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| Author |
Narural Gas Portable Generator
|
|
| DavidB 2007-07-06, 8:25 pm |
| I am searching for a natural gas 14+ KW generator on wheels for
back-up power to my house. Does anyone know where I can find one or if
one is even available?
| |
| Vaughn Simon 2007-07-06, 8:25 pm |
|
"DavidB" <#davidb105#@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:468ec6a3.177641262@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net...
>I am searching for a natural gas 14+ KW generator on wheels for
> back-up power to my house. Does anyone know where I can find one or if
> one is even available?
That is a REALLY big generator to be portable!
12 KW won't do?
http://www.yamaha-propane-natural-g.../ef12000dec.htm This is
about the biggest NG portable generator I know of.
If you REALLY need 15 KW, then you will probably end up buying something
like a Kohler 15RESL (Or the Onan equiv.) and putting it on your own trailer. I
don't know what a flexible gas hookup for a rig like that would look like.
http://www.kohlerpower.com/resident...1&prodnum=51761
Understand that a generator that big will be seriously expensive to
operate. We are talking about a gas bill in the low thousands of $ per month if
ran 24/7. It is possible that you will need a larger gas hookup to your house
to supply the volume of gas that you will need for such a large generator, plus
the normal gas flow for your house. That may not be cheap.
My household gets by with only 4 KW ( no heavy cooking, no central air). I
have calculated that even that little genny could burn 6 to 800 hundred dollars
of natural gas per month if ran 24/7. (We figure we can get by on 8 hours per
day)
Vaughn
| |
| DavidB 2007-07-07, 5:25 pm |
| 12 KW might be OK. I had no idea they were so expensive to run, but
since it will just be for an emergency, the cost is not a primary
issue.
Thanks for the URL.
On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 00:34:51 GMT, "Vaughn Simon"
<vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.FAKE.net> wrote:
|
|"DavidB" <#davidb105#@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
|news:468ec6a3.177641262@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net...
|>I am searching for a natural gas 14+ KW generator on wheels for
|> back-up power to my house. Does anyone know where I can find one or if
|> one is even available?
|
| That is a REALLY big generator to be portable!
|
| 12 KW won't do?
|http://www.yamaha-propane-natural-g.../ef12000dec.htm This is
|about the biggest NG portable generator I know of.
|
| If you REALLY need 15 KW, then you will probably end up buying something
|like a Kohler 15RESL (Or the Onan equiv.) and putting it on your own trailer. I
|don't know what a flexible gas hookup for a rig like that would look like.
|http://www.kohlerpower.com/resident...1&prodnum=51761
|
| Understand that a generator that big will be seriously expensive to
|operate. We are talking about a gas bill in the low thousands of $ per month if
|ran 24/7. It is possible that you will need a larger gas hookup to your house
|to supply the volume of gas that you will need for such a large generator, plus
|the normal gas flow for your house. That may not be cheap.
|
| My household gets by with only 4 KW ( no heavy cooking, no central air). I
|have calculated that even that little genny could burn 6 to 800 hundred dollars
|of natural gas per month if ran 24/7. (We figure we can get by on 8 hours per
|day)
|
|Vaughn
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| Bruce in Alaska 2007-07-07, 5:25 pm |
| In article <468ec6a3.177641262@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net>,
#davidb105#@sbcglobal.net (DavidB) wrote:
> I am searching for a natural gas 14+ KW generator on wheels for
> back-up power to my house. Does anyone know where I can find one or if
> one is even available?
Kind of depends on where you are. I have an Onan 15.0RJC-18R/12AA
that can be conveted to Propane/Natural Gas, that sits on a Trailer.
It is in Alaska, and we lease it out to Remote Site Builders. Make
me an offer and figure $600 for Freight , to barge it to Seattle, Wa.
Bruce in alaska I got pictures......
--
add a <2> before @
| |
| philkryder 2007-07-07, 8:25 pm |
| On Jul 7, 11:40 am, #davidb1...@sbcglobal.net (DavidB) wrote:
> 12 KW might be OK. I had no idea they were so expensive to run, but
> since it will just be for an emergency, the cost is not a primary
> issue.
>
> Thanks for the URL.
> ....
If you can "get by" with less peak load, then here are a couple of
other alternatives:
http://www.centralmainediesel.com/o...p?page=H11000E5
http://01856bc.netsolhost.com/order...e=1019_tri_fuel
We use a model similar to the second one, but only run at about 5kw
continuous.
