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| Gunner 2006-02-14, 1:21 pm |
| On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 09:29:39 -0500, Thomas Lee Elifritz
<cosmic@lifeform.org> wrote:
>pyotr filipivich wrote:
>
>
>It's not magic, it's condensed matter physics.
>
>
>That might actually require you to 'think' and do
>'independent research', some skills you appear to lack.
>
>"Ammonia Synthesis at Atmospheric Pressure", George Marnellos and
>Michael Stoukides, Science, October 2, 1998, Volume 282, pp. 98-100.
>
>"This process offers an alternative route that permits operation at the
>desired pressures and temperatures without the thermodynamic
>restrictions imposed on conventional catalytic reactors. The above
>experimental observations show that H2 is quantitatively converted into
>NH3 regardless of the thermodynamic restrictions for limited conversion.
>The result does not mean that the present data violate thermodynamics in
>any aspect. Simply, the final state of high conversion to NH3 is
>achieved by consumption of electrical work by the system. The situation
>is similar to the case of H2O dissociation into H2 and O2. : if this
>reaction is carried out at 25 degrees C and atmospheric pressure, the
>thermodynamically calculated mole fractions of H2 and O2 are of the
>order of 10^-27. Nevertheless, water is quantitatively dissociated if
>electrical work is offered (electrolysis)."
>
>Now, do you know how to use google? I can help :
>
>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...G=Google+Search
>
>http://cosmic.lifeform.org
Quite interesting. Indeed.
Now about the other elements needed for proper crop fertilization?
One of course would use efficent crop rotation to hopefuly fix enough
nitrogen and so forth, but as Im sure you know...areas best suited for
solar, tend to have poor soils and need vast amounts of additives to
reduce alkalinity and salt and so forth.
Gunner
"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3
| |
|
| On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 16:36:35 GMT, Gunner <gunner@lightspeed.net> wrote:
>One of course would use efficent crop rotation to hopefuly fix enough
>nitrogen and so forth, but as Im sure you know...areas best suited for
>solar, tend to have poor soils and need vast amounts of additives to
>reduce alkalinity and salt and so forth.
You been at the neighbors cows again?
--
Cliff
| |
| Thomas Lee Elifritz 2006-02-14, 3:21 pm |
| Gunner wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 09:29:39 -0500, Thomas Lee Elifritz
> <cosmic@lifeform.org> wrote:
>
>
> Quite interesting. Indeed.
>
> Now about the other elements needed for proper crop fertilization?
The salts and trace metals are trivially obtained by evaporation or
electrolysis.
The only other nutrient necessary is phosphorus as phosphate, and that
is the crucial element necessary for life anyways. Phosphorus is the
limiting element, regardless. It is quite possible to claim that life is
based upon group V elements nitrogen and phosphorus, the carbon merely
provides a convenient framework. Phosphorus is real problem anyways.
Note : Mars - loaded with sulfates and phosphates, a carbon dioxide
atmosphere, lots of iron and trace metals, but little nitrogen. Any
extremophile life on Mars is therefore cycling carbon to and the
atmosphere very tightly, and contrary to life on earth, is also
presumably scavenging every little scrap of nitrogen. Finding life on
mars is no longer following the water, water is everywhere on mars just
under the surface, it's rather now follow the nitrogen.
> One of course would use efficient crop rotation to hopefully fix enough
> nitrogen and so forth, but as I'm sure you know...areas best suited for
> solar, tend to have poor soils and need vast amounts of additives to
> reduce alkalinity and salt and so forth.
Which is why it is important to not over fertilize and to continuously
add organic carbon, nitrogen and phosphorus, composting etc. However,
what we are talking about is hydroponics, which when done properly and
separately from the organic farming, is an excellent source of organic
raw materials to compost and add to the soils, thus competing the solar
cycle of agriculture.
http://www.lifeform.org/hydroponics.htm
http://cosmic.lifeform.org
| |
|
| On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:36:14 -0500, Thomas Lee Elifritz
<cosmic@lifeform.org> wrote:
>Gunner wrote:
if it were economical, whole industries would have abandoned the Haber
Process. they haven't yet...
[color=darkred]
>
>The salts and trace metals are trivially obtained by evaporation or
>electrolysis.
