Alternative Power sources - Lifestyle vs system design

Author

Lifestyle vs system design

bealiba@gmail.com

2007-08-22, 3:25 am

You only have to read these groups for a short while to come the the
realisation that many people build systems that dictate the lifestyle
they will lead.

Of course the real aim of system design is to facilitate ones chosen
lifestyle.

So how is it that system design becomes the controlling factor in a
persons lifestyle.

This occurrence comes about, for the most part, through ignorance.
Okay so we have;

Lifestyle - noun: A manner of living that reflects the person's values
and attitudes

and

Ignorance - noun: The lack of knowledge or education.

For some, these two words, are interchangeable.

So, you aspire to a particular lifestyle. This is usually described as
"I just want what my neighbour has".

Sad isn't it. Basing your entire lifestyle on having what? Your
neighbours fat assed wife, three porky kids and dog that shits on
anything that sits still for five minutes.

But there are those that have a vision of a better life, a life where
they are no longer slaves to the "Norm" as dictated by rampant
consumerism.

For these people there is more to life. But, ignorance born of TV and
reinforced by people who become experts by watching TV and posting in
groups like these can seriously mislead.

The only way to overcome such ignorance is to learn what you are
doing. The best way to learn what you are doing is to do the design
work for yourself.

So if you are serious about using solar power for your home you need
to apply yourself to understanding what is involved in real system
design. You need to be able to define the lifestyle you want and then
design the system required to support that lifestyle.

When you learn how to design from the energy audit up, through the
system sizing you will be able to correctly size and build a system to
match your chosen lifestyle.

You will also be able to apply this to any system design offered in
groups like these. Once you are able to run the numbers you will soon
spot those that are talking with no understanding of the subject.

When someone says it is "normal" to have this, or "normal" to do
something in a certain way what they are really saying is follow the
average.

To follow this advice is to build your lifestyle around the "average".
This means your house will be "average", your car will be "average".
You will have an average life.

The people who advocate this lifestyle are the ones who, pack the rats
first when they "escape" the rat race.

Learn the proper design formula and you will be able to test the
advice you are given.

Now I can send you a spread sheet that will produce a correct system
sizing as long as you use the correct numbers for your needs.

But as you know there are several people in these groups that would
have you believe that I am lying about system design, so, this is my
advice;

Go to <http://www.green-trust.org/> and download the system sizing
spread sheet there. I'm sorry, but it is a real pig of a spread sheet
to use, still it is pretty much the correct formula for the job. After
all, Steve has gone to great lengths to make me out as giving bad
advice and tell you that my spread sheet is no good while at the same
time offers what is the same formula on his site.

As a nice little test to get you started you can apply this SS to the
off grid cabin design offered on the same site. See if it balances.
Hell, see if you can find the numbers.

Then go wild, check everybody's claims, and that includes mine. If
there are no numbers, no problem, just ask the person for them.
Anybody who is above board should be happy to divulge the information.

If the person can't or won't supply the numbers then there is probably
no design involved in their claims and you will have eliminated that
source of information as being unreliable.

All this costs you nothing and has the potential to save you thousands
of dollars.

Or you can just take the word of a person who may or may not know what
they are really talking about.

It's your lifestyle and your money. Given this, why would you spend a
packet of your money to follow advice that will only get you someone
else's lifestyle. I'm not selling anything, so I don't make a zak out
of this. I don't want you to live my lifestyle. Your lifestyle is up
to you. Can you face up to the responsibility for your own life?

Mike

2007-08-22, 9:25 am

<bealiba@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1187761877.918223.115920@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> SNIP <
>
> The only way to overcome such ignorance is to learn what you are
> doing. The best way to learn what you are doing is to do the design
> work for yourself.

> SNIP <
> Now I can send you a spread sheet that will produce a correct system
> sizing as long as you use the correct numbers for your needs.
>

Well if I use your SS then I'm not learning for myself am I.

> Go to <http://www.green-trust.org/> and download the system sizing
> spread sheet there. I'm sorry, but it is a real pig of a spread sheet
> to use, still it is pretty much the correct formula for the job.

And again, how do I know that their SS is worth a shit?

