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Home > Archive > Alternative Power sources > September 2007 > Ping Neon John
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| David Williams 2007-09-18, 9:25 pm |
| -> Hey John,
-> I've got a Panasonic microwave that popped the internal 18A fuse last
-> night; went troubleshooting this AM w/a new 20A fuse and the first thing I
-> noticed on this little jewel, rated 120V 12A, is that it is drawing
-> 1950-2000 watts per my KAW!
-> Any ideas other than saving a few parts and buying a new one?
-> jim
Could it be leaking microwaves that are messing up the KAW?
dow
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| Neon John 2007-09-19, 3:25 am |
| >-> Hey John,
>-> I've got a Panasonic microwave that popped the internal 18A fuse last
>-> night; went troubleshooting this AM w/a new 20A fuse and the first thing I
>-> noticed on this little jewel, rated 120V 12A, is that it is drawing
>-> 1950-2000 watts per my KAW!
>-> Any ideas other than saving a few parts and buying a new one?
>-> jim
My experience in fixing a BUNCH of microwaves is that the voltage doubler capacitor
is usually the first thing to blow, followed by the doubler diode. Yours sounds like
a bad cap. Is it making any heat?
Those caps are fairly expensive (~$25 range) but all microwaves use one of about 3
values so if you can find an old one to rob or maybe a used appliance store that has
one in the boneyard, you can fix it. Otherwise a new microwave is probably the
cheapest solution.
Save the goodies. You can do neat stuff like this:
http://www.neon-john.com/images/micronuke.jpg
That's me holding a neon-filled globe near the antenna of a 600 watt magnetron. The
camera doesn't do the brightness of that globe justice!
I've been wanting to build a sulfur lamp. This lamp uses a microwave oven magnetron
to drive a small quartz globe filled with argon and elemental sulfur. It is one of
the brightest and most efficient light sources going. I just need to source a quartz
globe of the proper diameter. I can fill and evacuate it here.
A bare magnetron makes an excellent hand warmer. That's what I use the one in the
photo for (after mounting it in a box with a fan). Just hold your hands out at arm's
length about 6-8" away.
The bare radiator is eye-safe at arm's length (yeah I have a microwave survey meter
and have measured) but one would need to be careful if any sort of reflector or other
wave guide were in the vicinity.
I have another little gadget that I've been playing with off and on for awhile. 4
magnetrons feeding a large feedhorn. A very effective tool to shut down loud
stereos..... :-) A microwave oven is a delightful electronic warfare tool :-)
John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
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| "David XXXXXXXX" <david.XXXXXXXX@bayman.org> wrote in message
news:1190169615.912.1190142580@bayman.org...
>-> Hey John,
> -> I've got a Panasonic microwave that popped the internal 18A fuse
> last
> -> night; went troubleshooting this AM w/a new 20A fuse and the first
> thing I
> -> noticed on this little jewel, rated 120V 12A, is that it is drawing
> -> 1950-2000 watts per my KAW!
> -> Any ideas other than saving a few parts and buying a new one?
> -> jim
>
> Could it be leaking microwaves that are messing up the KAW?
It rises pretty quickly from 700 to about 2000 watts (5 seconds) and
maintains that draw; plus the case was completely reassembled to shield
everything, and it =did= pop the 18A fuse. 20A is the =only= size the local
repair shop handles. The thing is rated to draw 1400 watts, you'd think an
extra 600 would be very noticeable somehow.....
This is the same MW I fixed several months ago by locating a snap
connector inside that had been pushed together but never properly locked in
place, so it had wiggled loose. I snapped it together properly and it has
worked perfectly since.
I'm stumped.
Jim
>
> dow
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"Neon John" <no@never.com> wrote in message
news:nk91f3dbd00pfef8tivlmc3dlt8k2cf5bj@4ax.com...
>
> My experience in fixing a BUNCH of microwaves is that the voltage doubler
> capacitor
> is usually the first thing to blow, followed by the doubler diode. Yours
> sounds like
> a bad cap. Is it making any heat?
I don't see anything immediately visible that looks like a big cap. The
unit gets warm =very= quickly at the point on the external case immediately
adjacent to the inverter ground, which is right next to the transformer
feeding the inverter. I ran it just now w/o the case on, and the trans. and
inverter both get hot =fast=. It's now pulling 2091 watts on the KAW which
is beeping like crazy. Hope I haven't fried it (the KAW) by running the
thing with the case off. :-) Sooooo, my guess is that running it for years
with that loose connector I popped back together awhile back cooked the
transformer. <sigh> There's nothing like Chinese slave labor to make your
day.