>
>The only other nutrient necessary is phosphorus as phosphate, and that
>is the crucial element necessary for life anyways. Phosphorus is the
>limiting element, regardless. It is quite possible to claim that life is
>based upon group V elements nitrogen and phosphorus, the carbon merely
>provides a convenient framework. Phosphorus is real problem anyways.
how about potassium?
>
>Note : Mars - loaded with sulfates and phosphates, a carbon dioxide
>atmosphere, lots of iron and trace metals, but little nitrogen. Any
>extremophile life on Mars is therefore cycling carbon to and the
>atmosphere very tightly, and contrary to life on earth, is also
>presumably scavenging every little scrap of nitrogen. Finding life on
>mars is no longer following the water, water is everywhere on mars just
>under the surface, it's rather now follow the nitrogen.
not at that partial pressure!
the only thing that could live on mars would be bacteria that could
live in acid mine drainage. its a punishing environment.
>
>
>Which is why it is important to not over fertilize and to continuously
>add organic carbon, nitrogen and phosphorus, composting etc. However,
>what we are talking about is hydroponics, which when done properly and
>separately from the organic farming, is an excellent source of organic
>raw materials to compost and add to the soils, thus competing the solar
>cycle of agriculture.
>
>http://www.lifeform.org/hydroponics.htm
>
>http://cosmic.lifeform.org
| |
| Cliff 2006-02-16, 12:21 pm |
| On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 14:40:29 GMT, beav <BEAVITH1@NETSCAPE.NET> wrote:
>
>the only thing that could live on mars would be bacteria that could
>live in acid mine drainage. its a punishing environment.
On Earth there are an amazing number of extremophyles/extremophils,
thermophiles, halophyles, etc.
Some even require extremes of pressure to manage well, if at all.
Some may reproduce every hundred years or more if they are lucky
enough .... life need not be fast it seems.
--
Cliff
| |
| Gunner 2006-02-18, 4:21 am |
| On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:36:14 -0500, Thomas Lee Elifritz
<cosmic@lifeform.org> wrote:
>
>The salts and trace metals are trivially obtained by evaporation or
>electrolysis.
Evaporation or electrolysis of What?????
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
| |
| Thomas Lee Elifritz 2006-02-18, 10:21 am |
| Gunner wrote:
[color=darkred]
[color=darkred]
[color=darkred]
>
> Evaporation or electrolysis of What?????
Evaporation of sea water, electrolysis of molten salts.
http://cosmic.lifeform.org
| |
| Pope Secola IV 2006-02-18, 2:21 pm |
| Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
> Gunner wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Evaporation of sea water, electrolysis of molten salts.
>
> http://cosmic.lifeform.org
Or do what God (or mother nature if you desire) do, in the fall, gather
all the animal wastes, put in a large wagon, with set of high speed
turning flails at the back (driven by the rear wheels), that throw small
chunks of the animal waste all over the dammed place. Then turn under
with a plow and let lie over the winter. In the spring you will have
plenty of fertilizer, with ammonia and other trace elements to grow what
ever you want.
In the pasturage for the cattle the manure piles are wide spread, In the
fall of the year I use a pick up attach (rotating wire teeth and a comb
assembly on my swather to gather up the manure and place it in a wagon.
I then run it through a crumblier to break it into smaller pieces. Place
the shit (that's what it is you know) in the manure spreader and place
on the crop land. I rarely use any commercial fertilizer.
Agriculture has been a closed system for over 2 billion years. The
waste products and remains of living things become the food for other
living things.
--
Censorship and Gun Control are the political equivalent of binding and
gagging a victim before raping and mugging them.
Such acts are carried out by the same thugs, one with a law degree from
a state pen, the other a law degree from a university for the same sick
perverted purposes which are to remove you from your property, liberty
and dignity, and bend you to will of others.
| |
| Gunner 2006-02-18, 3:21 pm |
| On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 08:35:49 -0500, Thomas Lee Elifritz
<cosmic@lifeform.org> wrote:
>Gunner wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>Evaporation of sea water, electrolysis of molten salts.
>
>http://cosmic.lifeform.org
So this is going to help me be self suffient here in the high desert
while farming, , exactly how?
