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Home > Archive > Alternative Power sources > July 2007 > 100 MPG CARS
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| Leonard Abbott 2007-06-13, 5:25 pm |
| | |
| TheDoc 2007-06-13, 5:25 pm |
|
"Leonard Abbott" <leonard-abbott@webtv.net> wrote in message news:19746-46704722-84@storefull-3312.bay.webtv.net...
Felix Kramer is on a mission, one that carried him and his new plug-in
Toyota Prius hybrid to the steps of Capitol Hill. There he and
representatives of Electro Energy, which brought along their own plug-in
Prius, showcased to some of Washington's most powerful politicians, from
Orrin Hatch to Hilary Clinton, technology that can help make America
less dependent on petroleum: cars that can get 100 mpg.
The event -- organized by SetAmericaFree.Org -- was planned to coincide
with an announced summit between the White House and Detroit's
beleaguered carmakers. Although the meeting was postponed at the last
minute by the Bush Administration until June 2nd, Kramer and company,
along with auto industry chief executives, traveled to the U.S. capital
to lobby lawmakers and testify before Congress.
snip
I don't know of any cars that achive 100 MPG.. my jetta averages 50 mpg at 75-80 mph.. much better than
a prius.. .. so what cars do 100 mpg ?
| |
|
| You can get 100 mpg with a small low profile (small frontal surface
area) car about 1500 lbs, with good drag coefficient (down around .
25), and hard tires. How many KWhrs in a gallon of gas? About 33 I
think... so 100 miles per 33 KWhr is about .33KWhr per mile or less...
20 HP is about 15KW, should get you up to about 60 mph. After 1 hr,
you have gone 60 mi on 15KWhr.... about .25 KWhr per mi.... better
than whats needed, so you can go a little faster and still get 100 mpg.
| |
| Anthony Matonak 2007-06-13, 8:25 pm |
| TheDoc wrote:
> I don't know of any cars that achive 100 MPG.. my jetta averages 50 mpg at 75-80 mph.. much better than
> a prius.. .. so what cars do 100 mpg ?
I think the 100 mpg plug-in Prius is based on fudging the figures
and not counting the electricity used to charge the battery bank
at home. Despite the hype, I think plug in hybrids are a good idea.
Even better when they can go the other way and provide power when
camping or during power failures.
That said, the VW 1 liter concept car got 238 mpg so it's possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_1-litre_car
Anthony
| |
| Leonard Abbott 2007-06-13, 9:25 pm |
| | |
| Neon John 2007-06-14, 3:25 am |
| On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 17:10:15 -0700, Anthony Matonak
<anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
>TheDoc wrote:
>
>I think the 100 mpg plug-in Prius is based on fudging the figures
>and not counting the electricity used to charge the battery bank
>at home.
Of course they are and it's not fudging, it's outright lying.
By their lying logic, my electric scooter gets thousands of miles to the gallon. I
carry a little handheld gas generator in case I run down the batteries and
occasionally have to use it. If I burn a gallon of gas in that generator every 2000
miles then am I getting 2000mpg? Of course not, and saying otherwise is just flat
lying.
>Despite the hype, I think plug in hybrids are a good idea.
>Even better when they can go the other way and provide power when
>camping or during power failures.
For me, the jury's still out on plug-in hybrids. I suspect that in the long run few
people will bother with the day-to-day hassle of plugging the thing in. I predict
that it will be more of a gimmick than something useful. I'm saying that as a
long-time EV driver and rider.
I think that the "power during a blackout" thing is pure hype. While having a source
of 120 volts is handy for things like running a microwave at the tailgate party and
picnic, the concept of "powering the grid during blackouts with thousands of idling
hybrids" is impractical at best and silly at worst.
This capability has existed for years - decades - in the form of the built-in
generators in RVs. A few people, myself included, have realized that resource and
have arranged to plug their houses into the genset during a blackout but nobody's
seriously suggested feeding the grid.