>
> Those caps are fairly expensive (~$25 range) but all microwaves use one of
> about 3
> values so if you can find an old one to rob or maybe a used appliance
> store that has
> one in the boneyard, you can fix it. Otherwise a new microwave is
> probably the
> cheapest solution.
That will be today's excursion into town!
>
> Save the goodies. You can do neat stuff like this:
>
> http://www.neon-john.com/images/micronuke.jpg
>
> That's me holding a neon-filled globe near the antenna of a 600 watt
> magnetron. The
> camera doesn't do the brightness of that globe justice!
Yes, I have surfed your site and seen many wonderful things. I wanted to
come visit you when I was passing through your area, but I was driving a
moving van. Made it to Maryville and gave up.
>
> I've been wanting to build a sulfur lamp. This lamp uses a microwave oven
> magnetron
> to drive a small quartz globe
Why quartz? What is the operating temp? Is borosilicate glass too soft?
filled with argon and elemental sulfur. It is one of
> the brightest and most efficient light sources going. I just need to
> source a quartz
> globe of the proper diameter. I can fill and evacuate it here.
What do you use for a vacuum pump? I had one ages ago, but it broke and
I never did anything with it. Too expensive in those days. How far down do
you suck it?
>
> A bare magnetron makes an excellent hand warmer. That's what I use the
> one in the
> photo for (after mounting it in a box with a fan). Just hold your hands
> out at arm's
> length about 6-8" away.
>
> The bare radiator is eye-safe at arm's length (yeah I have a microwave
> survey meter
> and have measured) but one would need to be careful if any sort of
> reflector or other
> wave guide were in the vicinity.
>
> I have another little gadget that I've been playing with off and on for
> awhile. 4
> magnetrons feeding a large feedhorn. A very effective tool to shut down
> loud
> stereos..... :-) A microwave oven is a delightful electronic warfare tool
> :-)
LOL!!!! If only my transformer and inverter weren't trashed, I'd keep
the goodies out of this one for, uh, projects.... If only my wife knew what
goes on in my shop....
Thanks Bubba!
>
> John
> --
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.neon-john.com
> http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
> Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
> I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
>
| |
| Bruce in Alaska 2007-09-19, 5:25 pm |
| In article <rA9Ii.27849$eY.5112@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>,
"Jim" <jim@home.con> wrote:
> "David XXXXXXXX" <david.XXXXXXXX@bayman.org> wrote in message
> news:1190169615.912.1190142580@bayman.org...
>
> It rises pretty quickly from 700 to about 2000 watts (5 seconds) and
> maintains that draw; plus the case was completely reassembled to shield
> everything, and it =did= pop the 18A fuse. 20A is the =only= size the local
> repair shop handles. The thing is rated to draw 1400 watts, you'd think an
> extra 600 would be very noticeable somehow.....
> This is the same MW I fixed several months ago by locating a snap
> connector inside that had been pushed together but never properly locked in
> place, so it had wiggled loose. I snapped it together properly and it has
> worked perfectly since.
> I'm stumped.
> Jim
>
>
Very Likely you have a very lossy Magnitron, that is Double Pulsing,
and MultiModing. This is a common Failure Mode in SBand Magnitrons
that are approching MaxTubeLife Hours.
Bruce in alaska
--
add a <2> before @
| |
| Neon John 2007-09-19, 8:25 pm |
| On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 18:45:11 GMT, Bruce in Alaska <bruceg@btpost.net> wrote:
>In article <rA9Ii.27849$eY.5112@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>,
> "Jim" <jim@home.con> wrote:
Most of the excess energy is dissipated as heat in the magnetron. Some in the
transformer. Operating it this way will greatly shorten the magentron's life.
[color=darkred]
Change that capacitor and things will be fine.
[color=darkred]
>Very Likely you have a very lossy Magnitron, that is Double Pulsing,
>and MultiModing. This is a common Failure Mode in SBand Magnitrons
>that are approching MaxTubeLife Hours.
Very very unlikely. The only microwave magentron that I've ever seen go bad
developed an open filament. It's the voltage doubling capacitor, almost surely.
John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
It isn't Global Warming.... It's Jerry Falwell arriving in hell.
| |
|
| "Bruce in Alaska" <bruceg@btpost.net> wrote in message
news:bruceg-78B041.10464219092007@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
> In article <rA9Ii.27849$eY.5112@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>,
> "Jim" <jim@home.con> wrote:
>
> Very Likely you have a very lossy Magnitron, that is Double Pulsing,
> and MultiModing. This is a common Failure Mode in SBand Magnitrons
> that are approching MaxTubeLife Hours.