Molten salts??? What salts..and how to I make em molten without a
Significant energy input.
Gunner
"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3
| |
| Gunner 2006-02-18, 3:21 pm |
| On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 10:02:20 -0800, Pope Secola IV
<Supreme_rodent@gopher_hole.net> wrote:
>
>Or do what God (or mother nature if you desire) do, in the fall, gather
>all the animal wastes, put in a large wagon, with set of high speed
>turning flails at the back (driven by the rear wheels), that throw small
>chunks of the animal waste all over the dammed place. Then turn under
>with a plow and let lie over the winter. In the spring you will have
>plenty of fertilizer, with ammonia and other trace elements to grow what
>ever you want.
>
>In the pasturage for the cattle the manure piles are wide spread, In the
>fall of the year I use a pick up attach (rotating wire teeth and a comb
>assembly on my swather to gather up the manure and place it in a wagon.
>
>I then run it through a crumblier to break it into smaller pieces. Place
>the shit (that's what it is you know) in the manure spreader and place
>on the crop land. I rarely use any commercial fertilizer.
>
>Agriculture has been a closed system for over 2 billion years. The
>waste products and remains of living things become the food for other
>living things.
Gosh..you mean a manure spreader is simpler and more effective than
Solar Will Save Us All?
Gunner
"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3
| |
|
| On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 08:35:49 -0500, Thomas Lee Elifritz <cosmic@lifeform.org>
wrote:
>Gunner wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>Evaporation of sea water, electrolysis of molten salts.
Those may yield salt ....
--
Cliff
| |
| Thomas Lee Elifritz 2006-02-18, 3:21 pm |
| Gunner wrote:
> So this is going to help me be self suffient here in the high desert
> while farming, , exactly how?
>
> Molten salts??? What salts..and how to I make em molten without a
> Significant energy input.
Why don't you go a figure out how you are going to do agriculture
without solar energy. I've got better things to do than to argue
with an obvious crackpot who can't seem to help himself to free
knowledge on the internet.
<plonk>
http://cosmic.lifeform.org
| |
| Stuart Grey 2006-02-18, 3:21 pm |
| Gunner wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 10:02:20 -0800, Pope Secola IV
> <Supreme_rodent@gopher_hole.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Gosh..you mean a manure spreader is simpler and more effective than
> Solar Will Save Us All?
>
> Gunner
>
AFter the shit hits the fan, the biggest danger to the self sufficent
survialist farmer will be the government that comes and requisitions his
crops. A good farmer would compost his and his family's shit, and put
those elements back into the ground. If he can do that, he can maintain
his farm forever.
With all that organic matter being taken from his soil, it's only a
matter of time until his soil is depleted. With no energy to make
fertilizer, he's toast.
SOS - Save Our Shit. :-)
LOL!
| |
| Pope Secola IV 2006-02-18, 4:21 pm |
| Gunner wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 10:02:20 -0800, Pope Secola IV
> <Supreme_rodent@gopher_hole.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Gosh..you mean a manure spreader is simpler and more effective than
> Solar Will Save Us All?
>
> Gunner
>
Pray tell me just why all those Asians for thousands of years have been
carrying honey buckets to their rice crops. ;-)>
--
Censorship and Gun Control are the political equivalent of binding and
gagging a victim before raping and mugging them.
Such acts are carried out by the same thugs, one with a law degree from
a state pen, the other a law degree from a university for the same sick
perverted purposes which are to remove you from your property, liberty
and dignity, and bend you to will of others.
| |
| Stuart Grey 2006-02-18, 4:21 pm |
| Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
> Why don't you go a figure out how you are going to do agriculture
> without solar energy.
Shit. The commie stoners at the UW figuerd that one out decades ago.
