,000 watts
and
> the engine picked up speed. Later I found out the Honda engine was rated
at
> 5.5 hp for intermittent use and not continuos use. I still have it and
it's
> hasn't been used since. Only because I got a 5,000 watt generator since
> then.
>
>
You also have to realize that some gen heads that output 240 volts are are
rated at, say, 5000 watts are 2500 watts for each end at 120 volts. I
suspect it's possible to squeeze a bit more out but probably not a lot more.
!500 watts may have been exceeding the rating of that particular end of the
generator.
Meanwhile, I put it all together and I'm about ready to go start it up,
adjust the voltage, and see what happens. Everything fit together just fine
i.e. the tapers on the shafts were the same and the only modification I had
to make was add one extra washer to the bolt that hold on the rotor (and add
a support under the gen head as the Honda engine is a bit shorter than the
Tecumseh 10 HP it is being switched with.
| |
| George Ghio 2006-02-14, 7:21 pm |
| Misinformation is the hallmark if the usual suspects.
While "some" gen heads do have a shaft on the drive side the majority do
not. They have a tapered hole which fits the tapered output shaft on the
motor. There is a through bolt which holds the gen head on the taper.
The gen head does not have a bearing on the driven end as it relies on
the crank shaft bearings for support.
It is also questionable as to whether or not the two motors in question
would have the same size output shafts. Not likely.
It seems that your experience is restricted to a single generator.
Stick to your grease.
Steve Spence wrote:
> George Ghio wrote:
>
>
> LOL, wow george, you really like to show your ignorance. the gen head
> already has a shaft that will fit a pulley, and you can spin it with
> your hand with no load on it, the weight is insignificant for this
> application. We took a 5kw gen head off a blown Briggs, and belt drove
> it from a hatz 10hp diesel. here was no machining or lathework
> necessary. especially no bearing blocks. the belt friction losses are
> easily covered by the 1kw = 2hp ROT, so his 4hp engine will allow him to
> pull 2kw from the gen head. If he tries to pull much more, he will slip
> belts or stall the engine.
>
> Try talking about something you have actually done.
>
>
>
>
>
| |
| Solar Flare 2006-02-14, 8:21 pm |
| When did you do it?
Stick to arguments that don't make you look like a
fool.
"Steve Spence" <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote in
message news:43f1ed1d$1_1@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> LOL, wow george, you really like to show your
ignorance. the gen head
> already has a shaft that will fit a pulley, and you
can spin it with
> your hand with no load on it, the weight is
insignificant for this
> application. We took a 5kw gen head off a blown
Briggs, and belt drove
> it from a hatz 10hp diesel. here was no machining or
lathework
> necessary. especially no bearing blocks. the belt
friction losses are
> easily covered by the 1kw = 2hp ROT, so his 4hp
engine will allow him to
> pull 2kw from the gen head. If he tries to pull much
more, he will slip
> belts or stall the engine.
>
> Try talking about something you have actually done.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Steve Spence
> Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
> Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
> http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
|
|
| George Ghio 2006-02-14, 10:21 pm |
| The usual suspect #1 has said;
wmbjk wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:10:32 +1100, George Ghio <AKA@nomailhere.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> No George, most misinformation in these groups comes from you. I think
> you must average about one serious blunder per week, your comment
> about needing a lathe the latest. Why didn't you just wait for the OP
> to report on the fit instead of blundering again?
Foaming at the mouth rant
>
>
>
>
> Baloney.
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ct...temnumber=45416
> http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...tId=8795&R=8795
> http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...tId=9040&R=9040
> http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...d=21008&R=21008
> http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.a...9&catname=water
>
>
>
>
> Wrong again George, the OP has already posted that the shafts mated
> up. All that's left now is to wait for him to tell us whether or not
> 5hp was sufficient. It'll be close.
My statement was correct in that it raised the distinct possibility that
the shafts may not be the same size. This also is supported by my first
post which said:
If it is a tapered shaft you can forget it after you find it doesn't work.
Still waiting on performance report.
