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Home > Archive > Alternative Power sources > July 2007 > Replace woodstove with .....
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Replace woodstove with .....
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| daniel.dekkers@yahoo.com 2007-06-29, 5:25 pm |
| All,
We could really use some input around the replacement of our current
primary heat source. We live in a rural area and currently rely mostly
on a woodstove as the primary heat source. We do have some electric
baseboards as well but when runnig these our electrical bill explodes.
We live in BC , Canada and our electricl rate is 0.06 CAD per KW.
We have done a lot of research across the many alternative that exist
today: air-to-air heatpumps, air-to-water heatpumps, ground source
heatpumps (Geo), pellet boilers etc. We don't have natural gas
available so that is not an options. After going through all the
options I have come to the conclusion that the best replacement
(considering all things like cost, comfort, noise, environment etc) is
to put in an electrical boiler (dual energy so we can use propane as
the backup for when we loose power) in combination with hydronic
baseboards. We will likely need somewhere abour 50,000 - 60,000 BTU
and our sqft is around 2200 (two story home with split levels and
vaulted seiling, skylights etc). The house was built in 1982 and
insulation is not great (but also not terribly bad e.g. we do have
double paned windows).
Before contacting heating contractors it would be great if people in
this group could help provide some input to whether we are on the
right track, anything that we are missing etc etc.
The cost of this solution is looking at around $3,000 USD for the
basebaords and $2,000 for the dual energy boiler. Of course on top of
that we will have the installation and plumbing.
Thanks in advance,
Daniel
| |
| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2007-06-29, 5:25 pm |
| <daniel.dekkers@yahoo.com> wrote:
>We could really use some input around the replacement of our current
>primary heat source. We live in a rural area and currently rely mostly
>on a woodstove as the primary heat source. We do have some electric
>baseboards as well but when runnig these our electrical bill explodes.
>We live in BC , Canada...
How about an inexpensiveo sunspace for solar heating domestic hot water?
The 1981 NRC Solarium Workbook says 1358 Wh/m^2 of sun falls
on a south wall on an average 4 C December day in Vancouver.
Nick
| |
| Anthony Matonak 2007-06-29, 5:25 pm |
| daniel.dekkers@yahoo.com wrote:
....
> We have done a lot of research across the many alternative that exist
> today: air-to-air heatpumps, air-to-water heatpumps, ground source
> heatpumps (Geo), pellet boilers etc.
I can't offer any help but I am curious as to objections to the
pellet boilers. You mentioned you were both rural and using a
wood stove so wood pellets would seem to be a logical leap.
There are places that sell small pellet mills, though you would
need a source of wood and probably other equipment like chippers
and dryers and the like.
http://www.pelletpros.com/index.html
Anthony
| |
|
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<daniel.dekkers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1183150597.354571.195460@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> All,
>
> We could really use some input around the replacement of our current
> primary heat source. We live in a rural area and currently rely mostly
> on a woodstove as the primary heat source. We do have some electric
> baseboards as well but when runnig these our electrical bill explodes.
> We live in BC , Canada and our electricl rate is 0.06 CAD per KW.
WOW! .06 CAD A kilowatt hour??
I could only DREAM of such a thing! I am at .16 USD
Wish my electric bill could "explode" like yours.
>
> We have done a lot of research across the many alternative that exist
> today: air-to-air heatpumps, air-to-water heatpumps, ground source
> heatpumps (Geo), pellet boilers etc. We don't have natural gas
> available so that is not an options. After going through all the
> options I have come to the conclusion that the best replacement
> (considering all things like cost, comfort, noise, environment etc) is
> to put in an electrical boiler (dual energy so we can use propane as
> the backup for when we loose power) in combination with hydronic
> baseboards. We will likely need somewhere abour 50,000 - 60,000 BTU
> and our sqft is around 2200 (two story home with split levels and
> vaulted seiling, skylights etc). The house was built in 1982 and
> insulation is not great (but also not terribly bad e.g. we do have
> double paned windows).
