|
Home > Archive > Alternative Power sources > April 2007 > Gas powered generator
You are viewing an archived Text-only version of the thread.
To view this thread in it's original format and/or if you want to reply to
this thread please [click here]
| Author |
Gas powered generator
|
|
| Wonderer 2007-03-31, 5:25 pm |
| You can find cheap small(1kw) gasoline generators but they are so
noisy. I would be interested in a low powered quiet(not fuel cell)
efficient propane generator, If I could fine one? Something I could
screw up a 1lb propane cylinder and have hours of electricity. They
have a compact furnace in Europe that also generates electricity for
home use, but very expensive.
| |
| Anthony Matonak 2007-03-31, 5:25 pm |
| Wonderer wrote:
> You can find cheap small(1kw) gasoline generators but they are so
> noisy. I would be interested in a low powered quiet(not fuel cell)
> efficient propane generator, If I could fine one? Something I could
> screw up a 1lb propane cylinder and have hours of electricity. They
> have a compact furnace in Europe that also generates electricity for
> home use, but very expensive.
You might look for thermophotovoltaic generators. I'm not sure if they
make them in larger sizes but I have heard they are looking at them
for hybrid electric cars.
Anthony
| |
| Vaughn Simon 2007-03-31, 5:25 pm |
|
"Wonderer" <carlo.germain@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1175373795.229988.236910@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> You can find cheap small(1kw) gasoline generators but they are so
> noisy. I would be interested in a low powered quiet(not fuel cell)
> efficient propane generator, If I could fine one? Something I could
> screw up a 1lb propane cylinder and have hours of electricity. They
> have a compact furnace in Europe that also generates electricity for
> home use, but very expensive.
The best I can think of in that class are the 1 KW inverter generators made
my Honda and Yamaha. They are quiet and efficient, particularly when used on
small loads. They come from the factory equipped to run on gasoline, but
propane conversion kits may be available. They cost around $700.00. If low
noise, high efficiency, pure sine wave, and reliability are important to you,
they are worth the money. I have two of the Yamaha units on the shelf at work
specifically for running communications closets following power failure.
Vaughn
>
| |
|
| On Mar 31, 3:10 pm, "Vaughn Simon" <vaughnsimonHATESS...@att.FAKE.net>
wrote:
> "Wonderer" <carlo.germ...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1175373795.229988.236910@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> The best I can think of in that class are the 1 KW inverter generators made
> my Honda and Yamaha. They are quiet and efficient, particularly when used on
> small loads. They come from the factory equipped to run on gasoline, but
> propane conversion kits may be available. They cost around $700.00. If low
> noise, high efficiency, pure sine wave, and reliability are important to you,
> they are worth the money. I have two of the Yamaha units on the shelf at work
> specifically for running communications closets following power failure.
>
> Vaughn
I would whole-heartedly indorse your recommendation. I have a Honda
EU2000i and a Honda EU3000i which are very quiet. I run them on
gasoline, but I also have heard that natural gas and propane adapters
are available.
If you were going to get a 1KW model, I would probably go for the
Yamaha which is slightly quieter than the Honda 1KW model, at least on
paper.
If a person wanted something that was super-quiet, and could afford
it, and didn't mind the fact that it's so damned heavy, I would go
with the Honda EU3000i ($2000) and then run it at about 1/4 output.
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outdoor...45/0/specs.aspx
http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/gensup.asp
| |
| Thomas Horne 2007-04-01, 9:25 pm |
| mg wrote:
> On Mar 31, 3:10 pm, "Vaughn Simon" <vaughnsimonHATESS...@att.FAKE.net>
> wrote:
>
> I would whole-heartedly indorse your recommendation. I have a Honda
> EU2000i and a Honda EU3000i which are very quiet. I run them on
> gasoline, but I also have heard that natural gas and propane adapters
> are available.
>
> If you were going to get a 1KW model, I would probably go for the
> Yamaha which is slightly quieter than the Honda 1KW model, at least on
> paper.
>
> If a person wanted something that was super-quiet, and could afford
> it, and didn't mind the fact that it's so damned heavy, I would go
> with the Honda EU3000i ($2000) and then run it at about 1/4 output.
>
> http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outdoor...45/0/specs.aspx
> http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/gensup.asp
>
Be cautious in your generator selection if your going to run it on
natural gas. The capacity of the generator drops off sharply from it's
nominal rating when run on gaseous fuel. That does not make it a bad
fuel choice because were a reliable supply of natural gas is available
it will allow the engine to run cleaner and without the twice daily
refueling.