There's a big grow light store near the campus.
| |
|
| On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 10:02:20 -0800, Pope Secola IV
<Supreme_rodent@gopher_hole.net> wrote in
<eP6dnRHI__8v_WreRVn-vw@web-ster.com> :
|>Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
|>> Gunner wrote:
|>>
|>>>>>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...G=Google+Search
|>>>>>>
|>>
|>>
|>>>>> Quite interesting. Indeed.
|>>
|>>
|>>>>> Now about the other elements needed for proper crop fertilization?
|>>
|>>
|>>>> The salts and trace metals are trivially obtained by evaporation or
|>>>> electrolysis.
|>>>
|>>>
|>>> Evaporation or electrolysis of What?????
|>>
|>>
|>> Evaporation of sea water, electrolysis of molten salts.
|>>
|>> http://cosmic.lifeform.org
|>
|>Or do what God (or mother nature if you desire) do, in the fall, gather
|>all the animal wastes, put in a large wagon, with set of high speed
|>turning flails at the back (driven by the rear wheels), that throw small
|>chunks of the animal waste all over the dammed place. Then turn under
|>with a plow and let lie over the winter. In the spring you will have
|>plenty of fertilizer, with ammonia and other trace elements to grow what
|>ever you want.
|>
|>In the pasturage for the cattle the manure piles are wide spread, In the
|>fall of the year I use a pick up attach (rotating wire teeth and a comb
|>assembly on my swather to gather up the manure and place it in a wagon.
|>
|>I then run it through a crumblier to break it into smaller pieces. Place
|>the shit (that's what it is you know) in the manure spreader and place
|>on the crop land. I rarely use any commercial fertilizer.
|>
|>Agriculture has been a closed system for over 2 billion years. The
|>waste products and remains of living things become the food for other
|>living things.
<Zadoc comment starts>
In some countries it comes closer to being a closed system than
others. Next to nitrogen, phosphorous is probably the next most
important element. Most western countries dump their human
sewage in the ocean, so this represents a steady loss of
phosphorous. So we mine it instead.
---------------------------------
Phosphorous in the environment
In the natural world phosphorous is never encountered in its pure
form, but only as phosphates, which consists of a phosphorous
atom bonded to four oxygen atoms. This can exists as the
negatively charged phosphate ion (PO43-), which is how it occurs
in minerals, or as organophosphates in which there are organic
molecules attached to one, two or three of the oxygen atoms.
The amount of phosphorous that is naturally present in food
varies considerably but can be as high as 370 mg/100 g in liver,
or can be low, as in vegetable oils. Foods rich in phosphorous
include tuna, salmon, sardines, liver, turkey, chicken, eggs and
cheese (200 g/100 g).
There are many phosphate minerals, the most abundant being forms
of apatite. Fluoroapatite provides the most extensively mined
deposits. The chief mining areas are Russia, USA, Morocco,
Tunisia, Togo and Nauru. World production is 153 million tones
per year. There are concerns over how long these phosphorous
deposits will last. In case of depletion there could be a serious
problem for the worlds food production since phosphorus is such
an essential ingredient in fertilizers.
In the oceans, the concentration of phosphates is very low,
particularly at the surface. The reason lies partly within the
insolubility of aluminum and calcium phosphates, but in any case
in the oceans phosphate is quickly used up and falls into the
deep as organic debris. There can be more phosphate in rivers and
lakes, resulting in excessive algae growth. For further details
go to environmental effects of phosphorous.
http://www.lenntech.com/Periodic-ch...ements/P-en.htm
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, eventually, the phosphorous will run out, just as the oil
will. Water is already becoming a problem in many countries.
There are also a lot of essential trace elements, for example
selenium, which was and still is a problem in Australia.
http://www.petalia.com.au/Templates...rs&specie=sheep
or
http://tinyurl.com/7mltg
Like it or not, we couldn't begin to feed the present world
population with the so called "organic" farming methods.
As usual, many or most of the worlds problems are tracable to the
lack of population control of the human race. There is a limit
as to how many humans the planet will support.
In 1850 the world population was around a billion, which sounds
like a pretty reasonable level to me. Even the two billion we
had in 1930 might be sustainable.
As many wars are fought over diminishing resources, a world
population of a billion would probably be ideal if could maintain
ZPG.
