Alternative Power sources - Results: 5000 Watt Gen Head on 4 HP engine?

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Results: 5000 Watt Gen Head on 4 HP engine?

Ulysses

2006-02-14, 10:21 pm

OK. I started it up and tried it out on the most important thing first:
electric coffee maker. No problem running the 650 watt coffee maker and a
battery charger on 2 amps. The problem is that the "electronic" coffee
maker kept shutting off. This may be due to a bad extention cord but I'm
not ruling out frequency as I do not yet have a frequency meter. I also
connected an electric heater and tried it on the 750, 1000, and 1500 watt
settings. No problem on the lower settings but it did not like the high
setting and the engine was bogging down so I immediately disconnected it.
Total with no problem was about 1700 watts, more or less.

For comparison's sake I next tried it on my 1/2 HP air compressor. My Honda
eu2000 will barely run it. My Coleman Pulse 1850 would not. This ran it
easily.

I next tried it out on my 13,500 BTU AC on my travel trailer. The Honda
will barely run it and will shut down when the compressor stops and
restarts. The Coleman would not run it at all. This ran it easily and had
no problem when the compressor stopped and restarted. The engine slowed
down momentarily when it started (no more than on a real 5000 watt
generator) and immediately recovered.

Next I ran my RV microwave which is rated at about 1350 watts and is very
particular about input voltage and frequency etc. With most cheap
generators and inverters it takes a long time to heat and is useless for
such things as microwave popcorn. I put in a cup of water and it was very
hot after 90 seconds. It seems as good as with the Honda eu2000.

For those who doubted that this whole thing would even go together the
mounting holes on the engine, the taper on the driveshafts, and threads on
the shafts for attaching the rotor were both the same. They are also the
same on the B&S engine that was once on my Coleman 1850. The original
Tecumseh 10 HP engine has a longer drive (crank) shaft and required a spacer
for this particular generator head which was a replacement for the POS
Homelite head that it originally came with. J609A is the tapered shaft
designation and I believe (but I may be wrong) that J609B designates the
same taper but with a longer shaft.

Now it remains to be seen if it will use considerably less gas that with a
10 HP engine for a comparable load. For one thing the little Honda engine
almost always starts with one pull. The Tecumseh usually takes about 3
pulls on a nice warm day and about 25-50 pulls if it's below 50 F. On those
days I always pulled out the spark plug, cleaned it, and poured a tiny bit
of gasoline in there. It helps.

"Ulysses" <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11v4gfebkk945b2@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Richard W." <raweich@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:5r-dnc5liKNwzmzenZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@scnresearch.com...
is[color=darkred]
> engine
2000[color=darkred]
> this
doing[color=darkred]
> I'd
> really
end[color=darkred]
> it.
I[color=darkred]
It[color=darkred]
> and
rated[color=darkred]
> at
> it's
>
> You also have to realize that some gen heads that output 240 volts are are
> rated at, say, 5000 watts are 2500 watts for each end at 120 volts. I
> suspect it's possible to squeeze a bit more out but probably not a lot
more.
> !500 watts may have been exceeding the rating of that particular end of
the
> generator.
>
> Meanwhile, I put it all together and I'm about ready to go start it up,
> adjust the voltage, and see what happens. Everything fit together just
fine
> i.e. the tapers on the shafts were the same and the only modification I
had
> to make was add one extra washer to the bolt that hold on the rotor (and
add
> a support under the gen head as the Honda engine is a bit shorter than the
> Tecumseh 10 HP it is being switched with.
>
>

Harry Chickpea

2006-02-15, 1:21 am

"Ulysses" <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote:

>The Tecumseh usually takes about 3
>pulls on a nice warm day and about 25-50 pulls if it's below 50 F. On those
>days I always pulled out the spark plug, cleaned it, and poured a tiny bit
>of gasoline in there. It helps.

Uh, why not use starting fluid? Carb cleaner will work in a pinch.

George Ghio

2006-02-15, 6:21 am

Ulysses wrote:
> OK. I started it up and tried it out on the most important thing first:
> electric coffee maker. No problem running the 650 watt coffee maker and a
> battery charger on 2 amps. The problem is that the "electronic" coffee
> maker kept shutting off. This may be due to a bad extention cord but I'm
> not ruling out frequency as I do not yet have a frequency meter. I also
> connected an electric heater and tried it on the 750, 1000, and 1500 watt
> settings. No problem on the lower settings but it did not like the high
> setting and the engine was bogging down so I immediately disconnected it.
> Total with no problem was about 1700 watts, more or less.
>

Electric heater? 750, 1000, 1500 watt.

So 1500 Watts was pushing it? Or was it 1700W more or less? Bit unclear.

After all watts are watts. If it had trouble with the heater at 1500W I
can't see it running 1700W of misc. loads.

Still and all if even 1500W is useful to your needs then you are on a
winner.

You have done well to have everything match as it is as often as not
that things just don't match.

Keep us informed, interesting project.

George

wmbjk

2006-02-15, 11:21 am

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 17:18:48 -0800, "Ulysses"
<therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote:

>OK. I started it up and tried it out

<snipped report>

Good report, thanks for taking the time to write it up.

Wayne

andre_54005@yahoo.com

2006-02-15, 11:21 am

Ulysses wrote:
<< snip >>
> I next tried it out on my 13,500 BTU AC on my travel trailer. The Honda
> will barely run it and will shut down when the compressor stops and
> restarts. The Coleman would not run it at all. This ran it easily and had
> no problem when the compressor stopped and restarted. The engine slowed
> down momentarily when it started (no more than on a real 5000 watt
> generator) and immediately recovered.
>
<< snip >>

The advantage of the 5000 watt alternator even with an undersize engine
is the larger rotating mass and lower electrical resistance then would
normally be found in a 4 HP generator. Makes easy work of starting
surge loads like the AC compressor.