I'd take your word on it but you aren't even consistent in your logic.

bealiba@gmail.com

2007-08-22, 9:25 am

On Aug 22, 11:19 pm, "Mike" <MAStepel...@SBCGlobal.net> wrote:
> <beal...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1187761877.918223.115920@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> Well if I use your SS then I'm not learning for myself am I.

Ah, You see you have learned something already. The SS is just a
formula.
You would need to learn to use it correctly. When you learn to use it
you will have learned the relationship between each aspect of system
sizing. Then you will have to learn about the equipment required to
supply that sizing.

You will also learn the difference between a shopping list and system
design.

You will also learn what people are actually saying when they make
claims about their system.
>
>
> And again, how do I know that their SS is worth a shit?

Well, it is basically the correct formula, but as I said it is a pig
of a thing to use when it could have fit on a single page.

The fortune of the man who sits, also sits
>
> I'd take your word on it but you aren't even consistent in your logic.

I'm not asking you to take my word for anything. I have in fact asked
that you question even my numbers. They can be found in the thread
"Off Grid Cabin"
If you feel that you need further information you have only to ask and
I would be glad to try and supply it.

You shouldn't be afraid to try new things. And it, of course, would
cost you nothing to find out.

The thing about numbers is that you can lie about the numbers, but the
numbers will not lie.

If someone tries to feed you bullshit numbers it will show up in the
formula as bullshit.

wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net

2007-08-22, 1:25 pm

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 05:51:17 -0000, bealiba@gmail.com wrote:

>You only have to read these groups for a short while to come the the
>realisation that many people build systems that dictate the lifestyle
>they will lead.

Yup. Such as making a solar setup so small that one needs to start a
generator for every load over a few hundred Watts.

>Of course the real aim of system design is to facilitate ones chosen
>lifestyle.
>
>So how is it that system design becomes the controlling factor in a
>persons lifestyle.
>
>This occurrence comes about, for the most part, through ignorance.

Boy howdy.

>Okay so we have;
>
>Lifestyle - noun: A manner of living that reflects the person's values
>and attitudes
>
>and
>
>Ignorance - noun: The lack of knowledge or education.
>
>For some, these two words, are interchangeable.

There's no shortage of folks with diplomas who refuse to learn. Check
out this guy http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/tbfduwisdumb.htm who makes
the same mistakes year after year. Apparently he believes that it's
possible for one to exhibit endless ignorance *and* convince readers
that he's truly wise.

>So, you aspire to a particular lifestyle. This is usually described as
>"I just want what my neighbour has".

Most people just want what they want. In terms of these newsgroups,
that usually means the ability to live normally, ie plug in a toaster
as opposed to writing ridiculous excuses about why an electric toaster
is an unnecessary evil.

>Sad isn't it. Basing your entire lifestyle on having what? Your
>neighbours fat assed wife, three porky kids and dog that shits on
>anything that sits still for five minutes.

Unless you can provide some quotes to prove that somebody here covets
their neighbor's fat-assed wife, then most of us are going to assume
that it's something *you've* been spending too much time thinking
about.

>But there are those that have a vision of a better life, a life where
>they are no longer slaves to the "Norm" as dictated by rampant
>consumerism.

Sure. But at least one of those visionaries <chuckle> likes to pretend
that budgetary compromises were made by choice rather than necessity,
ie needing to start a generator to wash his laundry.

>For these people there is more to life.

Let me guess.... composing absurd Usenet posts that invite ridicule?

> But, ignorance born of TV and
>reinforced by people who become experts by watching TV and posting in
>groups like these can seriously mislead.

Let's take this guy for example http://www.lowexpecations.com/. Where
is the evidence that his ignorance is rooted in TV watching?

>The only way to overcome such ignorance is to learn what you are
>doing. The best way to learn what you are doing is to do the design
>work for yourself.
>
>So if you are serious about using solar power for your home you need
>to apply yourself to understanding what is involved in real system
>design. You need to be able to define the lifestyle you want and then
>design the system required to support that lifestyle.
>
>When you learn how to design from the energy audit up, through the
>system sizing you will be able to correctly size and build a system to
>match your chosen lifestyle.
>
>You will also be able to apply this to any system design offered in
>groups like these.

No, you generally will not. For example, we sometimes see questions
about large grid-tied setups. Yet the answers come from those with
direct knowledge, not from the one idiot who believes that his narrow
and faulty experience with small setups gave him the wisdom to comment
on everything from candles to astrophysics.

