Alternative Power sources - Deployable Doubt Dispellers

Author

Deployable Doubt Dispellers

nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

2006-02-23, 12:21 pm

The most popular forms of solar heating seem uneconomical these days, with
high costs and low solar fractions (20% for some FSEC-certified water heaters),
so they seem to require customers who are concerned about climate change,
among other things. If solar house heating were to simply cost less than
other forms of house heating, more people might use it...

After hearing lots of doubt that low-cost solar house heating can work with
a high solar fraction outside of the Southwest from local architects and
reporters and others who read SBIC guidelines that say houses in Phila can only
be 60% solar-heated at best and seeing lots of "solar houses" that are only
30-50% solar-heated vs those "with no other form of heat," I think we should
dispatch Deployable Doubt Dispellers ("D-cubes") to regional Infestations of
Doubt, eg unboltable 8' cubes that stay 70 F for a few cold cloudy days, with
little windows so people can peer in to see big dial thermometers inside.

Lots of people (eg AIA and SBIC and SBSE) seem to have forgotten that things
like this can be engineered, notwithstanding high-school physics and houses by
PE Norman Saunders, who calculates needs for "purchased heat" with Gaussian
weather stats in the same way that other engineers calculate 100-year floods:

The ASHRAE 1954 Handbook gives the 1% and 2 1/2% temperatures for Boston as
0 and 8 F (-17.8 and -13.4C.) For -15C, the holding time for our houses is
three days, giving a standard deviation of 7.8 Kelvin degrees. In December,
the 1% temperature is 2.1 standard deviations down... and so can be expected
to occur about once every 4.5 years. This suggests the need to purchase heat
[or wear a sweater :-] in December once in 35 years.

NREL says 1000 Btu/ft^2 of sun falls on a south wall on an average 30 F day
with a 38 F max in Philadelphia. A direct-gain "mass and glass" D-cube (like
most solar houses) with an 8'x8' R4 south window with 50% solar transmission
could be 80 F on an average day if 0.5x8'x8'x1000 = 24h(80-30)G Btu, with
a thermal conductance G = 26.7 Btu/h-F max. Subtracting 16 Btu/h-F for the
window leaves 26.7-16 = 10.7 Btu/h-F for other surfaces, eg 4x64ft^2/R28.5
= 9 for the ceiling and non-south walls, with 2 2" polyiso foilboard "R13"
layers, counting R2.5 for the indoor foils, which makes G = 25. If the cube
temp falls to 70 F after 5 30 F cloudy days, 70 = 30+(80-30)e^(-120/RC) makes
time constant RC = -120/ln((70-30)/(80-30)) = 538 hours, so it needs thermal
mass C = RCxG = 538x25 = 13,450 Btu/F, eg 13450/4/8 = 420 nestable 9" square
x 13" tall 4-gallon ROPAK plastic water tubs stacked 7-high x 10-wide x 6-deep
in a 91" x 90" x 54" wall, over half the cube's volume.

An indirect-gain D-cube might have an 8'x8' isolated sunspace or air heater
with R1 glazing with 90% solar transmission (eg $1/ft^2 20-year corrugated
Dynaglas polycarbonate greenhouse roofing) with one-way plastic film dampers
and half the insulation, eg one 2" layer of foil-faced board for walls and
ceiling with G = 5x64/R15.5 = 21 Btu/h-F. If the air heate gains 0.9x8x8x1000
= 57600 Btu = 6h(T-30)64ft^2/R1 [the daytime sunspace loss] +18h(T-30)64/R16.5
[the night loss from the air heater] +24h(T-30)4x64/R15.5 [the 24-hour loss
for the rest of the cube], T = 98 F, If we keep it 80 F max with ventilation,
C = RCxG = 11,107 Btu/F, eg 347 water tubs stacked 7-high x 10-wide x 5-deep
in a 91" x 90" x 45" wall, about half the cube's volume.