I just don't see the very very rare opportunity to use the ability to feed the grid
as being worth the cost of the necessary hardware. I could be wrong - won't be the
first time - but I don't think so.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
If stupidity hurt then there'd be Aspirin in the salt shakers.
| |
| Vaughn Simon 2007-06-14, 9:25 am |
|
"Leonard Abbott" <leonard-abbott@webtv.net> wrote in message news:13650-46709861-90@storefull-3314.bay.webtv.net...
"Have you ever wondered why gasoline mileage has improved little over the
years?"
Actually, over the last 30 or 40 years, I have seen gas mileage increase greatly. I was happy when my '70 Malibu managed anything much over 10 MPG. Now, my Honda Civic with AC gets gas mileage that just might beat my old 65 BMW motorcycle! Why are there no 100 MPG cars for sale? Assuming that you live in the USA just look around and see the huge things that folks actually seem to prefer to buy. The auto manufacturers aren't crazy, they make what folks want to buy, and it ain't 100 MPG cars.
LOSE THE HTML!
Vaughn
| |
|
|
"TheDoc" <thedoc@future-solar.com> wrote in message news:1370qsu57kilp46@corp.supernews.com...
"Leonard Abbott" <leonard-abbott@webtv.net> wrote in message news:19746-46704722-84@storefull-3312.bay.webtv.net...
Felix Kramer is on a mission, one that carried him and his new plug-in
Toyota Prius hybrid to the steps of Capitol Hill. There he and
representatives of Electro Energy, which brought along their own plug-in
Prius, showcased to some of Washington's most powerful politicians, from
Orrin Hatch to Hilary Clinton, technology that can help make America
less dependent on petroleum: cars that can get 100 mpg.
The event -- organized by SetAmericaFree.Org -- was planned to coincide
with an announced summit between the White House and Detroit's
beleaguered carmakers. Although the meeting was postponed at the last
minute by the Bush Administration until June 2nd, Kramer and company,
along with auto industry chief executives, traveled to the U.S. capital
to lobby lawmakers and testify before Congress.
snip
I don't know of any cars that achive 100 MPG.. my jetta averages 50 mpg at 75-80 mph.. much better than
a prius.. .. so what cars do 100 mpg ?
None of them.
The usual way is to run your car off of electricity, talk about how many miles you can go on "gas", and then state you are not polluting.
Al
| |
| Balanced View 2007-06-14, 1:25 pm |
| Neon John wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 17:10:15 -0700, Anthony Matonak
> <anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Of course they are and it's not fudging, it's outright lying.
>
> By their lying logic, my electric scooter gets thousands of miles to the gallon. I
> carry a little handheld gas generator in case I run down the batteries and
> occasionally have to use it. If I burn a gallon of gas in that generator every 2000
> miles then am I getting 2000mpg? Of course not, and saying otherwise is just flat
> lying.
>
I don't get it, what's your beef with the plug in concept? It's far
easier to clean up the air at the main source ( generating station)
than millions of cars, and it's cheaper than gas. While I don't agree
with the way they describe the mileage (MPG), it gets it across
to the average person the savings in gas use. Personally I'd list it in
terms of cents per mile.
>
>
> For me, the jury's still out on plug-in hybrids. I suspect that in the long run few
> people will bother with the day-to-day hassle of plugging the thing in. I predict
> that it will be more of a gimmick than something useful. I'm saying that as a
> long-time EV driver and rider.
>
Sticking a plug in the wall is more of a hassle than going out of your
way to a gas station, and waiting in line?
>
>
| |
| Chris Hill 2007-06-15, 1:25 pm |
| On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 12:14:16 -0400, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net>
wrote:
>Neon John wrote:
>
>I don't get it, what's your beef with the plug in concept? It's far
>easier to clean up the air at the main source ( generating station)
>than millions of cars, and it's cheaper than gas. While I don't agree
>with the way they describe the mileage (MPG), it gets it across
>to the average person the savings in gas use. Personally I'd list it in
>terms of cents per mile.