> Once you are able to run the numbers you will soon
>spot those that are talking with no understanding of the subject.

You might try learning more and judging less. Since you won't agree,
please render a judgment on the author of this statement - "Power is
is the time rate of using energy. So energy = 400 watts. Power = 400
watt hours"
http://groups.google.com/group/alt....77def7e020211d1

The ritar, who claims to have training and decades of experience,
actually believed he was correcting somebody. Do you suppose his
problems come from watching too much TV, or from coveting his
neighbor's wife?

>When someone says it is "normal" to have this, or "normal" to do
>something in a certain way what they are really saying is follow the
>average.
>
>To follow this advice is to build your lifestyle around the "average".
>This means your house will be "average", your car will be "average".
>You will have an average life.

Yes, pity the poor souls who aspire to "average". What kind of greedy
bastard would insist on having say, a flush toilet? Life would be so
much better without such "average" contrivances, eh ghinius? Or might
we be smarter to assume that your definition of "average" is actually
"anything you can't afford"?

>The people who advocate this lifestyle are the ones who, pack the rats
>first when they "escape" the rat race.
>
>Learn the proper design formula and you will be able to test the
>advice you are given.
>
>Now I can send you a spread sheet that will produce a correct system
>sizing as long as you use the correct numbers for your needs.
>
>But as you know there are several people in these groups that would
>have you believe that I am lying about system design

No, people believe that you exaggerate your experience, that you're
painfully ignorant about a whole range of subjects, and that you lie
to cover up your mistakes.

>, so, this is my
>advice;
>
>Go to <http://www.green-trust.org/> and download the system sizing
>spread sheet there. I'm sorry, but it is a real pig of a spread sheet
>to use, still it is pretty much the correct formula for the job. After
>all, Steve has gone to great lengths to make me out as giving bad
>advice and tell you that my spread sheet is no good while at the same
>time offers what is the same formula on his site.
>
>As a nice little test to get you started you can apply this SS to the
>off grid cabin design offered on the same site. See if it balances.
>Hell, see if you can find the numbers.
>
>Then go wild, check everybody's claims, and that includes mine.

OK! Let's start here - you claimed that you can take a battery from
some low state of charge to full in 3 hours at C/28 rate. The
"average, normal" poster here would say that's impossible. So please
tell us (in plain English!) what the starting and ending SOC was. For
example, 30 and 40%, or 90 and 100%.

> If
>there are no numbers, no problem, just ask the person for them.
>Anybody who is above board should be happy to divulge the information.

And yet I'm guessing <snorf> that you'll refuse to provide the two
simple numbers I just asked for.
>
>If the person can't or won't supply the numbers then there is probably
>no design involved in their claims and you will have eliminated that
>source of information as being unreliable.

Exactly. Unless the numbers are missing from a nitwit "power
consultant" story, in which case we should believe that we're too
blind to comprehend the vastness of his wisdom?
>
>All this costs you nothing and has the potential to save you thousands
>of dollars.
>
>Or you can just take the word of a person who may or may not know what
>they are really talking about.
>
>It's your lifestyle and your money. Given this, why would you spend a
>packet of your money to follow advice that will only get you someone
>else's lifestyle. I'm not selling anything, so I don't make a zak out
>of this.

! And yet, entirely unsolicited, you did exactly that. I believe it's
called Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.

> I don't want you to live my lifestyle. Your lifestyle is up
>to you.

If our lifestyles are up to us, then why do you keep trying to invent
fault with them?

> Can you face up to the responsibility for your own life?

Sure. Can you face up to the fact that your posts are a joke?

Wayne

wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net

2007-08-22, 1:25 pm

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:19:42 -0500, "Mike" <MAStepelton@SBCGlobal.net>
wrote:

>
><bealiba@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1187761877.918223.115920@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>Well if I use your SS then I'm not learning for myself am I.

Depends. If you already understand the underlying logic, or don't care
to learn it, then a spreadsheet can save time. The downside is that it
invites GIGO, as George himself has demonstrated here so many times.
Why he thinks anyone might want a spreadsheet from the guy who holds
the record for posting the most blunders, is the great unanswered
question. See http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/tbfduwisdumb.htm

>
> And again, how do I know that their SS is worth a shit?

It's pretty typical, and perfectly safe to use.