An isolated-store D-cube might have less mass with a higher temp swing: 8'x8'
of Dynaglas solar siding might be T (F) inside for 6 hours on a Jan day if
57600 = 6h(T-30)8x8/R1+18h(T-30)8x8/R16.5+24h(70-30)4x64/R15.5, so T = 122 F.
If the cube needs (70-30)21 = 840 Btu/h and each stacked tub has 3.25 ft^2 of
surface and 5 Btu/h-F of slow-moving-air to water conductance, N tubs with
Tmin = 70+840/(5N) water can keep the cube 70 F. With an average water temp
Ta = (122+Tmin)/2, the tubs lose Et = 120h(Ta-30)64ft^2/R16.5 Btu over 5 days.
If the rest loses Ec = 120h(70-30)4x64/15.5 = 79,277 and 32N(122-Tmin) = Et+Ec,
N = 69 and Tmin = 72, so we might have a 7-high x 10-wide x 1-deep 91" x 90"
x 9" tub wall, about 10% of the cube volume, with a 1" foilboard wall between
the tubs and the living space, hinged at the top, with a passive Thermofor
vent arm to open it when the room cools to 70 F.

An active D-cube might have 32' of fin-tube pipe below a 2" foamboard ceiling
and walls and a 6'x6'x2'-deep unpressurized EPDM-lined heat storage tank on
the ground with a PV-powered 10 watt pump for heat collection. If 57,600 Btu
= 6h(Ts-30)64ft^2/R1 [daytime glazing loss] + 6h(70-30)4x64/15.5 [daytime loss
from the rest of the cube = 14,865 Btu] + 6h(Ts-Tw)160 [stored heat], then
the sunspace temp Ts = 48.5 + 0.714Tw, so Tw = 115 and Ts = 131. We might
distribute heat from the tank with more fin-tube under the floor or a damper
and Thermofor arm or a Honeywell 6161B1000 damper actuator (which only uses
2 watts when moving) to allow warm air to rise out of the floor... 84 ft^2
of tank surface with 5x84 = 420 Btu/h-F of slow-moving airfilm conductance
could supply 840 Btu/h at 70+ 840/420 = 72 F. Keeping the cube 70 F for 8
hours and 50 F for 16 hours on a cloudy day takes (8h(70-30)+16(50-30))21
= 13440 Btu, so the tank might store heat for 2x6x6x62.33(115-72)/13440 = 14
30 F cloudy days in a row. With a $60 1"x300' PE pipe coil in the tank, hot
water for outdoor showers could be an option for certain climates and seasons.

We might deploy D-cubes to Rifton and Port Jervis and Harlem, NY, Kempton and
Phila and Pottstown and Bryn Mawr, PA, a wintertime MREF or ASES conference
or DOE Solar Decathlon, the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry, and lots
of YMCAs and high schools.

Nick

Morris Dovey

2006-02-23, 2:21 pm

nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu (in dtkm63$2u6@acadia.ece.villanova.edu)
said:

| The most popular forms of solar heating seem uneconomical these
| days, with high costs and low solar fractions (20% for some
| FSEC-certified water heaters), so they seem to require customers
| who are concerned about climate change, among other things. If
| solar house heating were to simply cost less than
| other forms of house heating, more people might use it...
|
| After hearing lots of doubt that low-cost solar house heating can
| work with
| a high solar fraction outside of the Southwest from local
| architects and reporters and others who read SBIC guidelines that
| say houses in Phila can only be 60% solar-heated at best and seeing
| lots of "solar houses" that are only 30-50% solar-heated vs those
| "with no other form of heat," I think we should dispatch Deployable
| Doubt Dispellers ("D-cubes") to regional Infestations of Doubt, eg
| unboltable 8' cubes that stay 70 F for a few cold cloudy days, with
| little windows so people can peer in to see big dial thermometers
| inside.

Nick...