It all depends on the source. The fact is that the coal plants that
generate a lot of the electricity have big coal lobbies that won't
clean things up voluntarily. Also, coal produces more greenhouse
gases than just about any other hydrocarbon, along with HG and some
radioactive biproducts. Add the transmission losses in moving
electricity and the extra hastle that most people won't bother with
and you have a dumb idea.
| |
| Balanced View 2007-06-16, 3:25 am |
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Chris Hill wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 12:14:16 -0400, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> It all depends on the source. The fact is that the coal plants that
> generate a lot of the electricity have big coal lobbies that won't
> clean things up voluntarily. Also, coal produces more greenhouse
> gases than just about any other hydrocarbon, along with HG and some
> radioactive biproducts.
There's also Hydro & Nuclear generation. In any event the coal power
plants are already running 24/7
and it's easier to control pollution at source than on millions of ICE cars.
> Add the transmission losses in moving
> electricity and the extra hastle that most people won't bother with
> and you have a dumb idea.
>
What the hell has transmission losses got to do with anything? You also
have to move oil out of the ground,
process it and move it again to storage then again to the gas station. I
don't hear anyone mentioning anything about that.
And what extra hassle? LOL, putting a plug in the wall is more of a
hassle than driving out of your way to get gas?
| |
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Chris Hill <hillco@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:35g573hg2im326p8b17c0h6g2pgcj7il6g@4ax.com:
> On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 12:14:16 -0400, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Add the transmission losses in moving
> electricity and the extra hastle that most people won't bother with
> and you have a dumb idea.
Think for a second how much transmission energy is involved in Gasoline.
Pump it from the ground in the middle east, take it to the states, refine
it, ship it on highways.
I'd rather have fewer gasoline trucks on the roads and more electricity
passing through cables.
| |
| Vaughn Simon 2007-06-16, 9:25 am |
|
"Balanced View" <Nill@nill.net> wrote in message news:f4vvci$19i$1@aioe.org...
> And what extra hassle? LOL, putting a plug in the wall is more of a hassle
> than driving out of your way to get gas?
That wasn't a "balanced view" and you frikkin well know it!
A gas tank hold a whole bunch more BTUs than an EV's battery, so you fill
up with gas perhaps weekly, but you would need to plug in your EV once or twice
every day. Also, you gas up your car in five minutes but it probably takes at
least an hour to recharge your EV, so it is not available for use during that
time.
Vaughn
| |
| Chris Hill 2007-06-16, 9:25 am |
| On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 01:43:59 -0500, z <z@yada.yada.com> wrote:
>
>Think for a second how much transmission energy is involved in Gasoline.
>Pump it from the ground in the middle east, take it to the states, refine
>it, ship it on highways.
>
>I'd rather have fewer gasoline trucks on the roads and more electricity
>passing through cables.
I doubt if it would hold a candle to the inefficiency in the
electricity distribution system, let alone the inefficiencies of
making batteries and the losses in generation.
| |
| Balanced View 2007-06-16, 1:25 pm |
| Vaughn Simon wrote:
> "Balanced View" <Nill@nill.net> wrote in message news:f4vvci$19i$1@aioe.org...
>
>
> That wasn't a "balanced view" and you frikkin well know it!
>
> A gas tank hold a whole bunch more BTUs than an EV's battery, so you fill
> up with gas perhaps weekly, but you would need to plug in your EV once or twice
> every day. Also, you gas up your car in five minutes but it probably takes at
> least an hour to recharge your EV, so it is not available for use during that
> time.
>
> Vaughn
>
>
>
The thread has been about plug in hybrids such as the modified Toyota
Prius, which you can drive in either mode.
The average commute is less than 30 miles a day in the USA, which means
you'd only have to plug it in once a day.
If the American people are too lazy to even take one minute to stick a
plug in the wall at the end of the day, you are
well and truly doomed.
| |
| Balanced View 2007-06-16, 1:25 pm |
| Chris Hill wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 01:43:59 -0500, z <z@yada.yada.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I doubt if it would hold a candle to the inefficiency in the
> electricity distribution system, let alone the inefficiencies of
> making batteries and the losses in generation.
>
LOL, the oil industry needs a huge infrastructure to turn it from sludge
to fuel, then shipment for thousands of miles.