--
Tom Horne
| |
| Karl S 2007-04-02, 3:25 am |
| Thomas Horne wrote:
> mg wrote:
> Be cautious in your generator selection if your going to run it on
> natural gas. The capacity of the generator drops off sharply from it's
> nominal rating when run on gaseous fuel. That does not make it a bad
> fuel choice because were a reliable supply of natural gas is available
> it will allow the engine to run cleaner and without the twice daily
> refueling.
> --
> Tom Horne
This is slightly off-topic, but I have a portable gasoline-fueled
generator sold by Coleman. Can anyone here tell me how long gasoline can
be stored in the generator's fuel tank? I tried using Sta-Bil in the
fuel last fall, but it did not over-winter well and the generator had to
be serviced. Even now, it surges unless slightly "choked".
Karl S.
| |
| clare at snyder.on.ca 2007-04-02, 3:25 am |
| On Mon, 02 Apr 2007 02:03:51 GMT, Thomas Horne
<hornetd@mindspring.com> wrote:
>mg wrote:
>Be cautious in your generator selection if your going to run it on
>natural gas. The capacity of the generator drops off sharply from it's
>nominal rating when run on gaseous fuel. That does not make it a bad
>fuel choice because were a reliable supply of natural gas is available
>it will allow the engine to run cleaner and without the twice daily
>refueling.
PROPERLY converted engines produce virtually the same power as
gasoline powered engines, but conversion is a LITTLE more complicated
than spudding in to the carb or replacing the carb with a propane or
natural gas "carb"
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
| |
| clare at snyder.on.ca 2007-04-02, 3:25 am |
| On Sun, 01 Apr 2007 19:35:24 -0700, Karl S
<karls@sysmatrix.munged.net> wrote:
>Thomas Horne wrote:
>This is slightly off-topic, but I have a portable gasoline-fueled
>generator sold by Coleman. Can anyone here tell me how long gasoline can
>be stored in the generator's fuel tank? I tried using Sta-Bil in the
>fuel last fall, but it did not over-winter well and the generator had to
>be serviced. Even now, it surges unless slightly "choked".
>
>Karl S.
Over winter I've not had a problem (november to april) but SUMMER
storage is a different story. 2 months in an unsealed tank is
stretching things. 2 years in the sealed tank of my chainsaw was not a
problem, surprisingly.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
| |
| Vaughn Simon 2007-04-02, 9:25 am |
|
"Thomas Horne" <hornetd@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:bwZPh.20288$Jl.11976@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> mg wrote:
> Be cautious in your generator selection if your going to run it on natural
> gas. The capacity of the generator drops off sharply from it's nominal rating
> when run on gaseous fuel.
That depends Tom. It is more correct to say that you can expect the peak
engine power to drop by perhaps 10%. The capacity of the generator may or may
not drop depending on the original design of the unit, specifically the size of
the engine compared to the size of the generator.
For example, my Onan CCK is rated at 4 KW regardless of fuel supply. Why?
Big engine.
Vaughn
| |
|
| Karl S <karls@sysmatrix.munged.net> wrote in
news:kKidnR78_LdH943bnZ2dnUVZ_rSjnZ2d@sysmatrix.net:
> This is slightly off-topic, but I have a portable gasoline-fueled
> generator sold by Coleman. Can anyone here tell me how long gasoline
> can be stored in the generator's fuel tank? I tried using Sta-Bil in
> the fuel last fall, but it did not over-winter well and the generator
> had to be serviced. Even now, it surges unless slightly "choked".
>
> Karl S.
Hi, Karl
Fuel storage is a real problem nowadays. In the part of Texas I live in
you could generally count on 60 days if your can was sealed air tight, but
the recent government intervention made alcohol ubiquitous in gasoline, so
I cannot say with certainty now, and depending on where you live the
gasoline may be different.
For the best results in storing gasoline , go garage sale hunting, find
an old gas can that is metal, not plastic, and if you are lucky to find a
"terne" lined can , that has lead in the coating that will kill microbes
growing in the fuel, and seal it airtight, vent cap closed, put it in a
cool place the sun will not reach. I have successfully stored fuel 9 months
this way. By the way my gas can is not for sale, and in a lot of states
now, Texas, Oklahoma and California and possibly more I don't know about ,
you have new regulations on gas cans, you may not be able to buy what you
want, just what is legal.
I advise my customers ( i am a small engine technician) to only buy a 30
day supply of gas, when it is older than 30 days pour it in your car and go
buy new fuel. This is a lot of trouble if you want to have generator fuel
on hand, though.
