Alternative Power sources - My Belt-Drive eu2000

Author

My Belt-Drive eu2000

Ulysses

2007-06-19, 5:25 pm

At least one person (Neon John) expressed interest in seeing what I did to
my eu2000 so here it is:

http://members.dslextreme.com/users.../Index.html.HTM

I hope. It's been a while since a made a web site.

Neon John

2007-06-19, 8:25 pm

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 12:37:24 -0700, "Ulysses" <therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote:

>At least one person (Neon John) expressed interest in seeing what I did to
>my eu2000 so here it is:
>
>
>http://members.dslextreme.com/users.../Index.html.HTM
>
>
>I hope. It's been a while since a made a web site.

Man, I love a good sub-saharan-engineered job! I bet it would be easy to adapt the
servo throttle to your new engine. You confirmed one thing I'd been wondering about
- whether the inverter would still run if the servo throttle wasn't working. The
control system of my Generac inverter genny shuts off the inverter if the engine RPM
goes far outside the commanded speed.

Gotta love those crazy japs at Honda. If you've ever done any motorcycling, you'll
recognize that alternator as a standard dirt bike/small street engine affair. I bet
it's even made by Nippon Denso. They took an essentially production motorcycle
alternator, lashed it up to a little engine, added some electronics and are getting
away with charging a kilobuck!

I built a battery charger many moons ago by taking the alternator from a large single
cylinder dirt bike (yamaha 500 single, I think), machining the crank of a B&S engine
to accept the flywheel and feeding the output to a 3 phase full wave bridge. When I
first heard about the EUs, I'd have bet money that they took the same approach.

I know that your current system works but have you ever thought about machining the
crankshaft of the new engine to accept the alternator flywheel directly? That would
let you get rid of the pulleys, belts, greased bearings and all the other mechanical
debris from the old engine.

I've made up a fixture in the past to do the machining in situ. That is, an assembly
of welded metal and all-thread that bolted to the engine face and machined the shaft
while the engine turned it. All you'd need would be a simple taper and a hole
drilled and threaded into the end of the crankshaft.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
What do you call 10 blondes standing in a row? Pneumatic air line.

Ulysses

2007-06-19, 8:25 pm

"Neon John" <no@never.com> wrote in message
news:tllg7394frg2dil7jib85speb4a47rmbke@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 12:37:24 -0700, "Ulysses" <therealulysses@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
to[color=darkred]
>
> Man, I love a good sub-saharan-engineered job! I bet it would be easy to
adapt the
> servo throttle to your new engine. You confirmed one thing I'd been
wondering about
> - whether the inverter would still run if the servo throttle wasn't
working. The
> control system of my Generac inverter genny shuts off the inverter if the
engine RPM
> goes far outside the commanded speed.

I wondered that too and thought I might have to connect the carburator, even
If I wasn't using it. To me it did not look all THAT easy to adapt the
servo throttle but I have not abandoned the idea. Part of the problem is
that I'm using the generator somewhat regularly so good enough might have to
do for a while.

>
> Gotta love those crazy japs at Honda. If you've ever done any
motorcycling, you'll
> recognize that alternator as a standard dirt bike/small street engine
affair. I bet
> it's even made by Nippon Denso. They took an essentially production
motorcycle
> alternator, lashed it up to a little engine, added some electronics and
are getting
> away with charging a kilobuck!
>

I had a Honda 90 way back in the early 70's. I did notice the similarity.
I removed the battery from the system and did a little rewiring according to
a motorcycle magazine article and it ran better without the battery. It
started out as a $50 street bike (it had been driven over by a truck) and
ended up as a farily decent dirt bike.

> I built a battery charger many moons ago by taking the alternator from a
large single
> cylinder dirt bike (yamaha 500 single, I think), machining the crank of a
B&S engine
> to accept the flywheel and feeding the output to a 3 phase full wave
bridge. When I
> first heard about the EUs, I'd have bet money that they took the same
approach.
>
> I know that your current system works but have you ever thought about
machining the
> crankshaft of the new engine to accept the alternator flywheel directly?
That would
> let you get rid of the pulleys, belts, greased bearings and all the other
mechanical
> debris from the old engine.

