Alternative Power sources - Feedback on batteries.

Author

Feedback on batteries.

gomango

2008-03-28, 1:25 pm

I recently found a source for batteries that is pretty wallet
friendly. There is a warehouse down here that uses Raymond fork
lifts, and the battery banks get thrown out when there is a single bad
cell. These cells can be purchased individually and replaced, or
eliminated totally by pulling a cell on the other series set. The
current wiring configuration is a 36 volt setup. I'm not sure what
the individual cell voltage is.

My question...

These are high amp output batteries that are designed to run motors.
They are also designed to be a high cycle count battery. Is this type
of battery a good candidate for off grid hydro and solar storage? I'm
looking at a cost of around $25 each complete battery pack. Disposal
cost is about $50 for this large of a battery here, and some recycle
centers will take them for core credit if I break the individual cells
out of the packaged case. Transportation costs to the warehouse are
going to be about $100. In the end I'm looking at a total replacement
cost of about $175 each plus the cost of replacing the bad cell if I
go that route.

I'm worried about dragging home a battery and designing a charging
system for a battery that wouldn't be worth the effort. I of coarse
will do nothing until I get more specs on the batteries.

Any advice would be great.

Bruce in alaska

2008-03-28, 5:25 pm

In article
<600770f2-ce8d-4b68-9a6e-4bf5df02e975@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
gomango <gomangodave@gmail.com> wrote:

> I recently found a source for batteries that is pretty wallet
> friendly. There is a warehouse down here that uses Raymond fork
> lifts, and the battery banks get thrown out when there is a single bad
> cell. These cells can be purchased individually and replaced, or
> eliminated totally by pulling a cell on the other series set. The
> current wiring configuration is a 36 volt setup. I'm not sure what
> the individual cell voltage is.
>
> My question...
>
> These are high amp output batteries that are designed to run motors.
> They are also designed to be a high cycle count battery. Is this type
> of battery a good candidate for off grid hydro and solar storage? I'm
> looking at a cost of around $25 each complete battery pack. Disposal
> cost is about $50 for this large of a battery here, and some recycle
> centers will take them for core credit if I break the individual cells
> out of the packaged case. Transportation costs to the warehouse are
> going to be about $100. In the end I'm looking at a total replacement
> cost of about $175 each plus the cost of replacing the bad cell if I
> go that route.
>
> I'm worried about dragging home a battery and designing a charging
> system for a battery that wouldn't be worth the effort. I of coarse
> will do nothing until I get more specs on the batteries.
>
> Any advice would be great.

I am in the design stage now, of converting my Cabin L16 24 Vdc 800
Amphour Bank to a 1200 Amphour Forlkift system. I suspect the costs
will be similar in that your really just buying the processed Lead,
by weight. I can tell you from the research I have already done, that
$175US for a Bank at 24 Vdc 1000 Amphour, should make ANYONE VERY
Happy. You would still be dealing with an OLD set of cells, but at
those prices, even if you have to take 2 Banks to build one good
Bank, you would come out smiling....

--
Bruce in alaska
add <path> after <fast> to reply

Neon John

2008-03-28, 5:25 pm

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:17:38 -0700 (PDT), gomango <gomangodave@gmail.com> wrote:

>These are high amp output batteries that are designed to run motors.
>They are also designed to be a high cycle count battery. Is this type
>of battery a good candidate for off grid hydro and solar storage? I'm
>looking at a cost of around $25 each complete battery pack. Disposal
>cost is about $50 for this large of a battery here, and some recycle
>centers will take them for core credit if I break the individual cells
>out of the packaged case. Transportation costs to the warehouse are
>going to be about $100. In the end I'm looking at a total replacement
>cost of about $175 each plus the cost of replacing the bad cell if I
>go that route.

Absolutely excellent batteries for the application. Especially at that price.

Re: disposal cost. You should be getting paid for the batteries instead of the other
way around, given the current high price of lead. The going rate here is between $5
and $10 a battery, depending on the buyer. I recently sold a stash of old batteries
that I'd been dreading hauling off so this is recent first-hand experience. I got
$10 each for mine.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Daddy, why doesn't this magnet pick up this floppy?