Also note that Usual suspect # 1 does not even know that the OP has
claimed a 4Hp engine not 5
>
>
>
>
> Projecting again eh George?
No, Usual suspect #2 claimed one experience in his post. i.e.; We took a
5kw gen head off a blown Briggs, and belt drove it from a hatz 10hp diesel.
| |
| Richard W. 2006-02-14, 10:21 pm |
|
"Steve Spence" <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote in message
news:43f1ee2f$1_1@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> Richard W. wrote:
really[color=darkred]
>
> Well, that's a horse of a different color. I'm basing my statements on
> continuous not intermittent. I've never worked with an engine with hp
> rated intermittently. what's that duty cycle?
>
I have no idea, since I don't have any paper work for it. Although I would
think continuous at the lower hp.
At work we build hydraulic power units. Standard model is the 18 hp V two
cylinder. The optional engine is a Honda and the 18 hp Honda won't keep up,
so we use a 20 hp V two. Same thing here also, The Hondas have the hp rated
for intermitmittant use. So we had to use the bigger engine.
http://www.stanley-hydraulic-tools....wer%20units.htm
http://www.stanley-hydraulic-tools....Main%20Page.htm
| |
| Steve Spence 2006-02-14, 10:21 pm |
| Solar Flare wrote:
> When did you do it?
>
> Stick to arguments that don't make you look like a
> fool.
>
8 months ago, and I'm not fooling. What specifically do you find fault
with in my implementation, or is this another "I have no idea but it
sounds cool to argue with those who actually do this stuff".
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| Steve Spence 2006-02-14, 10:21 pm |
| Ulysses wrote:
>
> You also have to realize that some gen heads that output 240 volts are are
> rated at, say, 5000 watts are 2500 watts for each end at 120 volts. I
> suspect it's possible to squeeze a bit more out but probably not a lot more.
> !500 watts may have been exceeding the rating of that particular end of the
> generator.
>
> Meanwhile, I put it all together and I'm about ready to go start it up,
> adjust the voltage, and see what happens. Everything fit together just fine
> i.e. the tapers on the shafts were the same and the only modification I had
> to make was add one extra washer to the bolt that hold on the rotor (and add
> a support under the gen head as the Honda engine is a bit shorter than the
> Tecumseh 10 HP it is being switched with.
>
>
Indeed, most units only have 2 15 amp breakers (1800 watts per circuit),
so it's not possible to pull full wattage on the 120 volt sides. I had
one with a 20 amp 220vac circuit, for 4400 watts, even though it was
labeled a 5500 watt unit with a 6500 watt surge. I never tried pulling
off the 120vac circuits at the same time I was pulling off the 220ac
circuit.
Good luck, and let us know how it went.
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| Steve Spence 2006-02-14, 10:21 pm |
| George Ghio wrote:
> Misinformation is the hallmark if the usual suspects.
>
> While "some" gen heads do have a shaft on the drive side the majority do
> not. They have a tapered hole which fits the tapered output shaft on the
> motor. There is a through bolt which holds the gen head on the taper.
> The gen head does not have a bearing on the driven end as it relies on
> the crank shaft bearings for support.
>
> It is also questionable as to whether or not the two motors in question
> would have the same size output shafts. Not likely.
>
> It seems that your experience is restricted to a single generator.
>
> Stick to your grease.
>
Mismatched output shafts are not a problem, just get the matching
pulleys. If you have a gen head without a shaft (have not see them, all
the common ones around here have shafts), you could add a shaft with a
plate bolted to the gen head with a bearing. More work. Easier just to
get a inexpensive gen head from northern tool or harbor freight. Many
have bearings on both ends.
Stick to welding george, you're blowing smoke again.
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| Steve Spence 2006-02-14, 10:21 pm |
| George Ghio wrote:
> No, Usual suspect #2 claimed one experience in his post. i.e.; We took a
> 5kw gen head off a blown Briggs, and belt drove it from a hatz 10hp diesel.
Almost correct. I talked about one experience, I didn't claim I only had
one experience. I didn't mention the many yanmar genset's I built when I
worked at Ferguson Diesels in Bristol PA. Mostly pincor and winco heads.