That was my first thought. I took one look at the flywheel end of the
crankshaft on the GC135 and decided to go with the belt-drive, at least for
now. It does have the advantage of being able to switch to an alternator or
even a water pump if needed.

>
> I've made up a fixture in the past to do the machining in situ. That is,
an assembly
> of welded metal and all-thread that bolted to the engine face and machined
the shaft
> while the engine turned it. All you'd need would be a simple taper and a
hole
> drilled and threaded into the end of the crankshaft.

That sounds a bit like how I managed to get a key-shaft pulley to fit onto a
tapered shaft--I started up the engine and held a grinding wheel up to the
shaft until it was the right size. It was not easy to get it to stay on
there. I broke several 1/4" bolts and now I"m using 5/16" to secure the
pulley. Now I'm worried about the shaft breaking as there is no key to
break if things get hung up.

I originally bought the engine as a replacement for my Coleman Pulse 1850.
It, of course, did not fit into the case but it all the important stuff went
together OK and I simply used a heavy-duty angle bracket to attach the
handle. Then I needed an engine to drive a 12 volt alternator for battery
charging. This is the engine's third life sorta. Sorta because I made the
eu2000 rig so I can easily change it back to the alternator in a few
minutes.

I'm still working on the 48 volt alternator thing. So far I managed to get
30 volts from my Delco 10S1 by putting a 5500K (approximately) resistor in
line with the F terminal. I've been reading an awful lot about alternators
and studying the wiring diagrams for the alternator and the voltage
regulator but so far I just don't get it. What I understand so far is that
I need 3 anode to case diodes, 3 cathode to case diodes, heat sinks, a new
voltage regulator, and two resistors. I went to Digikey.com and got back
over 1000 hits when looking for diodes. Several people here said I can get
65 amps at 48 volts from my Delco alternator so right now that seems to be
my best course. At the rate I'm going I expect to be able to go into my
garage in a couple more weeks and make an alternator from junk in boxes but
I think it's going to take a little longer before I understand what you so
patiently explained to me. BTW I printed it out.

I have looked at many PMAs online and nothing seems to be just the right
thing for my purposes unless I'm willing to give up $15,000 or so.

>
> John
> --
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.neon-john.com
> http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> What do you call 10 blondes standing in a row? Pneumatic air line.
>

Neon John

2007-06-20, 1:25 pm

Ulysses

2007-06-20, 5:25 pm

"Neon John" <no@never.com> wrote in message
news:44di73h9246uvr4of7p9r8v8egkov9b8s9@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 12:37:24 -0700, "Ulysses" <therealulysses@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
to[color=darkred]
>
> I was posting a link to the RV group showing your work when something
dawned on me.
> Look at your next-to-last photo. The two engines are essentially
identical. Honda
> changed some bosses around and stuff like that but on the whole, they're
the same
> engine.
>
> The idea that dawned is, maybe you could use a GC engine for overhaul
parts for your
> EU. The least expensive GC is under $200 retail. I'll just bet that
everything
> except maybe the crank (different output shaft configs) and the piston (if
different
> displacements) will interchange. Might be worth cracking the case on your
GC to see

I got mine for about $150 including shipping. For about $15 more you can
get low-oil shutdown.

I took a long, hard look at the GC engine before doing anything. One option
I considered was possibly changing the non-cylinder side of the case. That
would put the oil fill hole in the right place but I'm not sure about the
position of the crankshaft and if the diameter is larger where the piston
rod attaches then the GC rod would not fit on the old crankshaft and the
eu2000 rod is probably worn. The bearings might be bigger on the GC engine
too. But, no way to find out for sure without taking it all apart. Since
it's an OHC engine with no removable head it does not appear to be an option
to have the cylinder rebored and get an oversized piston and undersized rod
and apparently, from what I've been told, Honda does not provide any engine
rebuilding information in the shop manual It would take someone with a lot
of small engine experience to know what piston and rod might fit. After
living with generators for several years now I have grown to prefer the OHV
engines. But still, it seems like there should be enough of the right parts
there. Somehow.

If you liked my sub-saharan engineering you're gonna love this: it looks
like the Honda alternator/flywheel might fit right onto a B&S 3.5 HP engine.
And the carb might fit on fairly easily too. Just imagine a 21-year-old
severely abused and neglected cheap lawnmower with the eu2000
inverter/outlet panel mounted on the top. It could probably still be used
to mow lawns too! So, what's about 3 steps below sub-saharan? BTW it still
runs great and starts on one pull.