Your surging problem may be only fuel related, but if it does not go away
when the engine is fully warmed up , or with fresh fuel, it will need some
carburetor cleaning. Gum and varnish form first on parts containing
copper, and most carb jets are made of brass, (alloy of copper and zinc) so
they may have a coating that restricts the orifice and leans out the
fuel/air mixture also causing surging.
Good luck, and you may need to find a small engine tech you can trust.
Scott
| |
|
| On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 14:00:33 -0800, Anthony Matonak
<anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
>You might look for thermophotovoltaic generators. I'm not sure if they
>make them in larger sizes but I have heard they are looking at them
>for hybrid electric cars.
Biggest ones I am aware of were 72 cells used by caterpillar on a
truck exhaust, generated about 1kW(e) from the exhaust of a large
truck, less than 1% overall conversion.
AJH
| |
| Thomas Horne 2007-04-03, 3:25 am |
| clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Apr 2007 02:03:51 GMT, Thomas Horne
> <hornetd@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> PROPERLY converted engines produce virtually the same power as
> gasoline powered engines, but conversion is a LITTLE more complicated
> than spudding in to the carb or replacing the carb with a propane or
> natural gas "carb"
>
I don't know what your calling properly converted but can you point to
one manufacturer that uses the same break horsepower curve on a gasoline
engine running on gaseous fuel as it does for that engine running on
gasoline? Alternatively can you point out one capacity listing for a
generator for sale with the same engine and alternator that gives the
same output listing in volt / amperes for both a gasoline and gaseous
fuel version?
--
Tom Horne
--
Tom Horne
| |
| Neon John 2007-04-03, 9:25 am |
| On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 03:10:37 GMT, Thomas Horne
<hornetd@mindspring.com> wrote:
>I don't know what your calling properly converted but can you point to
>one manufacturer that uses the same break horsepower curve on a gasoline
^^^^^ Brake
>engine running on gaseous fuel as it does for that engine running on
>gasoline? Alternatively can you point out one capacity listing for a
>generator for sale with the same engine and alternator that gives the
>same output listing in volt / amperes for both a gasoline and gaseous
>fuel version?
Sure. Generac's QuietPack line of very quiet RV generators:
http://www.guardiangenerators.com/P...ETPACT5575.aspx
Here's mine:
http://www.neon-john.com/Generator/.../Quiet_home.htm
They way they do it is the same as the way they achieve such a low
noise level - use a highly oversized engine and run it slow. In this
case, the Briggs/Vanguard twin cylinder 27hp engine is run at only
about 1500 RPM (from the top of my head) and is asked to produce only
about 11 hp for my 5500 watt version. The higher power versions use
the same engine and alternator and simply use different gearing so
that the engine runs a little faster.
On gasoline the throttle never goes wide open unless the generator is
overloaded. This leaves plenty of headroom for the loss of power
propane causes.
I believe that Onan has a line of dual fuel, identical HP generators
but I'm not sure.
More usual is Generac's inverter generator for RVs, the Impact that
they seem to not be making anymore.
Mine:
http://www.neon-john.com/Generator/...Impact_home.htm
From the manual, the gas version is rated at 3600 watts and the LP
version at 3400. This is a variable speed engine setup just like the
Honda EUs. It contains a one cylinder vertical shaft Briggs engine
that actually spins up to 4200 RPM at max load. IOW, they're flogging
the engine to get the rated power and they can't quite flog it as hard
on LP.
This is typical of an engine closely sized to match the generator's
output. I'd expect that out of an EU converted to propane and even
less on NG. Honda flogs those little engines too at full output.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
All great things are simple and many can be expressed in single words:
Freedom, Justice, Honor, Duty, Mercy, Hope. -Churchill
| |
| Thomas Horne 2007-04-03, 1:25 pm |
| Vaughn Simon wrote:
> "Thomas Horne" <hornetd@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:bwZPh.20288$Jl.11976@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> That depends Tom. It is more correct to say that you can expect the peak
> engine power to drop by perhaps 10%. The capacity of the generator may or may
> not drop depending on the original design of the unit, specifically the size of
> the engine compared to the size of the generator.
>
> For example, my Onan CCK is rated at 4 KW regardless of fuel supply. Why?
> Big engine.
>
> Vaughn
>
Thanks Vaughn
That at least makes sense. Having seen dozens of brake horsepower
curves for gasoline engines that are also offered in a gaseous fueled
version I had never seen one with the same curve for both fuels.
