Alternative Power sources - compressor failure

Author

compressor failure

mikeyrm1@yahoo.com

2007-05-29, 8:25 pm

I have had my compressor on my heat pump fail twice in the last 11
years. My technician says this is usual because of the poor quality
of these compressors. Seems like they should last longer then that.
Any thoughts on replacement costs for compressors or brands? Thanks.

Mike Payne

2007-05-29, 9:25 pm

You would need to know a lot more information before predicting replacement
costs. Like for instance the size of the unit and its SEER rating. But if
your compressor has failed twice in 11 years I would suggest it is time for
a new unit rather than another new compressor.

mike

<mikeyrm1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1180483510.973700.23060@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>I have had my compressor on my heat pump fail twice in the last 11
> years. My technician says this is usual because of the poor quality
> of these compressors. Seems like they should last longer then that.
> Any thoughts on replacement costs for compressors or brands? Thanks.
>

RamRod Sword of Baal

2007-05-30, 5:25 pm

"Mike Payne" <payne@gru.net> wrote in message
news:HA47i.114137$NK5.99837@newsfe23.lga...[color=darkred]
> You would need to know a lot more information before predicting
> replacement costs. Like for instance the size of the unit and its SEER
> rating. But if your compressor has failed twice in 11 years I would
> suggest it is time for a new unit rather than another new compressor.
>
> mike
>
> <mikeyrm1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1180483510.973700.23060@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

========================================

Talking about the failures.

It depends on the reason for the failure, was it that it was electrically
OK, but stopped pumping, or became inefficient?

If mechanical failure occurred, then could be that there is dirt in the
system, from dust or dirt in the pipes when it was installed, or that the
pipe work was welded without dry nitrogen being passed though the pipe work
when it was being welded leaving oxide in the system. Do you have a liquid
line drier in the system? These driers pick up rubbish from the system and
capture it.

I suppose it could be that if used a lot they can just wear out.

--------------

If it failed electrically (IE burnt out) there are various reasons for this.

If it is a split system, that is not a package unit that was purchased
completely self contained, but had pipes run between the two components,
there is the possibility that the system was not evacuated properly leaving
air and moisture in the system which could cause burn outs.

If the first compressor burnt out, and the system was not cleaned out,
further compressor failures are the result.

When a compressor burns out, it leaves acids and sludges in the system, if
not removed then these attack the windings of the new compressor, causing it
to fail.

It was said that after a burn out, if the system was not cleaned out, then
the new compressor would fail in around 6 months, and if a further new
compressor was fitted and no cleaning out was done, that compressor would
fail in around 6 weeks, of course this would depnd on how severe was the
burnouts.

One used to wash out the system with R11 refrigerant to remove the
contaminants, but R11 is no longer available, and the current thoughts are
to fit a burn out drier in the suction line as it enters the compressor
catching the rubbish before it gets back into the compressor. The drier
neutralizes the acids and catches the sludges, but like everything they have
their limits, and if the burnout was severe, then one drier might not be
able to hold all the contaminants.

It is suggested then that the oil in the new compressor is checked for
acidity after running the system for a while and if acid, change the burn
out and liquid line driers again until the oil is no longer acid..

If the compressor burnt out previously then you would most properly have a
suction line drier in the suction line leading into the compressor also (The
suction line is the biggest pipe going into the compressor.)
--------------------

Other causes for a burn out are low voltage, over voltage, and if the unit
is 3 phase, then losing a phase is a way for the compressor to burn out.

Has your compressor got an overload on it? If it can be manually set, is it
set for the full load amps of the compressor?

If I had two compressors fail electrically and the system was clean
internally, I would change the overload. The fairly small cost would be some
insurance against a further burnout. Here I am talking about an overload
that is external to the compressor, not the klixon (overload), which a new
one would be supplied when a new compressor is fitted on most compressors.

The above is a generalization, as I do not know anything about your
particular system. It could be a 1 HP window unit or a 10 HP whole house
split system.

Rotary compressors supposedly do not last as long as the old reciprocating
(piston) type compressors I have been told, but I have no evidence on this
one way or the other.

Note if a burn out has occurred in your system at any time and a new outdoor
unit is fitted, and using the original pipes and indoor unit (assuming here
it is a split system), a burn out drier being fitted to the system would be
a wise move.