AIA is headquartered close by you in downtown Philly - why don't you
drop in and discuss such a project with them? If you can get the AIA
to buy in on the project, I think your "D-Cubes" would be fairly easy
to fabricate...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com

2006-02-23, 2:21 pm

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 11:31:16 -0600, "Morris Dovey" <mrdovey@iedu.com>
wrote:

>nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu (in dtkm63$2u6@acadia.ece.villanova.edu)
>said:
>
>| The most popular forms of solar heating seem uneconomical these
>| days, with high costs and low solar fractions (20% for some
>| FSEC-certified water heaters), so they seem to require customers
>| who are concerned about climate change, among other things. If
>| solar house heating were to simply cost less than
>| other forms of house heating, more people might use it...
>|
>| After hearing lots of doubt that low-cost solar house heating can
>| work with
>| a high solar fraction outside of the Southwest from local
>| architects and reporters and others who read SBIC guidelines that
>| say houses in Phila can only be 60% solar-heated at best and seeing
>| lots of "solar houses" that are only 30-50% solar-heated vs those
>| "with no other form of heat," I think we should dispatch Deployable
>| Doubt Dispellers ("D-cubes") to regional Infestations of Doubt, eg
>| unboltable 8' cubes that stay 70 F for a few cold cloudy days, with
>| little windows so people can peer in to see big dial thermometers
>| inside.
>
>Nick...
>
>AIA is headquartered close by you in downtown Philly - why don't you
>drop in and discuss such a project with them? If you can get the AIA
>to buy in on the project, I think your "D-Cubes" would be fairly easy
>to fabricate...

As are his eternal 'calculations' :-)

--

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nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

2006-02-23, 2:21 pm

Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> wrote:

>AIA is headquartered close by you in downtown Philly - why don't you
>drop in and discuss such a project with them?

That's a thought, altho they seem more interested in lip service than serious
solar house heating. Many of their continuing ed seminars for members are
cheap infomercials, eg $15 for a full day including breakfast, lunch,
cocktails and dinner :-) The local Committee on the Environment chair
seems completely uninterested in solar house heating.

Nick

Morris Dovey

2006-02-23, 5:21 pm

nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu (in dtksbb$98s@acadia.ece.villanova.edu)
said:

| Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> wrote:
|
|| AIA is headquartered close by you in downtown Philly - why don't
|| you drop in and discuss such a project with them?
|
| That's a thought, altho they seem more interested in lip service
| than serious solar house heating. Many of their continuing ed
| seminars for members are cheap infomercials, eg $15 for a full day
| including breakfast, lunch, cocktails and dinner :-) The local
| Committee on the Environment chair seems completely uninterested
| in solar house heating.

Committee on the Environment? Wrong target! You need to find out who
the _technology_ guru is and talk to them. You and I are geeks - that
person may or may not be a geek but you'll need to stuff your geek hat
into your pocket and put on your best imitation of a salesman's hat
and do some serious and enthusiastic idea selling. The cloutful person
with the greatest interest in (believe it or not) _new_technology_ is
your customer!

We all know there's nothing new about the sun - but architecturally
engineered solutions using modern materials _are_ new. It's not
difficult to picture state of the art products in a Sharper Image
context. From the perspective of this midwesterner, the whole damn
architectural community is beginning to look like a bunch of fat,
dumb, lazy plodders who're abdicating the leadership role that they
should be striving for (and holding!)

I haven't been in Philly since 2000. It's an _alive_ place, full of
people who like to make things happen. Get off campus and soak up some
of that "can-do" enthusiasm. Get over to city hall and find out who's
responsible for pushing the city-wide wireless service. Take them to
lunch and share some enthusiasm - and find out what it takes to impart
some motion to your ideas. It's just got to be worth the price of a
good lunch (or five) to learn this stuff!

FYI, the lamp here beside me (with a beautiful "prairie style" leaded
glass shade) came from the AIA bookstore. I stopped in and met a few
people (no fun visiting without spending some time shmoozing with the
locals) and couldn't resist carrying away the lamp. They're located at
117 South 17th Street. Take the bus - parking is a bit iffy downtown.
You might even try calling 569-3168 and asking who a good initial
contact person might be.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

HeyBub

2006-02-23, 6:21 pm

nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
> The most popular forms of solar heating seem uneconomical these days,
> with high costs and low solar fractions ...

You sould EXACTLY like Al Gore.

nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

2006-02-23, 7:21 pm

HeyBub <heybubNOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:

>nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:

>
>You sould EXACTLY like Al Gore.

Really? Where did he say that?