Posting from misc.survivalism
</ Zadoc comment ends>
Cheers,
zadoc@invalid.com.au
| |
|
| On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 18:25:07 GMT, Gunner <gunner@lightspeed.net>
wrote in <0ipev1p931srtq1uhgvnfad0r4ppad4msd@4ax.com> :
|>On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 08:35:49 -0500, Thomas Lee Elifritz
|><cosmic@lifeform.org> wrote:
|>
|>>Gunner wrote:
|>>
|>>>>>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...G=Google+Search
|>>
|>>>>> Quite interesting. Indeed.
|>>
|>>>>> Now about the other elements needed for proper crop fertilization?
|>>
|>>>> The salts and trace metals are trivially obtained by evaporation or
|>>>> electrolysis.
|>>>
|>>> Evaporation or electrolysis of What?????
|>>
|>>Evaporation of sea water, electrolysis of molten salts.
|>>
|>>http://cosmic.lifeform.org
|>
|>
|>So this is going to help me be self suffient here in the high desert
|>while farming, , exactly how?
|>
|>Molten salts??? What salts..and how to I make em molten without a
|>Significant energy input.
|>
|>Gunner
|>
|>
|>
|>"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
|> the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
|>- Proverbs 22:3
<Zadoc comment starts>
Even more importantly, how do you seperate the ones you need from
the ones you want to avoid?
</ Zadoc comment ends>
zadoc@invalid.com.au
| |
| Thomas Lee Elifritz 2006-02-18, 9:21 pm |
|
zadoc wrote:
> Even more importantly, how do you seperate the ones you need from
> the ones you want to avoid?
That's what science is about, solving important problems.
Take seawater for instance. If you take the sodium chloride out of seawater, what you have left is a very
good hydroponic base solution, a little heavy on magnesium. Just add nitrate and phosphate.
Gunner thinks he can do agriculture without solar energy,
so obviously science isn't one of his strong points.
http://cosmic.lifeform.org
| |
| Pope Secola IV 2006-02-18, 10:21 pm |
| Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
>
> zadoc wrote:
>
>
>
>
> That's what science is about, solving important problems.
>
> Take seawater for instance. If you take the sodium chloride out of seawater, what you have left is a very
> good hydroponic base solution, a little heavy on magnesium. Just add nitrate and phosphate.
>
> Gunner thinks he can do agriculture without solar energy,
> so obviously science isn't one of his strong points.
>
> http://cosmic.lifeform.org
>
The main use of solar energy in agriculture is for the chemical process
of photosynthesis which all plants use to turn carbon dioxide, water,
nitrogen and other salts and minerals into starch, sugar, and cellulose.
All that other solar stuff is totally unnecessary, and expensive.
Better off drilling a well and buying a Aeromotor wind mill and deep
well lift pump than investing in all that solar stuff that won't do the
jobs that need to be done.
Agriculture is all about simplicity. Seeds, land, water, sunshine and
some good chicken shit or bull shit and you are on your way.
--
Censorship and Gun Control are the political equivalent of binding and
gagging a victim before raping and mugging them.
Such acts are carried out by the same thugs, one with a law degree from
a state pen, the other a law degree from a university for the same sick
perverted purposes which are to remove you from your property, liberty
and dignity, and bend you to will of others.
| |
| Thomas Lee Elifritz 2006-02-18, 11:21 pm |
|
Pope Secola IV wrote:
>
> The main use of solar energy in agriculture is for the chemical process
> of photosynthesis which all plants use to turn carbon dioxide, water,
> nitrogen and other salts and minerals into starch, sugar, and cellulose.
Gee, thanks for sharing.
> All that other solar stuff is totally unnecessary, and expensive.
> Better off drilling a well and buying a Aeromotor wind mill and deep
> well lift pump than investing in all that solar stuff that won't do the
> jobs that need to be done.
What is left of the aquifers are contaminated you idiot.
> Agriculture is all about simplicity. Seeds, land, water, sunshine and
> some good chicken shit or bull shit and you are on your way.
That won't feed six billion soon to be nine billion souls.
http://cosmic.lifeform.org
| |
| Stuart Grey 2006-02-18, 11:21 pm |
| Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
>
> Pope Secola IV wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Gee, thanks for sharing.
>
>
>
>
> What is left of the aquifers are contaminated you idiot.
I recall when the aquifers in the San Joquine/Central valley of
California were contaminated. I recall that they held surveys asking if
we would buy bottled water before it happened. Hell no, I told 'em. We
have the best water in the world.
