Alternative Power sources - Reboring EU2000i was: bypassing low oil warning EU2000i

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Reboring EU2000i was: bypassing low oil warning EU2000i

~~NoMad~~

2008-03-20, 5:25 pm

"Ulysses" <eatmyspam@spamola.com/> wrote in message
news:13r0snfdrr4d8c6@corp.supernews.com...
>
> Good, but on both of mine once that oil splasher broke the cylinder was
> ruined and a new cylinder is well over $300. Good luck. For my current
> purposes a $200 Chinese 2000 watt generator is better anyway. If you
> happen
> to find out if those cylinders can somehow be rebored AND you find an
> oversize piston and rings that will fit please let me know.
>

Look for a shop that re-bores motorcycles and small engines. Weisco makes
many generic pistons and the shop should be able to fit one to the genny.

NM

Ulysses

2008-03-28, 1:25 pm

"~~NoMad~~" <nomadjpegs@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:frufgh$2k5$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> "Ulysses" <eatmyspam@spamola.com/> wrote in message
> news:13r0snfdrr4d8c6@corp.supernews.com...
>
> Look for a shop that re-bores motorcycles and small engines. Weisco makes
> many generic pistons and the shop should be able to fit one to the genny.
>
> NM
>
>

Aha! A motorcycle shop! Why didn't I thinkof that?

Yea, I need somone with enough experience to "find" the right size piston.
I may not cannibalize eu2000 #2 after all.
>

Neon John

2008-03-28, 5:25 pm

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 07:25:01 -0800, "Ulysses" <eatmyspam@spamola.com/> wrote:

>Aha! A motorcycle shop! Why didn't I thinkof that?
>
>Yea, I need somone with enough experience to "find" the right size piston.
>I may not cannibalize eu2000 #2 after all.

I think that a bike shop will be a waste of time. Piston design is too complicated
to have very much chance of finding one off the shelf that will work satisfactorily.

I echo the advice to consult Wiesco. They specialize in custom motorcycle and other
small engine pistons. The cost will be a bit more (or maybe not) but you'll get
exactly what you need.

The factors involved in specifying a piston, among others.

Pin height (distance between crown and pin centerline)
Pin diameter
Ring height
Ring width (both parameters very important to prevent ring flutter/breakage at the
desired operating speed)
Ring type
Nominal diameter
Taper (a piston tapers from top to bottom
Barrelness (a piston is barrel-shaped, narrower over the pins than at the skirts.
Alloy - expansion rate
Crown shape (can majorly affect economy)

Taper and barrel are dependent on operating temperature, piston alloy, cast-in
expansion bands or not and velocity, among other things. The desired end result is a
cylinder of proper clearance at operating temperature. The parameters are different
for otherwise identical engines. Watercooled vs air cooled or fan cooled vs free air
cooled, as examples. These parameters are also dependent on whether the cylinder is
sleeved or chrome on aluminum or some other construct.

Wiesco has decades of experience in making pistons AND they have a huge database of
engines. They'll be able to nail what you need dead-on. They may ask you to ship
them your old piston to take measurements from.

The biggest problem I'm anticipating is finding someone who can bore the cylinder to
the required precision. The problem is the integral cylinder head. Precision boring
machines are designed to bore cylinders and not cups. They need clearance at the far
end for the mandrel to clear. As does the hone necessary to put the proper finish on
the cylinder for proper ring seating.

I suggest that you first try to find someone who can bore the cylinder before
spending time and effort on locating a piston. A machine shop with a very high
quality CNC lathe can probably do the basic boring but the surface finish is a
separate task.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Daddy, why doesn't this magnet pick up this floppy?