We have gotten over 1300 hours so far and it seems to run fine.
You need to check the and adjust valves every 250 hours or so (sooner
if you get hard starting).
We run propane which gives a bit more power than NG.
Costs will vary with your price for NG.
You might consider 2 of the second models.
If you can divide your load, then this would meet your total power
needs and give you a bit of redundancy.
These units will be noisy.
But, that may be ok in a backup mode.
Tri-fuel gives you good flexibility.
You might also consider a 250 gallon propane tank for backup fuel - in
case the NG gets shut off.
250 gal might last you 10 days.
If you can get by without portability, there are other options.
Be sure you understand and deal with the wiring and transfer switch
issues that apply to you.
Best.
Phil
| |
|
| On 2007-07-06, DavidB <#davidb105#@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> I am searching for a natural gas 14+ KW generator on wheels for
> back-up power to my house. Does anyone know where I can find one or if
> one is even available?
These have caught my eye recently, although they are a fair bit more
of everything than I would deem "necessary" for personal needs.
IIRC, I saw some stand-alone and some mounted on trailer, for sale, while
checking them out.
http://www.capstoneturbine.com/
--
Slackware 11.0, 2.6.20, K8M800 s754Sempron3100+, GF6200
RLU #272755
| |
| funkbastler 2007-07-08, 9:25 am |
| On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 18:40:39 GMT, #davidb105#@sbcglobal.net (DavidB) wrote:
>12 KW might be OK. I had no idea they were so expensive to run, but
>since it will just be for an emergency, the cost is not a primary
>issue.
>
You should be able to do with far less in temporary emergency situations.
We were without commercial power for over a week after an ice storm here
in January, and got by quite comfortably with a 5500 watt generator running
some lights, the refrigerator, pellet stove, and television. Even that
fairly light load took about 10 gallons of gasoline every 24 hours to keep
the generator going.
--
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---------- Not responsible for anything below this line ----------
Posted Via mcse.ms Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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| |
| (PeteCresswell) 2007-07-08, 9:25 pm |
| Per funkbastler:
> Even that
>fairly light load took about 10 gallons of gasoline every 24 hours to keep
>the generator going.
And the OP is on to something with the natural gas angle bc, as
somebody observed, during widespread power outages gasoline can
be hard to come by since many gas stations are also without
power.
--
PeteCresswell
| |
| GreenPower 2007-07-09, 7:59 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by (PeteCresswell)
Per funkbastler:
> Even that
>fairly light load took about 10 gallons of gasoline every 24 hours to keep
>the generator going.
And the OP is on to something with the natural gas angle bc, as
somebody observed, during widespread power outages gasoline can
be hard to come by since many gas stations are also without
power.
If you need high KW just for starting some motor load, how about a pair of stacked FXs (Outback inverters or other brands). A NG generator can re-charge the battery during day time and off (quiet) overnight. I convert my 5KW Robin gas engine to be dual fuel. I bought the regulator from http://www.propane-generators.com/garretson.htm and use this cheap power supply from http://www.weirdstuff.com/cgi-bin/item/22081# to charge the battery (need to know how to wire its control port to be stand alone PS). Quite nice to leave the generator off when the battery is fully charged. | |
| Vaughn Simon 2007-07-09, 1:25 pm |
|
"(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.Invalid> wrote in message
news:3s4393leo77p3f2ndrg9db14kubt0fnphv@4ax.com...
>
> And the OP is on to something with the natural gas angle bc, as
> somebody observed, during widespread power outages gasoline can
> be hard to come by since many gas stations are also without
> power.
As long as you keep in mind that the natural gas system is probably the
most reliable of all of your utilities, but it still may not survive a natural
disaster. My backup planning includes a couple 100# bottles of propane.
Vaughn
| |
|
|
On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 21:47:55 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.Invalid>
wrote:
>Per funkbastler:
>
>And the OP is on to something with the natural gas angle bc, as
>somebody observed, during widespread power outages gasoline can
>be hard to come by since many gas stations are also without
>power.
......and after natural disasters such as hurricanes and earthquakes
the natural gas pipelines frequently fail, water ingress meaning the
gas supply fails for many weeks.