RW Salnick

2007-05-30, 5:25 pm

RamRod Sword of Baal brought forth on stone tablets:
>
> "Mike Payne" <payne@gru.net> wrote in message
> news:HA47i.114137$NK5.99837@newsfe23.lga...
>
>
>
> ========================================
>
> Talking about the failures.
>
> It depends on the reason for the failure, was it that it was
> electrically OK, but stopped pumping, or became inefficient?
>
> If mechanical failure occurred, then could be that there is dirt in the
> system, from dust or dirt in the pipes when it was installed, or that
> the pipe work was welded without dry nitrogen being passed though the
> pipe work when it was being welded leaving oxide in the system. Do you
> have a liquid line drier in the system? These driers pick up rubbish
> from the system and capture it.
>
> I suppose it could be that if used a lot they can just wear out.
>
> --------------
>
> If it failed electrically (IE burnt out) there are various reasons for
> this.
>
> If it is a split system, that is not a package unit that was purchased
> completely self contained, but had pipes run between the two components,
> there is the possibility that the system was not evacuated properly
> leaving air and moisture in the system which could cause burn outs.
>
> If the first compressor burnt out, and the system was not cleaned out,
> further compressor failures are the result.
>
> When a compressor burns out, it leaves acids and sludges in the system,
> if not removed then these attack the windings of the new compressor,
> causing it to fail.
>
> It was said that after a burn out, if the system was not cleaned out,
> then the new compressor would fail in around 6 months, and if a further
> new compressor was fitted and no cleaning out was done, that compressor
> would fail in around 6 weeks, of course this would depnd on how severe
> was the burnouts.
>
> One used to wash out the system with R11 refrigerant to remove the
> contaminants, but R11 is no longer available, and the current thoughts
> are to fit a burn out drier in the suction line as it enters the
> compressor catching the rubbish before it gets back into the compressor.
> The drier neutralizes the acids and catches the sludges, but like
> everything they have their limits, and if the burnout was severe, then
> one drier might not be able to hold all the contaminants.
>
> It is suggested then that the oil in the new compressor is checked for
> acidity after running the system for a while and if acid, change the
> burn out and liquid line driers again until the oil is no longer acid..
>
> If the compressor burnt out previously then you would most properly have
> a suction line drier in the suction line leading into the compressor
> also (The suction line is the biggest pipe going into the compressor.)
> --------------------
>
> Other causes for a burn out are low voltage, over voltage, and if the
> unit is 3 phase, then losing a phase is a way for the compressor to burn
> out.
>
> Has your compressor got an overload on it? If it can be manually set, is
> it set for the full load amps of the compressor?
>
> If I had two compressors fail electrically and the system was clean
> internally, I would change the overload. The fairly small cost would be
> some insurance against a further burnout. Here I am talking about an
> overload that is external to the compressor, not the klixon (overload),
> which a new one would be supplied when a new compressor is fitted on
> most compressors.
>
> The above is a generalization, as I do not know anything about your
> particular system. It could be a 1 HP window unit or a 10 HP whole house
> split system.
>
> Rotary compressors supposedly do not last as long as the old
> reciprocating (piston) type compressors I have been told, but I have no
> evidence on this one way or the other.
>
> Note if a burn out has occurred in your system at any time and a new
> outdoor unit is fitted, and using the original pipes and indoor unit
> (assuming here it is a split system), a burn out drier being fitted to
> the system would be a wise move.

Good, comprehensive list.

However, mine (professionally installed) failed because the compressor
inhaled a solder ball - apparently no drier between the soldered joint
and the compressor.

bob
s/v Eolian
Seattle

Lectron_Nuis

2007-05-31, 9:25 am

RW Salnick <salnick@no.spam.org>, wrote:

[..]

>
>
>
Comprehensive? Yeah , sure..good?..
....I reserve an opinion <g>

>
>However, mine (professionally installed) failed because the compressor
>inhaled a solder ball - apparently no drier between the soldered joint
>and the compressor.
>
>bob
>s/v Eolian
>Seattle
>
Jumping in to point out the contradiction in terms here Bob.
A unit "professionally installed" does not get "a solder ball"
floating around the system. When the OEM or the compressor
manufacturer has given you that report as feedback, then you
do have grounds for some claim on the installer.
You did make one?
If not....
There are set procedures for working with eutectic solders, designed
that way to eliminate exactly what you describe. Ask your nearest
competent professional for their opinion on that report, you could
even try <alt.hvac>, you might get some sense out of that lot IF they
can stay off the soup long enough <g>

FWIW..any split system installed without the original pipeset (often
discarded as they can be pure unadulterated junk) is best finished
with a chemically enhanced suction line dryer fitted with a service
port.
When I say "any" I am talking about the range from ~2.0kW to
maybe 25kW. Outside of that range other factors come into play.
Needless to say the same process is a must for a "professional
repair".

Something to think on :-)

Ln

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