>I'd take your word on it but you aren't even consistent in your logic.

You're too kind. :-)

Wayne

Solar Flare

2007-08-22, 1:25 pm

You would think on a solar newsgroup this idiot could at least try to
stay away from the personal slams for, at least, one post.

<wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net> wrote in message
news:bmkoc3hmvv9d3t5ojfej4mkc33mkchrtm9@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:19:42 -0500, "Mike"
> <MAStepelton@SBCGlobal.net>
> wrote:
> Depends. If you already understand the underlying logic, or don't
> care
> to learn it, then a spreadsheet can save time. The downside is that
> it
> invites GIGO, as George himself has demonstrated here so many times.
> Why he thinks anyone might want a spreadsheet from the guy who holds
> the record for posting the most blunders, is the great unanswered
> question. See http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/tbfduwisdumb.htm
>
>
> It's pretty typical, and perfectly safe to use.
>
>
> You're too kind. :-)
>
> Wayne

Solar Flare

2007-08-22, 1:25 pm

You would think on a solar newsgroup this idiot could at least try to
stay away from the personal slams for, at least, one post.

<wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net> wrote in message
news:hrjoc31cn2sv74vah2djbvjn3c4k38lbsl@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 05:51:17 -0000, bealiba@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> Yup. Such as making a solar setup so small that one needs to start a
> generator for every load over a few hundred Watts.
>
>
> Boy howdy.
>
>
> There's no shortage of folks with diplomas who refuse to learn.
> Check
> out this guy http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/tbfduwisdumb.htm who
> makes
> the same mistakes year after year. Apparently he believes that it's
> possible for one to exhibit endless ignorance *and* convince readers
> that he's truly wise.
>
>
> Most people just want what they want. In terms of these newsgroups,
> that usually means the ability to live normally, ie plug in a
> toaster
> as opposed to writing ridiculous excuses about why an electric
> toaster
> is an unnecessary evil.
>
>
> Unless you can provide some quotes to prove that somebody here
> covets
> their neighbor's fat-assed wife, then most of us are going to assume
> that it's something *you've* been spending too much time thinking
> about.
>
>
> Sure. But at least one of those visionaries <chuckle> likes to
> pretend
> that budgetary compromises were made by choice rather than
> necessity,
> ie needing to start a generator to wash his laundry.
>
>
> Let me guess.... composing absurd Usenet posts that invite ridicule?
>
>
> Let's take this guy for example http://www.lowexpecations.com/.
> Where
> is the evidence that his ignorance is rooted in TV watching?
>
>
> No, you generally will not. For example, we sometimes see questions
> about large grid-tied setups. Yet the answers come from those with
> direct knowledge, not from the one idiot who believes that his
> narrow
> and faulty experience with small setups gave him the wisdom to
> comment
> on everything from candles to astrophysics.
>
>
> You might try learning more and judging less. Since you won't agree,
> please render a judgment on the author of this statement - "Power is
> is the time rate of using energy. So energy = 400 watts. Power = 400
> watt hours"
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt....77def7e020211d1
>
> The ritar, who claims to have training and decades of experience,
> actually believed he was correcting somebody. Do you suppose his
> problems come from watching too much TV, or from coveting his
> neighbor's wife?
>
>
> Yes, pity the poor souls who aspire to "average". What kind of
> greedy
> bastard would insist on having say, a flush toilet? Life would be so
> much better without such "average" contrivances, eh ghinius? Or
> might
> we be smarter to assume that your definition of "average" is
> actually
> "anything you can't afford"?
>
>
> No, people believe that you exaggerate your experience, that you're
> painfully ignorant about a whole range of subjects, and that you lie
> to cover up your mistakes.
>
>
> OK! Let's start here - you claimed that you can take a battery from
> some low state of charge to full in 3 hours at C/28 rate. The
> "average, normal" poster here would say that's impossible. So please
> tell us (in plain English!) what the starting and ending SOC was.
> For
> example, 30 and 40%, or 90 and 100%.
>
>
> And yet I'm guessing <snorf> that you'll refuse to provide the two
> simple numbers I just asked for.
>
> Exactly. Unless the numbers are missing from a nitwit "power
> consultant" story, in which case we should believe that we're too
> blind to comprehend the vastness of his wisdom?
>
> ! And yet, entirely unsolicited, you did exactly that. I believe
> it's
> called Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.
>
>
> If our lifestyles are up to us, then why do you keep trying to
> invent
> fault with them?
>
>
> Sure. Can you face up to the fact that your posts are a joke?
>
> Wayne