Anyway unless you are in a remote location any property with lights
after such an event is a target for low-life. Just make sure you have
a bigger gun than any would be looters.
P.S. Haven't Americans realised how ridiculously stupid it is calling
petrol, gasoline; and then shortening it to gas?
--
| |
| (PeteCresswell) 2007-07-09, 1:25 pm |
| Per Mike:
>P.S. Haven't Americans realised how ridiculously stupid it is calling
>petrol, gasoline; and then shortening it to gas?
"The USA and the UK: two great nations separated by a common
language."
--
PeteCresswell
| |
| Vaughn Simon 2007-07-09, 8:25 pm |
|
"Mike" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:YJudnW0ko9njlA_bnZ2dnUVZ8qOtnZ2d@pipex.net...
>
>
> Anyway unless you are in a remote location any property with lights
> after such an event is a target for low-life. Just make sure you have
> a bigger gun than any would be looters.
In my experience (three hurricanes with major power outages, in the last
few years) the above in nonsense. There is a generator running in almost every
yard. More people are outside, which discourages crime even more than usual.
Biggest crime problem = stolen generators. Heck, with those new fluorescent
lanterns, you don't even need a generator to have a house full of light.
OK, New Orleans may have been an exception, but that was a special case.
Katrina was an absolutely terrible storm that hit an absolutely terrible place.
You don't need a storm to have crime in New Orleans.
>
> P.S. Haven't Americans realised how ridiculously stupid it is calling
> petrol, gasoline; and then shortening it to gas?
No. It works for us.
Vaughn
| |
| Johnny B Good 2007-07-09, 8:25 pm |
| The message <YJudnW0ko9njlA_bnZ2dnUVZ8qOtnZ2d@pipex.net>
from Mike <nospam@nospam.com> contains these words:
====snip====
> P.S. Haven't Americans realised how ridiculously stupid it is calling
> petrol, gasoline; and then shortening it to gas?
I don't suppose it's any more silly than a 'Brit' not realising that
the word 'petrol' is actually a contraction of the word 'petroleum'
(which is the british name for what the americans call 'gasoline' :-).
It's probably just 'dumb luck' that the inevitable contractions of
these generic product names generate a british word, free of ambiguity,
whilst the americans have to rely on context to resolve whether the word
is gas or an abbreviation of gasoline.
--
Regards, John.
Please remove the "ohggcyht" before replying.
The address has been munged to reject Spam-bots.
| |
|
| On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 11:10:05 +0100, Mike <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 21:47:55 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.Invalid>
>wrote:
>
>
>.....and after natural disasters such as hurricanes and earthquakes
>the natural gas pipelines frequently fail, water ingress meaning the
>gas supply fails for many weeks.
>
Earthquakes I won't argue, but natural gas rarely fails because of
hurricanes. The only instance I'm aware of was Katrina/New Orleans,
and the gas system didn't fail, it was shut down because of leaks
from houses that leaked gas when their appliances floated away.
Ten miles north, the nat gas stayed on. Cuz Nancy cooked for many on
her BBQ, struggled to find gasoline for the genset running her fridge,
freezer, and neighbor's freezer.
Vaughn has it covered. A genset rigged for vapor fuel will run on
propane or natural gas. NG set only needs a low pressure feed from
a BBQ or RV regulator and a minor mixture adjustment to run on LPG.
zero
| |
| philkryder 2007-07-10, 3:25 am |
| On Jul 9, 6:06 pm, zero <zerome...@go.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 11:10:05 +0100, Mike <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
[color=darkred]
> Earthquakes I won't argue,...
> A genset rigged for vapor fuel will run on
> propane or natural gas. NG set only needs a low pressure feed from
> a BBQ or RV regulator and a minor mixture adjustment to run on LPG.
>
> zero
having done a bit of tri-fuel work dialing in a propane unit, I wonder
how "easy" it really is to make those minor adjustments for NG.
I'd hate to do it at 40 below.
Or in a rain storm...
Even so, the tri-fuel with NG primary and stored propane is probably
the best option for most folk.
| |
| David Williams 2007-07-10, 3:25 am |
| -> I don't suppose it's any more silly than a 'Brit' not realising that
-> the word 'petrol' is actually a contraction of the word 'petroleum'
-> (which is the british name for what the americans call 'gasoline'
:-).
Actually, "petroleum" is a more general word, meaning any kind of
mineral oil, or even fairly solid materials. Products such as Vaseline
are generically called "petroleum jelly".