Shortly after (decade?) that, if you drank the water, you didn't have
kids. I'm pretty sure it was intentional. I knew some guys with the USDA
who went out and monitored the wells, and shut them down, one by one.
Some kind of nematode poison, or something, was dumped into it.
Not everywhere was like that, however.
>
>
> That won't feed six billion soon to be nine billion souls.
Too bad about the billions, but a guy's gotta help himself first before
he can help anyone else. When you can't buy fertilizer, shit is the way
to go! :-)
> http://cosmic.lifeform.org
>
| |
| Cliff 2006-02-19, 12:21 am |
| On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 17:57:14 -0800, Pope Secola IV
<Supreme_rodent@gopher_hole.net> wrote:
>Better off drilling a well and buying a Aeromotor wind mill and deep
>well lift pump than investing in all that solar stuff that won't do the
>jobs that need to be done.
Aquifiers in many places, such as much of Texas, are almost
pumped dry already.
--
Cliff
| |
| Cliff 2006-02-19, 12:21 am |
| On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 18:54:37 -0500, Stuart Grey <stuart.grey@comcast.net> wrote:
>I recall when the aquifers in the San Joquine/Central valley of
>California were contaminated.
Some California waters & soils contain quite a bit of Selenium.
I don't think it was added ....
--
Cliff
| |
| Gunner 2006-02-19, 12:21 am |
| On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 11:20:33 -0800, Pope Secola IV
<Supreme_rodent@gopher_hole.net> wrote:
>Gunner wrote:
>Pray tell me just why all those Asians for thousands of years have been
>carrying honey buckets to their rice crops. ;-)>
<G>
I hope HIV-P2 is reading.
Gunner
"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3
| |
| Gunner 2006-02-19, 12:21 am |
| On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 19:13:44 -0500, Thomas Lee Elifritz
<cosmic@lifeform.org> wrote:
>
>
>zadoc wrote:
>
>
>That's what science is about, solving important problems.
>
>Take seawater for instance. If you take the sodium chloride out of seawater, what you have left is a very
>good hydroponic base solution, a little heavy on magnesium. Just add nitrate and phosphate.
>
Indeed. Assuming you have access to nitrates and phosphates.
>Gunner thinks he can do agriculture without solar energy,
>so obviously science isn't one of his strong points.
Ive made this claim where exactly? Cites?
>
>http://cosmic.lifeform.org
Gunner
"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3
| |
| Gunner 2006-02-19, 12:21 am |
| On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 21:30:26 -0500, Thomas Lee Elifritz
<cosmic@lifeform.org> wrote:
>
>What is left of the aquifers are contaminated you idiot.
Oddly enough..another false hood is spewed.
>
>
>That won't feed six billion soon to be nine billion souls.
Yes and?
We are discussing survivalism using farming. If there suddenly
developed a need for survivalism..what makes you think that all of
those 9 billion mouths will survive for more than 3 months?
And should we care?
Gunner
"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."
- Proverbs 22:3
| |
| Cliff 2006-02-19, 12:21 am |
| On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 03:58:01 GMT, Gunner <gunner@lightspeed.net> wrote:
>I hope HIV-P2 is reading.
Don't strain yourself thinking.
--
Cliff
| |
| Cliff 2006-02-19, 12:21 am |
| On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 04:01:36 GMT, Gunner <gunner@lightspeed.net> wrote:
>We are discussing survivalism using farming.
Changing the subject again?
How well can you pull a plow?
--
Cliff
| |
| Gunner 2006-02-19, 1:21 am |
| On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 13:56:51 -0500, Thomas Lee Elifritz
<cosmic@lifeform.org> wrote:
>Gunner wrote:
>
>
>Why don't you go a figure out how you are going to do agriculture
>without solar energy. I've got better things to do than to argue
>with an obvious crackpot who can't seem to help himself to free
>knowledge on the internet.
>
><plonk>
>
>http://cosmic.lifeform.org
Im still waiting for information on those Molton Salts thing.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
| |
| Pope Secola IV 2006-02-19, 1:21 am |
| Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
>
> Pope Secola IV wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Gee, thanks for sharing.
>
>
>
>
> What is left of the aquifers are contaminated you idiot.