--
Tom Horne
| |
| Karl S 2007-04-04, 3:25 am |
| scott wrote:
> Karl S <karls@sysmatrix.munged.net> wrote in
> news:kKidnR78_LdH943bnZ2dnUVZ_rSjnZ2d@sysmatrix.net:
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi, Karl
> Fuel storage is a real problem nowadays. In the part of Texas I live in
> you could generally count on 60 days if your can was sealed air tight, but
> the recent government intervention made alcohol ubiquitous in gasoline, so
> I cannot say with certainty now, and depending on where you live the
> gasoline may be different.
> For the best results in storing gasoline , go garage sale hunting, find
> an old gas can that is metal, not plastic, and if you are lucky to find a
> "terne" lined can , that has lead in the coating that will kill microbes
> growing in the fuel, and seal it airtight, vent cap closed, put it in a
> cool place the sun will not reach. I have successfully stored fuel 9 months
> this way. By the way my gas can is not for sale, and in a lot of states
> now, Texas, Oklahoma and California and possibly more I don't know about ,
> you have new regulations on gas cans, you may not be able to buy what you
> want, just what is legal.
> I advise my customers ( i am a small engine technician) to only buy a 30
> day supply of gas, when it is older than 30 days pour it in your car and go
> buy new fuel. This is a lot of trouble if you want to have generator fuel
> on hand, though.
> Your surging problem may be only fuel related, but if it does not go away
> when the engine is fully warmed up , or with fresh fuel, it will need some
> carburetor cleaning. Gum and varnish form first on parts containing
> copper, and most carb jets are made of brass, (alloy of copper and zinc) so
> they may have a coating that restricts the orifice and leans out the
> fuel/air mixture also causing surging.
> Good luck, and you may need to find a small engine tech you can trust.
> Scott
>
Thanks for the info.
I'll go with the 30-day limit, In the meantime, I'm running it with a
little "carb cleaner" mixed into the fresh gas to see if that makes a
difference.
| |
| Steve Spence 2007-04-04, 9:25 am |
| You might consider a propane conversion. For about $200, it eliminates the
storage issues, and the fuel system stays clean. Eliminates the need for a
choke, enhances remote starting, and reduces concern over carbon monoxide
issues. Propane is a cleaner burning domestic fuel, and is often much
cheaper than gasoline. You can still use gasoline, or even natural gas.
http://www.propane-generators.com/a...%20kit%20prices
--
Steve Spence
Director, Green-Trust
http://www.green-trust.org
"Karl S" <karls@sysmatrix.munged.net> wrote in message
news:HpidnfkgLs1Fj47bnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@sysmatrix.net...
> scott wrote:
> Thanks for the info.
> I'll go with the 30-day limit, In the meantime, I'm running it with a
> little "carb cleaner" mixed into the fresh gas to see if that makes a
> difference.
| |
| AnthonyRussellOsborn 2007-04-04, 1:25 pm |
| On Mar 31, 9:43 pm, "Wonderer" <carlo.germ...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You can find cheap small(1kw) gasoline generators but they are so
> noisy. I would be interested in a low powered quiet(not fuel cell)
> efficient propane generator, If I could fine one? Something I could
> screw up a 1lb propane cylinder and have hours of electricity. They
> have a compact furnace in Europe that also generates electricity for
> home use, but very expensive.
There is a company in the UK doing this via a Fuel Cell Stack. They
are called Voller Energy. www.voller-energy.com I think? Their
system will produce electricity from a standard propane container.
| |
| Vaughn Simon 2007-04-04, 5:25 pm |
|
"AnthonyRussellOsborn" <anthonyrussellosborn@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1175697641.216559.109470@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> There is a company in the UK doing this via a Fuel Cell Stack. They
> are called Voller Energy. www.voller-energy.com I think? Their
> system will produce electricity from a standard propane container.
Thanks for an interestng link, but that seems to be a future product.
Their site says:
"We are currently developing a system which will run from LPG, propane or
butane (bbq gas) and which will provide the functional equivalent of a 5kVA
petrol or diesel generator. This product will be aimed at the leisure industry
initially, for powering the 12V or 24V circuits on board yachts and in
motorhomes & caravans, by using the cooking gas already on board. "
They do have a "100 Watt" fuel cell that seems to be a current product. It will
provide a continuous 65 to 70 watts, but only runs on hydrogen gas. You can get
it packaged as a rack mount battery charger, or as a portable unit that will
supply 12 VDC or small amounts of AC line current.
Vaughn
>
|
|
|
|
|