>
> Before contacting heating contractors it would be great if people in
> this group could help provide some input to whether we are on the
> right track, anything that we are missing etc etc.
>
> The cost of this solution is looking at around $3,000 USD for the
> basebaords and $2,000 for the dual energy boiler. Of course on top of
> that we will have the installation and plumbing.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Daniel
>
| |
| Steve Spence 2007-06-29, 8:25 pm |
| Most folks dump the electric for heat. Seems backwards.
We are installing a HS Tarm gasifying wood boiler, 85% efficient.
http://www.woodboilers.com
--
Steve Spence
Director, Green-Trust
http://www.green-trust.org
<daniel.dekkers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1183150597.354571.195460@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> All,
>
> We could really use some input around the replacement of our current
> primary heat source. We live in a rural area and currently rely mostly
> on a woodstove as the primary heat source. We do have some electric
> baseboards as well but when runnig these our electrical bill explodes.
> We live in BC , Canada and our electricl rate is 0.06 CAD per KW.
>
> We have done a lot of research across the many alternative that exist
> today: air-to-air heatpumps, air-to-water heatpumps, ground source
> heatpumps (Geo), pellet boilers etc. We don't have natural gas
> available so that is not an options. After going through all the
> options I have come to the conclusion that the best replacement
> (considering all things like cost, comfort, noise, environment etc) is
> to put in an electrical boiler (dual energy so we can use propane as
> the backup for when we loose power) in combination with hydronic
> baseboards. We will likely need somewhere abour 50,000 - 60,000 BTU
> and our sqft is around 2200 (two story home with split levels and
> vaulted seiling, skylights etc). The house was built in 1982 and
> insulation is not great (but also not terribly bad e.g. we do have
> double paned windows).
>
> Before contacting heating contractors it would be great if people in
> this group could help provide some input to whether we are on the
> right track, anything that we are missing etc etc.
>
> The cost of this solution is looking at around $3,000 USD for the
> basebaords and $2,000 for the dual energy boiler. Of course on top of
> that we will have the installation and plumbing.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Daniel
>
| |
| Eeyore 2007-06-29, 8:25 pm |
|
daniel.dekkers@yahoo.com wrote:
> All,
>
> We could really use some input around the replacement of our current
> primary heat source. We live in a rural area and currently rely mostly
> on a woodstove as the primary heat source. We do have some electric
> baseboards as well but when runnig these our electrical bill explodes.
> We live in BC , Canada and our electricl rate is 0.06 CAD per KW.
I wish electricity was that cheap here in the UK !
Graham
| |
| no spam 2007-06-29, 8:25 pm |
| > We could really use some input around the replacement of our current
> primary heat source. We live in a rural area and currently rely mostly
> on a woodstove as the primary heat source. We do have some electric
> baseboards as well but when runnig these our electrical bill explodes.
> We live in BC , Canada and our electricl rate is 0.06 CAD per KW.
Have you looked into replacing your current wood stove with a 'masonry' wood
stove? That's where I'd look first.
| |
| Loren Amelang 2007-06-30, 1:25 pm |
| On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 20:56:37 -0000, daniel.dekkers@yahoo.com wrote:
>We could really use some input around the replacement of our current
>primary heat source. We live in a rural area and currently rely mostly
>on a woodstove as the primary heat source. We do have some electric
>baseboards as well but when runnig these our electrical bill explodes.
>We live in BC , Canada and our electricl rate is 0.06 CAD per KW.
Amazingly, electric heat is no longer always the expensive solution.
At our 11.4 cent US "baseline" rate, it is cheaper than propane. The
next step up in usage (101 to 130% of baseline) was equal to propane
last winter. In parts of Nebraska served by public utilities with
nuclear plants, electric heat was actually cheaper than natural gas
for parts of last winter!
>After going through all the
>options I have come to the conclusion that the best replacement
>(considering all things like cost, comfort, noise, environment etc) is
>to put in an electrical boiler (dual energy so we can use propane as
>the backup for when we loose power) in combination with hydronic
>baseboards.