Electricity is direct to the consumer, most of it on infrastructure
that's been in place for over 50 years.
| |
| Chris Hill 2007-06-16, 1:25 pm |
| On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 10:43:09 -0400, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net>
wrote:
>Chris Hill wrote:
>LOL, the oil industry needs a huge infrastructure to turn it from sludge
>to fuel, then shipment for thousands of miles.
>Electricity is direct to the consumer, most of it on infrastructure
>that's been in place for over 50 years.
If it has, then that's a good reason not to put a bunch of cars on it,
it wouldn't be able to take the strain. Another deal killer to these
is that gas taxes maintain the roads. The government would have to
find a way to get their pound of flesh.
| |
| Chris Hill 2007-06-16, 1:25 pm |
| On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 10:37:53 -0400, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net>
wrote:
>Vaughn Simon wrote:
>The thread has been about plug in hybrids such as the modified Toyota
>Prius, which you can drive in either mode.
>The average commute is less than 30 miles a day in the USA, which means
>you'd only have to plug it in once a day.
>If the American people are too lazy to even take one minute to stick a
>plug in the wall at the end of the day, you are
>well and truly doomed.
Considering the slight average benefit of the extra work, most people
wouldn't mess with it. If they could find a way for the vehicles to
either plug themselves in automatically or get electricity through
some sort of inductive coupling, it might work.
| |
| Neon John 2007-06-16, 1:25 pm |
| On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 12:06:42 GMT, "Vaughn Simon" <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.FAKE.net>
wrote:
>
>"Balanced View" <Nill@nill.net> wrote in message news:f4vvci$19i$1@aioe.org...
>
> That wasn't a "balanced view" and you frikkin well know it!
>
> A gas tank hold a whole bunch more BTUs than an EV's battery, so you fill
>up with gas perhaps weekly, but you would need to plug in your EV once or twice
>every day. Also, you gas up your car in five minutes but it probably takes at
>least an hour to recharge your EV, so it is not available for use during that
>time.
His is typical of a sideline quarterback. Criticizing something he knows nothing
about. Out here in the real world with folks like me who actually DRIVE an electric
vehicle or two, things are a bit different.
Some days, having to plug that darn thing in was something I dreaded way out of
proportion to the inconvenience. Mine being a pure battery electric, I had little
choice. A plug-in hybrid gives one the option to say "screw it, I'll plug it in
tomorrow and simply run the engine. Then that turns into two days in a row and....
I've spent a good deal of time trying to figure out what makes plugging the thing in
seem so unpleasant at times. I think that much of it has to do with it interrupting
the linear life flow, interrupting a routine that is deeply ingrained. Get out of
the car, holding whatever I bought on the trip. Hold keys in hand as I close the
door. Walk to the house door, open it and step inside. Set down the packages. Sit
down and relax from the trip.
Plugging the thing in requires one to either set the packages down or come back.
Wasted steps or wasted effort. It's only a minor annoyance since I have a convenient
place to park near my outlet. Those who have to park on the street or in an
apartment complex parking lot will find the hassle factor much higher.
Thinking back, I realized that this is nothing new. It was equally annoying to have
to get out to plug in the block heater in my gas car in the winter.
Undoubtedly a lot of people will do it but a lot won't too. I suspect that the
"won't"s will be a large enough group that PEVs will remain sideline specialty
products.
You're right about the other aspect. Even when I was driving 70 miles to work, a
tank of gas would last a week. For the last 20 years, the amount of daily driving I
did amounted to a tank every couple weeks. Now semi-retired, a month or more goes by
between fillups. Ironically, I still have to plug the car in, this time, a float
charger to keep the battery fresh :-) I still hate doing it!
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Okay, okay, I'll take it back ... UNfuck you!
| |
| Vaughn Simon 2007-06-16, 1:25 pm |
|
"Balanced View" <Nill@nill.net> wrote in message news:f50sf3$jc$1@aioe.org...
> The thread has been about plug in hybrids such as the modified Toyota Prius,
> which you can drive in either mode.
Point taken, we can expand a bit can't we?