The contraction to "petrol" has also come to mean a contraction in
generality, so that it means only the stuff that Yanks call "gasoline".
dow
| |
| Vaughn Simon 2007-07-10, 9:25 am |
|
"philkryder" <alt.google@Kryder.com> wrote in message
news:1184045874.736705.101380@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> having done a bit of tri-fuel work dialing in a propane unit, I wonder
> how "easy" it really is to make those minor adjustments for NG.
It is as easy as taking 1/4 turn on a big knob at the fuel input to my
carburetor. I can actually set it up so that it runs well on either fuel
without adjustment, but that might waste fuel. I run it as lean as possible
consistant with good operation at all load levels. To switch fuels, I just turn
off one fuel valve & turn on the other, and then make the mixture adjustment.
>
> I'd hate to do it at 40 below.
> Or in a rain storm...
Well I don't have to worry about 40 below. After a hurricane, it usually
stops raining pretty fast. Anyhow, I have a raincoat.
>
> Even so, the tri-fuel with NG primary and stored propane is probably
> the best option for most folk.
The more ways you have to fuel your generator, the better. Fuel is scarce
after a disaster. The nice thing about stored propane is that you don't have to
worry about spoilage.
Vaughn
>
>
>
>
>
>
| |
| Peter@quadrad.eu 2007-07-10, 9:25 am |
| On Jul 7, 12:50 am, #davidb1...@sbcglobal.net (DavidB) wrote:
> I am searching for a natural gas 14+ KW generator on wheels for
> back-up power to my house. Does anyone know where I can find one or if
> one is even available?
mmmm. 14 kW is a bit too much for me? I am thinking though about a
stationary engine/generator about 4 kW, of course to be made by my
self...
Has anyone suggestions or experience?
Peter van der Wal
Netherlands
| |
| (PeteCresswell) 2007-07-10, 9:25 am |
| Per philkryder:
>Even so, the tri-fuel with NG primary and stored propane is probably
>the best option for most folk.
Does anybody have experience with making an EU2000 into a
tri-fuel device? I'm thinking NG or propane just as CYA backup,
not as the primary intended fuel.
--
PeteCresswell
| |
| Neon John 2007-07-10, 5:25 pm |
| On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 04:30:42 -0700, "Peter@quadrad.eu" <Peter@quadrad.eu> wrote:
>On Jul 7, 12:50 am, #davidb1...@sbcglobal.net (DavidB) wrote:
>
>mmmm. 14 kW is a bit too much for me? I am thinking though about a
>stationary engine/generator about 4 kW, of course to be made by my
>self...
>
>Has anyone suggestions or experience?
I can run my all-electric cabin on 7kw including the heat pump and electric water
heater. I can run everything except the heat pump on 5.
I'm not one of those who hunker down by candle light when the power goes off. I
crank the genny and life normally, including all the normal comforts.
I have a little 1kw genny that sits on the front porch and is used to run just the
lights and computer during short power outages (less than an hour). After an hour,
the big rig gets cranked.
John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Daddy, why doesn't this magnet pick up this floppy?
| |
| Vaughn Simon 2007-07-10, 8:25 pm |
|
"(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.Invalid> wrote in message
news:6ov693l9b9bmuj4163o1mfp8ldncleeo5d@4ax.com...
> Per philkryder:
>
> Does anybody have experience with making an EU2000 into a
> tri-fuel device? I'm thinking NG or propane just as CYA backup,
> not as the primary intended fuel.
A kit is available for propane, but the information is vague.
http://www.propane-generators.com/i...00-Cylinder.JPG
Actually, we keep an EU 2000 as our ultimate backup. I haven't bothered to
convert it in any way, but its fuel consumption is frugal enough to stretch our
small store of gasoline for several days. (We keep an emergency store of
gasoline primarily to ensure that we have fuel to evacute if we choose)
I did some tests on the smallest Yamaha (1 KW) inverter genny a while back.
If you could be satisfied with running a moderate sized 'fridge and perhaps a
few other small loads, that generator is amazingly frugal. Running
intermittantly and rationing carefully, one could get along on a gallon a day.
Vaughn
| |
|
| On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 22:37:54 -0700, philkryder <alt.google@Kryder.com>
wrote:
>having done a bit of tri-fuel work dialing in a propane unit, I wonder
>how "easy" it really is to make those minor adjustments for NG.
