Alternative Power sources - Hydrogen Briefing to Take Place In U.S. Senate this week

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Hydrogen Briefing to Take Place In U.S. Senate this week

lkgeo1

2007-06-23, 5:25 pm

Hydrogen Briefing to Take Place In U.S. Senate this week

Publication Date:19-June-2007
09:30 AM US Eastern Timezone
Source:FuelCellWorks
HYDROGEN and POLICY: Challenges and Opportunities A briefing sponsored
by the Senate Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Caucus, in cooperation with the
National Hydrogen Association and the American Chemical Society's
Science and the Congress Project

Thursday, June 21, 2007, 1:30-3:30pm
Mansfield Room, S-207, U.S. Capitol

Strong and far-reaching hydrogen and fuel cell provisions were
included in the Energy Policy Act of 2005, which span everything from
basic science to early market transition. In concert with substantial
federal and state programs over the years, many large and small
companies, universities, research institutions and national
laboratories have worked to solve critical research and development
challenges. There is a large, vibrant and growing hydrogen community
in the U.S. and worldwide.

This briefing will explore the purposes of the EPAct 05 hydrogen
provisions, a hydrogen economy's premier carbon benefits, the broad
efforts of several key companies that are partnering with the U.S
Department of Energy in comprehensive RD&D efforts, a package of tax
incentives and the opportunities for the 110th Congress. We expect a
vigorous discussion.

Hydrogen Highlights: EPAct 05 and Beyond - Jerome Hinkle, National
Hydrogen Association

Hydrogen Fueling Infrastructure: Today's Status and Tomorrow's Needs -
Richard Goodstein, Air Products and
Chemicals

Addressing Energy Security and Climate Change: Transforming the
Transportation Sector - Keith Cole, General
Motors

Motive Power for Light and Heavy Vehicles - Judith Bayer, UTC Power

Building New Markets for Hydrogen and Fuel Cells - Ethan Brown,
Ballard Power Systems

There will be additional displays of hydrogen and fuel cell
applications from the Department of Defense.

For further information, please contact Jerome Hinkle of the National
Hydrogen Association (202.261.1307). Please RSVP by June 19th
toc_maxwell@acs.org [c_maxwell@acs.org](excepting Hill staff, the
Capitol requires an advance attendee list). After the briefing,
several manufacturers
will have hydrogen vehicles available at Peace Circle for
demonstration.

Mike Swift

2007-06-24, 8:25 pm

In article <1182636819.081336.274500@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
lkgeo1 <lkgeo1@aol.com> wrote:

> Hydrogen Briefing to Take Place In U.S. Senate this week
>
> Publication Date:19-June-2007
> 09:30 AM US Eastern Timezone
> Source:FuelCellWorks
> HYDROGEN and POLICY: Challenges and Opportunities A briefing sponsored
> by the Senate Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Caucus, in cooperation with the
> National Hydrogen Association and the American Chemical Society's
> Science and the Congress Project
>
> Thursday, June 21, 2007, 1:30-3:30pm
> Mansfield Room, S-207, U.S. Capitol
>
> Strong and far-reaching hydrogen and fuel cell provisions were
> included in the Energy Policy Act of 2005, which span everything from
> basic science to early market transition. In concert with substantial
> federal and state programs over the years, many large and small
> companies, universities, research institutions and national
> laboratories have worked to solve critical research and development
> challenges. There is a large, vibrant and growing hydrogen community
> in the U.S. and worldwide.
>
> This briefing will explore the purposes of the EPAct 05 hydrogen
> provisions, a hydrogen economy's premier carbon benefits, the broad
> efforts of several key companies that are partnering with the U.S
> Department of Energy in comprehensive RD&D efforts, a package of tax
> incentives and the opportunities for the 110th Congress. We expect a
> vigorous discussion.
>
> Hydrogen Highlights: EPAct 05 and Beyond - Jerome Hinkle, National
> Hydrogen Association
>
> Hydrogen Fueling Infrastructure: Today's Status and Tomorrow's Needs -
> Richard Goodstein, Air Products and
> Chemicals
>
> Addressing Energy Security and Climate Change: Transforming the
> Transportation Sector - Keith Cole, General
> Motors
>
> Motive Power for Light and Heavy Vehicles - Judith Bayer, UTC Power
>
> Building New Markets for Hydrogen and Fuel Cells - Ethan Brown,
> Ballard Power Systems
>
> There will be additional displays of hydrogen and fuel cell
> applications from the Department of Defense.
>
> For further information, please contact Jerome Hinkle of the National
> Hydrogen Association (202.261.1307). Please RSVP by June 19th
> toc_maxwell@acs.org [c_maxwell@acs.org](excepting Hill staff, the
> Capitol requires an advance attendee list). After the briefing,
> several manufacturers
> will have hydrogen vehicles available at Peace Circle for
> demonstration.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Notice that nowhere is there any mention of economics. I guess with
enough laws and guns the economics dose not matter.

--
Mike

Remember companies do not pay taxes. They only collect
them from their customers for payment to the government.

2007-07-02, 5:25 pm

> Strong and far-reaching hydrogen and fuel cell provisions were
> included in the Energy Policy Act of 2005, which span everything from
> basic science to early market transition. In concert with substantial
> federal and state programs over the years, many large and small
> companies, universities, research institutions and national
> laboratories have worked to solve critical research and development
> challenges. There is a large, vibrant and growing hydrogen community
> in the U.S. and worldwide.