One more point occured to me about using a different engine: the spark is
contolled by the inverter unit on the eu2000 so I'm guessing that it changes
the ignition timing as the RPMs change in order to get more power at low
RPMs. It might be worth the trouble to re-use what I would have to call the
crankshaft position sensor if the eu2000 rotor/flywheel will fit onto
another engine.

Meanwhile ol' Euie (as I call my eu2000) is currently charging by 12 volt
battery bank using my B&D Smart Charger (used to be Vector).

> --
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.neon-john.com
> http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> Who is General Failure and why is he reading my disk?
>

Solar Flaire

2007-06-20, 8:25 pm

The eu2000i comes with a built in 12v battery charger. Why waste the
energy inverting to 120vac and then back to 12v ??

"Ulysses" <eatmyspam@spamola.com/> wrote in message
news:137ivra3be89vd4@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Neon John" <no@never.com> wrote in message
> news:44di73h9246uvr4of7p9r8v8egkov9b8s9@4ax.com...
> wrote:
> to
> dawned on me.
> identical. Honda
> the same
> parts for your
> everything
> different
> GC to see
>
> I got mine for about $150 including shipping. For about $15 more
> you can
> get low-oil shutdown.
>
> I took a long, hard look at the GC engine before doing anything.
> One option
> I considered was possibly changing the non-cylinder side of the
> case. That
> would put the oil fill hole in the right place but I'm not sure
> about the
> position of the crankshaft and if the diameter is larger where the
> piston
> rod attaches then the GC rod would not fit on the old crankshaft and
> the
> eu2000 rod is probably worn. The bearings might be bigger on the GC
> engine
> too. But, no way to find out for sure without taking it all apart.
> Since
> it's an OHC engine with no removable head it does not appear to be
> an option
> to have the cylinder rebored and get an oversized piston and
> undersized rod
> and apparently, from what I've been told, Honda does not provide any
> engine
> rebuilding information in the shop manual It would take someone
> with a lot
> of small engine experience to know what piston and rod might fit.
> After
> living with generators for several years now I have grown to prefer
> the OHV
> engines. But still, it seems like there should be enough of the
> right parts
> there. Somehow.
>
> If you liked my sub-saharan engineering you're gonna love this: it
> looks
> like the Honda alternator/flywheel might fit right onto a B&S 3.5 HP
> engine.
> And the carb might fit on fairly easily too. Just imagine a
> 21-year-old
> severely abused and neglected cheap lawnmower with the eu2000
> inverter/outlet panel mounted on the top. It could probably still
> be used
> to mow lawns too! So, what's about 3 steps below sub-saharan? BTW
> it still
> runs great and starts on one pull.
>
> One more point occured to me about using a different engine: the
> spark is
> contolled by the inverter unit on the eu2000 so I'm guessing that it
> changes
> the ignition timing as the RPMs change in order to get more power at
> low
> RPMs. It might be worth the trouble to re-use what I would have to
> call the
> crankshaft position sensor if the eu2000 rotor/flywheel will fit
> onto
> another engine.
>
> Meanwhile ol' Euie (as I call my eu2000) is currently charging by 12
> volt
> battery bank using my B&D Smart Charger (used to be Vector).
>
>
>
>
>

yoyo

2007-06-21, 9:25 am

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 18:20:44 -0500, Solar Flaire wrote:

> The eu2000i comes with a built in 12v battery charger. Why waste the
> energy inverting to 120vac and then back to 12v ??
>

The 1600W AC can be fed through a 100A+ smart charger for fast and correct
battery charging.

The 96W, (12V 8A) DC output would take much longer and is NOT smart.

John

Ulysses

2007-06-21, 1:25 pm

"yoyo" <yoyo@foo.bar> wrote in message
news:00c5bb8d$0$28026$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 18:20:44 -0500, Solar Flaire wrote:
>
>
> The 1600W AC can be fed through a 100A+ smart charger for fast and correct
> battery charging.
>
> The 96W, (12V 8A) DC output would take much longer and is NOT smart.

Yea. It's been a while but I seem to recall the open voltage was about 17
VDC or more.

>
> John

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