> The average commute is less than 30 miles a day in the USA, which means you'd
> only have to plug it in once a day.
You are assuming that: 1) The car is good for 30 miles with a safe reserve,
and 2) the car is only used for commuting. Two very big (and probably wrong)
assumptions.
> If the American people are ...
Who said anything about "American people"? Transportation is a worldwide
market. Cars are used all over the world and made all over the world. It is
the same hassle for a person of any nationality to plug in a car. In short,
your xenophobia is showing.
Vaughn
| |
| Anthony Matonak 2007-06-16, 1:25 pm |
| Vaughn Simon wrote:
> "Balanced View" <Nill@nill.net> wrote in message news:f50sf3$jc$1@aioe.org...
....
>
> You are assuming that: 1) The car is good for 30 miles with a safe reserve,
> and 2) the car is only used for commuting. Two very big (and probably wrong)
> assumptions.
If we're talking about a plug in hybrid then the reserve is whatever
gas is left in the tank. Such a vehicle may be good for 30 miles on
batteries alone and another 300+ on gas after that. When used for
commuting it could be running almost entirely on electricity and when
used for any longer distance drive then it would run more on gas.
Electricity is usually cheaper than gas.
>
> Who said anything about "American people"? Transportation is a worldwide
> market. Cars are used all over the world and made all over the world. It is
> the same hassle for a person of any nationality to plug in a car. In short,
> your xenophobia is showing.
How much of a hassle are we talking about? People plug in things all the
time that need recharging and they don't find it a onerous task. When
you get home at night, you take 20 or 30 seconds and plug the car in.
It's not like you have to sit there and watch it all night charging.
Anthony
| |
| William Wixon 2007-06-16, 1:25 pm |
|
"Neon John" <no@never.com> wrote in message
news:mst773dbicld5ptugfpokvb27l1ttuitmo@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 12:06:42 GMT, "Vaughn Simon"
> <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.FAKE.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> Some days, having to plug that darn thing in was something I dreaded way
> out of
> proportion to the inconvenience. Mine being a pure battery electric, I
> had little
> choice. A plug-in hybrid gives one the option to say "screw it, I'll plug
> it in
> tomorrow and simply run the engine. Then that turns into two days in a
> row and....
>
this discussion made me think of having to feed a horse when you got home
from going into town. wonder how long and at what point owning/using a
horse will become economical/practical. :-) (not that i'm opposed to
plugging in a car, etc.) (at least you can "grow your own fuel")
| |
| Balanced View 2007-06-16, 1:25 pm |
| Chris Hill wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 10:43:09 -0400, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> If it has, then that's a good reason not to put a bunch of cars on it,
> it wouldn't be able to take the strain. Another deal killer to these
> is that gas taxes maintain the roads. The government would have to
> find a way to get their pound of flesh.
>
If the government is talking billions to try and put in an
infrastructure for a crappy fuel like hydrogen
surely we would be better off improving the electrical grid instead.
| |
| Balanced View 2007-06-16, 1:25 pm |
| Chris Hill wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 10:37:53 -0400, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Considering the slight average benefit of the extra work, most people
> wouldn't mess with it. If they could find a way for the vehicles to
> either plug themselves in automatically or get electricity through
> some sort of inductive coupling, it might work.
>
LOL, then the USA is finished.
| |
| Balanced View 2007-06-16, 1:25 pm |
| Neon John wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 12:06:42 GMT, "Vaughn Simon" <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.FAKE.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> His is typical of a sideline quarterback. Criticizing something he knows nothing
> about. Out here in the real world with folks like me who actually DRIVE an electric
> vehicle or two, things are a bit different.
>
> Some days, having to plug that darn thing in was something I dreaded way out of
> proportion to the inconvenience. Mine being a pure battery electric, I had little
> choice. A plug-in hybrid gives one the option to say "screw it, I'll plug it in
> tomorrow and simply run the engine. Then that turns into two days in a row and....