Steve Spence

2007-08-22, 5:25 pm

<wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net> wrote in message
news:hrjoc31cn2sv74vah2djbvjn3c4k38lbsl@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 05:51:17 -0000, bealiba@gmail.com wrote:
>

>

Wayne, Did george actually claim I said his spreadsheet was bad? I've never
seen his spreadsheet. And now he's actually claiming my formula is correct,
after all those years of saying it was wrong? wow ....

--
Steve Spence
Director, Green-Trust
http://www.green-trust.org
http://www.green-trust.org/bookshop/

Steve Spence

2007-08-22, 5:25 pm

"Mike" <MAStepelton@SBCGlobal.net> wrote in message
news:MJWyi.4072$Oo.2948@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...
>
> <bealiba@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1187761877.918223.115920@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Well if I use your SS then I'm not learning for myself am I.
>
>
>
>
> And again, how do I know that their SS is worth a shit?
>
> I'd take your word on it but you aren't even consistent in your logic.
>
>

It's stood the test of time, and experience. Other professionals have tested
it as well. Don't use it if you don't trust it. Use your own numbers, and
compare against it. I don't care if you use the tools I offer. I put them
there for folks who want help, not folks who are trying to prove they are
better than everyone else.

--
Steve Spence
Director, Green-Trust
http://www.green-trust.org
http://www.green-trust.org/bookshop/

bealiba@gmail.com

2007-08-22, 8:25 pm

On Aug 23, 6:44 am, "Steve Spence" <sspe...@green-trust.org> wrote:
> <wmbjkREM...@citlink.net> wrote in message
>
> news:hrjoc31cn2sv74vah2djbvjn3c4k38lbsl@4ax.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Wayne, Did george actually claim I said his spreadsheet was bad? I've never
> seen his spreadsheet. And now he's actually claiming my formula is correct,
> after all those years of saying it was wrong? wow ....
>
> --
> Steve Spence
> Director, Green-Trusthttp://www.green-trust.orghttp://www.green-trust.org/bookshop/

Hi Steve. I in fact said that your spreadsheet is incorrect. The Temp
correction numbers are out. The spreadsheet is a dogs breakfast to
use. It take up far more space than required. It still gives an answer
that is close enough.

bealiba@gmail.com

2007-08-22, 8:25 pm

On Aug 23, 1:12 am, wmbjkREM...@citlink.net wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 05:51:17 -0000, beal...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Yup. Such as making a solar setup so small that one needs to start a
> generator for every load over a few hundred Watts.
>
>
>
>
> Boy howdy.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> There's no shortage of folks with diplomas who refuse to learn. Check
> out this guyhttp://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/tbfduwisdumb.htmwho makes
> the same mistakes year after year. Apparently he believes that it's
> possible for one to exhibit endless ignorance *and* convince readers
> that he's truly wise.
>
>
> Most people just want what they want. In terms of these newsgroups,
> that usually means the ability to live normally, ie plug in a toaster
> as opposed to writing ridiculous excuses about why an electric toaster
> is an unnecessary evil.
>
>
> Unless you can provide some quotes to prove that somebody here covets
> their neighbor's fat-assed wife, then most of us are going to assume
> that it's something *you've* been spending too much time thinking
> about.
>
>
> Sure. But at least one of those visionaries <chuckle> likes to pretend
> that budgetary compromises were made by choice rather than necessity,
> ie needing to start a generator to wash his laundry.
>
>
> Let me guess.... composing absurd Usenet posts that invite ridicule?
>
>
> Let's take this guy for examplehttp://www.lowexpecations.com/. Where
> is the evidence that his ignorance is rooted in TV watching?
>
>
>
>
>
> No, you generally will not. For example, we sometimes see questions
> about large grid-tied setups. Yet the answers come from those with
> direct knowledge, not from the one idiot who believes that his narrow
> and faulty experience with small setups gave him the wisdom to comment
> on everything from candles to astrophysics.
>
>
> You might try learning more and judging less. Since you won't agree,
> please render a judgment on the author of this statement - "Power is
> is the time rate of using energy. So energy = 400 watts. Power = 400
> watt hours"http://groups.google.com/group/alt.solar.photovoltaic/msg/377def7e020...
>
> The ritar, who claims to have training and decades of experience,
> actually believed he was correcting somebody. Do you suppose his
> problems come from watching too much TV, or from coveting his
> neighbor's wife?
>
>
>
> Yes, pity the poor souls who aspire to "average". What kind of greedy
> bastard would insist on having say, a flush toilet? Life would be so
> much better without such "average" contrivances, eh ghinius? Or might
> we be smarter to assume that your definition of "average" is actually
> "anything you can't afford"?
>
>
>
>
>
> No, people believe that you exaggerate your experience, that you're
> painfully ignorant about a whole range of subjects, and that you lie
> to cover up your mistakes.
>
>
>
>
>
> OK! Let's start here - you claimed that you can take a battery from
> some low state of charge to full in 3 hours at C/28 rate. The
> "average, normal" poster here would say that's impossible. So please
> tell us (in plain English!) what the starting and ending SOC was. For
> example, 30 and 40%, or 90 and 100%.
>
>
> And yet I'm guessing <snorf> that you'll refuse to provide the two
> simple numbers I just asked for.
>
>
>
>
> Exactly. Unless the numbers are missing from a nitwit "power
> consultant" story, in which case we should believe that we're too
> blind to comprehend the vastness of his wisdom?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ! And yet, entirely unsolicited, you did exactly that. I believe it's
> called Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.
>
>
> If our lifestyles are up to us, then why do you keep trying to invent
> fault with them?
>
>
> Sure. Can you face up to the fact that your posts are a joke?
>
> Wayne