>
Thats news to me. I have been living on underground water for most of my
life and I'll bet I have better health than you. I pass a flight
physical every year.
>
>
>
> That won't feed six billion soon to be nine billion souls.
>
> http://cosmic.lifeform.org
Why sould I want to feed nine billion souls. All I really need of feed
are me, my family and a few people with enough gold or goods to pay for
it.
The rest let them eat cake. (Thank you marie Antonette)
>
--
Censorship and Gun Control are the political equivalent of binding and
gagging a victim before raping and mugging them.
Such acts are carried out by the same thugs, one with a law degree from
a state pen, the other a law degree from a university for the same sick
perverted purposes which are to remove you from your property, liberty
and dignity, and bend you to will of others.
| |
|
| On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 19:13:44 -0500, Thomas Lee Elifritz
<cosmic@lifeform.org> wrote in <43F7B838.A1630AFD@lifeform.org>
:
<Zadoc comments start>
|>
|>
|>zadoc wrote:
|>
|>> Even more importantly, how do you seperate the ones you need from
|>> the ones you want to avoid?
|>
|>That's what science is about, solving important problems.
<Zadoc comments start>
Yes, most of us know this, after all, it should be pretty obvious
even to most people on usenet.:-)
However, many haven't been solved yet, and it is an open question
how many will ever be solved, or solved in time to prevent the
dieoff of most of the human race.
You know, those little problems like controlling population
growth to a sustainable ZPG level, the development of fusion
power, faster than light space travel, providing enough food for
the population of the earth, finding enough water, finding new
antibiotics as some bacteria are fast becoming resistant to most
if not all of the known ones, to name just a few problems.
Oh, yeah, a time machine would be useful, or means of accessing
alternate universes, if they exist. :-)
However, lets not forget the problem of science devising more and
deadlier weapons to put into the hands of the military. Such as
fission and fusion weapons, genetic engineering of plagues, and
so on.
However, to get back to the problem of collecting needed
nutrients from sea water, you haven't told us how you are going
to selectively remove the sodium chloride and magnesium sulfate,
and which of the other elements you wish to retain.
You can find a pretty good list of these at:
http://www.seafriends.org.nz/oceano/seawater.htm
|>
|>Take seawater for instance. If you take the sodium chloride out of seawater, what you have left is a very
|>good hydroponic base solution, a little heavy on magnesium. Just add nitrate and phosphate.
Yes, and where do we find the necessary amounts of nitrates and
phosphates?
As quoted in an earlier post:
--------------
World production is 153 million tones per year. There are
concerns over how long these phosphorous deposits will last. In
case of depletion there could be a serious problem for the worlds
food production since phosphorus is such an essential ingredient
in fertilizers.
In the oceans, the concentration of phosphates is very low,
particularly at the surface. The reason lies partly within the
insolubility of aluminum and calcium phosphates, but in any case
in the oceans phosphate is quickly used up and falls into the
deep as organic debris. There can be more phosphate in rivers and
lakes, resulting in excessive algae growth. For further details
go to environmental effects of phosphorous.
http://www.lenntech.com/Periodic-ch...ements/P-en.htm
|>
|>Gunner thinks he can do agriculture without solar energy,
|>so obviously science isn't one of his strong points.
I hadn't noticed his statement on this, but can assure you that
without somewhere near the present level of incoming solar
energy, agricultural production might be the least of our
problems.
If solar insolation dropped significantly, we would be in a new
ice age. If the ozone layer deteriorates much further, a lot of
the phytoplankton in antarctic waters may die from increased
ultraviolet, creating an oxygen shortage, skin cancers,
cataracts, etc.
The good news, though, is that the sun is unlikely to go nova,
although if it did, our troubles would all be over about 8
minutes later. :-)
Of course, the is the possibility that God will decide to end the
world as predicted in the Bible, in which case nothing science or
the human race can do will make a damned bit of difference. :-)
For those who are interested in this possible outcome, would
suggest that they read Chapter 24 of Matthew.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Mat/Mat024.html
Consider the following:
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached
in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall
the end come.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of
desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy
place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
[snip]
</ Zadoc comments end>
Cheers,
zadoc@invalid.com.au
| |
| Psiclone 2006-02-19, 5:21 am |
| just hook the growlights up to a nuk-u-lar power supply;) we dont need no
stinkiiin sun!=) uh-oh there goes the orbithood! =0
"Stuart Grey" <stuart.grey@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:dYmdnYvwwcrr6WrenZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
>
>
> Shit. The commie stoners at the UW figuerd that one out decades ago.