So you do not believe it would be safe/useful to save the magnetron for
future experimentation as it is the root cause?
TIA, Jim
>
> Bruce in alaska
> --
> add a <2> before @
| |
|
| "Neon John" <no@never.com> wrote in message
news:13h3f3tvr2u4g9rmn3or2og1hn8vfp753m@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 18:45:11 GMT, Bruce in Alaska <bruceg@btpost.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Most of the excess energy is dissipated as heat in the magnetron. Some in
> the
> transformer. Operating it this way will greatly shorten the magentron's
> life.
>
>
> Change that capacitor and things will be fine.
>
>
> Very very unlikely. The only microwave magentron that I've ever seen go
> bad
> developed an open filament. It's the voltage doubling capacitor, almost
> surely.
I thank you both for your help. The question is now academic as I have
disassembled the unit completely, and irreparably. :-) The transformer
seems to be the source of the heat. And it was heating up very fast, just a
few seconds, and every time I tested it with the KAW it ran higher and
higher, up to 2091 watts! Not being any of the electrical engineers in my
family, I wasn't able to determine which cap was the voltage doubler, so I
bought a new one at WalMart. (Scrounged some pretty cool stuff out of it,
though.)
Wanna guess how much it was, courtesy of our ridiculous foreign trade
policies? $29.66.... Made by inscrutable little Chinese....
Jim
>
> John
> --
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.neon-john.com
> http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
> Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
> It isn't Global Warming.... It's Jerry Falwell arriving in hell.
>
| |
| Bruce in Alaska 2007-09-20, 5:25 pm |
| In article <06wIi.4803$3Y1.3336@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net>,
"Jim" <jim@home.con> wrote:
> "Bruce in Alaska" <bruceg@btpost.net> wrote in message
> news:bruceg-78B041.10464219092007@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
>
> So you do not believe it would be safe/useful to save the magnetron for
> future experimentation as it is the root cause?
> TIA, Jim
>
>
Not if it is a High Time Magnitron...... it is just JUNK at that
point... Maybe keep the Magnet...... for the GrandKids.....
Bruce in alaska
--
add a <2> before @
| |
| Neon John 2007-09-20, 5:25 pm |
| On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 10:26:23 -0500, "Jim" <jim@home.con> wrote:
> I thank you both for your help. The question is now academic as I have
>disassembled the unit completely, and irreparably. :-) The transformer
>seems to be the source of the heat. And it was heating up very fast, just a
>few seconds, and every time I tested it with the KAW it ran higher and
>higher, up to 2091 watts! Not being any of the electrical engineers in my
>family, I wasn't able to determine which cap was the voltage doubler, so I
>bought a new one at WalMart. (Scrounged some pretty cool stuff out of it,
>though.)
The doubler cap is the metal can thingie near the transformer that has the high
voltage wires hooked to it. Looks like a motor run capacitor, if you know what that
looks like. The transformer was getting hot because it was feeding a load it didn't
like, most likely. If you power it up out of the microwave (careful! The secondary
produces at least 1500 volts) it should draw little power and stay cool.
> Wanna guess how much it was, courtesy of our ridiculous foreign trade
>policies? $29.66.... Made by inscrutable little Chinese....
Amazing, isn't it? I have several of 'em. Thing is, they're nice microwaves.
Walmart has made me quit scrounging for used microwaves when I have a
microwave-related project in mind. I simply buy a new one.
John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Democracy is three wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for supper.
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"Neon John" <no@never.com> wrote
> The doubler cap is the metal can thingie
THAT little tiny thing???? I was looking for a massive tub.
near the transformer that has the high
> voltage wires hooked to it. Looks like a motor run capacitor, if you know
> what that
> looks like. The transformer was getting hot because it was feeding a load
> it didn't
> like, most likely. If you power it up out of the microwave (careful! The
> secondary
> produces at least 1500 volts) it should draw little power and stay cool.
What I really want to do is build my own Ionic Breeze knockoff. Since
moving to the country, I've discovered I'm allergic to ragweed and I need
something to get the stuff out of the air. But they are soooo expensive for
something that can be assembled fairly easily, I imagine.... I've saved all
the good stuff out of it.
>
>
> Amazing, isn't it? I have several of 'em. Thing is, they're nice
> microwaves.
> Walmart has made me quit scrounging for used microwaves when I have a
> microwave-related project in mind. I simply buy a new one.
>
> John
> --
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.neon-john.com
> http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
> Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
> Democracy is three wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for supper.
>
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