>
I've done it several times on my generator. For natural gas, I pull
the load block adjustment screw and locknut, set the nut 1/4'" back
from the tip, and screw it back in. For propane, I start it up as for
NG, (running rich), then screw in the screw until the engine falters,
then back out 1/2 turn. ymmv
>I'd hate to do it at 40 below.
Boy howdy! (I've been watching Ice Road Truckers)
I've worked outside, up phone poles, at -20F. Woof. If my power is
off, and furnace won't run, motivation is high at low temperature.
>Or in a rain storm...
Rope between two trees, tarp over rope. The plants needed water
anyways. Now my hair is clean as a bonus.
>
>Even so, the tri-fuel with NG primary and stored propane is probably
>the best option for most folk.
>
>
Agreed.
Be prepared, (and do a good deed daily)
zero
| |
| GreenPower 2007-07-11, 7:49 am |
| quote:
Originally posted by Vaughn Simon
[B]
......
A kit is available for propane, but the information is vague.
http://www.propane-generators.com/i...00-Cylinder.JPG
Actually there is a list of engine compatibility here http://www.propane-generators.com/a-c_kit_list.htm. The EU2000 engine has "A" kit only i.e. you need to drill the carburator . I found that it was really easy for my Robin engine. I didn't buy the whole kit, just the "zero governor" and make a small hose into the carburator intake (puch a small hole on the plastic cover of the air filter). That's about it and actually it's tri-fuel. | |
| philkryder 2007-07-12, 3:25 am |
|
> It is as easy as taking 1/4 turn on a big knob at the fuel input to my
> carburetor. I can actually set it up so that it runs well on either fuel
> without adjustment, but that might waste fuel. I run it as lean as possible
> consistant with good operation at all load levels. To switch fuels, I just turn
> off one fuel valve & turn on the other, and then make the mixture adjustment.
>
>
Vaughn -
What brand and model is your regulator?
| |
|
| I live in hurricane alley, been through many since the 40's, and even
Camille and Katrina, and NEVER had natural gas go down.
Lost everything else, but never NG.
On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 11:10:05 +0100, Mike <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 21:47:55 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.Invalid>
>wrote:
>
>
>.....and after natural disasters such as hurricanes and earthquakes
>the natural gas pipelines frequently fail, water ingress meaning the
>gas supply fails for many weeks.
>
>Anyway unless you are in a remote location any property with lights
>after such an event is a target for low-life. Just make sure you have
>a bigger gun than any would be looters.
>
>P.S. Haven't Americans realised how ridiculously stupid it is calling
>petrol, gasoline; and then shortening it to gas?
| |
| Vaughn Simon 2007-07-12, 1:25 pm |
|
"philkryder" <alt.google@Kryder.com> wrote in message
news:1184208006.686937.79560@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> Vaughn -
> What brand and model is your regulator?
I think that It is that standard one that all of the old Onan's use, but
unfortunately I can't read the numbers in it. I don't adjust the regulator for
different fuels. I adjust the mixture screw on the block where the gas goes
into the carb. Other than testing input and output pressures on initial
installation, I have never had to touch my regulator.
Vaughn
>
| |
| philkryder 2007-07-12, 9:25 pm |
| On Jul 12, 3:10 am, "Vaughn Simon" <vaughnsimonHATESS...@att.FAKE.net>
wrote:
> "philkryder" <alt.goo...@Kryder.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1184208006.686937.79560@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
> I think that It is that standard one that all of the old Onan's use, but
> unfortunately I can't read the numbers in it. I don't adjust the regulator for
> different fuels. I adjust the mixture screw on the block where the gas goes
> into the carb. Other than testing input and output pressures on initial
> installation, I have never had to touch my regulator.
>
> Vaughn
>
>
Is this a TRI-FUEL or only gaseous (NG/PROPANE)?
| |
| Vaughn Simon 2007-07-13, 9:25 am |
|
"philkryder" <alt.google@Kryder.com> wrote in message
news:1184292413.271558.275990@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> Is this a TRI-FUEL or only gaseous (NG/PROPANE)?
In my case, only gaseous. I would like to have tri-fuel, but this
particular generator was born from the factory with the gaseous-only carburetor
and changing it at this point would be expen$ive.
Vaughn
>
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