Ulysses

2008-03-29, 1:25 pm

"Neon John" <no@never.com> wrote in message
news:76kqu3h0rpc0kusj7o1a57evsvu6n5ufi7@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 07:25:01 -0800, "Ulysses" <eatmyspam@spamola.com/>
wrote:
>
>
piston.[color=darkred]
>
> I think that a bike shop will be a waste of time. Piston design is too
complicated
> to have very much chance of finding one off the shelf that will work
satisfactorily.
>
> I echo the advice to consult Wiesco. They specialize in custom motorcycle
and other
> small engine pistons. The cost will be a bit more (or maybe not) but
you'll get
> exactly what you need.
>
> The factors involved in specifying a piston, among others.
>
> Pin height (distance between crown and pin centerline)
> Pin diameter
> Ring height
> Ring width (both parameters very important to prevent ring
flutter/breakage at the
> desired operating speed)
> Ring type
> Nominal diameter
> Taper (a piston tapers from top to bottom
> Barrelness (a piston is barrel-shaped, narrower over the pins than at the
skirts.
> Alloy - expansion rate
> Crown shape (can majorly affect economy)
>
> Taper and barrel are dependent on operating temperature, piston alloy,
cast-in
> expansion bands or not and velocity, among other things. The desired end
result is a
> cylinder of proper clearance at operating temperature. The parameters are
different
> for otherwise identical engines. Watercooled vs air cooled or fan cooled
vs free air
> cooled, as examples. These parameters are also dependent on whether the
cylinder is
> sleeved or chrome on aluminum or some other construct.
>
> Wiesco has decades of experience in making pistons AND they have a huge
database of
> engines. They'll be able to nail what you need dead-on. They may ask you
to ship
> them your old piston to take measurements from.
>
> The biggest problem I'm anticipating is finding someone who can bore the
cylinder to
> the required precision. The problem is the integral cylinder head.
Precision boring
> machines are designed to bore cylinders and not cups. They need clearance
at the far
> end for the mandrel to clear. As does the hone necessary to put the
proper finish on
> the cylinder for proper ring seating.
>
> I suggest that you first try to find someone who can bore the cylinder
before
> spending time and effort on locating a piston. A machine shop with a very
high
> quality CNC lathe can probably do the basic boring but the surface finish
is a
> separate task.

There goes that Infinately Indexed Memory Bank brain of yours again! ;-)

Yes, that was my first question (way back when). I'm not even sure if the
cylinder CAN be rebored. So far I can't seem to find anyone in the nearest
town who can even turn brake drums. So far none of my attempts at finding a
good use for the eu2000 elements have been an overwhelming success. It
worked pretty well belt-driven with no eco-throttle but then it was having
some problems when I attached the servo carburator. Part of the problem may
have been the carburator but something else came up and it was taken apart.
The PMA almost works when rewired from Star to Delta as a source for my
OutBack MX60 charge controller but the voltage is a little to high so the
engine speed has to be turned down and then it loses current output. Now
I'm studying about high current voltage regulators. With a 4 HP engine it
would bog down too much so now I'm about to try it on a 10 HP engine. As a
wind generator it almost worked--it would light up a 12 volt tail light bulb
to about half brightness in 20 MPH wind. The only thing preventing me from
experimenting more with the wind generator is that it will have to be
visible from the road and I sure as hell don't want Code Enforcement back
here again.

A little OT but it has been established that we both make coffee ice cream.
My coffee ice cream is the best ice cream I've ever had but, since you seem
to know so much more about virtually everything than I do I suspect your
coffee ice cream is better than mine. Care to tell me how you make it?

>
> John
> --
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.neon-john.com
> http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
> Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
> Daddy, why doesn't this magnet pick up this floppy?
>

Neon John

2008-03-29, 5:25 pm

On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 07:28:14 -0800, "Ulysses" <eatmyspam@spamola.com/> wrote:

>There goes that Infinately Indexed Memory Bank brain of yours again! ;-)

<grinz> My first profession, and the one where my heart still lies, was as a
motorcycle race mechanic. Our shop started the careers of Ike Smith and Dale
Singleton, among others. Dale went on to win several championships before getting
killed in an airplane crash. One of the biggest mistakes of my life was turning down
an offer to join Suzuki on their formula team. Anyway...

>
>Yes, that was my first question (way back when). I'm not even sure if the
>cylinder CAN be rebored. So far I can't seem to find anyone in the nearest
>town who can even turn brake drums. So far none of my attempts at finding a
>good use for the eu2000 elements have been an overwhelming success. It
>worked pretty well belt-driven with no eco-throttle but then it was having
>some problems when I attached the servo carburator. Part of the problem may
>have been the carburator but something else came up and it was taken apart.

What was the problem with the eco-throttle? Probably something that could be worked
out.

>The PMA almost works when rewired from Star to Delta as a source for my
>OutBack MX60 charge controller but the voltage is a little to high so the
>engine speed has to be turned down and then it loses current output. Now
>I'm studying about high current voltage regulators. With a 4 HP engine it
>would bog down too much so now I'm about to try it on a 10 HP engine.