>
> I've spent a good deal of time trying to figure out what makes plugging the thing in
> seem so unpleasant at times. I think that much of it has to do with it interrupting
> the linear life flow, interrupting a routine that is deeply ingrained. Get out of
> the car, holding whatever I bought on the trip. Hold keys in hand as I close the
> door. Walk to the house door, open it and step inside. Set down the packages. Sit
> down and relax from the trip.
>
> Plugging the thing in requires one to either set the packages down or come back.
> Wasted steps or wasted effort. It's only a minor annoyance since I have a convenient
> place to park near my outlet. Those who have to park on the street or in an
> apartment complex parking lot will find the hassle factor much higher.
>
> Thinking back, I realized that this is nothing new. It was equally annoying to have
> to get out to plug in the block heater in my gas car in the winter.
>
> Undoubtedly a lot of people will do it but a lot won't too. I suspect that the
> "won't"s will be a large enough group that PEVs will remain sideline specialty
> products.
>
> You're right about the other aspect. Even when I was driving 70 miles to work, a
> tank of gas would last a week. For the last 20 years, the amount of daily driving I
> did amounted to a tank every couple weeks. Now semi-retired, a month or more goes by
> between fillups. Ironically, I still have to plug the car in, this time, a float
> charger to keep the battery fresh :-) I still hate doing it!
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.neon-john.com
> http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> Okay, okay, I'll take it back ... UNfuck you!
>
>
I don't get it at all, I mean you have to take the garbage out, walk the
dog, dump the kitty litter etc... all of which take
far longer than sticking a plug in the wall. But then I live in Canada
and grew up having to plug in the car all winter for
the block heater, plugging it in was automatic, I didn't give it a
single thought.
| |
| Balanced View 2007-06-16, 1:25 pm |
| Vaughn Simon wrote:
> "Balanced View" <Nill@nill.net> wrote in message news:f50sf3$jc$1@aioe.org...
>
>
> Point taken, we can expand a bit can't we?
>
>
>
> You are assuming that: 1) The car is good for 30 miles with a safe reserve,
> and 2) the car is only used for commuting. Two very big (and probably wrong)
> assumptions.
>
>
Which is why the plug in hybrid makes perfect sense, you can drive it
like a regular ICE if you need to.
>
> Who said anything about "American people"? Transportation is a worldwide
> market. Cars are used all over the world and made all over the world. It is
> the same hassle for a person of any nationality to plug in a car. In short,
> your xenophobia is showing.
>
>
> Vaughn
>
>
>
It's the American people who seem to be resisting any change, the
Europeans and Japanese are years ahead in
energy conservation.
Do you have any idea how ridiculous the statement "few people will
bother with the day-to-day hassle of plugging
the thing in" sounds? Is this the same people that built the most
powerful country in the world out of a wilderness,
now unable or unwilling to summon up the energy to stick a plug in the wall?
| |
| Balanced View 2007-06-16, 1:25 pm |
| William Wixon wrote:
> "Neon John" <no@never.com> wrote in message
> news:mst773dbicld5ptugfpokvb27l1ttuitmo@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> this discussion made me think of having to feed a horse when you got home
> from going into town. wonder how long and at what point owning/using a
> horse will become economical/practical. :-) (not that i'm opposed to
> plugging in a car, etc.) (at least you can "grow your own fuel")
>
>
>
>
>
Plus you get the benefit of never having to buy another horse, provided
you have a mare and a stallion ;~)
Not to mention all that high grade fertilizer!
| |
| Vaughn Simon 2007-06-16, 5:25 pm |
|
"Balanced View" <Nill@nill.net> wrote in message news:f518m3$b81$1@aioe.org...
> Vaughn Simon wrote:
>
> It's the American people who seem to be resisting any change, the Europeans
> and Japanese are years ahead in
> energy conservation.
>
> Do you have any idea how ridiculous the statement "few people will bother with
> the day-to-day hassle of plugging
> the thing in" sounds?
Talk to the person who made the statement. It wasn't me.
>Is this the same people that built the most powerful country in the world out
>of a wilderness,
> now unable or unwilling to summon up the energy to stick a plug in the wall?
Do you know if the person who made the statement was American? Even if it
was, does that person's opinion somehow tar all Americans? Your xenophobia is
still showing. Is it OK to assume that all folks from your country are
xenophobic?