Here we have the perfect example of system design controlling
lifestyle.
Wayne's system design is such that he can only run what he wants while
the sun is out.

It requires the panels output and the batteries capacity to work
during the day.

This is because he runs directly off his panels with the batteries
supplying the surges that the panels can not meet.

Neither the panels nor the batteries produce enough to run his loads
on their own.

By his own admission, the only way he can achieve two days autonomy is
to reduce his load.

Using a good spreadsheet, or indeed some simple maths it is easy to
work out that thi reduction is close to 33%

At night he watches re-runs on the TV.

That he is willing to live this way is not a problem.

The problem is he did not design his system. He has no idea what his
loads really are.

wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net

2007-08-22, 8:25 pm

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 22:53:11 -0000, bealiba@gmail.com wrote:
[color=darkred]
>On Aug 23, 1:12 am, wmbjkREM...@citlink.net wrote:
[color=darkred]

So after inviting us to check your claims and ask for any missing
numbers, and declaring that "anybody who is above board should be
happy to divulge the information", you failed to provide 2 very simple
numbers. Exactly as I predicted! Just a lucky guess, eh ghinius? Since
you're obviously *not* happy to divulge the information, by your own
implication we should conclude that *you're* not "above board". Do you
suppose that not being above board might be a large part of the reason
that there are web sites ridiculing you?

http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/tbfduwisdumb.htm
http://www.lowexpecations.com/

Wayne

wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net

2007-08-22, 8:25 pm

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 16:44:31 -0400, "Steve Spence"
<sspence@green-trust.org> wrote:

>
>
><wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net> wrote in message
>news:hrjoc31cn2sv74vah2djbvjn3c4k38lbsl@4ax.com...
>
>
>Wayne, Did george actually claim I said his spreadsheet was bad?

Not that I remember. But *I* said it wasn't very good. As I recall, it
used daily numbers where a week's average would be better, and worst
case where actual would be better. It also had built-in math errors
because the nitwit doesn't understand some basic concepts. And the
proof is in the pudding - George himself has blamed that spreadsheet
for some of the GIGO he's posted here. I think the reason he only
makes it available by email is the same reason he never allowed his
"book" to be reviewed - because he thinks that limited viewing will
lessen the opportunity for criticism. The strategy doesn't seem to be
working very well, these two sites seem to expand every time he
attacks someone.
http://www.lowexpecations.com/
http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/tbfduwisdumb.htm

Having gazed at my emai... er, crystal ball, I predict that Bill B.
will be here shortly to tell us he's made another update. :-)

> I've never
>seen his spreadsheet. And now he's actually claiming my formula is correct,
>after all those years of saying it was wrong? wow ....