Instead of all that, why don't you rewind the stator to the voltage you want? In
this case it will be trivially easy since all you need to do is remove some turns
from each pole. I'd approach it as a cut'n'try operation. Concentrate on only one
pole. Remove some turns and see what voltage you get. Based on that calculate how
many turns to remove from each pole.

This will proportionally reduce the total power available but that doesn't seem to be
an issue in your case. If it is, simply count the turns as you remove them all and
rewind with larger wire. There are filling tables on the net that will show you what
gauge to use to completely fill the stator spaces.

The best engine efficiency generally occurs at the torque peak so that's where you'd
want to run the engine to use the least fuel. An industrial engine has a broad flat
torque peak so you have some speed latitude to play with.

>As a
>wind generator it almost worked--it would light up a 12 volt tail light bulb
>to about half brightness in 20 MPH wind. The only thing preventing me from
>experimenting more with the wind generator is that it will have to be
>visible from the road and I sure as hell don't want Code Enforcement back
>here again.

You have to deal with code nazis? Arrrrghhhhh!!!! Of course, what you could do is
put up an amateur radio tower and just happen to hang a wind turbine off the side.
Ham towers are more or less FCC protected against code nazis so that's the way you
could get something in the air.

>
>A little OT but it has been established that we both make coffee ice cream.
>My coffee ice cream is the best ice cream I've ever had but, since you seem
>to know so much more about virtually everything than I do I suspect your
>coffee ice cream is better than mine. Care to tell me how you make it?

I started out making coffee in a French press using boiling milk instead of water.
Superb taste but a lot of work. I experimented around and discovered that I could
heat the milk for the recipe, add instant coffee (I use Folgers but I don't think it
matters that much) and make the ice cream from that.

I have one of those Cuisanart refrigerated table-top ice cream freezers that makes
about a half gallon. My recipe is this:

1 cup half and half or heavy whipping cream
1 cup whole milk
1 cup Splenda (I'm diabetic) or sugar
1 TBL instant coffee
1 ea large or jumbo egg
1 TBL vanilla extract
1 pinch salt

If you want to increase the butter fat (improves mouth feel), you can add a little
butter, maybe a tsp. Heavy whipping cream usually has enough butter fat but half and
half usually doesn't.

Mix the milk and half and half and heat to about 180 deg., just below the skinning
point. If you're phobic about raw eggs, mix it in while beating strongly to prevent
clumping. I'm not, so I put the egg in after the mix cools. Add the instant coffee
and cool. I sit the pan in the sink and run cold water around it. Add the egg and
the other ingredients.

This is the most important part for creamy smooth ice cream. Whip strongly (I use a
Baymix stick mixer but a hand mixer or milkshake mixer works equally well) until
there is 10-15% overrun. That is, the volume of the mix increases by that much.
"Overrun" is the industry term for incorporating air into the mix. It makes the ice
cream creamy both by making it lighter and by making it harder for large ice crystals
to form around the little bubbles.

The colder the mix while whipping, the better. I put the mix in the ice cream
freezer and turn on the compressor. When the slightest crust of ice starts forming
around the outside, I turn the compressor off and whip. Then the agitator goes in
and the compressor is turned back on.

The mixing must be extremely vigorous. If it isn't, the effect will be to churn the
cream and large hunks of butter will result. If I didn't have the Bamix, I'd use my
old Hamilton Beach milkshake mixer.

I've tried my best but I can't taste any difference between brewing coffee using milk
and using instant coffee. If you try the French press route, either don't heat the
milk to the point where it skins or else completely remove the skin. If you don't,
the skin will glue coffee grounds to the press's screen and it won't work. learned
that one the hard way.