Single bearing units with a pillow block. Technology has improved in the
last 20 years. No lathe required on those puppies either.
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| Ulysses 2006-02-14, 11:21 pm |
|
"Steve Spence" <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote in message
news:43f1ee2f$1_1@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> Richard W. wrote:
engine[color=darkred]
this[color=darkred]
really[color=darkred]
Huh. I've not heard of that. Most generator heads and inverters are have a
maximum and continuous rating but I don't recall ever seeing that on an
engine, particulary an engine that was designed for generator use. I'm not
quite sure what that means to me (us). I also don't think I've ever ran a
generator at the full rating for an extended period but now that I have too
small of an engine for the size of generator head it sounds like this could
become apparent.
[color=darkred]
>
> Well, that's a horse of a different color. I'm basing my statements on
> continuous not intermittent. I've never worked with an engine with hp
> rated intermittently. what's that duty cycle?
>
> --
> Steve Spence
> Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
> Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
> http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| Solar Flare 2006-02-16, 12:21 am |
| Are you just talking nonsense again?
Nobody can understand you.
"Steve Spence" <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote in
message news:43f28939_1@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> Solar Flare wrote:
>
> 8 months ago, and I'm not fooling. What specifically
do you find fault
> with in my implementation, or is this another "I have
no idea but it
> sounds cool to argue with those who actually do this
stuff".
>
>
>
>
> --
> Steve Spence
> Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
> Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
> http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| Steve Spence 2006-02-16, 1:21 pm |
| Solar Flare wrote:
> Are you just talking nonsense again?
>
> Nobody can understand you.
>
You asked the question (when did I set up the Hatz Generator), I
answered (8 months ago). It's not my fault you have comprehension
issues. Don't project your issues on the rest of the group, they
understand me quite well. You argue a lot with the folks who are
actually accomplishing results, when there is no proof from you that you
have ever touched anything besides a keyboard.
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
| Solar Flare 2006-02-16, 7:21 pm |
| I guess you just miss Whine's backside since he moved
out then?
"Steve Spence" <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote in
message news:43f4a7ef_1@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> Solar Flare wrote:
>
> You asked the question (when did I set up the Hatz
Generator), I
> answered (8 months ago). It's not my fault you have
comprehension
> issues. Don't project your issues on the rest of the
group, they
> understand me quite well. You argue a lot with the
folks who are
> actually accomplishing results, when there is no
proof from you that you
> have ever touched anything besides a keyboard.
>
>
> --
> Steve Spence
> Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
> Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
> http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
| |
|
|
| Dean Hoffman 2006-02-18, 8:21 pm |
| In article <43f0c573$1_3@newsfeed.slurp.net>,
Steve Spence <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote:
> George Ghio wrote:
>
> And why can't he use pulleys and a belt?
We've taken a couple gensets apart at work after either the
generator or the engine failed. The generator was bolted directly to
the engine. The output shaft bearing of the motor also served as the
input shaft bearing of the generator.
Dean
----== Posted via droptable.com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.droptable.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
| |
| George Ghio 2006-02-18, 10:21 pm |
|
Dean Hoffman wrote:
> In article <43f0c573$1_3@newsfeed.slurp.net>,
> Steve Spence <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> We've taken a couple gensets apart at work after either the
> generator or the engine failed. The generator was bolted directly to
> the engine. The output shaft bearing of the motor also served as the
> input shaft bearing of the generator.
>
> Dean
And just how much shaft was sticking out of the generator?
Enough to fit a bearing and pulley?
| |
| Steve Spence 2006-02-18, 10:21 pm |
| Dean Hoffman wrote:
>
>
> We've taken a couple gensets apart at work after either the
> generator or the engine failed. The generator was bolted directly to
> the engine. The output shaft bearing of the motor also served as the
> input shaft bearing of the generator.
>
> Dean
>
then you take the output shaft and mount it in a pillow block.
or just pick up a 7200 watt gen head from harbor freight that has a
pulley shaft on it already for $369 ...
--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html
|
|
|
|
|