Vaughn
| |
| Balanced View 2007-06-16, 5:25 pm |
| Vaughn Simon wrote:
> "Balanced View" <Nill@nill.net> wrote in message news:f518m3$b81$1@aioe.org...
>
>
> Talk to the person who made the statement. It wasn't me.
>
>
>
> Do you know if the person who made the statement was American? Even if it
> was, does that person's opinion somehow tar all Americans? Your xenophobia is
> still showing. Is it OK to assume that all folks from your country are
> xenophobic?
>
> Vaughn
>
>
>
Xenophobia? Hardly, this thread is resurrected about the Hybrids, notibly the
"Toyota Prius hybrid to the steps of Capitol Hill". Last time I checked the Capitol
Hill was in the USA.
| |
| Vaughn Simon 2007-06-16, 5:25 pm |
|
"Balanced View" <Nill@nill.net> wrote in message news:f51l8n$qmt$1@aioe.org...
>
> Xenophobia? Hardly, this thread is resurrected about the Hybrids, notibly the
> "Toyota Prius hybrid to the steps of Capitol Hill". Last time I checked the
> Capitol Hill was in the USA.
Nice try, but I was not talking about the Prius, neither were you. We were
talking about your xenophobic take on somebody's statement that ""few people
will bother with the day-to-day hassle of plugging the thing in"
Anyhow, I have had enough of this silliness.
Bye for now,
Vaughn
>
| |
| Eeyore 2007-06-16, 8:25 pm |
|
Balanced View wrote:
> If the government is talking billions to try and put in an
> infrastructure for a crappy fuel like hydrogen
Is it ?
Graham
| |
| Balanced View 2007-06-16, 8:25 pm |
| Eeyore wrote:
> Balanced View wrote:
>
>
>
> Is it ?
>
> Graham
>
>
Bush's "State of the Union Speech", "The Hydrogen Fuel Initiative". In
his 2003 State of the Union address,
President Bush announced a $1.2 billion Hydrogen Fuel Initiative to
develop technology for commercially
viable hydrogen-powered fuel cells, which would power cars, trucks,
homes, and businesses with no pollution
or greenhouse gases.
| |
| Balanced View 2007-06-16, 8:25 pm |
| Vaughn Simon wrote:
> "Balanced View" <Nill@nill.net> wrote in message news:f51l8n$qmt$1@aioe.org...
>
>
> Nice try, but I was not talking about the Prius, neither were you. We were
> talking about your xenophobic take on somebody's statement that ""few people
> will bother with the day-to-day hassle of plugging the thing in"
>
Everyone else was talking about plugin hybrides, the thread started was
by leonard-abbott@webtv.net
whose first paragraph was:
"Felix Kramer is on a mission, one that carried him and his new plug-in
Toyota Prius hybrid to the steps of Capitol Hill. There he and
representatives of Electro Energy, which brought along their own plug-in
Prius, showcased to some of Washington's most powerful politicians, from
Orrin Hatch to Hilary Clinton, technology that can help make America
less dependent on petroleum: cars that can get 100 mpg".
My post throughout this thread have been regarding the plug in hybrids,
You are the one who brought up EV's to which I replied:
"The thread has been about plug in hybrids such as the modified Toyota
Prius, which you can drive in either mode.
The average commute is less than 30 miles a day in the USA, which means
you'd only have to plug it in once a day.
If the American people are too lazy to even take one minute to stick a
plug in the wall at the end of the day, you are well and truly doomed".
> Anyhow, I have had enough of this silliness.
>
Nah you just don't like being shown the door.........
> Bye for now,
> Vaughn
>
>
>
>
>
| |
|
| > Some days, having to plug that darn thing in was something I dreaded way
> out of
> proportion to the inconvenience.