I used to offer free dessert nights in my restaurant. Coffee ice cream was by far
the favorite. I used to make that stuff in 5 gallon batches. Using instant coffee
removed a LOT of work from the effort.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources -Albert Einstein

Ulysses

2008-04-01, 1:25 pm

"Neon John" <no@never.com> wrote in message
news:fr3tu3prip4gnrn4qa0779jrnps0aperl3@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 07:28:14 -0800, "Ulysses" <eatmyspam@spamola.com/>
wrote:
>
>
>
> <grinz> My first profession, and the one where my heart still lies, was
as a
> motorcycle race mechanic. Our shop started the careers of Ike Smith and
Dale
> Singleton, among others. Dale went on to win several championships before
getting
> killed in an airplane crash. One of the biggest mistakes of my life was
turning down
> an offer to join Suzuki on their formula team. Anyway...
>

The full extent of my experience as a motorcycle mechanic was to replace a
piston and a valve on my $50 Honda 90 (it had been ran over by a truck so my
dad got it and I made a dirt bike out of it). Maybe it didn't as much
torque as the 2-strokers but I was *riding* my Honda while everyone else was
futzing with their bikes :-D

One of the biggest mistakes I *didn't* make was continuing with my dirt-bike
riding because I was doing that Evil Knievel stuff and I'd probably would
have been dead a long time ago.

the[color=darkred]
nearest[color=darkred]
finding a[color=darkred]
having[color=darkred]
may[color=darkred]
apart.[color=darkred]
>
> What was the problem with the eco-throttle? Probably something that could
be worked
> out.

I'm not quite sure. I suspect that the inverter unit, which also acts as
the spark activator, is reducing the timing when the engine is running
slower. There is a "bump" on the flywheel/alternator rotor that passes a
sensor that tells the inverter unit when to spark (at least that's what it
appears to be). The igniton module is simply mounted in a convenient place
on the generator. It looks like it would be possible to use the sensor and
original ignition module on another engine but it was gonna take some doing
and probably something else came up and I took it all apart and made
something else out of it that suited my needs for that particular day. It
could also be that, after about 12,000 hours on the eco-throttle carb, it
simply needed to be rebuilt. The symptoms where that it would not hold a
steady throttle postition at low engine speed--the little servo gizmo kept
moving and it did not seem possible to adjust it. Also the air mixture
screw seemed to have no effect.

>
it[color=darkred]
>
> Instead of all that, why don't you rewind the stator to the voltage you
want? In
> this case it will be trivially easy since all you need to do is remove
some turns
> from each pole. I'd approach it as a cut'n'try operation. Concentrate on
only one
> pole. Remove some turns and see what voltage you get. Based on that
calculate how
> many turns to remove from each pole.

I'm getting to the point now that I think I could tackle that. The 10 HP
engine method did what I hoped but it's a crappy old Tecumseh engine that
runs like crap at low RPM BUT it was charging my batteries via my OutBack
charge controller at a little over 1000 watts with the engine running as
slow as I could get it to go. Maybe not a very sophisticated way of doing
it but within my limited abilites. A smaller pulley on the engine would
help too. Also, as a safety feature, the charge controller can activate a
relay or whatever to divert the input if it should exceed the maximum
allowed voltage.

>
> This will proportionally reduce the total power available but that doesn't
seem to be
> an issue in your case. If it is, simply count the turns as you remove
them all and
> rewind with larger wire. There are filling tables on the net that will
show you what
> gauge to use to completely fill the stator spaces.

My reducing the voltage I'm thinking I might actually get more power because
I would be able to run the engine at a more efficient speed (like what you
just said).

>
> The best engine efficiency generally occurs at the torque peak so that's
where you'd
> want to run the engine to use the least fuel. An industrial engine has a
broad flat
> torque peak so you have some speed latitude to play with.

From what I remember (whatever that is worth) small gasoline engines are
most efficient at around 3/4 of their rated speed. I'm trying to find the
"sweet spot" on my 4 HP charger and it's running a little faster than I
would like but still a big improvement over how I was charging my batteries.
My particular GC135 has some problems and I have to add oil after every few
hours of use and the carburator is a bit touchy and the floats seem to get
stuck and the cylinder fills up with gasoline when the engine is off so I
have use a fuel shut-off valve and pull the rope after it stops in an
attempt to close the valves. I just took apart the carburator (again) and I
think I may have actually solved the problem this time.