I don't see why you're surprised, he can't even keep track of his
claims about his *own* place. Not that he'll admit to any dissembling.
For example, according to him, 20 liters of fuel per fortnight and 20
liters per week are somehow *both* correct!

Wayne

Bill B.

2007-08-22, 8:25 pm

> Using a good spreadsheet, or indeed some simple maths it is easy to
> work out that thi reduction is close to 33%
>
> The problem is he did not design his system. He has no idea what his
> loads really are.

It occurs to me that after just a few hours, this entire messertation*
has detonated into a hailstorm of insults that simply boggle the mind
of the casual lurker desiring to learn more about alternative energy.
If I were just researching and trying to find information, I'd have to
think that we're all nuts. Well, it's true. There is emerging
research that suggests that the captured photons in a solar power
array do indeed cause some changes in the human brain that increase
stress in some people and actually causes others to forget their
writing skills. That's why I wear the aluminum foil hat.

Me, I'll stick to simple maths and a few thi and let the loads fight
amongst themselves for domination.

Bill B.

*messertation:
A type of long Usenet post originally intended to be a dissertation by
the author. May be designed to keep a stagnant newsgroup alive,
however care should be taken to avoid inimical statements when using
this platform. Also may attract replies from people named "Mike".

Anthony Matonak

2007-08-22, 9:25 pm

Bill B. wrote:
> It occurs to me that after just a few hours, this entire messertation*
> has detonated into a hailstorm of insults that simply boggle the mind
> of the casual lurker desiring to learn more about alternative energy.

You will note that the original post was a troll and not sane to
start with. Most of the replies are from two posters, one who is
another troll and the other whose mission is to bait trolls.

If you simply killfile the two or three that contribute most
to the mess and least to any rational discourse, you will find
the entire thread disappears almost completely.

I agree that it's regrettable that people entertain themselves in
this manner at the detriment of the newsgroup but there is little
one can do about it.

Anthony

Bill B.

2007-08-22, 9:25 pm

On Aug 22, 9:32 pm, Anthony Matonak
<anthony...@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
> Bill B. wrote:
[color=darkred]
> I agree that it's regrettable that people entertain themselves in
> this manner at the detriment of the newsgroup but there is little
> one can do about it.
>
> Anthony

Anthony, I'm so sorry I gave you the wrong idea!

While I'm sure that most lurkers here for the first time will killfile
their I.D.s before they've ever seen any of their posts, we have to
assume a certain percentage will forget to do that, perhaps 99.5% but
not much more, I'm sure. I certainly wouldn't classify George as a
troll using the agreed upon definition of a troll:

"Newsgroup trolls are people who join a Usenet discussion group or
newsgroup with one goal: to provoke other newsgroup subscribers and to
cause a flame war. A flame war is basically a bad argument where
discussion becomes very heated, people get angry and verbal abuse is
often used. A newsgroup troll uses provocative and slanderous language
to provoke other newsgroup users."

The very definition assumes a knowledge of language which we know
George not to have. Also, George doesn't heap verbal abuse upon
people, only their learned knowledge and skills. George has never told
anyone that they are ugly or anything like that; just not as "gifted"
as he is. Thus it classifies as an amusement to pass the hours. Also,
George's single mission isn't to start flame wars, no indeed. It would
be a mistake to assume that. I shall address that aspect in the next
few days at the fan site dedicated to a George.

http://www.lowexpecations.com/

Bill B.

bealiba@gmail.com

2007-08-23, 9:25 am

On Aug 23, 11:47 am, "Bill B." <project.Majstic...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 22, 9:32 pm, Anthony Matonak
>
> <anthony...@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> Anthony, I'm so sorry I gave you the wrong idea!
>
> While I'm sure that most lurkers here for the first time will killfile
> their I.D.s before they've ever seen any of their posts, we have to
> assume a certain percentage will forget to do that, perhaps 99.5% but
> not much more, I'm sure. I certainly wouldn't classify George as a
> troll using the agreed upon definition of a troll:
>
> "Newsgroup trolls are people who join a Usenet discussion group or
> newsgroup with one goal: to provoke other newsgroup subscribers and to
> cause a flame war. A flame war is basically a bad argument where
> discussion becomes very heated, people get angry and verbal abuse is
> often used. A newsgroup troll uses provocative and slanderous language
> to provoke other newsgroup users."
>
> The very definition assumes a knowledge of language which we know
> George not to have. Also, George doesn't heap verbal abuse upon
> people, only their learned knowledge and skills. George has never told
> anyone that they are ugly or anything like that; just not as "gifted"
> as he is. Thus it classifies as an amusement to pass the hours. Also,
> George's single mission isn't to start flame wars, no indeed. It would
> be a mistake to assume that. I shall address that aspect in the next
> few days at the fan site dedicated to a George.
>
> http://www.lowexpecations.com/
>
> Bill B.