Vaughn Simon

2008-03-28, 5:25 pm

"gomango" <gomangodave@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:600770f2-ce8d-4b68-9a6e-4bf5df02e975@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Disposal
> cost is about $50 for this large of a battery here, and some recycle
> centers will take them for core credit if I break the individual cells
> out of the packaged case.

OK that confuses me. Usually, old lead acid batteries actually have intrinsic
value because of their lead content. This is even more true since worldwide
demand has driven up the cost of so many basic commodities such as metals. As
such, you should never need to pay a "disposal charge" for a lead acid battery,
even though some will try to charge it.

On my job, I need to dispose of a few batteries occasionally. In practice,
my local battery shop is delighted to accept all that I bring them for free. If
I twisted their arm, they would probably pay me a portion of what they sell them
for on the scrap market. When I pay the UPS folks to change out a string of
batteries for me, they never try to leave the old batteries, but seem delighted
to cart them away.

Vaughn

Eric Sears

2008-03-28, 5:25 pm

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:17:38 -0700 (PDT), gomango
<gomangodave@gmail.com> wrote:

>My question...
>
>These are high amp output batteries that are designed to run motors.
>They are also designed to be a high cycle count battery. Is this type
>of battery a good candidate for off grid hydro and solar storage? I'm
>looking at a cost of around $25 each complete battery pack. Disposal
>cost is about $50 for this large of a battery here, and some recycle
>centers will take them for core credit if I break the individual cells
>out of the packaged case. Transportation costs to the warehouse are
>going to be about $100. In the end I'm looking at a total replacement
>cost of about $175 each plus the cost of replacing the bad cell if I
>go that route.
>
>I'm worried about dragging home a battery and designing a charging
>system for a battery that wouldn't be worth the effort. I of coarse
>will do nothing until I get more specs on the batteries.
>
>Any advice would be great.
I was given just such a set of batteries (all cut into individual
cells) about 5 months ago. They are now teamed with my solar panels
and mx-60 in a 12v system - and have done a marvellous job over that
time running part of my house (fridge.freezer, lights etc). Even with
two or three days of cloud - with only a little input, the battery
voltage holds up well - rarely dropping much below 12.5 v.
I've got my name in for another set when they become available

Eric Sears. (in NZ)

bealiba@gmail.com

2008-03-28, 8:25 pm

Okay, look at the other side of the coin.

On Mar 29, 2:17 am, gomango <gomangod...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I recently found a source for batteries that is pretty wallet
> friendly. There is a warehouse down here that uses Raymond fork
> lifts, and the battery banks get thrown out when there is a single bad
> cell. These cells can be purchased individually and replaced, or
> eliminated totally by pulling a cell on the other series set. The
> current wiring configuration is a 36 volt setup. I'm not sure what
> the individual cell voltage is.

The batteries are replaced when they no longer perform to spec. The
battery has failed.
>
> My question...
>
> These are high amp output batteries that are designed to run motors.
> They are also designed to be a high cycle count battery. Is this type
> of battery a good candidate for off grid hydro and solar storage? I'm
> looking at a cost of around $25 each complete battery pack. Disposal
> cost is about $50 for this large of a battery here, and some recycle
> centers will take them for core credit if I break the individual cells
> out of the packaged case. Transportation costs to the warehouse are
> going to be about $100. In the end I'm looking at a total replacement
> cost of about $175 each plus the cost of replacing the bad cell if I
> go that route.

High cycle! Fine. How old are the batteries, keeping in mind forklift
batteries area 1 day use = one cycle. A three year old battery could
have already been cycled 900+ times and only have only a few cycles
left in them. Also keeping in mind that a cycle for this type of
battery is usually quite a deep discharge which reduces the number of
cycles for the life of the battery
>
> I'm worried about dragging home a battery and designing a charging
> system for a battery that wouldn't be worth the effort. I of coarse
> will do nothing until I get more specs on the batteries.

You should be worried
>
> Any advice would be great.

Take your multimeter with you, ask when each pack was taken out of
service, measure the voltage. A battery taken out of service will not
have been recharged. The residual voltage should give some indication
of the cells condition. Pick the best out of those available, paying
attention to dates(age).

Swap out the cells that need replacing. Keep your fingers crossed and
you could get several years of use.