Nick

nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

2006-02-24, 8:21 am

Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> wrote:

>|| AIA is headquartered close by you in downtown Philly - why don't
>|| you drop in and discuss such a project with them?
>|
>| That's a thought, altho they seem more interested in lip service
>| than serious solar house heating. Many of their continuing ed
>| seminars for members are cheap infomercials, eg $15 for a full day
>| including breakfast, lunch, cocktails, and dinner :-) The local
>| Committee on the Environment chair seems completely uninterested
>| in solar house heating.
>
>Committee on the Environment? Wrong target! You need to find out who
>the _technology_ guru is and talk to them.

I took your suggestion and tried to find The Technology Guru, but there
isn't one. Nor is there a technology committee. There are a few archies
who practice "sustainable design," but nowadays, that can may have more
to do with things like feng shui and milk based paint than energy. And
few of the Phila AIA members do residential design.

OTOH, One Phila org "would love a D-cube on the back lawn." They want
to know how much it would cost... The high-temp isolated-store version
might be nice, with 12 2"x4'x8' $30 pieces of foil-faced foamboard and
$64 for 8'x8' of Dynaglas. I'd donate some of my 6 tons of Unistrut.

Nick

Morris Dovey

2006-02-24, 9:21 am

nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu (in dtmt5m$g86@acadia.ece.villanova.edu)
said:

| Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> wrote:
|
|||| AIA is headquartered close by you in downtown Philly - why don't
|||| you drop in and discuss such a project with them?
|||
||| That's a thought, altho they seem more interested in lip service
||| than serious solar house heating. Many of their continuing ed
||| seminars for members are cheap infomercials, eg $15 for a full day
||| including breakfast, lunch, cocktails, and dinner :-) The local
||| Committee on the Environment chair seems completely uninterested
||| in solar house heating.
||
|| Committee on the Environment? Wrong target! You need to find out
|| who the _technology_ guru is and talk to them.
|
| I took your suggestion and tried to find The Technology Guru, but
| there isn't one. Nor is there a technology committee. There are a
| few archies who practice "sustainable design," but nowadays, that
| can may have more to do with things like feng shui and milk based
| paint than energy. And few of the Phila AIA members do residential
| design.

Every engineering organization I've ever encountered has had at least
one technology-driving person. Usually they're the folks who have the
latest gizmo from Sharper Image on their desk or one of
Hammacher-Schlemmer's gee-whiz kits assembled and sitting on a
bookcase. It's both amazing and disappointing that the AIA office
lacks anyone like that.

| OTOH, One Phila org "would love a D-cube on the back lawn." They
| want to know how much it would cost... The high-temp isolated-store
| version might be nice, with 12 2"x4'x8' $30 pieces of foil-faced
| foamboard and $64 for 8'x8' of Dynaglas. I'd donate some of my 6
| tons of Unistrut.

Encourage their interest! As I recall, Philly has an art college that
might turn out to be a good external design resource if you present
the project as an aesthetics challenge (and an opportunity for
"demonstrating excellence to the community"). You might even consider
asking them to judge an open design contest.

Enlist location support, too. Philly has a number of really good spots
where D-Cubes could be located - Rittenhouse Square, at the entrance
to the library, ...

And once you have some nice clean drawings in hand and locations
arranged, don't be hesitant to look for "foreward-thinking" sponsors
to underwrite the construction costs in return for some kind of
on-site public acknowledgement of their contributions. The marketing
folks in some substantial organizations (PHLX at 1900 Market, for
example) might be of considerable help on this project (and future
projects, if this one is done well).

Figure out a practical schedule that runs from the present right
through tear-down and disposal - include contingency provisions for
things like restoration/recovery from vandalism and anything else that
you can imagine going wrong. The ability to show that your plan covers
everyone's concerns will be an essential ingredient for getting the
support you'll need to make it happen.

Remember that selling is the art of giving people something to say
"yes" to. :-)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

2006-02-24, 10:21 am

Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> wrote:

>| OTOH, One Phila org "would love a D-cube on the back lawn..."
>
>Encourage their interest!

I'm trying.