If you get a chance take a look at an original Lister generator. A 5
or 6 HP engine with 2 flywheels each of which is almost 300 lbs, belt
drive to the starter/alternator which also had a fairly large flywheel
alongside the pully. They would start and run a load that would put a
modern 6 HP generator, flat on it's face.
__________
Andre' B.

Ulysses

2006-02-15, 11:21 pm

"George Ghio" <AKA@nomailhere.com> wrote in message
news:43f2fc2c_4@news.chariot.net.au...
>
>
> Ulysses wrote:
a[color=darkred]
I'm[color=darkred]
watt[color=darkred]
it.[color=darkred]
>
> Electric heater? 750, 1000, 1500 watt.
>
> So 1500 Watts was pushing it? Or was it 1700W more or less? Bit unclear.

Sorry about being unclear. That was 1500 watts in addition to the 650 watt
coffee maker plus a battery charger charging at 2 amps for a total of around
2300 watts on both ends of the gen head. It was fine at around 1700 watts.

>
> After all watts are watts. If it had trouble with the heater at 1500W I
> can't see it running 1700W of misc. loads.
>
> Still and all if even 1500W is useful to your needs then you are on a
> winner.

I was very dissappointed with my old Coleman Pulse 1850 that was struggling
at 1500 watts which was it's continuos rating. They are really pushing
their ratings if you ask me. This configuration very easily will handle
that load with the same HP engine.

>
> You have done well to have everything match as it is as often as not
> that things just don't match.
>
> Keep us informed, interesting project.
>
> George

Ulysses

2006-02-15, 11:21 pm

"Harry Chickpea" <hchickpeaREMOVEME@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:43f8ac1f.50516877@news.east.earthlink.net...
> "Ulysses" <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
those[color=darkred]
bit[color=darkred]
>
> Uh, why not use starting fluid? Carb cleaner will work in a pinch.
>

Well, I have two cans and nothing comes out of either when I push the
nozzle. My experience with carb cleaner is that it kills the engine. It
would not have occured to me to try it for gettting an engine started.

Ulysses

2006-02-15, 11:21 pm

<andre_54005@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1140012267.054566.71940@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Ulysses wrote:
> << snip >>
had[color=darkred]
> << snip >>
>
> The advantage of the 5000 watt alternator even with an undersize engine
> is the larger rotating mass and lower electrical resistance then would
> normally be found in a 4 HP generator. Makes easy work of starting
> surge loads like the AC compressor.
>
> If you get a chance take a look at an original Lister generator. A 5
> or 6 HP engine with 2 flywheels each of which is almost 300 lbs, belt
> drive to the starter/alternator which also had a fairly large flywheel
> alongside the pully. They would start and run a load that would put a
> modern 6 HP generator, flat on it's face.
> __________
> Andre' B.
>

I've read a bit here and there about the Listers but didn't really know what
they were. Now I'll have to look them up.

That makes sense about the larger rotating mass etc.

I forget to mention that when I was running the 13,500 BTU AC on my travel
trailer I was also running a battery charger at 20.5 amps on the other end.
The charger (Vector Smart Charger) was running steady the whole time with
the output constant. It tends to drop considerably if the supply voltage
drops as with an inadequate generator.

Ulysses

2006-02-15, 11:21 pm

"Ulysses" <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11v50bu1b3ie389@corp.supernews.com...
> OK. I started it up and tried it out on the most important thing first:
> electric coffee maker. No problem running the 650 watt coffee maker and a
> battery charger on 2 amps. The problem is that the "electronic" coffee
> maker kept shutting off. This may be due to a bad extention cord but I'm
> not ruling out frequency as I do not yet have a frequency meter.

I tried it again with the coffee pot without the extension cord and it
worked fine. I still need to get a frequency meter though.

Steve Spence

2006-02-16, 1:21 pm

Ulysses wrote:
> "Ulysses" <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:11v50bu1b3ie389@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
>
> I tried it again with the coffee pot without the extension cord and it
> worked fine. I still need to get a frequency meter though.
>
>
a Kill-A-Watt will give you frequency, volts, amps, VA, watts, PF, and
kWh, and hours, all for $29.

--
Steve Spence
Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

Ulysses

2006-02-16, 3:21 pm

"Steve Spence" <sspence@green-trust.org> wrote in message
news:43f4aa7b$1_1@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> Ulysses wrote:
a[color=darkred]
I'm[color=darkred]
> a Kill-A-Watt will give you frequency, volts, amps, VA, watts, PF, and
> kWh, and hours, all for $29.

Thanks. I was looking at them on eBay etc. a while back. I don't remember
why I didn't buy one yet though...

My *other* 5000 watt generator (9 HP Honda GX engine) that I use daily for
my 230 volt well pump and, up until just recently, to run my air compressor,
reads only about 101 VAC! When I bought the gen head (Mecc Alte Spa 5000
watt continuous, 6200 surge) that I'm using on the 4 HP engine I was told
that if I adjusted the engine speed to where I got about 124 VAC at no load
then the frequency should be very close. This makes me think the frequency
*must* be way off on the 5000 watt/9 HP generator. It has always had
trouble starting my air compressor on cold mornings but since I only use it
for pumps, saws, etc I guess the frequency must not have been very
important. I bought the thing about 4 or 5 years ago, put oil and gas in
it, and started it up. I never adjusted the engine speed (I do, just in
case you were wondering, clean the air cleaner and adjust the valves and
spark plug when needed).

>
> --
> Steve Spence
> Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org
> Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net
> http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

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