> There's a big grow light store near the campus.
| |
| Pope Secola IV 2006-02-19, 9:21 am |
| Psiclone wrote:
> just hook the growlights up to a nuk-u-lar power supply;) we dont need no
> stinkiiin sun!=) uh-oh there goes the orbithood! =0
>
> "Stuart Grey" <stuart.grey@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:dYmdnYvwwcrr6WrenZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>
Hell they have to get their wacky tabacky some where. How else are the
going to use that stash of roll papers they have purchased.
--
Censorship and Gun Control are the political equivalent of binding and
gagging a victim before raping and mugging them.
Such acts are carried out by the same thugs, one with a law degree from
a state pen, the other a law degree from a university for the same sick
perverted purposes which are to remove you from your property, liberty
and dignity, and bend you to will of others.
| |
| Thomas Lee Elifritz 2006-02-19, 11:21 am |
| zadoc wrote:
> <Zadoc comments start>
Yes, Zadoc the wise, except when it comes to internet search engines.
> |>zadoc wrote:
> |>
> |>> Even more importantly, how do you seperate the ones you need from
> |>> the ones you want to avoid?
> |>
> |>That's what science is about, solving important problems.
>
> <Zadoc comments start>
>
> Yes, most of us know this, after all, it should be pretty obvious
> even to most people on usenet.:-)
Gee, thanks for sharing.
[absurd comments snipped]
> However, to get back to the problem of collecting needed
> nutrients from sea water, you haven't told us how you are going
> to selectively remove the sodium chloride and magnesium sulfate,
> and which of the other elements you wish to retain.
Let's see, I've described several ways to approach the problem,
I've isolated the problem in a very significant manner,
and I've given you links to internet knowledge.
This is usenet science, when are you going to start participating?
Hint : elements, electronic interactions.
> You can find a pretty good list of these at:
>
> http://www.seafriends.org.nz/oceano/seawater.htm
Gee, thanks for sharing.
> |>Take seawater for instance. If you take the sodium chloride out of seawater, what you have left is a very
> |>good hydroponic base solution, a little heavy on magnesium. Just add nitrate and phosphate.
>
> Yes, and where do we find the necessary amounts of nitrates and
> phosphates?
I've already described that.
> Consider the following:
[crap snipped]
Why bother, it's shit.
http://cosmic.lifeform.org
| |
| Stuart Grey 2006-02-19, 1:21 pm |
| Psiclone wrote:
> just hook the growlights up to a nuk-u-lar power supply;) we dont need no
> stinkiiin sun!=) uh-oh there goes the orbithood! =0
Actually, you don't. It can be done.
> "Stuart Grey" <stuart.grey@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:dYmdnYvwwcrr6WrenZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>
>
>
| |
| Joe Bramblett 2006-02-20, 7:21 am |
| [Followups Trimmed]
In article <eP6dnRHI__8v_WreRVn-vw@web-ster.com>, Pope Secola IV wrote:
> Or do what God (or mother nature if you desire) do, in the fall, gather
> all the animal wastes, put in a large wagon, with set of high speed
> turning flails at the back (driven by the rear wheels), that throw small
> chunks of the animal waste all over the dammed place. Then turn under
> with a plow and let lie over the winter. In the spring you will have
> plenty of fertilizer, with ammonia and other trace elements to grow what
> ever you want.
Why would I want to pay for a machine that flings poo when our elected
officials can spread it so much farther and thicker?
| |
| Joe Bramblett 2006-02-20, 7:21 am |
| In article <b7rfv1hd6n3pov09jku8a03u8pmmueavjp@4ax.com>, Gunner wrote:
> Indeed. Assuming you have access to nitrates and phosphates.
Dunno about you, but I've got a fair supply for a small garden.
http://www.geocities.com/impatients...dFertilizer.htm
|
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