Whata Fool

2008-03-30, 3:25 am

gomango <gomangodave@gmail.com> wrote:

>I recently found a source for batteries that is pretty wallet
>friendly. There is a warehouse down here that uses Raymond fork
>lifts, and the battery banks get thrown out when there is a single bad
>cell. These cells can be purchased individually and replaced, or
>eliminated totally by pulling a cell on the other series set. The
>current wiring configuration is a 36 volt setup. I'm not sure what
>the individual cell voltage is.
>
>My question...
>
>These are high amp output batteries that are designed to run motors.
>They are also designed to be a high cycle count battery. Is this type
>of battery a good candidate for off grid hydro and solar storage? I'm
>looking at a cost of around $25 each complete battery pack. Disposal
>cost is about $50 for this large of a battery here, and some recycle
>centers will take them for core credit if I break the individual cells
>out of the packaged case.

What do you mean "disposal costs", are they lead-acid
batteries? Scrap dealers here are paying $7 for regular
scrap car batteries, and some places charge $10 core charge
because of the lead value, not a disposal problem.

> Transportation costs to the warehouse are
>going to be about $100. In the end I'm looking at a total replacement
>cost of about $175 each plus the cost of replacing the bad cell if I
>go that route.
>
>I'm worried about dragging home a battery and designing a charging
>system for a battery that wouldn't be worth the effort. I of coarse
>will do nothing until I get more specs on the batteries.
>
>Any advice would be great.

Yes, get more information on the batteries,
if the individual cells can be replaced or bypassed,
then it sounds like a bargain if a number of batteries
are available, the bad cells can be switched.

Lead-acid are 2.2 volts per cell, I think
Ni-Cad may be 1.7 volts per cell, the number of
cells per battery should tell what kind they are
if the voltage is known.

It is only a good deal if cells can be switched
out between batteries, or bypassed and more than one
battery connected in series to get the desired voltage.

gomango

2008-03-31, 1:25 pm

Disposal costs are high here. ie... 1.5 hour drive to anywhere from
my house. The dump is what charges. The battery stores do offer a
few bucks for them here, but not enough for me to drive the extra few
miles to get rid of them.

On Mar 29, 9:50=A0pm, Whata Fool <wh...@fool.ami> wrote:
> gomango <gomangod...@gmail.com> =A0wrote:
>
>
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 What do you mean "disposal costs", are they lead-acid
> batteries? =A0 =A0Scrap dealers here are paying $7 for regular
> scrap car batteries, and some places charge $10 core charge
> because of the lead value, not a disposal problem.
>
>
>
>
> =A0 =A0 Yes, get more information on the batteries,
> if the individual cells can be replaced or bypassed,
> then it sounds like a bargain if a number of batteries
> are available, the bad cells can be switched.
>
> =A0 =A0 Lead-acid are 2.2 volts per cell, I think
> Ni-Cad may be 1.7 volts per cell, the number of
> cells per battery should tell what kind they are
> if the voltage is known.
>
> =A0 =A0 It is only a good deal if cells can be switched
> out between batteries, or bypassed and more than one
> battery connected in series to get the desired voltage.- Hide quoted text =
-
>
> - Show quoted text -

2008-04-01, 3:25 am

gomango <gomangodave@gmail.com> wrote in
news:bb70ccbe-0259-433e-be51-8cf4b41088dd@q27g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

> Disposal costs are high here. ie... 1.5 hour drive to anywhere from
> my house. The dump is what charges. The battery stores do offer a
> few bucks for them here, but not enough for me to drive the extra few
> miles to get rid of them.

Yeah the battery guy used to give us 5-10 bucks a core, but now he just
takes them for free -- Fuel prices being what they are they break even on
them now.

But its still better than driving the 100 miles round trip to get the 10
bucks.

Now the scrap guy still pays BIG for catalytic converters -- i'm surprised
more people don't come out from buying groceries to find theirs missing.

Neon John

2008-04-01, 3:25 am

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:49:00 -0600, z <z@yada.yada.com> wrote:

>Now the scrap guy still pays BIG for catalytic converters -- i'm surprised
>more people don't come out from buying groceries to find theirs missing.

In the local weekly paper is a story about some guys doing just that. They hit a
dealer lot in Madisonville,TN and stole every single converter. Over 200. And
nobody saw anything.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
What do you call 4 Blondes in an Abrams? Air Tank.

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