I see the dual-fuel backup advantage, but electric-to-hydronic
baseboards can't be any more efficient than direct electric
baseboards. You might be more comfortable with more and
better-arranged new baseboards, but your electric bill will "explode"
by at least as much as now. If you're really rural, it is probably
quiet enough that you'll hear the hydronic pump, so direct electric
wins on noise, too. And it clearly wins on installation cost.
If you put in radiant floor heat, you could be comfortable with lower
air temperatures and save by reducing heat losses, but baseboards are
mostly convective - they heat the air, it rises to the ceiling, and
you turn up the thermostat until some of the heat gets down to your
level. Consider very carefully how often you feel the radiant heat
from your woodstove. It isn't as enveloping as a radiant floor, but at
least one side of you at a time can be warm independently of the air
temperature.
You might consider electric radiant panels, but they're hard to
integrate with furniture... There are also radiant ceilings that are
easier to retrofit than radiant floors.
Loren
| |
| GeekBoy 2007-06-30, 8:25 pm |
|
"Anthony Matonak" <anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:46857ce6$0$3110$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> daniel.dekkers@yahoo.com wrote:
> ...
>
> I can't offer any help but I am curious as to objections to the
> pellet boilers. You mentioned you were both rural and using a
> wood stove so wood pellets would seem to be a logical leap.
>
Because pellets are not a dependable source.
In the Winter of 2005-2006 there was a mass shortage of pellets as they
became popular. The result was the people bought other ways to heat their
homes.
> There are places that sell small pellet mills, though you would
> need a source of wood and probably other equipment like chippers
> and dryers and the like.
> http://www.pelletpros.com/index.html
>
> Anthony
| |
| daniel.dekkers@yahoo.com 2007-07-03, 8:25 pm |
| On Jun 29, 2:19 pm, "Steve Spence" <sspe...@green-trust.org> wrote:
> Most folks dump the electric for heat. Seems backwards.
>
> We are installing a HS Tarm gasifyingwoodboiler, 85% efficient.
>
> http://www.woodboilers.com
>
> --
> Steve Spence
> Director, Green-Trusthttp://www.green-trust.org<daniel.dekk...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1183150597.354571.195460@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
Forgot to mention but natural Gas is not available in our area.....
Daniel
| |
| Steve Spence 2007-07-03, 9:25 pm |
|
<daniel.dekkers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1183504808.415652.160120@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 29, 2:19 pm, "Steve Spence" <sspe...@green-trust.org> wrote:
>
>
> Forgot to mention but natural Gas is not available in our area.....
> Daniel
>
The Tarm doesn't use gas, it uses wood.
--
Steve Spence
Director, Green-Trust
http://www.green-trust.org
| |
| George Ghio 2007-07-04, 3:25 am |
| Steve Spence wrote:
> <daniel.dekkers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1183504808.415652.160120@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> The Tarm doesn't use gas, it uses wood.
>
Steve,
Suggest you re-read the post.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
| |
| nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu 2007-07-04, 9:25 am |
| >We are installing a HS Tarm gasifyingwoodboiler, 85% efficient.
Can you improve that with a condensing chimney made with SV special gas vent
concentric pipe from American Metal Products?
I've heard Tarm installations with a heat storage tank involve fairly
complex controls and plumbing.
Nick
| |
| Steve Spence 2007-07-04, 9:25 am |
| No more complex than a solar hot water system, or a radiant floor system.
Not to be attempted by oneself unless you have plumbing experience. It's
worth it to me in the reduced wood usage, the decreased emissions, and the
ability to store the heat from my solar panels and veggie gen.
--
Steve Spence
Director, Green-Trust
http://www.green-trust.org
<nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu> wrote in message
news:f6flv5$qa9@acadia.ece.villanova.edu...
>
> Can you improve that with a condensing chimney made with SV special gas
> vent
> concentric pipe from American Metal Products?
>
> I've heard Tarm installations with a heat storage tank involve fairly
> complex controls and plumbing.
>
> Nick
>
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