>
bulb[color=darkred]
from[color=darkred]
>
> You have to deal with code nazis? Arrrrghhhhh!!!! Of course, what you
could do is
> put up an amateur radio tower and just happen to hang a wind turbine off
the side.
> Ham towers are more or less FCC protected against code nazis so that's the
way you
> could get something in the air.
>

My first try with the eu2000 alternator was simply attaching a 30" fan blade
from a whole-house fan. I got up to 30 volts but no amperage that I could
measure. So then I made a seven foot diameter blade. I got less voltage
but I expected to get more overall power. OK, so it wasn't the greatest set
of blades but I think I made them well enough to to at least get an idea if
it would be worth the trouble to made some really fine blades. Right now I
have one of those "Farm Windill" lawn decorations highly viisble from the
road and nobody called CE on that yet (some of the busy-bodies around here
need more to do). Now I'm thinking that if I can find a decent spot on my
West slope I could at least get a little power from the afternoon onshore
flow and storms etc and if I make it look like a lawn decoration and paint
it Camo I might get away with it. I could maybe run some stuff in my garage
using a 12 volt bank and inverter. I have a pretty good spot on top of my
hill where probably only one neighbor would see it (and he probably wouldn't
care anyway) but I would have to run about 500 feet of wire so it probably
would not be worth the effort if I can only get 50 or 60 watts from the
thing. One thing is certain: I will eventually get some kind of wind
generator producing something because I can't seem to stop myself.

cream.[color=darkred]
seem[color=darkred]
>
> I started out making coffee in a French press using boiling milk instead
of water.
> Superb taste but a lot of work. I experimented around and discovered that
I could
> heat the milk for the recipe, add instant coffee (I use Folgers but I
don't think it
> matters that much) and make the ice cream from that.
>
> I have one of those Cuisanart refrigerated table-top ice cream freezers
that makes
> about a half gallon. My recipe is this:
>
> 1 cup half and half or heavy whipping cream
> 1 cup whole milk
> 1 cup Splenda (I'm diabetic) or sugar
> 1 TBL instant coffee
> 1 ea large or jumbo egg
> 1 TBL vanilla extract
> 1 pinch salt
>
> If you want to increase the butter fat (improves mouth feel), you can add
a little
> butter, maybe a tsp. Heavy whipping cream usually has enough butter fat
but half and
> half usually doesn't.
>
> Mix the milk and half and half and heat to about 180 deg., just below the
skinning
> point. If you're phobic about raw eggs, mix it in while beating strongly
to prevent
> clumping. I'm not, so I put the egg in after the mix cools. Add the
instant coffee
> and cool. I sit the pan in the sink and run cold water around it. Add
the egg and
> the other ingredients.
>
> This is the most important part for creamy smooth ice cream. Whip
strongly (I use a
> Baymix stick mixer but a hand mixer or milkshake mixer works equally well)
until
> there is 10-15% overrun. That is, the volume of the mix increases by that
much.
> "Overrun" is the industry term for incorporating air into the mix. It
makes the ice
> cream creamy both by making it lighter and by making it harder for large
ice crystals
> to form around the little bubbles.
>
> The colder the mix while whipping, the better. I put the mix in the ice
cream
> freezer and turn on the compressor. When the slightest crust of ice
starts forming
> around the outside, I turn the compressor off and whip. Then the agitator
goes in
> and the compressor is turned back on.
>
> The mixing must be extremely vigorous. If it isn't, the effect will be to
churn the
> cream and large hunks of butter will result. If I didn't have the Bamix,
I'd use my
> old Hamilton Beach milkshake mixer.
>
> I've tried my best but I can't taste any difference between brewing coffee
using milk
> and using instant coffee. If you try the French press route, either don't
heat the
> milk to the point where it skins or else completely remove the skin. If
you don't,
> the skin will glue coffee grounds to the press's screen and it won't work.
learned
> that one the hard way.

Other than the egg (yes, I'm phobic--had to get pumped full of Benedryl or
something once) my ingredients are essentially the same. The big difference
is that I have not been whipping the cream. Gotta try that! I toyed with
the idea of making fresh coffee with milk but, like you said, the instant
coffee tastes great so I just stuck with it. Instant coffee makes
damned-good frosting for cakes too. Thanks.

I looked at the ice cream maker like the one you are using but since I'm
off-grid I stayed with making ice cubes and using my regular ice cream
freezer. It only uses something like 30 watts.

>
> I used to offer free dessert nights in my restaurant. Coffee ice cream
was by far
> the favorite. I used to make that stuff in 5 gallon batches. Using
instant coffee
> removed a LOT of work from the effort.
>

Free Dessert! Give 'em something for free and they feel obligated to buy
something ;-)

> John
> --
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.neon-john.com
> http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
> Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
> The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources -Albert
Einstein
>

LinkBot