>Figure out a practical schedule that runs from the present right
>through tear-down and disposal - include contingency provisions for
>things like restoration/recovery from vandalism and anything else that
>you can imagine going wrong...

This would be unboltable, and maybe inside a fence...

>Remember that selling is the art of giving people something to say
>"yes" to. :-)

Hey hey. Maybe you'll put a D-cube in back of Big Johnson's Bar & Grill :-)

>--
>Morris Dovey
>DeSoto Solar
>DeSoto, Iowa USA
>http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

Nick

Morris Dovey

2006-02-25, 2:21 pm

nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu (in dtn36b$mao@acadia.ece.villanova.edu)
said:

| Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> wrote:
|
|| Remember that selling is the art of giving people something to say
|| "yes" to. :-)
|
| Hey hey. Maybe you'll put a D-cube in back of Big Johnson's Bar &
| Grill :-)

It might be fun to install collectors on all the sub, giros, and
cheese steak wagons parked on Philadelphia curbs and let the vendors
do the talking... :-D

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto

Stretch

2006-02-26, 12:28 pm

Nick,
If you want to get into practical solar energy, move to Hawaii.

There are lots of solar panels there, as weather is mild with wide
daily swings and energy is expensive. I recently went there for amy
25th anniversayr cruise. I was ammazed at how many homes had solar
panels on the roofs. But it all makes sense. Mild temperatures and
the highest energy costs in the USA. I hear solar is popular in Israel
too, for the same reasons.

We did solar in western PA from 1976 to 1984, when my family plumbing &
HVAC business moved to South Carolina. Solar was very frustrating
then. We had low energy costs, cold winter weather and the second
cloudiest area in the USA after the Seatle area.

Also repair costs were high and the controls were unreliable.

Solar will come back when gasoline, gas, oil and electricity prices get
high enough. That day may be coming sooner than we want it to. The
SUVs will become dinosaurs about the same time for most people.

Stretch

nick pine

2006-02-27, 9:21 am

Stretch wrote:

> If you want to get into practical solar energy, move to Hawaii.

Not much need for space heating there :-)

> I recently went there for amy 25th anniversayr cruise. I was ammazed
> at how many homes had solar panels on the roofs.

And the water heating market is well-served, as it is in Puerto Rico.

> We did solar in western PA from 1976 to 1984, when my family plumbing &
> HVAC business moved to South Carolina. Solar was very frustrating
> then. We had low energy costs, cold winter weather and the second
> cloudiest area in the USA after the Seatle area.

Cold weather is good... Pittsburgh has reasonable sun, 600Btu/ft^2 on a
south wall on a 31.5 F December day, with 600/(68-31.5) = 16.4 Btu/DD,
vs 900/(68-35.8) = 28.0 for Phila, 420/(68-40.5) = 17.1 for Seattle,
610/(68-26.5) = 15.8 for Binghamton, NY, 560/(68-29.1) = 15.6 for
Rochester, and 0/(68-(-11.2)) = 0 for Barrow, AK :-)

> Also repair costs were high and the controls were unreliable.

And simple integrated systems are good, vs panels on the roof.

> Solar will come back when gasoline, gas, oil and electricity prices get
> high enough.

Solar space heating is economical right now, IMO. Houses need siding.
A $1 square foot of Dynaglas polycarbonate solar siding in Pittsburgh
might collect 0.9x600 = 540 Btu and lose 6h(70-35)1ft^2/R1 = 210
on an average December day, for a net gain of 330 Btu/ft^2.

Nick

Derek Broughton

2006-02-27, 12:21 pm

nick pine wrote:

> Stretch wrote:
>

Arguably, Nova Scotia has lower energy costs (certainly lower electricity -
probably not oil & gas), colder winter weather, and many fog days. Even
so, solar water heating works very well. Dartmouth's Thermo-dynamics does
a roaring business with them, and I haven't come across a dissatisfied
customer yet.
[color=darkred]
>
> And simple integrated systems are good, vs panels on the roof.

T-D will put panels on your roof, and last week I was quoted, by a third
party, an average of $100 for maintenance costs over 10 years.
>
>
> Solar space heating is economical right now, IMO.

It certainly is. As is DHW.
--
derek

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