Hate to bust you bubble, but, my post is correct.

Lifestyle should be supported by a system designed to the need of that
lifestyle.

Ones lifestyle should not be dictated by system design.

Wayne chose to argue the point with nonsense. Wayne built a system
that demands that he do everything he can during daylight hours.

I merely pointed this out. If you feel that this is an attack on
Wayne's "learned knowledge and skills" then that is an issue you will
have to take up with Wayne.

That's his lifestyle and he is welcome to it.

Others will have to determine their own lifestyles. That is as it
should be. And if they require or decide to use a solar power system
than they should do so by design. Not a guess as you seem to advocate
with "and let the loads fight amongst themselves for domination.

wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net

2007-08-23, 9:25 am

On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 01:19:42 -0000, "Bill B."
<project.Majstic.43@gmail.com> wrote:

>*messertation:
>A type of long Usenet post originally intended to be a dissertation by
>the author.

Yeah, that describes it pretty well. Somebody once compared George to
a kid who'd just discovered a hammer, which in turn caused everything
around him to look like a nail. Thing is, after a while a kid learns
new things, but ghinius that he is, George stalled at "oooh, I
discovered how to add up solar loads poorly". One would expect that
each Christmas or on his birthday he'd get something new to talk
about, but nooooo. It seems that messertations lead to a cycle of
unlikability ----> no presents ----> more messertations. What we need
to help poor old George break that cycle, are donations and
suggestions for an appropriate gift. I'm in for a buck, and recommend
that we get him a Dvorak version of this http://www.daskeyboard.com/.

Wayne

Solar Flare

2007-08-23, 1:25 pm

Classic definition of a troll and superjerk. read the website and see
what some people have in mind. Complete hatered of the whole world,
bully, and general piece of human scum.

You are a very poor troll and easy to pick out of the pond.

"Bill B." <project.Majstic.43@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1187833630.694104.44930@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> http://www.lowexpecations.com/
>
> Bill B.
>
>

Solar Flare

2007-08-23, 1:25 pm

When you start ignoring these trolls, they will be defeated.

Be a man, George, get some balls and stop making everybody hate your
posts.

<bealiba@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1187865486.685605.56080@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 23, 11:47 am, "Bill B." <project.Majstic...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hate to bust you bubble, but, my post is correct.
>
> Lifestyle should be supported by a system designed to the need of
> that
> lifestyle.
>
> Ones lifestyle should not be dictated by system design.
>
> Wayne chose to argue the point with nonsense. Wayne built a system
> that demands that he do everything he can during daylight hours.
>
> I merely pointed this out. If you feel that this is an attack on
> Wayne's "learned knowledge and skills" then that is an issue you
> will
> have to take up with Wayne.
>
> That's his lifestyle and he is welcome to it.
>
> Others will have to determine their own lifestyles. That is as it
> should be. And if they require or decide to use a solar power system
> than they should do so by design. Not a guess as you seem to
> advocate
> with "and let the loads fight amongst themselves for domination.
>
>

bealiba@gmail.com

2007-08-23, 5:25 pm

On Aug 24, 3:29 am, "Solar Flare" <solarfl...@hotmale.invalid> wrote:
> When you start ignoring these trolls, they will be defeated.
>
> Be a man, George, get some balls and stop making everybody hate your
> posts.
>
> <beal...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1187865486.685605.56080@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>
There is a simple and rational reason for the hate exhibited.

If people learn to use the correct formula for design then they will
be able to spot the bullshit posted by many of the so called experts.

This is not to be allowed, and will be fought against with more lies
and nonsense.

Three minutes with the correct sizing formula and several self
proclaimed experts are shown to be nothing more than armchair experts
with no real expertise at all.

LinkBot