I wonder how hard it would be to design the car to plug itself in? Say when
you turn the car off, it sends out a signal asking "am I at home base?". If
yes, a specially designed plug would respond. Then the two would (somehow)
come together. Of course, this works a lot better if we're talking garage
and not street parking 
| |
| Balanced View 2007-06-17, 3:25 am |
| Kitep wrote:
>
> I wonder how hard it would be to design the car to plug itself in? Say when
> you turn the car off, it sends out a signal asking "am I at home base?". If
> yes, a specially designed plug would respond. Then the two would (somehow)
> come together. Of course, this works a lot better if we're talking garage
> and not street parking
>
>
>
It would probably be easier to program the cars computer to say in Mr.
T's Voice, " Plug in the Car Fool"
when you park the car ;~)
| |
| Anthony Matonak 2007-06-17, 3:25 am |
| Kitep wrote:
This sounds like a personal problem. While I have no statistic, I don't
think this is very common.
[color=darkred]
> I wonder how hard it would be to design the car to plug itself in? Say when
> you turn the car off, it sends out a signal asking "am I at home base?". If
> yes, a specially designed plug would respond. Then the two would (somehow)
> come together. Of course, this works a lot better if we're talking garage
> and not street parking
They have computers that can automatically pilot and dock spacecraft.
I don't think this is any more complicated. You would need some form
of mechanical arm and a guidance system of some kind.
It seems overkill compared to just getting out of the car and plugging
it in yourself. It's not like cars automatically fill themselves with
gas, change their own oil or rotate their own tires.
Anthony
| |
| Eeyore 2007-06-17, 9:25 am |
|
Kitep wrote:
>
> I wonder how hard it would be to design the car to plug itself in? Say when
> you turn the car off, it sends out a signal asking "am I at home base?". If
> yes, a specially designed plug would respond. Then the two would (somehow)
> come together. Of course, this works a lot better if we're talking garage
> and not street parking
Ah yes, you're American
Any excuse to avoid exercise or some presumed 'inconvenience'.
Graham
| |
|
|
|
| Chris Hill <hillco@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:rmt77317720cvgntrthga9vg0a3siobfm5@4ax.com:
> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 10:43:09 -0400, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> If it has, then that's a good reason not to put a bunch of cars on it,
> it wouldn't be able to take the strain. Another deal killer to these
> is that gas taxes maintain the roads. The government would have to
> find a way to get their pound of flesh.
Its never a bad investment to upgrade your infrastructure. The grids in
the NE went tits that one time and everyone was shut down. People were
pissing and moaning .. I, naturally, have my own power system, but
regular people, manufacturing, data storage facilities etc would all
beneifit from a state of the art power distribution system.
If we can piss money away on military spending and the like we can
certainly dump a 1/2 a trillion on a bitchin new grid.
Probably should build some nuke stations to juice it, but match all funds
spent on nukes to subsidise solar and other means of generation.
Now this would cost a lot of money, but I think it would pay for itself
in economic boost if we did a good job designing and building it. It
would also put a lot of people to work.
| |
| Neon John 2007-07-11, 1:25 pm |
| On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 04:05:20 -0500, z <z@yada.yada.com> wrote:
>Probably should build some nuke stations to juice it, but match all funds
>spent on nukes to subsidise solar and other means of generation.
First off, "money spent on nukes" would be private money, for the most part, since
most utilities are non-governmental and the ones that are exist outside federal
funding. Second, why would you shackle a known good source of energy with that kind
of cost just to piss the money down a hole?
John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
You have a magnetic personality... That must be why all your mental floppies are blank.
| |
|
| Neon John <no@never.com> wrote in
news:3r6a939b2dcdvibtu77874vdhsnr7gaqmh@4ax.com:
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 04:05:20 -0500, z <z@yada.yada.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> First off, "money spent on nukes" would be private money, for the most
> part, since most utilities are non-governmental and the ones that are
> exist outside federal funding.
with massive subsidies, tax breaks, access to federal land and so on.
> Second, why would you shackle a known
> good source of energy with that kind of cost just to piss the money
> down a hole?
Sorry i'm a bit thick. What known good source of energy are we talking
about? Petrol? Who said anything about shackling that?
>
> John
> --
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.neon-john.com
> http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
> Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
> You have a magnetic personality... That must be why all your mental
> floppies are blank.
>
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