Supported entirely by government research grants and subsidies. Without
that, there would be no "hydrogen community", except for the traditional H2
uses in industry.

> After the briefing, several manufacturers
> will have hydrogen vehicles available at Peace Circle for
> demonstration.

Prototype concept cars that will never get into production. The H2 FC cars
are way too expensive, and the H2 ICE cars cost too much, have too short a
driving range, and are too costly to run. After all, how many people are
willing to pay over $10 GGE (gallon of gas equivalent) for fancy H2 fuel?

CM

Neon John

2007-07-02, 8:25 pm

On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 20:57:48 GMT, "CM" <cm@cm.not.really> wrote:

>Prototype concept cars that will never get into production. The H2 FC cars
>are way too expensive, and the H2 ICE cars cost too much, have too short a
>driving range, and are too costly to run. After all, how many people are
>willing to pay over $10 GGE (gallon of gas equivalent) for fancy H2 fuel?

Right you are. Hydrogen isn't an energy source. It's simply a particularly
inefficient method of transporting energy made by some other means. If someone asked
me to come up with THE worst possible energy transport mechanism, I couldn't think of
anything much worse.

Resembles a similar "controversy" built on hyped lies. That LEDs are/will be more
efficient than any other form of lighting. Something I read yesterday had some
professor (why would anyone print anything an academic says?) claiming that LEDs are
better than H/LPS for outdoor lighting. He based that on LEDs somehow achieving 150
lumens/watt. The very best state-of-the-art is around 80 and quantum limitations are
rearing their ugly heads at this point.

I recall a time when I made fun of past generations for believing in things like
phlogiston and blood letting and patent medicines. I now realize that nothing's
changed. In the past it was ritualistic witch burning. Now it's ritualistic worship
of "the environment". People repeat (and believe) crap that is demonstrably false on
its face. The so-called "hydrogen economy" is just one of many. About the only
thing that's changed is that modern media lets them act the fool at the speed of
light.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
If stupidity hurt then there'd be Aspirin in the salt shakers.

Anthony Matonak

2007-07-02, 9:25 pm

Neon John wrote:
....
> Hydrogen isn't an energy source. It's simply a particularly
> inefficient method of transporting energy made by some other means. If someone asked
> me to come up with THE worst possible energy transport mechanism, I couldn't think of
> anything much worse.

There is always something much worse. Not being able to think of it just
means a failure of research and imagination.

Consider the idea of broadcast electromagnetic energy that was put
forward some time back by a now rather famous fellow. This is so
incredibly inefficient that the vast majority of the energy is just
wasted. The advantage of wireless transmission of electricity is far
outweighed by the waste of energy and the occasional cooked trespasser.

Anthony

Eeyore

2007-07-03, 3:25 am

Anthony Matonak wrote:

> Neon John wrote:
> ...
>
> There is always something much worse. Not being able to think of it just
> means a failure of research and imagination.

Compressed air is pretty bad.

Graham

Neon John

2007-07-03, 3:25 am

On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 18:31:08 -0700, Anthony Matonak
<anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:

>Neon John wrote:
>...
>
>There is always something much worse. Not being able to think of it just
>means a failure of research and imagination.

>
>Consider the idea of broadcast electromagnetic energy that was put
>forward some time back by a now rather famous fellow. This is so
>incredibly inefficient that the vast majority of the energy is just
>wasted. The advantage of wireless transmission of electricity is far
>outweighed by the waste of energy and the occasional cooked trespasser.

I was trying to limit my consideration to things that might actually work in the
practical sense. Common ordinary radio and TV transmitters transmit actual energy
over long distances, enough to tickle the input stage of the receiver but few people
would suggest that useful amounts of power could be sent that way. Except for the
"solar stations in space beaming back power as microwaves" nuts, of course. I
haven't heard from that bunch in quite awhile.

The sad part is, all that tax money that is being wasted on this hydrogen crap (yet
more welfare to the business class) could actually accomplish something. Think how
many roadways could be electrified (embedded in the center of the lane or even
overhead). Hybrid powertrain architecture is perfect for that - get power from the
grid when on major roads, run on batteries elsewhere and run the fuel engine as the
last resort.

Both the engineering and the technology are old and straightforward, as is the path
to implementation. Plop down a couple hundred small nuke plants around the country
along with the necessary transmission infrastructure, install the roadway
distribution system, decide on a revenue model (tolls or in-car metering, for
example) and let 'er rip. Under or overhead conductive power pickups would add only
a trivial cost to the individual car. The hybrid's on-board battery would let the
vehicle drive through areas where live conductors would be undesirable - cross-walks,
for example.

Simple, straightforward and relatively inexpensive. No wonder the government loathes
that kind of solution.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Save a tree, kill a beaver

boB

2007-07-05, 5:25 pm

On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 18:31:08 -0700, Anthony Matonak
<anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:

>Consider the idea of broadcast electromagnetic energy that was put
>forward some time back by a now rather famous fellow. This is so
>incredibly inefficient that the vast majority of the energy is just
>wasted.

Yes, and I am enjoying some of that "waste" heat today myself !!

If you think about it, most of our energy already comes from
electromagnetic radiation... AND Fusion energy at that !!
No need to transmit it yourself like Tesla wanted to do. Too much
trouble !

boB

for example: example:
www.wirelessfusion.org

>Neon John wrote:
>...
>
>There is always something much worse. Not being able to think of it just
>means a failure of research and imagination.

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